This question may be played out but... Which is the better choice for suppressing in an ar platform and is there really a difference? Hornady is now loading factory 300 whisper so quality factory ammo is no longer a plus only for the blackout. And formed brass as well as dies should be easy to get for both soon. What do you guys think?
Suppressors Blackout or whisper
- Thread starter 1911bmw
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Re: Blackout or whisper
Whisper...
Whisper...
Re: Blackout or whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alderleet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">300 Backout. Its the only 300/221 wildcat that has gone through the SAAMI approval process. </div></div>
And why is SAAMI so important?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alderleet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">300 Backout. Its the only 300/221 wildcat that has gone through the SAAMI approval process. </div></div>
And why is SAAMI so important?
Re: Blackout or whisper
Not all Whisper/ 221/300 fireball will work in every chamber/gun. SAAMI standardizes the round.
Not all Whisper/ 221/300 fireball will work in every chamber/gun. SAAMI standardizes the round.
Re: Blackout or whisper
I have a lot of experience with both. For subsonic ammo and if you are a reloader, the Whisper is a good choice.
If you want to use factory ammo and/or reload lots of supersonic (basically loading to 7.62x39) the Blackout or Wilsons version of it is the way to go.
I have a lot of experience with both. For subsonic ammo and if you are a reloader, the Whisper is a good choice.
If you want to use factory ammo and/or reload lots of supersonic (basically loading to 7.62x39) the Blackout or Wilsons version of it is the way to go.
Re: Blackout or whisper
While the SAAMI may be important overall in choosing a round, I'm not sure it has anything to do with determining which round would be best for suppressing.
While the SAAMI may be important overall in choosing a round, I'm not sure it has anything to do with determining which round would be best for suppressing.
Re: Blackout or whisper
Seems like you are splitting hairs. The Blackout ammo is cheaper now, as well as brass since it comes from Remington. Performance is going to be all buy identical.
The price for loaded corbon whisper ammo is $40+ a box while Remington Subsonic is about $22. Both are loaded with 220gr SMK.
I went blackout because it is cheaper and I can shoot whisper ammo in the BLK chamber but not visa versa.
Seems like you are splitting hairs. The Blackout ammo is cheaper now, as well as brass since it comes from Remington. Performance is going to be all buy identical.
The price for loaded corbon whisper ammo is $40+ a box while Remington Subsonic is about $22. Both are loaded with 220gr SMK.
I went blackout because it is cheaper and I can shoot whisper ammo in the BLK chamber but not visa versa.
Re: Blackout or whisper
Better question. Which chamber has a higher accuracy potential?
Robert is on record as stating 4moa@ 100yds is par for remington sub loads and his blackout chamber.
That's not what the .300-221/whisper guys are getting....
And unless you have an actual ssk gun, the brass is IDENTICAL.
Better question. Which chamber has a higher accuracy potential?
Robert is on record as stating 4moa@ 100yds is par for remington sub loads and his blackout chamber.
That's not what the .300-221/whisper guys are getting....
And unless you have an actual ssk gun, the brass is IDENTICAL.
Re: Blackout or whisper
It is essentially asking the same question as 5.56 NATO vs. .223 Rem.
You can run Whisper in a 300 BLK but not necesarilly the other way around.
It is essentially asking the same question as 5.56 NATO vs. .223 Rem.
You can run Whisper in a 300 BLK but not necesarilly the other way around.
Re: Blackout or whisper
The chamber pattern is slightly different but the ammo is the same other than OAL (which doesn't matter because they are both throated for AR magazine length).
Both chambers will accept either factory ammo. It doesn't matter.
The chamber pattern is slightly different but the ammo is the same other than OAL (which doesn't matter because they are both throated for AR magazine length).
Both chambers will accept either factory ammo. It doesn't matter.
Re: Blackout or whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jbuck88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seems like you are splitting hairs. The Blackout ammo is cheaper now, as well as brass since it comes from Remington. Performance is going to be all buy identical.
The price for loaded corbon whisper ammo is $40+ a box while Remington Subsonic is about $22. Both are loaded with 220gr SMK.
I went blackout because it is cheaper and I can shoot whisper ammo in the BLK chamber but not visa versa. </div></div>
Have you considered the price of loading your own ammo versus buying factory all the time?
This applies to both calibers.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jbuck88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seems like you are splitting hairs. The Blackout ammo is cheaper now, as well as brass since it comes from Remington. Performance is going to be all buy identical.
The price for loaded corbon whisper ammo is $40+ a box while Remington Subsonic is about $22. Both are loaded with 220gr SMK.
I went blackout because it is cheaper and I can shoot whisper ammo in the BLK chamber but not visa versa. </div></div>
Have you considered the price of loading your own ammo versus buying factory all the time?
This applies to both calibers.
Re: Blackout or whisper
I was looking for loaded ammo for the blackout, and i found whisper instead. Is there a reason Hornady and CorBon are labeling their ammo as whisper instead of blackout?
I was looking for loaded ammo for the blackout, and i found whisper instead. Is there a reason Hornady and CorBon are labeling their ammo as whisper instead of blackout?
Re: Blackout or whisper
The Whisper is copyrighted by JD Jones of SSK. Corbon and Hornady are licensed, authorized, have an agreement to produce ammo and dies for SSK. The Whisper is a proprietary wildcat.
AAC and Remington decided to have SAAMI spec the cartridge and make it a standard. I believe once this occurs, all the members of SAAMI have the ability to produce this spec and call it Blackout. I could be wrong on that but that seems to be the course for SAAMI cartridges and it's member corporations.
By the way, Redding makes 300-221 (300 Fireball) dies which is nothing more than a thick neck Whisper. In any case, the various loaded ammo is all close enough to work in each others max chamber dimensions. None of it is loaded hot enough to make it an issue.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=655379
http://www.selpharms.com/300_Blackout_comparison.html
The Whisper is copyrighted by JD Jones of SSK. Corbon and Hornady are licensed, authorized, have an agreement to produce ammo and dies for SSK. The Whisper is a proprietary wildcat.
AAC and Remington decided to have SAAMI spec the cartridge and make it a standard. I believe once this occurs, all the members of SAAMI have the ability to produce this spec and call it Blackout. I could be wrong on that but that seems to be the course for SAAMI cartridges and it's member corporations.
By the way, Redding makes 300-221 (300 Fireball) dies which is nothing more than a thick neck Whisper. In any case, the various loaded ammo is all close enough to work in each others max chamber dimensions. None of it is loaded hot enough to make it an issue.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=655379
http://www.selpharms.com/300_Blackout_comparison.html
Re: Blackout or whisper
"Whisper" is a trademark and only folks licensed by SSK can use it.
Since 300 Whisper® ammo is compatible with 300 BLK, it stands to reason that they are using their investment to be the only two companies that are able to legally create that ammunition.
"Whisper" is a trademark and only folks licensed by SSK can use it.
Since 300 Whisper® ammo is compatible with 300 BLK, it stands to reason that they are using their investment to be the only two companies that are able to legally create that ammunition.
Re: Blackout or whisper
Thanks for the clarification.
Thanks for the clarification.
Re: Blackout or whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr. Phil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Whisper" is a trademark and only folks licensed by SSK can use it.
Since 300 Whisper® ammo is compatible with 300 BLK, it stands to reason that they are using their investment to be the only two companies that are able to legally create that ammunition.
</div></div>
Only legal to sell it under that name! Copyright and trademark protect names not physical items.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr. Phil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Whisper" is a trademark and only folks licensed by SSK can use it.
Since 300 Whisper® ammo is compatible with 300 BLK, it stands to reason that they are using their investment to be the only two companies that are able to legally create that ammunition.
</div></div>
Only legal to sell it under that name! Copyright and trademark protect names not physical items.
Re: Blackout or whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Better question. Which chamber has a higher accuracy potential?
Robert is on record as stating 4moa@ 100yds is par for remington sub loads and his blackout chamber.
That's not what the .300-221/whisper guys are getting....</div></div>
The Blackout test barrels shoot 0.85 MOA all day long (50 round averages (10 groups of 5 shots each)) with supersonic ammo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Better question. Which chamber has a higher accuracy potential?
Robert is on record as stating 4moa@ 100yds is par for remington sub loads and his blackout chamber.
That's not what the .300-221/whisper guys are getting....</div></div>
The Blackout test barrels shoot 0.85 MOA all day long (50 round averages (10 groups of 5 shots each)) with supersonic ammo.
Re: Blackout or whisper
Hornady had a pre-existing relationship with SSK.
Whisper(R) is like 223 or 6.8 SPC
BLACKOUT is like 5.56mm or 6.8 SPC-II
No one is going to make Whisper ARs going forward because they should not shoot Blackout ammo. It would be like making a 223 AR rather than 5.56mm.
Hornady had a pre-existing relationship with SSK.
Whisper(R) is like 223 or 6.8 SPC
BLACKOUT is like 5.56mm or 6.8 SPC-II
No one is going to make Whisper ARs going forward because they should not shoot Blackout ammo. It would be like making a 223 AR rather than 5.56mm.
Re: Blackout or whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hornady had a pre-existing relationship with SSK.
Whisper(R) is like 223 or 6.8 SPC
BLACKOUT is like 5.56mm or 6.8 SPC-II
No one is going to make Whisper ARs going forward because they should not shoot Blackout ammo. It would be like making a 223 AR rather than 5.56mm.
</div></div>
I have no intention of reaming my Noveske Fireball barrel to Blackout. What's the point? The 220gr Blackout is low low pressure. That extra throat does nothing. Now for those who want to run hot supersonic then maybe it makes sense. So what does that get you? 7.62x39 Oh boy! Whoopee! I don't get the extra throat especially since this is AAC's baby and that means selling suppressors. And suppressor means slow heavy bullets (to me anyway). Well, if you're looking for quiet vs. masking direction.
So I'm keeping my "match Blackout" Fireball chamber 'cause I sure ain't looking for 4 MOA which seems realistic given the jump that 220gr factory load has to make in a Blackout chamber.
Oops! Sorry, I didn't realize you were AAC R&D. Maybe you can answer the question then. What's the point of supersonic Whisper? You guys selling suppressors or wanting to kill pigs?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hornady had a pre-existing relationship with SSK.
Whisper(R) is like 223 or 6.8 SPC
BLACKOUT is like 5.56mm or 6.8 SPC-II
No one is going to make Whisper ARs going forward because they should not shoot Blackout ammo. It would be like making a 223 AR rather than 5.56mm.
</div></div>
I have no intention of reaming my Noveske Fireball barrel to Blackout. What's the point? The 220gr Blackout is low low pressure. That extra throat does nothing. Now for those who want to run hot supersonic then maybe it makes sense. So what does that get you? 7.62x39 Oh boy! Whoopee! I don't get the extra throat especially since this is AAC's baby and that means selling suppressors. And suppressor means slow heavy bullets (to me anyway). Well, if you're looking for quiet vs. masking direction.
So I'm keeping my "match Blackout" Fireball chamber 'cause I sure ain't looking for 4 MOA which seems realistic given the jump that 220gr factory load has to make in a Blackout chamber.
Oops! Sorry, I didn't realize you were AAC R&D. Maybe you can answer the question then. What's the point of supersonic Whisper? You guys selling suppressors or wanting to kill pigs?
Re: Blackout or whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What's the point of supersonic Whisper?</div></div>
You have fired a suppressed super sonic cartridge right? Point is not killing your hearing.
I would prefer a short barrel 300BLK shooting super sonics to a short barrel 5.56. Less noise and more umph.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What's the point of supersonic Whisper?</div></div>
You have fired a suppressed super sonic cartridge right? Point is not killing your hearing.
I would prefer a short barrel 300BLK shooting super sonics to a short barrel 5.56. Less noise and more umph.
Re: Blackout or whisper
Supersonic transition is still cumulative hearing damage. There's no free ride. I wear hearing protection even with the subs. While it's quiet to the observer, it's still too loud for me the shooter.
Supersonic transition is still cumulative hearing damage. There's no free ride. I wear hearing protection even with the subs. While it's quiet to the observer, it's still too loud for me the shooter.
Re: Blackout or whisper
The BLACKOUT chamber was actually developed based on setting the throat so that you can load the 220 or 240 Sierra to 2.26 OAL and have a 0.010 jump to the rifling. Jamming the bullet can give unpredictable startup pressure.
It also gives additional velocity potential with full power ammo, compared to a Whisper(R) chamber.
The point of full power ammo is it can way outperform 5.56mm up close for QCB, home defense, and hunting. Remington 125 grain AccuTip ammo will be awesome. It has been tuned to 12-18 inches of 10% gel penetration from 50+ yards away.
If you don't ream your chamber, factory subsonic ammo may go supersonic more easily due to the higher pressure. That may be why this guy gave the ammo a 1-star review after it went supersonic in his undisclosed rifle which may or may not have a bore that is below SAAMI minimum in cross-sectional area:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=856618
The BLACKOUT chamber was actually developed based on setting the throat so that you can load the 220 or 240 Sierra to 2.26 OAL and have a 0.010 jump to the rifling. Jamming the bullet can give unpredictable startup pressure.
It also gives additional velocity potential with full power ammo, compared to a Whisper(R) chamber.
The point of full power ammo is it can way outperform 5.56mm up close for QCB, home defense, and hunting. Remington 125 grain AccuTip ammo will be awesome. It has been tuned to 12-18 inches of 10% gel penetration from 50+ yards away.
If you don't ream your chamber, factory subsonic ammo may go supersonic more easily due to the higher pressure. That may be why this guy gave the ammo a 1-star review after it went supersonic in his undisclosed rifle which may or may not have a bore that is below SAAMI minimum in cross-sectional area:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=856618
Re: Blackout or whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TwoGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I'm keeping my "match Blackout" Fireball chamber 'cause I sure ain't looking for 4 MOA which seems realistic given the jump that 220gr factory load has to make in a Blackout chamber.</div></div>
There is only 0.010 of jump with mag-length ammo.
We have tested plenty of loads and did 0.085 MOA based on 50 shots (10 groups of 5 shots each) in a test barrel with the BLACKOUT chamber. The accuracy of the chamber is fine.
You can shoot the Hornady ammo in your chamber without reaming as it is loaded to be compatible with both chambers (like 223 can be shot in a 5.56mm chamber).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TwoGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I'm keeping my "match Blackout" Fireball chamber 'cause I sure ain't looking for 4 MOA which seems realistic given the jump that 220gr factory load has to make in a Blackout chamber.</div></div>
There is only 0.010 of jump with mag-length ammo.
We have tested plenty of loads and did 0.085 MOA based on 50 shots (10 groups of 5 shots each) in a test barrel with the BLACKOUT chamber. The accuracy of the chamber is fine.
You can shoot the Hornady ammo in your chamber without reaming as it is loaded to be compatible with both chambers (like 223 can be shot in a 5.56mm chamber).
Re: Blackout or whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Glocker17</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What's the point of supersonic Whisper?</div></div>
You have fired a suppressed super sonic cartridge right? Point is not killing your hearing.
I would prefer a short barrel 300BLK shooting super sonics to a short barrel 5.56. Less noise and more umph.</div></div>
+1, Having an 8 inch barreled carbine that can still deliver a .30 cal round, traveling at 2,200 fps, and delivering over 1,200 ft-lbs of energy defiantly has its place.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Glocker17</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What's the point of supersonic Whisper?</div></div>
You have fired a suppressed super sonic cartridge right? Point is not killing your hearing.
I would prefer a short barrel 300BLK shooting super sonics to a short barrel 5.56. Less noise and more umph.</div></div>
+1, Having an 8 inch barreled carbine that can still deliver a .30 cal round, traveling at 2,200 fps, and delivering over 1,200 ft-lbs of energy defiantly has its place.
Re: Blackout or whisper
I was finally able to confirm some of the data I worked up on my Shooter program for my .300blk. I had no problem hitting at 300 yards. My data was right on for my 220s suppressed out of my Noveske 8 inch barrel, I needed 10.6 mils for 300 and 5 mils for 200.
That's the first time I shot anything subsonic out that far, and I will say that it sounds like you are hitting a tin can instead of a steel plate.
I was finally able to confirm some of the data I worked up on my Shooter program for my .300blk. I had no problem hitting at 300 yards. My data was right on for my 220s suppressed out of my Noveske 8 inch barrel, I needed 10.6 mils for 300 and 5 mils for 200.
That's the first time I shot anything subsonic out that far, and I will say that it sounds like you are hitting a tin can instead of a steel plate.
Re: Blackout or whisper
I think someone is missing something in this thread. Maybe one of you guys or maybe me.
Correct me if my formula is wrong.
Subsonic+Surpressor=Quiet
Supersonic+Surpressor=Less Quiet
BTW there is something I do know and it's that you can't openly market commercial products unless you're a Hide vendor.
I think someone is missing something in this thread. Maybe one of you guys or maybe me.
Correct me if my formula is wrong.
Subsonic+Surpressor=Quiet
Supersonic+Surpressor=Less Quiet
BTW there is something I do know and it's that you can't openly market commercial products unless you're a Hide vendor.
Re: Blackout or whisper
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=73003
10 shots at 60 yards from 10 inch upper:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=73003
10 shots at 60 yards from 10 inch upper:
Re: Blackout or whisper
I'm not bashing the Whisper or the Blackout. I appreciate the efforts to make it a standard and I'm looking forward to the cheap ready made brass. I'll admit I'm a little biased about the use of supersonic suppression since I can't hunt with a can in my state and I don't shoot tactical matches.
However, there's no way Remington sub is only jumping .010 to the lands. Remington jammed the bullet into the case supposedly because they didn't like where the bullet was engaging the feed ramp. If it's going super, it's due to case capacity not engaging the lands.
http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5592
I'm not bashing the Whisper or the Blackout. I appreciate the efforts to make it a standard and I'm looking forward to the cheap ready made brass. I'll admit I'm a little biased about the use of supersonic suppression since I can't hunt with a can in my state and I don't shoot tactical matches.
However, there's no way Remington sub is only jumping .010 to the lands. Remington jammed the bullet into the case supposedly because they didn't like where the bullet was engaging the feed ramp. If it's going super, it's due to case capacity not engaging the lands.
http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5592
Re: Blackout or whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=73003
10 shots at 60 yards from 10 inch upper:
</div></div>
You got a 10 shot sub group? I'll pound sand if you can get a 10 shot sub MOA group with Remington 220 sub.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=73003
10 shots at 60 yards from 10 inch upper:
</div></div>
You got a 10 shot sub group? I'll pound sand if you can get a 10 shot sub MOA group with Remington 220 sub.
Re: Blackout or whisper
The Rem subsonic ammo is not mag length, so yes it has more jump. The 0.010 jump is for mag length ammo (2.260 OAL).
I picked the OAL of the Rem ammo. It is set to the most feed reliability. But if someone were making dedicated bolt gun ammo, they would likely load to full SAAMI length.
The Rem subsonic ammo is not mag length, so yes it has more jump. The 0.010 jump is for mag length ammo (2.260 OAL).
I picked the OAL of the Rem ammo. It is set to the most feed reliability. But if someone were making dedicated bolt gun ammo, they would likely load to full SAAMI length.
Re: Blackout or whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Glocker17</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What's the point of supersonic Whisper?</div></div>
You have fired a suppressed super sonic cartridge right? Point is not killing your hearing.
<span style="font-size: 11pt">
<span style="font-weight: bold">I would prefer a short barrel 300BLK shooting super sonics to a short barrel 5.56. Less noise and more umph.</div></div></span> </span>
+1, Having an 8 inch barreled carbine that can still deliver a .30 cal round, traveling at 2,200 fps, and delivering over 1,200 ft-lbs of energy defiantly has its place. </div></div>
-
10.5" / Suppressed .300 wispr. is wording pretty good so far with Supersonic Vel, & that is what I specifically built it for .
So far, Rolled & put-down a couple coyotes so far with it & I am pretty satisfied with my game plan .<span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="font-weight: bold"> Game-Plan was to ( lower the bullet Vel.) on the close quarters Night hunting ( with Upping the bullet weight ) .</span></span>
130 grn. pointed/soft point @ 'comfortable' 1950 fps Vel. . & Got the lighter BT 120's moving 'comfortably' over 2100 fps .
Have not shot SB .300wispr. next to SB .556 & I know the SB in .556 are brutal & hard to tame even with a muffler .
Honestly imho <span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">( Noise )</span></span> with 10.5" .30 cal. SB & Suppressor.
I am going to say it is NOT quieter than a Suppressed .223 16" AR .
@ Nighttime out in the Dark Quiet fields . The .223 Carbine suppressed is quieter.
Even though you are burning 10 Grn. less powder with the .300 wispr. Load over the .556 .
.300 wispr . It has to be the bigger Bore Diam. of Suppressor plus the SB with pistol GB positioning . Also Making it louder with a obvious Deeper BARK when you light one off .
Honestly have to say, .556 Suppressed with it's 'High-Pitch' SNAP . way more quieter when shooting in the Quiet fields @ night over the .300 wispr. Round .
But I am pretty happy so far with the short range hitting power on dogs @ night .
.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Glocker17</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What's the point of supersonic Whisper?</div></div>
You have fired a suppressed super sonic cartridge right? Point is not killing your hearing.
<span style="font-size: 11pt">
<span style="font-weight: bold">I would prefer a short barrel 300BLK shooting super sonics to a short barrel 5.56. Less noise and more umph.</div></div></span> </span>
+1, Having an 8 inch barreled carbine that can still deliver a .30 cal round, traveling at 2,200 fps, and delivering over 1,200 ft-lbs of energy defiantly has its place. </div></div>
-
10.5" / Suppressed .300 wispr. is wording pretty good so far with Supersonic Vel, & that is what I specifically built it for .
So far, Rolled & put-down a couple coyotes so far with it & I am pretty satisfied with my game plan .<span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="font-weight: bold"> Game-Plan was to ( lower the bullet Vel.) on the close quarters Night hunting ( with Upping the bullet weight ) .</span></span>
130 grn. pointed/soft point @ 'comfortable' 1950 fps Vel. . & Got the lighter BT 120's moving 'comfortably' over 2100 fps .
Have not shot SB .300wispr. next to SB .556 & I know the SB in .556 are brutal & hard to tame even with a muffler .
Honestly imho <span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">( Noise )</span></span> with 10.5" .30 cal. SB & Suppressor.
I am going to say it is NOT quieter than a Suppressed .223 16" AR .
@ Nighttime out in the Dark Quiet fields . The .223 Carbine suppressed is quieter.
Even though you are burning 10 Grn. less powder with the .300 wispr. Load over the .556 .
.300 wispr . It has to be the bigger Bore Diam. of Suppressor plus the SB with pistol GB positioning . Also Making it louder with a obvious Deeper BARK when you light one off .
Honestly have to say, .556 Suppressed with it's 'High-Pitch' SNAP . way more quieter when shooting in the Quiet fields @ night over the .300 wispr. Round .
But I am pretty happy so far with the short range hitting power on dogs @ night .
.
Re: Blackout or whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The BLACKOUT chamber was actually developed based on setting the throat so that you can load the 220 or 240 Sierra to 2.26 OAL and have a 0.010 jump to the rifling. Jamming the bullet can give unpredictable startup pressure.
It also gives additional velocity potential with full power ammo, compared to a Whisper(R) chamber.
The point of full power ammo is it can way outperform 5.56mm up close for QCB, home defense, and hunting. Remington 125 grain AccuTip ammo will be awesome. It has been tuned to 12-18 inches of 10% gel penetration from 50+ yards away.
If you don't ream your chamber, factory subsonic ammo may go supersonic more easily due to the higher pressure. That may be why this guy gave the ammo a 1-star review after it went supersonic in his undisclosed rifle which may or may not have a bore that is below SAAMI minimum in cross-sectional area:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=856618
</div></div>
Actually that was me. I had a problem with the ammo going super sonic.
My rifle is a Rem 700 that was converted from 17fireball to 300BLK with a Factory AAC BBL. I have been getting supersonic cracks with the remington ammo and not the corbon whisper ammo.
I do not have a working chrony at this time so I cannot tell you exactly what the FPS is, but my ears don't lie.
Also there are some others on a different forum getting the same results.
I am currently waiting for Rem to send out a replacement for my case of ammo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The BLACKOUT chamber was actually developed based on setting the throat so that you can load the 220 or 240 Sierra to 2.26 OAL and have a 0.010 jump to the rifling. Jamming the bullet can give unpredictable startup pressure.
It also gives additional velocity potential with full power ammo, compared to a Whisper(R) chamber.
The point of full power ammo is it can way outperform 5.56mm up close for QCB, home defense, and hunting. Remington 125 grain AccuTip ammo will be awesome. It has been tuned to 12-18 inches of 10% gel penetration from 50+ yards away.
If you don't ream your chamber, factory subsonic ammo may go supersonic more easily due to the higher pressure. That may be why this guy gave the ammo a 1-star review after it went supersonic in his undisclosed rifle which may or may not have a bore that is below SAAMI minimum in cross-sectional area:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=856618
</div></div>
Actually that was me. I had a problem with the ammo going super sonic.
My rifle is a Rem 700 that was converted from 17fireball to 300BLK with a Factory AAC BBL. I have been getting supersonic cracks with the remington ammo and not the corbon whisper ammo.
I do not have a working chrony at this time so I cannot tell you exactly what the FPS is, but my ears don't lie.
Also there are some others on a different forum getting the same results.
I am currently waiting for Rem to send out a replacement for my case of ammo.
Re: Blackout or whisper
I'll let you know. I am using a trident right now waiting for my N-6 still
I'll let you know. I am using a trident right now waiting for my N-6 still
Re: Blackout or whisper
Expect 7dB quieter with the AAC can. The pistol can makes more of a gunshot sound.
http://www.silencerresearch.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=2123
Expect 7dB quieter with the AAC can. The pistol can makes more of a gunshot sound.
http://www.silencerresearch.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=2123
Re: Blackout or whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Expect 7dB quieter with the AAC can. The pistol can makes more of a gunshot sound.
http://www.silencerresearch.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=2123 </div></div>
Mr Silvers, care to relay the info from Titsworths site for those of us who are not members over there ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Expect 7dB quieter with the AAC can. The pistol can makes more of a gunshot sound.
http://www.silencerresearch.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=2123 </div></div>
Mr Silvers, care to relay the info from Titsworths site for those of us who are not members over there ?
Re: Blackout or whisper
Yeah I understand that it is going to be louder with the trident, but I am shooting in a river valley and I know what a sonic crack is especially when it is echoing all around me. I had a box or two of the corbon fodder and that was not doing it.
I didn't come on here and bash the BLK, because I am hoping that it is just a problem with Remington QC.
Outsy- to look on the forum you just have to sign up for a account which is free. (I think) But Titsworth doesn't allow any copy and pasting from what I understand. IDK
Yeah I understand that it is going to be louder with the trident, but I am shooting in a river valley and I know what a sonic crack is especially when it is echoing all around me. I had a box or two of the corbon fodder and that was not doing it.
I didn't come on here and bash the BLK, because I am hoping that it is just a problem with Remington QC.
Outsy- to look on the forum you just have to sign up for a account which is free. (I think) But Titsworth doesn't allow any copy and pasting from what I understand. IDK
Re: Blackout or whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Expect 7dB quieter with the AAC can. The pistol can makes more of a gunshot sound.
http://www.silencerresearch.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=2123 </div></div>
Mr Silvers, care to relay the info from Titsworths site for those of us who are not members over there ? </div></div>
I can't - he copyrights the information. But 308 silencers work a lot better than 9mm silencers.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Expect 7dB quieter with the AAC can. The pistol can makes more of a gunshot sound.
http://www.silencerresearch.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=2123 </div></div>
Mr Silvers, care to relay the info from Titsworths site for those of us who are not members over there ? </div></div>
I can't - he copyrights the information. But 308 silencers work a lot better than 9mm silencers.
Re: Blackout or whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jbuck88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah I understand that it is going to be louder with the trident, but I am shooting in a river valley and I know what a sonic crack is especially when it is echoing all around me. I had a box or two of the corbon fodder and that was not doing it. </div></div>
Then it probably is, but we will know when your new ammo arrives.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jbuck88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah I understand that it is going to be louder with the trident, but I am shooting in a river valley and I know what a sonic crack is especially when it is echoing all around me. I had a box or two of the corbon fodder and that was not doing it. </div></div>
Then it probably is, but we will know when your new ammo arrives.
Re: Blackout or whisper
Regarding velocity - 300 Whisper(R) compared to 300 AAC BLACKOUT - if you load both to the same 55,000 psi pressure, the 300 AAC BLACKOUT in a 14.5 inch barrel would be expected to match the 300 Whisper(R) in a 16.1 inch barrel. Or another way to look at it - 300 AAC BLACKOUT in a 16.5 inch barrel would be expected to match a 300 Whisper(R) in an 18 inch barrel.
Regarding velocity - 300 Whisper(R) compared to 300 AAC BLACKOUT - if you load both to the same 55,000 psi pressure, the 300 AAC BLACKOUT in a 14.5 inch barrel would be expected to match the 300 Whisper(R) in a 16.1 inch barrel. Or another way to look at it - 300 AAC BLACKOUT in a 16.5 inch barrel would be expected to match a 300 Whisper(R) in an 18 inch barrel.
Re: Blackout or whisper
Very nice shooting rsilvers. To the OP, I opted for the 300BLK for a number of reasons, most of which are listed above. The SAAMI specs were a huge deal to me and the reason that I've stayed away from the Whisper prior to now. I use a lot of open source software too, and have released most of my ballistics engine code to open source so I do advocate for standards and open information and really appreciate that rsilvers has released his work into the SAAMI domain.
I live in Michigan right now and so can't (legally) have a suppressor, but spent all night last night loading up some subs as well as supers to head out and test today. I'm hoping the laws will eventually change or I'll move to a better state in a couple years and get a can for it.
The only powder I have on hand that's remotely close to the right burn rate is H4198 so that's what I'm using for both, starting load for the subs is 9gr over a 208 Amax, starting load for the supers is 14gr over a 150gr Sierra SP. Haven't tested these yet but based on my research they should be safe, it doesn't seem that the 300 blackout is really pressure limited, especially so with subs.
Very nice shooting rsilvers. To the OP, I opted for the 300BLK for a number of reasons, most of which are listed above. The SAAMI specs were a huge deal to me and the reason that I've stayed away from the Whisper prior to now. I use a lot of open source software too, and have released most of my ballistics engine code to open source so I do advocate for standards and open information and really appreciate that rsilvers has released his work into the SAAMI domain.
I live in Michigan right now and so can't (legally) have a suppressor, but spent all night last night loading up some subs as well as supers to head out and test today. I'm hoping the laws will eventually change or I'll move to a better state in a couple years and get a can for it.
The only powder I have on hand that's remotely close to the right burn rate is H4198 so that's what I'm using for both, starting load for the subs is 9gr over a 208 Amax, starting load for the supers is 14gr over a 150gr Sierra SP. Haven't tested these yet but based on my research they should be safe, it doesn't seem that the 300 blackout is really pressure limited, especially so with subs.
Re: Blackout or whisper
I tried it out at the range today and everything I brought was pretty slow. For the 150gr sierra's the best velocity I could get was 1492 ft/s using 16.0gr of 4198. This was almost a compressed load, so it doesn't look very promising to get the velocity up to where I want it to be.
I tried 10.0gr and 11.0gr H4198 for the 208 Amax subs, velocity was ~750 ft/s for the 10.0 and ~ 830 ft/s for the 11.0gr load. Neither load reliably cycled my bolt, but both would sometimes cycle it. I think a faster burning powder is necessary.
Edit: I am using a 16" CMMG barrel with pistol gas port location, and a normal carbine buffer spring and buffer.
I tried it out at the range today and everything I brought was pretty slow. For the 150gr sierra's the best velocity I could get was 1492 ft/s using 16.0gr of 4198. This was almost a compressed load, so it doesn't look very promising to get the velocity up to where I want it to be.
I tried 10.0gr and 11.0gr H4198 for the 208 Amax subs, velocity was ~750 ft/s for the 10.0 and ~ 830 ft/s for the 11.0gr load. Neither load reliably cycled my bolt, but both would sometimes cycle it. I think a faster burning powder is necessary.
Edit: I am using a 16" CMMG barrel with pistol gas port location, and a normal carbine buffer spring and buffer.
Re: Blackout or whisper
So the accuracy looks good but how is the muzzle flash and the use with night vision?
Even with a can, an SBR in 5.56 is fairly noisy and has a noticeable flash. Are these 300's any better in that regard? Also, can a person really load a 300 Blk down to where it is subsonic and still cycle the action of a gas gun?
From my experience, it's pretty heard to tell the difference of 7 decibels in the field. It seems to be more about the tone of the sound.
So the accuracy looks good but how is the muzzle flash and the use with night vision?
Even with a can, an SBR in 5.56 is fairly noisy and has a noticeable flash. Are these 300's any better in that regard? Also, can a person really load a 300 Blk down to where it is subsonic and still cycle the action of a gas gun?
From my experience, it's pretty heard to tell the difference of 7 decibels in the field. It seems to be more about the tone of the sound.
