First reloading session. Never finished the first session. Rang a mate.. "you got a digital scale ?? Can i borrow it ? Oh.. 6pak of beer you say ? Ok deal".
Almost exactly how that conversation went.
Almost exactly how that conversation went.
- Thread starter McJerkins
- Start date
Used them in college and used one at a buddy’s house right when I got into reloading. If a quality digital is available and within the same general budget, it’s a mistake to suggest a beginner get a beam scale.
Can you get a "Quality" digital scale for less than 100 bucks ? Lets be real here . I would trust a calibrated beam scale over a drifting 100 dollar scale any day .
I have a birthday discount at Midway and was considering purchasing this item instead of a powered case trimmer. Has anybody used this?
www.midwayusa.com
L.E. Wilson Micrometer Case Trimmer Kit SS Titanium Nitride Coated
The L.E. Wilson Stainless Steel Case Trimmer with micrometer is unique in that it supports the case body through the trimming operation using holders...
www.midwayusa.com 
Best of the best. That said, this one will do just as just fine, and you can attach a drill to it if you want to:I have a birthday discount at Midway and was considering purchasing this item instead of a powered case trimmer. Has anybody used this?
L.E. Wilson Micrometer Case Trimmer Kit SS Titanium Nitride Coated
The L.E. Wilson Stainless Steel Case Trimmer with micrometer is unique in that it supports the case body through the trimming operation using holders...
Hornady Cam-Lock Case Trimmer Kit
The Hornady Cam-Lock Case Trimmer features a micro-adjustable cutter that allows for change in length in increments of 1/1000" without moving the...
www.midwayusa.com 
Just get this to attach a drill so you dont immediately hate yourself after the first batchI have a birthday discount at Midway and was considering purchasing this item instead of a powered case trimmer. Has anybody used this?
L.E. Wilson Micrometer Case Trimmer Kit SS Titanium Nitride Coated
The L.E. Wilson Stainless Steel Case Trimmer with micrometer is unique in that it supports the case body through the trimming operation using holders...
Edit: I forgot, its not got a 3 blade trimmer so hard pass from me as that makes it two more required handling steps of each case to chamfer and then deburr each one.
But whatever you get should be motorized if you want to enjoy the hobby.
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Description reads that only Hornady shellholders will work. I'm sure not all shellholders are same quality, since nothing in this industry seems to be the same quality across the board, so do Hornady shellholders have a decent reputation? It's half the price of the Wilson trimmer (after purchasing the Wilson accessories to hold the shells).Best of the best. That said, this one will do just as just fine, and you can attach a drill to it if you want to:
Hornady Cam-Lock Case Trimmer Kit
The Hornady Cam-Lock Case Trimmer features a micro-adjustable cutter that allows for change in length in increments of 1/1000" without moving the...
I have the Sinclair version of the LE Wilson trimmer -
Complaint 1- Without a platform, it's somewhat unstable (can tip over). Either secure (screw or clamp) the trimmer/stand to a wider base made of wood or bench top or buy a platform like the Sinclair or Creedmoor Sports (looks nicer than a piece of wood). Pros to mounting on a block of wood or platform is stability and storage convenience.
Complaint 2 - You need to seat the case firmly into the case holder, if you don't the cut will not be square.
Complaint 3 - If you don't wipe off case lube (after sizing) and insert the case in the case holder, sometimes the case will rotate inside the case holder while you're trimming (either by hand or via drill) and you'll have uneven trim lengths. If you're using the power adapter for the trimmer or using too much pressure on the cutter and not paying attention, it'll happen.
Complaint 4 - Chamfer/Debur is a separate process.
Complaint 5 - brass shavings goes everywhere. I haven't tried one of those 3d printed brass shavings collectors (that you can find on Etsy) yet, but I'm betting it'd be a good purchase.
Complaint 1- Without a platform, it's somewhat unstable (can tip over). Either secure (screw or clamp) the trimmer/stand to a wider base made of wood or bench top or buy a platform like the Sinclair or Creedmoor Sports (looks nicer than a piece of wood). Pros to mounting on a block of wood or platform is stability and storage convenience.
Complaint 2 - You need to seat the case firmly into the case holder, if you don't the cut will not be square.
Complaint 3 - If you don't wipe off case lube (after sizing) and insert the case in the case holder, sometimes the case will rotate inside the case holder while you're trimming (either by hand or via drill) and you'll have uneven trim lengths. If you're using the power adapter for the trimmer or using too much pressure on the cutter and not paying attention, it'll happen.
Complaint 4 - Chamfer/Debur is a separate process.
Complaint 5 - brass shavings goes everywhere. I haven't tried one of those 3d printed brass shavings collectors (that you can find on Etsy) yet, but I'm betting it'd be a good purchase.
Before I bought the Giraud, this is what I used. I bought a second one to use with their inside chamfer tool, then chucked an outside debur tool in a small drill. Case went in the holder, tap, into the first one, trim, into the second one, chamfer, hit it with the drill to debur, (I also hit the primer pocket with a cleaner while it was in the case holder before I started SS media tumbling), then tap the case out. I had mine screwed to my bench with socket head screws and t-nuts on the underside of my bench so I could take them off easily when I needed space for something else. My only regret with the Giraud is that I didn't buy it sooner.I have a birthday discount at Midway and was considering purchasing this item instead of a powered case trimmer. Has anybody used this?
L.E. Wilson Micrometer Case Trimmer Kit SS Titanium Nitride Coated
The L.E. Wilson Stainless Steel Case Trimmer with micrometer is unique in that it supports the case body through the trimming operation using holders...
Are you referring to the Tri-Way or their Power Trimmer?
I went for far too long using beam scales.
Spending 2hours the night before a match weighing out 100 powder charges on beams scales got old real quick.
You don't need to spend a lot of money to load decent or even good ammo.
I started off with a Lee Aniversary kit with the thought of upgrading down the track.
I never used the scales but the rest of the kit I still use.
Other than the on-press priming being complete dogshit (one day Ill get a better priming tool) I've been happy with the Lee.
The best reloading tool/gadget by far are powder dispensing scales, they save a shit load of time and aren't tedious like beam or normal digital scales.
I started off with a Lee Aniversary kit with the thought of upgrading down the track.
I never used the scales but the rest of the kit I still use.
Other than the on-press priming being complete dogshit (one day Ill get a better priming tool) I've been happy with the Lee.
The best reloading tool/gadget by far are powder dispensing scales, they save a shit load of time and aren't tedious like beam or normal digital scales.
Id absolutely rather have a chargemaster than a dang beam scale. That is just insaine. Doping with a manual then trickling up will work just fine but doing it on a beam scale is just ridiculous this day ans age. You can get the creedmore scale which is pretty dang good just not quite as fast as my AD120 and then you'd have a scale to use with an IP set up if you ever wanted to upgrade later (you will). Horrible advice to get a beam scale these days, there's just no reason to
Don't get the Redding shellholders if you go with the coax, they are incompatible.
Besides that the things that I hate doing the most are typically the things that take the most time. That would be brass prep (oh how I loathe thee, and throwing powder) I got Gucci stuff so I can make ammo quicker that is up to my high standard. I like shooting and I tolerate reloading, but the big part of why I like shooting is because I reload. ie, I enjoy the high quality results of my labor.
Something that I might of missed but don't remember being mentioned is a set calipers. You need a set of calipers. I'd recommend mituyo, but I started on Hornady calipers until they broke and upgraded to my mituyo calipers. I'd ditch the beam scale and get a chargemaster lite to start with if your not ready to jump in with both feet. I started with your exact mindset and ended up upgrading almost everything except my rcbs bench primer and my coax. They both have treated me right with minor maintenance to keep them running smooth. Of the two I would consider upgrading the priming tool, but not the coax. The old stuff still works, and makes good ammo, but it's just not fast enough for me so I got quicker more accurate equipment. The more accurate equipment is the biggest time saver in the long run with less wasted time on load development, but it also happens to be faster than other ways .
How much difference does .1 grain make in actual vertical accuracy? I do not even know what math to do.
Factory ammo
www.snipershide.com
Does +/- .1 grain matter?
My Lyman Gen 6 powder dispenser throws +/- .1 grain. For 41.5 gr, it will throw 41.4 and 41.5, and occasionally 41.6. will This really matter for POA? I can go faster if I dont trickle to exactly 41.5.
www.snipershide.com I think my old Gempro 250 was about $100. I used it for years before I upgraded to the FX120.
Was $100 the OP’s budget?
Be careful to consider what discipline each tool is geared toward. For instance, many of the processes benchrest guys use aren't very useful for long-range tactical. Like neck sizing only vs. full-length sizing, neck turning, there is a lot that doesn't make any difference in our game, or downright fails when you have to shoot in the rain or very dusty environments. Weighing at to-the-kernel accuracy is nice, but for me, if I have a load that is so finicky it won't shoot within +/- 5% of target charge weight, I won't use it and will find a load that does. I could dump charges of the loads I use without weighing each one and still achieve a very high hit percentage. That said, I do use a lab-quality milligram scale and weigh every charge because otherwise the voices in my head won't let me focus on the shooting.
I wasted a ton of time and a substantial amount of money early on doing things I thought were right, but eventually figured out they were unnecessary or just plain wrong. You're in the right place - there's a ton of great knowledge here. Buy once, cry once when you can, but try to stick to basics starting out. Hell, you really don't even need to trim for your first couple of firings. Buy a $10 hand-held chamfer tool and save the trimmer purchase for later. I will second what others have said about the LE Wilson full-length sizing dies being super nice for the money, and invest in some kind of micrometer top seater to preserve your sanity. Have fun, ask questions, and always try to learn from others' mistakes instead of your own!
I wasted a ton of time and a substantial amount of money early on doing things I thought were right, but eventually figured out they were unnecessary or just plain wrong. You're in the right place - there's a ton of great knowledge here. Buy once, cry once when you can, but try to stick to basics starting out. Hell, you really don't even need to trim for your first couple of firings. Buy a $10 hand-held chamfer tool and save the trimmer purchase for later. I will second what others have said about the LE Wilson full-length sizing dies being super nice for the money, and invest in some kind of micrometer top seater to preserve your sanity. Have fun, ask questions, and always try to learn from others' mistakes instead of your own!
Depending on what powder and/or cartridge and/or distance, it can be a little or a lot…
And it depends on the shooter too, I want ~4” of vertical at 1000 yards or better, ~2” or better at 750, etc… IME that means SDs in single digits, and it usually takes a tighter spread than +/- .1gn provides to reliably get there.
A kernel of Varget weighs 0.02-0.04gn, so a difference of 0.1gn can be as much as 5 kernels… playing a game where sometimes the targets are only 3 tenths tall, 5 kernels can be too much sometimes and I’ll take all the luck I can manufacture.
IMO/IME, when using decent components reloading doesn’t have to be as tricky as some make it out to be. If one has a good consistent brass prep regime, drops every charge the same to the kernel, and can reliably/consistently seat every bullet to within 1-2 thou of each other (measured base-to-ogive)… it’ll shoot… and further load development basically becomes an optional Rorschach test.
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No idea what his budget is . My point is you can get a beam scale for 100 dollars that you can trust . You can't do that with a 100 dollar chinese digital scale .
You can trust decent digital scales that don't cost an arm and a leg. If someone is worried about it, they can use their check weights more frequently... that takes like 2 seconds. How many digital scales have you owned that were unreliable?
I'd rather stab myself in the eye with a dull fork than wait around on a beam scale.
Get the best scale you can afford. If you're on a budget, like with any other piece of cheap-as-possible-trickle-down-import-tech, check the reviews.
Get the best scale you can afford. If you're on a budget, like with any other piece of cheap-as-possible-trickle-down-import-tech, check the reviews.
I don't have a set budget for any single tool. It seems like most of this stuff holds its value fairly well if I need to resell something later. But I certainly do not want to spend $600 on a scale.
EDIT - What do I want out of this? Satisfaction of knowledge from a new skill, satisfaction from proving to myself I'm capable of new things, satisfaction from the self-sufficiency aspect of reloading, and better groups than factory ammo. I'm not trying to win anything.
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I had a Gempro long ago. It seemed ok at first, but I noticed that whenever I'd add a few kernels of powder, it did not register on the scale. I had to lift the pan a little and let it resettle to get an accurate measurement. It also drifted quite a bit to where I had to re-zero every 5 or 10 rounds. I became so untrusting that I would save my first powder charge and compare it to my last, and they would often be different, not by a whole lot, but it would give me doubts about every charge. I finally bought a Sartorious (the gold standard back then). I don't remember what I paid, but it was a lot more than $600. And worth every penny. I still use it, it works flawlessly, and I never have to second-guess if it's correct. Just my opinion, the A&D FX-120i would be money well-spent. It's a quality tool that will serve you very well, and if you get into making higher volume at some point, you can add an autotrickler later.
When I think of all the money I spent on tools I thought were good enough at the time, I realize I probably would have just wasted it on hookers and blow anyway.
I had similar experience with my GemPro 250. It's accurate enough, but it just took some time to figure out a technique for dealing with the drift, part of which is to pull the pan off and set it back onto the scale before measuring a load. Eventually, I went with the FX-120i and it has no such issues.
I understand. As I stated before in the thread, cars come first so that's where any "extra" money would end up. Just lost $58 worth of race gas in the racecar yesterday due to a fuel leak I didn't know was there. Small price to pay, but it adds up.
I’ll put it to you a little differently…
Give every experienced reloader on this site a complete reloading setup for a single stage press containing only the most basic, entry level tools and components & allow them to upgrade just one tool.
Assuming no defects, they’re not going to upgrade from the Rockchucker, the Auto Prime, the Cabelas tumbler, or even the dies… 90% will upgrade the entry level scale to a quality powder dispenser.
Give every experienced reloader on this site a complete reloading setup for a single stage press containing only the most basic, entry level tools and components & allow them to upgrade just one tool.
Assuming no defects, they’re not going to upgrade from the Rockchucker, the Auto Prime, the Cabelas tumbler, or even the dies… 90% will upgrade the entry level scale to a quality powder dispenser.
This is definitely an interesting little thought experiment. Thank you.
In my experience the two biggest time sinks are brass prep and throwing charges. If you can economize those the. You’ll enjoy the chore much more because it’s easier and you won’t dread it. Additionally the tools should work for you, ergonomics play a big part in the experience of using anything.
Highly recommend the Inline fab press mounts, and ergo handles. You won’t be leaning to one side or bottoming out with your elbow locked. Get some good lighting too for your press, whether an LED strip or some Amazon articulated light. I’ll caveat the following that I hate with a burning passion using inefficient tools, I don’t mind spending the dollars to spend up the process, YMMV.
Press: for single stage, press has no real bearing on the quality of the output, I like Hornady LNL for ease of die use but really user preference.
Dies: Buy quality FL, micrometer seater for ease of use. Brand irrelevant. They all do the job of pushy small thing into big thing. A good mandrel die like 21st century in a nitride coating is nice for ironing out dented case mouths. Don’t need to lube either.
Die lock rings: Hornady lol
Digital calipers: Get good trades level quality, nothing crazy is needed here.
Comparator set: You’ll need this if you want to measure stuff like OAL from ogive, shoulder bump etc, again Hornady, Wilson whatever is on sale.
Priming: I prime on a prog press so I won’t comment here.
Powder throw: Spend the money on a charge master link, it’ll throw good enough for prs and hunting to where you’ll be under 15 fps SD. Not so expensive you can’t have more than one, then you’ll be really cooking with gas.
Trimming: For me, hate it with a passion, I’ve used turn style reddings, wft pilots in drill, hand crank Lee bullshit. Nothing compares to a Henderson. It’s a work of art. Or giraud but they aren’t the most ergonomic so read up on them before you buy.
Chronograph: Surprisingly no one mentioned it yet. Pretty vital if you’re cranking performance levels to be able to see what is having an effect and where. I’d wait for more reviews of the Garmin to make sure it’s not an over hyped flop then get that.
Brass cleaning: really depends on your volume, if you’ve got a dedicated space for a vibratory then probably the simplest, FA rotary tumbler does a good job but uses water. Pins are optional. If you’re doing less than 100 rounds a session, alcohol and a micro fiber towel goes a long way.
Lube: I’ve been using a lanolin+99% alcohol but it’s a motherfucker to get off without rotary tumbler. I’ve used Hornadys one shot but it doesn’t play well with other lubes, you need to be generous with it and keep an extra can on hand or you’ll get stuck cases if it’s near the end of its life and is just spraying gas.
Finally but good components, they really do save time, money and anguish figuring out what shoots well. Quality brass is probably the best ROI, then a powder that meets the application. For PRS/hunting Hornady bullets will do just fine. Go shoot, have fun. Reload better, shoot more. Good luck.
Almost forgot! Area 419 funnel with caliber specific head. Wonderful improvement over the plastic crap you typically see used.
Highly recommend the Inline fab press mounts, and ergo handles. You won’t be leaning to one side or bottoming out with your elbow locked. Get some good lighting too for your press, whether an LED strip or some Amazon articulated light. I’ll caveat the following that I hate with a burning passion using inefficient tools, I don’t mind spending the dollars to spend up the process, YMMV.
Press: for single stage, press has no real bearing on the quality of the output, I like Hornady LNL for ease of die use but really user preference.
Dies: Buy quality FL, micrometer seater for ease of use. Brand irrelevant. They all do the job of pushy small thing into big thing. A good mandrel die like 21st century in a nitride coating is nice for ironing out dented case mouths. Don’t need to lube either.
Die lock rings: Hornady lol
Digital calipers: Get good trades level quality, nothing crazy is needed here.
Comparator set: You’ll need this if you want to measure stuff like OAL from ogive, shoulder bump etc, again Hornady, Wilson whatever is on sale.
Priming: I prime on a prog press so I won’t comment here.
Powder throw: Spend the money on a charge master link, it’ll throw good enough for prs and hunting to where you’ll be under 15 fps SD. Not so expensive you can’t have more than one, then you’ll be really cooking with gas.
Trimming: For me, hate it with a passion, I’ve used turn style reddings, wft pilots in drill, hand crank Lee bullshit. Nothing compares to a Henderson. It’s a work of art. Or giraud but they aren’t the most ergonomic so read up on them before you buy.
Chronograph: Surprisingly no one mentioned it yet. Pretty vital if you’re cranking performance levels to be able to see what is having an effect and where. I’d wait for more reviews of the Garmin to make sure it’s not an over hyped flop then get that.
Brass cleaning: really depends on your volume, if you’ve got a dedicated space for a vibratory then probably the simplest, FA rotary tumbler does a good job but uses water. Pins are optional. If you’re doing less than 100 rounds a session, alcohol and a micro fiber towel goes a long way.
Lube: I’ve been using a lanolin+99% alcohol but it’s a motherfucker to get off without rotary tumbler. I’ve used Hornadys one shot but it doesn’t play well with other lubes, you need to be generous with it and keep an extra can on hand or you’ll get stuck cases if it’s near the end of its life and is just spraying gas.
Finally but good components, they really do save time, money and anguish figuring out what shoots well. Quality brass is probably the best ROI, then a powder that meets the application. For PRS/hunting Hornady bullets will do just fine. Go shoot, have fun. Reload better, shoot more. Good luck.
Almost forgot! Area 419 funnel with caliber specific head. Wonderful improvement over the plastic crap you typically see used.
When I started reloading in 1972 I bought:
RCBS Rockchucker single stage press
RCBS Powder measure
RCBS powder funnel
RCBS Powder trickler
RCBS Primer flipper
RCBS shell holder
RCBS lube pad
RCBS case lube
RCBS deburring tool
Ohaus 1010 powder scale
RCBS .243 Win dies
100 rounds Hornady .243 brass
100 Hornady 75 Grain Hollow point 6mm bullets
1 pound IMR 4350
1000 CCI LR primers ($6.00 as I recall)
a white plastic no name micrometer
And a Lyman reloading manual
Total cost was right at $100.00
I was making $300.00 a month at the time that summer. Still in HS.
$75.00 a week @$1.10 hr for 68 hours washing dishes in a popular burger joint.
But I had cash money and a ‘62 VW Hand-me-down Beetle that took about $2.00 to fill up.
Great times.
Checking the inflation calculator It seems it would be a lot more today to get started:
OP: good luck with your quest
A Forster, Hornady or an RCBS manual rotary case trimmer work fine to start, but when you get into volume reloading, the Giraud power case trimmer is incredible and a real time saver.
I’m sending you a pm as well.
RCBS Rockchucker single stage press
RCBS Powder measure
RCBS powder funnel
RCBS Powder trickler
RCBS Primer flipper
RCBS shell holder
RCBS lube pad
RCBS case lube
RCBS deburring tool
Ohaus 1010 powder scale
RCBS .243 Win dies
100 rounds Hornady .243 brass
100 Hornady 75 Grain Hollow point 6mm bullets
1 pound IMR 4350
1000 CCI LR primers ($6.00 as I recall)
a white plastic no name micrometer
And a Lyman reloading manual
Total cost was right at $100.00
I was making $300.00 a month at the time that summer. Still in HS.
$75.00 a week @$1.10 hr for 68 hours washing dishes in a popular burger joint.
But I had cash money and a ‘62 VW Hand-me-down Beetle that took about $2.00 to fill up.
Great times.
Checking the inflation calculator It seems it would be a lot more today to get started:
OP: good luck with your quest
A Forster, Hornady or an RCBS manual rotary case trimmer work fine to start, but when you get into volume reloading, the Giraud power case trimmer is incredible and a real time saver.
I’m sending you a pm as well.
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