First reloading session. Never finished the first session. Rang a mate.. "you got a digital scale ?? Can i borrow it ? Oh.. 6pak of beer you say ? Ok deal".
Almost exactly how that conversation went.
Almost exactly how that conversation went.
Used them in college and used one at a buddy’s house right when I got into reloading. If a quality digital is available and within the same general budget, it’s a mistake to suggest a beginner get a beam scale.How long did you use a beam scale before you decided to buy a digital scale ?
Can you get a "Quality" digital scale for less than 100 bucks ? Lets be real here . I would trust a calibrated beam scale over a drifting 100 dollar scale any day .Used them in college and used one at a buddy’s house right when I got into reloading. If a quality digital is available and within the same general budget, it’s a mistake to suggest a beginner get a beam scale.
Best of the best. That said, this one will do just as just fine, and you can attach a drill to it if you want to:I have a birthday discount at Midway and was considering purchasing this item instead of a powered case trimmer. Has anybody used this?
L.E. Wilson Micrometer Case Trimmer Kit SS Titanium Nitride Coated
The L.E. Wilson Stainless Steel Case Trimmer with micrometer is unique in that it supports the case body through the trimming operation using holders...www.midwayusa.com
Just get this to attach a drill so you dont immediately hate yourself after the first batchI have a birthday discount at Midway and was considering purchasing this item instead of a powered case trimmer. Has anybody used this?
L.E. Wilson Micrometer Case Trimmer Kit SS Titanium Nitride Coated
The L.E. Wilson Stainless Steel Case Trimmer with micrometer is unique in that it supports the case body through the trimming operation using holders...www.midwayusa.com
Description reads that only Hornady shellholders will work. I'm sure not all shellholders are same quality, since nothing in this industry seems to be the same quality across the board, so do Hornady shellholders have a decent reputation? It's half the price of the Wilson trimmer (after purchasing the Wilson accessories to hold the shells).Best of the best. That said, this one will do just as just fine, and you can attach a drill to it if you want to:
Hornady Cam-Lock Case Trimmer Kit
The Hornady Cam-Lock Case Trimmer features a micro-adjustable cutter that allows for change in length in increments of 1/1000" without moving the...www.midwayusa.com
Before I bought the Giraud, this is what I used. I bought a second one to use with their inside chamfer tool, then chucked an outside debur tool in a small drill. Case went in the holder, tap, into the first one, trim, into the second one, chamfer, hit it with the drill to debur, (I also hit the primer pocket with a cleaner while it was in the case holder before I started SS media tumbling), then tap the case out. I had mine screwed to my bench with socket head screws and t-nuts on the underside of my bench so I could take them off easily when I needed space for something else. My only regret with the Giraud is that I didn't buy it sooner.I have a birthday discount at Midway and was considering purchasing this item instead of a powered case trimmer. Has anybody used this?
L.E. Wilson Micrometer Case Trimmer Kit SS Titanium Nitride Coated
The L.E. Wilson Stainless Steel Case Trimmer with micrometer is unique in that it supports the case body through the trimming operation using holders...www.midwayusa.com
Are you referring to the Tri-Way or their Power Trimmer?Before I bought the Giraud, this is what I used. I bought a second one to use with their inside chamfer tool, then chucked an outside debur tool in a small drill. Case went in the holder, tap, into the first one, trim, into the second one, chamfer, hit it with the drill to debur, (I also hit the primer pocket with a cleaner while it was in the case holder before I started SS media tumbling), then tap the case out. I had mine screwed to my bench with socket head screws and t-nuts on the underside of my bench so I could take them off easily when I needed space for something else. My only regret with the Giraud is that I didn't buy it sooner.
I went for far too long using beam scales.First reloading session. Never finished the first session. Rang a mate.. "you got a digital scale ?? Can i borrow it ? Oh.. 6pak of beer you say ? Ok deal".
Almost exactly how that conversation went.
The power trimmer. I have no experience with the tri-way.Are you referring to the Tri-Way or their Power Trimmer?
Id absolutely rather have a chargemaster than a dang beam scale. That is just insaine. Doping with a manual then trickling up will work just fine but doing it on a beam scale is just ridiculous this day ans age. You can get the creedmore scale which is pretty dang good just not quite as fast as my AD120 and then you'd have a scale to use with an IP set up if you ever wanted to upgrade later (you will). Horrible advice to get a beam scale these days, there's just no reason toYeah its cool and its accurate... but its back to taking a bunch of time while you sit there and stare at it waiting for it to settle, then you trickle your kernel and wait, then trickle a kernel and wait, then trickle a kernal and wait, oops, to much, pull a kernal out and wait. Slow as hell and boring as fuck.
Get a beam if you are doomsday prepping, get a chargemaster if you want to have fun reloading or do more than 50 rounds a month.
Don't get the Redding shellholders if you go with the coax, they are incompatible.Going through your list... few comments
Hornady's bullet puller is better than the RCBS
You don't really need a $50 media separator
You list the Giraud Tri-Way as a 6.5... Do then make one that works with 6.5 CM?
Hornady One Shot is just ok, but lanolin/alcohol is better & cheaper
I'd consider a set of Redding Competition Shellholders for use when FL sizing
And here we go again <G>...
The OP does NOT need that accuracy - PAY ATTENTION..
Do you even know how much difference .1 grain makes in actual vertical accuracy? Do the math and report back (I already calculated that).
How much difference does .1 grain make in actual vertical accuracy? I do not even know what math to do.This is a great way to start; however, trickling every round gets tiresome fast, and you/we can only be as good as the quality of our scales, so it can be hard to experience the upside to all that pain without a scale that's up to the task (something with +/- 0.02gn resolution).
With any run-of-the-mill scale that has a typical +/- 0.1gn resolution, ball powder is a lot less painful to deal with, and after some practice, it's not too hard to hit one's target weight dead-on to a tenth of a grain just about every time, no trickling necessary. Of course, one can trickle ball powders too if they like... the stuff flows like water and is easy to control, far less anguish than trickling stick powder.
Now that there is stuff like Sta-Ball out there, I almost believe dropping and then manually trickling extruded stick powder is a form of self-torture that one shouldn't even bother with lol.
If you're set on using stick powders and can live with +/- 0.1gn resolution, as has been mentioned, just get a Chargemaster or Chargemaster-alike (whatever is cheapest, they're all about the same).
FGMM and Hornady was +\- .2gr, Black Hills was +\-.4gr and it was with ball powder. POS.
Same point of aim, when it hit 64 the bullet went to center of the target, 64.1 and 64.2 followed with a 0 vertical and about an inch total spread horizontal. 64.3 went wild 2" and at 64.4 it went high left and started to rotate clockwise. I now load 64.1 because if I'm a couple kernels off either way it makes no difference. If I was loading 64.2 and got a tenth over it would absolutely screw up a group. Would I miss a deer? No. As far as factory ammo, years ago I loaded hunting rounds for a bud of mine. (non-shooter) When he got to camp he had about 3 boxes of factory ammo, I asked why. His reply was that it was PREMIUM ammo and he knew every shot would be exactly the same. I told him that I would bet him that 3 of those rounds weren't within 50 fps of each other. Set up the chrono and I was wrong, they weren't within 75 fps. On a challenge I ran 3 of mine thru, 2 were exactly the same and 1 was 1 fps off. Worked brass and weighed charges win every time
I think my old Gempro 250 was about $100. I used it for years before I upgraded to the FX120.Can you get a "Quality" digital scale for less than 100 bucks ? Lets be real here . I would trust a calibrated beam scale over a drifting 100 dollar scale any day .
How much difference does .1 grain make in actual vertical accuracy? I do not even know what math to do.
No idea what his budget is . My point is you can get a beam scale for 100 dollars that you can trust . You can't do that with a 100 dollar chinese digital scale .I think my old Gempro 250 was about $100. I used it for years before I upgraded to the FX120.
Was $100 the OP’s budget?
No idea what his budget is . My point is you can get a beam scale for 100 dollars that you can trust . You can't do that with a 100 dollar chinese digital scale .
I don't have a set budget for any single tool. It seems like most of this stuff holds its value fairly well if I need to resell something later. But I certainly do not want to spend $600 on a scale.I think my old Gempro 250 was about $100. I used it for years before I upgraded to the FX120.
Was $100 the OP’s budget?
I had a Gempro long ago. It seemed ok at first, but I noticed that whenever I'd add a few kernels of powder, it did not register on the scale. I had to lift the pan a little and let it resettle to get an accurate measurement. It also drifted quite a bit to where I had to re-zero every 5 or 10 rounds. I became so untrusting that I would save my first powder charge and compare it to my last, and they would often be different, not by a whole lot, but it would give me doubts about every charge. I finally bought a Sartorious (the gold standard back then). I don't remember what I paid, but it was a lot more than $600. And worth every penny. I still use it, it works flawlessly, and I never have to second-guess if it's correct. Just my opinion, the A&D FX-120i would be money well-spent. It's a quality tool that will serve you very well, and if you get into making higher volume at some point, you can add an autotrickler later.I don't have a set budget for any single tool. It seems like most of this stuff holds its value fairly well if I need to resell something later. But I certainly do not want to spend $600 on a scale.
Watch this old guy like me throw ten charges, up trickling - timed .I don't have a set budget for any single tool. It seems like most of this stuff holds its value fairly well if I need to resell something later. But I certainly do not want to spend $600 on a scale.
EDIT - What do I want out of this? Satisfaction of knowledge from a new skill, satisfaction from proving to myself I'm capable of new things, satisfaction from the self-sufficiency aspect of reloading, and better groups than factory ammo. I'm not trying to win anything.
I had similar experience with my GemPro 250. It's accurate enough, but it just took some time to figure out a technique for dealing with the drift, part of which is to pull the pan off and set it back onto the scale before measuring a load. Eventually, I went with the FX-120i and it has no such issues.I had a Gempro long ago. It seemed ok at first, but I noticed that whenever I'd add a few kernels of powder, it did not register on the scale. I had to lift the pan a little and let it resettle to get an accurate measurement. It also drifted quite a bit to where I had to re-zero every 5 or 10 rounds. I became so untrusting that I would save my first powder charge and compare it to my last, and they would often be different, not by a whole lot, but it would give me doubts about every charge. I finally bought a Sartorious (the gold standard back then). I don't remember what I paid, but it was a lot more than $600. And worth every penny. I still use it, it works flawlessly, and I never have to second-guess if it's correct. Just my opinion, the A&D FX-120i would be money well-spent. It's a quality tool that will serve you very well, and if you get into making higher volume at some point, you can add an autotrickler later.
When I think of all the money I spent on tools I thought were good enough at the time, I realize I probably would have just wasted it on hookers and blow anyway.
I understand. As I stated before in the thread, cars come first so that's where any "extra" money would end up. Just lost $58 worth of race gas in the racecar yesterday due to a fuel leak I didn't know was there. Small price to pay, but it adds up.I had a Gempro long ago. It seemed ok at first, but I noticed that whenever I'd add a few kernels of powder, it did not register on the scale. I had to lift the pan a little and let it resettle to get an accurate measurement. It also drifted quite a bit to where I had to re-zero every 5 or 10 rounds. I became so untrusting that I would save my first powder charge and compare it to my last, and they would often be different, not by a whole lot, but it would give me doubts about every charge. I finally bought a Sartorious (the gold standard back then). I don't remember what I paid, but it was a lot more than $600. And worth every penny. I still use it, it works flawlessly, and I never have to second-guess if it's correct. Just my opinion, the A&D FX-120i would be money well-spent. It's a quality tool that will serve you very well, and if you get into making higher volume at some point, you can add an autotrickler later.
When I think of all the money I spent on tools I thought were good enough at the time, I realize I probably would have just wasted it on hookers and blow anyway.
This is definitely an interesting little thought experiment. Thank you.I’ll put it to you a little differently…
Give every experienced reloader on this site a complete reloading setup for a single stage press containing only the most basic, entry level tools and components & allow them to upgrade just one tool.
Assuming no defects, they’re not going to upgrade from the Rockchucker, the Auto Prime, the Cabelas tumbler, or even the dies… 90% will upgrade the entry level scale to a quality powder dispenser.