Binoculars/ The Snipers choice

[MilDot1960]

Hi y'all I am starting the thread because Binoculars are often the one piece of kit that we always over look,

2/3 years ago I decided that I wanted a pair of the US Military either 7x30 0r 8x30 Steiner Binoculars with the Ranging Reticle in, Well because of ITAR that dream got shot down so I ended up buying a pair of Steiner 7x30 Navigator bino's that come in a very dark blue color which although they are a fantastic product I have always felt cheated because I they are not O/D G and dont have the Reticle, So then two months back I spied a pair of the Leupold Mark 4 10x50 Tacticle binos which are again an amazing piece of kit and they are the coyote colored ones with the most incredible Molle case I have ever come across, I would have happly paid that money just for the case, The Leupold have better light transmision and are very very clear and a narrower field of view but being 10 power they are better if you are in a LUP because of being able to hold them still for longer periods, One great feature they do have is that as with nearly all binos with a Reticle if you eyes are further apart or closer together than the norm then the Reticle always ends up canted which you have to correct with tilting your head, NOT So with the Leupods because you can rotate the Reticle so it is level to suit your personal eye distance ( I could'nt spell that correct long word) inter what ever its called, but the only draw back with them is that they are centre focus so every time you want to view some thing at different ranges you have to refocus, UNLIKE the Steiners which no matter how long it is since you last used them or where the target is they are always ready for action, I have seen the Leupolds on a list here that someone posted here and they are part of the Snipers kit.

So my question to all the serving and non serving or even Ex-Serving personal what was/is your choice if it was down to you as part of your personal Kit and why??? as in what works and what dont,

Thank for your time, John

 

[psinclair]

I like my Vector 21.

 

[Chiller]

I like my Vector 21.

Yet more reasons why we HATE you...

 

[MilDot1960]

Well thats about as good as it gets from what I have just read about them, with a range of 12kms/7.458miles and they replace 4 items in one unit that has to help with weight saving and batteries they seem to put all others in the shade,

thanks for sharing, john

 

[Chiller]

Hi y'all I am starting the thread because Binoculars are often the one piece of kit that we always over look,

2/3 years ago I decided that I wanted a pair of the US Military either 7x30 0r 8x30 Steiner Binoculars with the Ranging Reticle in, Well because of ITAR that dream got shot down so I ended up buying a pair of Steiner 7x30 Navigator bino's that come in a very dark blue color which although they are a fantastic product I have always felt cheated because I they are not O/D G and dont have the Reticle, So then two months back I spied a pair of the Leupold Mark 4 10x50 Tacticle binos which are again an amazing piece of kit and they are the coyote colored ones with the most incredible Molle case I have ever come across, I would have happly paid that money just for the case, The Leupold have better light transmision and are very very clear and a narrower field of view but being 10 power they are better if you are in a LUP because of being able to hold them still for longer periods, One great feature they do have is that as with nearly all binos with a Reticle if you eyes are further apart or closer together than the norm then the Reticle always ends up canted which you have to correct with tilting your head, NOT So with the Leupods because you can rotate the Reticle so it is level to suit your personal eye distance ( I could'nt spell that correct long word) inter what ever its called, but the only draw back with them is that they are centre focus so every time you want to view some thing at different ranges you have to refocus, UNLIKE the Steiners which no matter how long it is since you last used them or where the target is they are always ready for action, I have seen the Leupolds on a list here that someone posted here and they are part of the Snipers kit.

So my question to all the serving and non serving or even Ex-Serving personal what was/is your choice if it was down to you as part of your personal Kit and why??? as in what works and what dont,

Thank for your time, John

As with everything in this game....how much $$ do you have?

Vortex makes GREAT glass with a GREAT warranty. They also have a reticle version of their Binos

Vortex Tactical - Viper R/T 10x50

 

[MilDot1960]

Thanks for posting them here because they have a proper size Reticle in them, where my Leupolds are great but the Reticle is a small mildot type that sits left in the middle of the objective with no extension and if your eye sight needs correction then you can only use the Reticle with wearing glasses with the eyecups turned down otherwise it is like that on an FFP scope on minimum mag setting and out of focus even though you have a clear site picture of what you are observing, this is where duel diopter setting would be cool and the same issues occur when using LRFs when you try to read the numbers,

John

 

[ajwcotton]

I personally don't think there is a need for a sniper to hava a ret in binos. The reticle in binos is not for ranging purposes, it is for adjusting arty. I use a pait of zeiss conquest 8x30 when not using my victory lrf binos. I find that a compact set of binos and a plrf while it is 2 pieces of kit are handier than the vector 21's. I like always having a compact bino on my immediate kit and the larger vectors are just too big to have in a small accessory pouch. I think those leupolds are even a little too big.
Just my .02
Adam

 

[MilDot1960]

I personally don't think there is a need for a sniper to hava a ret in binos. The reticle in binos is not for ranging purposes, it is for adjusting arty. I use a pait of zeiss conquest 8x30 when not using my victory lrf binos. I find that a compact set of binos and a plrf while it is 2 pieces of kit are handier than the vector 21's. I like always having a compact bino on my immediate kit and the larger vectors are just too big to have in a small accessory pouch. I think those leupolds are even a little too big.
Just my .02
Adam

Yes you are right, they are 6 1/2 tall and weigh a fair bit too, I'm not sure if they were one of my best Ideas, nice to use but at 25 ounces they are 7 ounces heavier than the steiner 7x30s and it takes alot more effort to hold them still.

john

 

[Papa Zero Three]

I personally don't think there is a need for a sniper to hava a ret in binos. The reticle in binos is not for ranging purposes, it is for adjusting arty.

I don't disagree but given that I spent more time under binos doing range card data and milling targets than using them to adjust arty, and that was in combat, I find a milling reticle more of a benefit than an arty scale. Generally speaking, no one liked carrying the binos and often times they got left behind and or stayed in the ruck.

 

[CoryT]

If I need to carry it, I like the PLRF, if I really need binos for observation, I'll take the Vector. For something small, like pocket size, the Vortex monocular is nice, I've got the Leupolds and a set of 10x25 Zeiss binos, though they don't have a reticle. It always comes down to the competition between size, weight, performance and functionality.

 

[MilDot1960]

These Leupolds have a pure mildot reticle and theres two other versions, the others have the TMR or no reticle at all they are great things but the size and weight is an issue and if I had a choice and had to use them all day I would pick the Steiners

john

 

[one shot ST]

I've the new Steiner 10x50 with the SUMR reticle, excellent glass, a little bulky, about 1 kg, but very rugged







The SUMR reticle has .2 MIL, .5 MIL and 1 MIL, you have a lot of MIL available, good to spot targets

 

[MilDot1960]

one shot ST, they are the ones I tried to buy and the 8x30s and because of the ITAR thing they wont ship to the UK and I also tried to get them from Germany and they could'nt help either

john

 

[Jedi]

I love my Minox binos
No reticle but then i have never used binos for shot correction

 

[jordan0317]

We used the cannon image stabilizing binos in country and they were fuckin tits. Awesome to be able to observe and always have a steady image, good glass too.

 

[pmclaine]

I have a set of MilR 8x30 Steiners. They are a solid bino, not too bulky, not too heavy, they fit nicely in a leather WWII, USMC surplus bino case which hangs from my cruiser head rest.

Pulling them out of the case and bringing them up to the eye gives you quick magnification and they have a very tacticool appearance. I would look super using these rolling up to a truck crash to observe a UN shipping placard from a safe distance or on a post at a barricaded subject scene.

Reality - I usually drive right up to the crashed truck and at the perimeters I forget to take them from the cruiser. Knowing they are there though makes me feel cool.

When are my Steiners used - when I'm on vacation with the wife and kids and I want to watch John Kerry's nice ass yacht sailing around in the Nantucket Sound kind of hoping it runs aground. This is when they are not all they are meant to be. The infinity focus does not allow for a super sharp focus at every distance. For viewing wildlife or observing one object or specific point I find I wish I had a center focus to clean up the image slightly. Might just be me as I need glasses for distance but set my binos for use without the cheaters.

If you really need tacticool binoculars get the fast acquisition ready to go solid binos. If you are going to do something more akin to target observation at the range or bird watching and you wont need them to be bombproof go for something that will probably be less expensive and more user friendly. As a side note if you intend to use your binos at the range to observe shot holes dont expect much. the transportable size binos wont see much beyond 100 yards and operator shake if hand held will add to the problems.

 

[MilDot1960]

pmclaine, that issue with the focus I thought it was just my eyes playing up, but you are right because they always need tweaking on finer details, Steiner do make a pair of these binoculars which have the eye focus system and also the added bonus of the centre focus system which are the 8x30s wildlife model and they have the raparound eyecups.

And going back to what CoryT said, because he has four different set ups depending on the task at hand which also reflects what you say and what this really shows me is there is no such thing as a buy one do all pair of binoculars, and if I had to buy them all over again I think that I would buy the Bigger Leupold Mark 4 10x50 and a smaller pair like CoryT's Zeiss models,

Papa Zero Three came up with a good point in that no one wanted to carry the things which at about a pound and a half is going to be in the back of a persons mind when you are out on foot for a week or more, I think we would all be tempted to leave them behind too,

John

 

[pmclaine]

Steiner came out with a set of reticle binos back around 2006 or so that I recall being based on a body like the Peregrine but was all tact out with a Coyote molle case.

Those looked like nice compact glass, not as wide as the Mil line but longer, with a center focus. Couldnt find them just now on some sites I checked quickly. EDIT Cant open this at work but this link is for the 10x42 TacR Steiner 10x42 Tactical Military R Compact Surveillance Binoculars 650 . Steiner Binoculars.

Consider what your primary usage will be and buy accordingly. If your scoping a mountainside for animals/targets infinty focus could be ideal. If your stationary and your target is pretty much immobile your eyes will appreciate a center focus.

 

[turbo54]

I personally don't think there is a need for a sniper to hava a ret in binos. The reticle in binos is not for ranging purposes, it is for adjusting arty. I use a pait of zeiss conquest 8x30 when not using my victory lrf binos. I find that a compact set of binos and a plrf while it is 2 pieces of kit are handier than the vector 21's. I like always having a compact bino on my immediate kit and the larger vectors are just too big to have in a small accessory pouch. I think those leupolds are even a little too big.
Just my .02
Adam

Strongly disagree about having a reticle in binos.

While it is not helpful for rifle-fire ranging or shot corrections, its fantastic for communicating toother people where a target is.

Saying "to the left of the bush" is nowhere near as helpful as "40 mils left and 15 mils above the huge oak tree".

I have the Fujinon M24 8x30 binos with reticle. Not amazing binos, but very appropriate.

 

[sticshooter]

yep,like my m24's also,and hell you never know when you're going to have to call in an artillery strike on the dumbass in front of you who won't go when the light turns green.

 

[JLR]

I have a pair of the Vortex 10x50 R/T that are for sale if anyone is looking for a set. They are a really good optic with good glass and the reticle seems pretty useful. I'd keep them if I didn't need another scope so bad.

 

[MilDot1960]

yep,like my m24's also,and hell you never know when you're going to have to call in an artillery strike on the dumbass in front of you who won't go when the light turns green.

I Love the Smell of a Burning Nissan in the Morning, Smells like,,,,,,,,Victory

john

 

[Ouch!!]

I've had the m24 they are nice but itar regulated to.

Personally vector 21& Leupold mark 4 spotter would be perfect.

If those two aren't an option vortex makes a really awesome 10x binos.

 

[finbox]

We used the cannon image stabilizing binos in country and they were fuckin tits. Awesome to be able to observe and always have a steady image, good glass too.

This once you go IS you will never go back...I never have to have support to steady the image

 

[MilDot1960]

I've had the m24 they are nice but itar regulated to.

Personally vector 21& Leupold mark 4 spotter would be perfect.

If those two aren't an option vortex makes a really awesome 10x binos.

Its crazy because I can buy the Vector or Terrapins but a simple pair of binoculars are a threat to man kind, and trying to find the Mark 4 spotter at the correct price is a no go, @ over $3000,

I can fly to the US and stay for a week buy the scope and still come back with cab fare

john

 

[MilDot1960]

Take Those Leupold Mark 4 Tacticle Binoculars I think the list price in the US is around $625.00 In the UK the list is $970.00, yet some how I did eventually find them for $450.00 but that was sheer luck, The Mildot Master costs $67.50, so trying to perfect the gear you need is a tough and expensive job and costly if you get it wrong, Thanks for your input,

John

 

[Ouch!!]

Its crazy because I can buy the Vector or Terrapins but a simple pair of binoculars are a threat to man kind, and trying to find the Mark 4 spotter at the correct price is a no go, @ over $3000,

I can fly to the US and stay for a week buy the scope and still come back with cab fare

john

Damn 3k, I'll personally deliver mine to you for that lol.

 

[MilDot1960]

Well I just found a used plrf10 for $5250.00 and a new Terrapin for $3000.00 and the Mildot Master for $72.00, So dont be supprized if I start swimming across the pond to take you up on your offer

 

[VJJPunisher]

i too used the Fuji M24 binos, they were handy because of their small size, space and weight were of big concern and they filled the role very well. As mentioned maybe not the best there is but for cost comparison for a reticle bino they were great.

 

[AlterEgo]

Assuming you're in the UK, have you looked at IOR stuff? I would think the IOR B/GA 7x40 bins with reticule might work for you. I'm happy with mine...

The ones I really want are the EDF NVA East German things that look like two toilet paper tubes...

 

[ridurall]

Several years ago I sold all my telescopes and purchased a couple of binos that I thought I could count on. In July 2005 I purchased a pair of Canon 15X50 "All Weather" Image Stabilized Binoculars. I thought they would be great for hunting and keeping an eye on our 800’ driveway. About 3 years later I had some friends from another forum gather for a campout and fun shoot on my 400 acres. In the process we got caught in a rain storm when we only expected it to be a sprinkle. Everything got wet including my 35 year old spotting scope and my Springfield rifle scope. The only problem we had was ending up with some water in the "All Weather" Canon binoculars and sent them back for repair. I got a notice from them saying that the repair cost would be $1568.48. Man do I feel taken advantage of and will no longer being doing business with Canon in any shape of form. They obliviously do not value their customers or stand behind their products. Anyone else had this problem? I’ve got a set of Brunton Epoch binoculars that cost pretty close to the same price but they honor their Lifetime HALO warranty. No matter what happens they will fix or replace them. I also have a pair of Steiner 10X50 that I picked up in 1990 when stationed in Germany. Needless to say I won't even purchase a Canon camera. I like the idea of image stabilized binos but not when they won't stand behind them. After they got through screwing me I ended up taking them apart to clean the moisture out of them and while the glass is no longer as clear I was able to get the water out and not spend $1568.

 

[ChrisF]

I would try to get a Mil 6x30 Steiner , this is the one that has the red N2 gas plugs on the rear of the housing , while in the Army , I found they where best alpurpose bino , small & lite , and I always carried them around my neck , under my cam jacket .
And of the 2 Steiners we had access to virtually everyone grabbed the 6x30s , IF they run out then you where stuck with the much bigger 7x50s , that happened to me once , and I was annoyed , BUT overcame this , by unscrewing the bino , and just carrying one half , the half that had the reticle , had to adjust mortar fire .
Never used anything as lite / handy and as good as them , and I liked the fact you adjusted each focus , in my veiw made for a much more water proof item .

Have heard the Steiner 10x42 Mil bino is good as well .

Or if you could find an old Zeiss 8x30 armoured Green , maybe .

To me the most usuable Bino is the small 6x30 type , and its these ones that they donot make anymore , seems they do more smaller or larger .

Later Chris

 

[Delta4-3]

There is nothing like lugging a MILIOS up 13 flights of stairs with all your other crap when it's 125 degrees. I prefer the canons.

 

[ridurall]

For size and clear glass I would put the Brunton Epochs up against any Zeiss, Steiner or any other bino on the market. Plus the HALO Warranty is as good as it gets. I did put flip up scope covers over all the lenses to keep dirt out because the factory lense covers were not that great. They have a great field of view plus no flair, ring or purple tint when your looking at anything bright. The glass is the same minimum dispersions glass that you see in high end scopes or telescopes. PLus I believe they are all American made. They are not cheap but they are 1/2 of the $3000 scopes mentioned earlier. We were shooting at the Copper Mines ATV Park last Saturday where they had steel gongs set up from 300, yards out to a mile and I was tickled on how well they were able to catch bullet impacts in the dirt.

 

[ChrisF]

Aussie , just saw you looking at Mk4 Spotter @ 3k , forget that , and get a Zeiss Spotter 60 or 45 from IEA in Germany , cost for 60 was 4k NZD , get the 45 if you can , as the lower end of 15x will make finding target much easier .

 

[farmerbrown]

Gi'day - getting antipodean in here...

That Zeiss is a nice piece of kit, and a few around here have them, but we've settled on the Mark 4 - 20-40x60 as it's a fair bit cheaper than the Zeiss.

Managed to get one for 40% of the cost of Zeiss. Front focal plane with Mil-dot as my spotter and I use mils to communicate.

Also had my hands on the Vector 25 and Newcon LRB4000 CI, but when moving, first thing to get left behind as they aren't light.
Ok when you're in place with a .50, but...

I like the look of the Vectronix PLRF series, but we need a model with elevation, as there's lotsa slope around here and the Terrapin doesn't have it...

 

[Dogtown]

getting antipodean in here...

I see what you did there

 

[MilDot1960]

Aussie , just saw you looking at Mk4 Spotter @ 3k , forget that , and get a Zeiss Spotter 60 or 45 from IEA in Germany , cost for 60 was 4k NZD , get the 45 if you can , as the lower end of 15x will make finding target much easier .

G'day Chris, Thanks for the info I will check them out, I have had such a hard time on finding what I want, That I have now started buying Gear from the U.S. as I want quality plus I would rather give my money to the people who deserve it.

Along with that I am not getting ripped off even after I paid the $50.00 postage and $58.48c for import Duty on a pair of boots I still managed to save $145.95. My interests have cost me big time over here,

John

 

[CSTactical]

Give me the Swarovski EL Range Binos.

Mike @ CSTACTICAL