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Hunting & Fishing Bird Gun?

2

223ai

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 28, 2006
1,091
15
Texas
All -

I am in need of either a 12 or 20 gauge dove and quail shotgun, but have no idea what to look for. I'll be hunting in Texas exclusively, and am thinking that a 20 gauge is better for my needs. Any advice on the gun would be appreciated. Would like to keep the price reasonable.

Thanks,
Josh
 
Re: Bird Gun?

Josh - I recently went through the same acquisition cycle. I totally agree with you that 20 ga is the way to go - both because of weight and recoil.

If you don't care what action, the new Ithaca 20 gauge pump is a real jewel, with beautiful wood, and very highly rated by Randy Wakeman. If you want a softer recoil, then semi-auto is the way to go. I went through a very thorough evaluation, and concluded that the Browning Silver was the softest, best built 20 ga with excellent reliability. The Benelli Montefeltro is a touch more reliable (the best, really), but not as soft recoil. The Montefeltro has nice wood - but you can find another Benelli series with same action/ qualities in a black or camo gun. I ended up buying a Silver, and I am very pleased with it. The Remington and Mossberg simply do not compare. All of these go for about $1K. The Ithaca is the only one which is built in the US.

If I was buying a 12 ga semi-auto, I would pick the Browning Maxus Hunter if optimizing for recoil (the Maxus is still very good on reliability), or a Benelli Vinci if optimizing for reliability (the Vinci is still very good on recoil). Beretta has some nice models (not all) but their customer support is so poor that I do not trust them any more.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

browning bps! Way less than ithaca and just as smooth. Brother in law bought one last year in wood/blued 3" 12ga and its a fine little gun. I own 2 and abuse the hell out of em and they have never let me down. O/U are good for birds as well if your into that sort of thing. And both are less likely to jam than an auto. Just a country boys opinion.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

Beretta 391 20ga.

The 390 series beretta is the most used and proven semiauto in the world. Lighter than most with very little recoil due to the gas system. It will also cycle a wider range of loads compared to an inertia gun like a benelli. If you are patient you can find a good deal on one.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

I love my Winchester Super X2 12 guage. When the Super X2 was the new model it was said to be the fastest cycling semi-auto available. I've double tapped it on accident, made a believer outta me. It cycles way faster than I can shoot it and it is light weight.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

Benelli M2 20ga. Great shotgun! And the Sport model is way SEXY!
 
Re: Bird Gun?

I like break-opens especially if you're hunting with company. Easier to carry etc.

It may not concern you but I find most autos a bitch to unload too.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

I've shot the Maxus and the Vinci, but both kick harder and cycle slower than the SX3. That being said if you are just using it for dove and quail then you should stick with 20ga. 12 ga rips a quail apart. I would really recommend a 28ga, but its your choice.

BPS is great
870 Wingmaster is awesome
SX3 low recoil, fast, and dead on
SX2 great gun and on sale at Cabelas

The choice is yours. Go to a gun shop or skeet range and see if you can rent some guns. What fits you is what you should choose.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

Either the Beretta 390 or the Benelli M2.

I shot 4,000 rounds through a Beretta 390 20ga in 3 days of dove shooting in Argentina. It never malfunctioned. Recoil is light and it points like a dream. Sights are excellent. I bought a Benelli M2 to help a friend out and I have loved it. Although I have not fired but 600 rounds it is a great shotgun, tracks well, good sights and little recoil. My favorite is the 12ga Benelli Cordoba. It feels like a 20ga except for the length, the recoil is about like a 20ga and it tracks and swings easily and the sights are superb. However as mentioned above the gun new out of the box did not like light field loads. The inertia system takes a while to limber up.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

You don't specify an action type preference. I was looking for basicly the same thing a couple years ago. I ended up going with a CZ Ringneck in 20g with 28" barrels. The CZ shotguns in either SxS or O/U are a great setup for the money. With these you can get into a nice shotgun in the $400-$700 range depending on the modle your looking at.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

Benelli Cordoba in 20 gauge,

since they are not imported to europe that is what I would have gotten.

I have a Benelli Comfort 12 ga and that thing even though unpretty like the girl you shag but wont show your friends to shoots like crazy well in my hands and I have improved my shooting by 10-20 procent at the sporting clays,

so in short get one if your goal is to shoot well and not really care about how it looks.

Best regards Chris
 
Re: Bird Gun?

My 12 gauge Rem 870 has been my dove / snipe gun since I bought it when I was 18. A couple of years ago, I tried to bring an O/U to a hunt and the Washington Parish locals questioned my national devotion for bringing an "English gun" to hunt doves.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

Quick correction on the Beretta 391: the 390 is the most proven auto-loader. But the 391 has significant changes from the 390, increases the parts count by 9 (or is it 8?), makes it more of a pain to clean, and more likely to fail.

Imho, we should not put the 390 and the 391 in the same bag. The 390 was a great, reliable system. The 391 is not as reliable. That said, it is still possible to find a new 390 in lower end models.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

WestOfPecos....Have you cleaned both guns? The 391 Urika2 IS EASIER and less complicated. The 391 is also the MOST used semi in the sporting world now.

The 390 is still available though as a price point option.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

Pick something with two barrels stacked on top of each other and don't look back. There just simply more fun to shoot.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PFCSkoug</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pick something with two barrels stacked on top of each other and don't look back. There just simply more fun to shoot. </div></div>

The beretta white onyx is a great buy. Same frame as the pigeon, just not as fancy.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

Hi Shotgunner1526-

I certainly don't mean to discount your opinion. We all have our own preferences of course. My opinion is based, beyond my own experience, on the following info:

- Hayes and Hayes, the #1 outfitter in Argentina, rents shotguns to American hunters who fly in to hunt, and shoot up to 1,200 shotshells in one day... They say: "Beretta 391 doesn't hold up as well as the 390 because the 391 pistons break" (quoted here ). Of course, because they rent so many shotguns which shoot so much, their experience on shotguns goes across very large samples, and is therefore highly valuable.
- Chuck Hawks reports that they were not able to review the 391 in 20 ga because it jammed too much and they were not able to get the factory to fix it (quoted here - members only pages - if you spend $20 you can read their non-review:)
- Gun Tests says, about the 12 ga 391: "We feel the 391 gas array is overly complicated, and it is painful to clean compared to its own predecessors" (quoted here - another subscription site, sorry) - although they do like the 391 in 12 ga
- Gun Tests says, about the 20 ga 391: "Though Beretta had assured us that its gas guns do not have to be shot in, the 391 was an instant jam-o-matic, failing to feed nine consecutive times." (quoted here , same subscription web site)
- Randy Wakeman says here :"The Beretta Urika2 was a jamomatic right out of the box, failing to cycle a wide variety of loads including Winchester and Federal 1 oz. loads."

It is very unlikely that you could make a rifle more reliable by adding more parts. And, sure enough, the many reliable sources quoted above show low reliability. I do feel that my assessment of the 391 as less reliable than the 390 is supported by these quotes and their subtended facts (I should mention, however, that these sources are not fully independent because Randy Wakeman participates in several of these sites). On top of that, I think that we are all aware of the very poor customer support provided by Beretta: a combination of a less reliable shotgun with mediocre customer support does not augur well, despite the handsome looks and soft operation of the 391.

Hope this makes sense to you - However, all us of have to go on our own experience, so I quite understand if this does not change your opinion, and I respect that.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

It makes complete sense to me. These articles are all written by Randy Wakeman who has never had anything good to say about a shotgun. He does shoot a Beretta 391 though.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricM40</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PFCSkoug</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pick something with two barrels stacked on top of each other and don't look back. There just simply more fun to shoot. </div></div>

The beretta white onyx is a great buy. Same frame as the pigeon, just not as fancy. </div></div>

Thats exactly what i was thinking
 
Re: Bird Gun?

A couple of years ago I read an article on the Mossberg O/U and they praised them as an excellent value. No personal experience myself but they run under $500 at WM. That being said, I highly recommend you shoulder a few and find one that fits you...very important in shotgunning. I have to look hard to find one with enough drop in the stock that I'm looking down the rib and not over the top of it. With the influx of the Turkish guns, there are several companies that have good "utility" O/U's in the $500-$800 range.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

Thanks Sierra 2...great advice
smile.gif
 
Re: Bird Gun?

I have a yildiz from academy fro 399 bucks. Turkish made and sweet little gun. From the reading I did the mossbergs were bad about breaking pins and the yildiz seemed to have the least problems. Also have very nice wood compared to cz, stoeger or mossberg. only thing is its light. Less than 6lbs according to specs. Not a prob with low brass but a couple boxes of high brass is about all I care to shoot. Still a sweet little entry level O/U. also briley does all the warranty work so that outta count for something. Good luck in whatever you choose.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

O/U: I have never used CZ shotguns (although I have several of their rifles) but I heard very good things about them. They make a Woodcock Deluxe 20ga in 26" - that's what I thought I would buy if I ever decided to go for O/U. There is one on GunBroker now in what appears to be very good shape for $675.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

The article I read said the top 3 most reliable shotguns are:
1 - Rem 870
2 - Beretta 390
3 - Benelli SBE II

That being said, I own and have shot the heck out of the new remington 887. I bought the black one then I kryloned it and it turned out awesome. But it is a $330 dollar gun.
I have the Benelli Super Sport in 12ga and it is like driving a Cadillac compared to a ford Tempo. (From handling to the smoothness of the action) but i afraid to hunt with it. Dont get me wrong, the 887 is a great beater, but buy once and cry once. Reason I went with the 887 over the 870 wingmaster, the 887 fit better, and I use the super sport for club sporting clays.

My brother has the SBE II and he has literally never cleaned it in the 5+ yrs he has owned it. Never misfired or jammed yet and he has drug that thing through hell (my family is very brand proud and he trying to prove a point. I hope it jams on a big flock and I get to clean up with my lil remington
smile.gif
but the thing is, every review I read I hear teh same thing about the SBE II - like a rock.
Other brother bought the ppreviously mentioned Benelli COrdoba. That thing is also amazing and shoots without a miss and handles like a dream. these are the more expensive models available but if you look anround and be patient, good deals show up. (infact right now on Gunbroker is a used SBE II for under a grand).

Instead of asking this and that, and depending on your budget, go down to the local sporting good store with a good selection, and hold every shotgun they have. Feel is way more important than cool gazmos gas piston bushing lightweight laser stick that never misses companies charge so much for.

Regarding the O/U, that is another boat, and a decent on will run more on average than a good pump or semi...

YMMV,
DT
 
Re: Bird Gun?

I have older Ruger Red Labels in both 20ga and 28ga that I use for quail. Love 'em.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PFCSkoug</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pick something with two barrels stacked on top of each other and don't look back. There just simply more fun to shoot.</div></div>

I couldn't agree more! And while you're at it, buy American!
 
Re: Bird Gun?

For dove and quail a 20 gauge is plenty of gun. I prefer a lightweight O/U from Beretta or Browning, 24" or 26" barrels with removable chokes. Find one that fits you and you won't be more pleased. Plus, it's nice carrying a fine gun afield, but not so nice that a scratch worries you. I buy used but not abused guns.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

After taking pheasant hunters out for the last few years i hate double barrels and over/unders always reloading when the birds are flying. I like when the guy shows up with beat to shit 870 wingmaster chances are they know how to do some killing. Seems we have had to have old reliable on the bus for every kind of gun having a problem except the 870 some guys even put away there doubles and ask to use the 870 when they get tired of watching the chinese chickens fly over there head time and time again while reloading.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

No expert by any measure, but I will share some of my experiences.

I just got back from a Goose hunt in Knox county. 3 morning goose hunts and 2 afternoon pheasant hunts. There were 6 of us and 9 guns. 3 SBE II, 1 1100, 1 11-87, 1 870, 1 Weatherby Orion O/U, 1 Win 101 Superlight, and a Silver Pigeon. There, the biggest problem you have is keeping the sand out of the gun. The Benellis couldn't handle it. All of them had become one shot guns by the end of the first morning. The 1100 had become a 1 shot by the end of the second day, and the Winchester missfired the top barrel at least one time. I can tell you that the 11-87 was spotless before I left and was very dirty when I got home, but no problems cycling.

I had a 391 for 3 or four years. I loved that gun. They are super light, and very narrowly made so they point and swing very fast. I had a few shells not load quickly during a pheasant hunt because I had not cleaned the gun in over a year and it was very cold. A quick clean and it was back to its normal fast self. If you get one, get the synthetic stock though. The wood on the forearm is very thin and will not take abuse at all. I sold the gun after I had replaced 2 forearms at $150 a piece. One of the ones I ordered broke during shipping.

For the money, the 1100/11-87 is pretty tough to beat. They have been around forever. Parts are cheap if something breaks, and probably in stock at any gun/hardware store in the country. They are very reliable and they max out at about $700.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

Ive been using a Benelli SBE II for about 5 years now. Never had any problems with it, it performs in all weather conditions. A bit pricey, but well worth it in my opinion.
 
Re: Bird Gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PSYOPS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So....what's the best O/U gun??

...that doesn't cost tons of cash. </div></div>
I have an o/u mossberg in 20 ga
I believe it was less than 500 ive had it for afew years and have had no problems with it
 
Re: Bird Gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: varmint6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
PSYOPS said:
So....what's the best O/U gun??

...that doesn't cost tons of cash. </div></div>

SKB 500 series. Rebuildable trunions and built well.

As for a bird gun if the best for the least is an issue get and 870 and don't look back. For an autoloader Benelli, Beretta, Browning. I use a Benelli Super 90 24" for upland birds and a SBE (old I, still ticking) for ducks/doves/turkey. I used to shoot all Remingtons and have destroyed a couple of 1100's with thousands of rounds on skeet fields. Remington, for me, has lost it and I think they are just not up to others now as far as autoloaders go. I bought my duagther an 1100 youth and what a mistake...heavy and clunky..should've gone with the Beretta or a Montrefeltro. My SBE I has taken a load of S#*& from swamps to coastal ducks to dove fields and I have no complaints.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Bird Gun?

People overlook that with a shotgun how it fits, balances, and points for the individual is absolutely vital to your performance with it. Bird hunting requires you to quickly mount and have a perfect sight picture and cheek weld and fire accurately. If it's too heavy you can't swing it smoothly, if it's too long or too short your sight picture will change as you swing (because your face moves up/down the comb). You don't have time to get behind the gun, massage it into place, and take your time setting up the sight alignment.

Most of the semi-auto guns now are reliable, gone are the days when the Benelli M1 ruled the market in reliability. That said I still prefer the old M1/M2 for a semi, but part of that for me is balance and fit, I have high cheek bones and most stock hunting guns don't fit me for crap. The old M1's had spacers to change the effective comb height, that was key for me. I still prefer the M1/M2 to the newer versions, personally I think the only reason they changed them was to sell something new to people. My bird gun of choice is still my old M1.

That said I also really like the older browning Citori's, again the balance on the 28" version was perfect, they had solid lock up, and the older ones are well built, and the Belgium versions are sublime. I may be partial though I put so many rounds through a grade V citori trap that I wore the hinge pin out of it. Capacity isn't an issue in 99.9% of situations if you can't get it done in the first two shots, the third isn't going to do it either. O/U's have less moving parts, are easier to clean, and in general are more reliable, though again most of the autos now are very reliable. O/U's typically have better balance and swing a bit smoother, however most semi-autos can be adjusted for balance with weights in the mag tube/stock if needed.
 
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