Gunsmithing  bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

josey88

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It is a brand new 10FCP .308 , not shot yet .
I watched a youtube video yesterday with a guy shooting a Remington .308 and the way he was working the bolt with his thumb freaked me out with envy ... I need my complete hand to lift the bolt , nevermind using my thumb .
I heard about a Bolt lift kit for Savages ... what does it do and where can I get one ? I will apreciate info on this ... Thanks
 

milanuk

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    I used to have a 700VS that had been worked over for NRA XTC matches, later an old 40X that had similar treatment. Flicking the bolt back and forth was butter smooth and very, very fast. Never quite lifted the bolt with my thumb, but I could rotate my hand back and flip the bolt open and then back forward using my index finger. One or two of my Savage rifles are almost that smooth... but in general I don't think the cam angles are ever going to allow it to be *that* smooth. On the flip side... I had a custom actioned rifle that would just plain lock up when I'd try to flick the bolt forward like that unless I had my thumb on the tail of the bolt - *any* other way and it locked up like I hit a wall. I tried a friend's action of the same make recently - same thing...
    frown.gif


    The general idea with the bolt lift reducers is that rather than the inner sleeve riding on against the BAS, you install a small disc that has a ball bearing epoxied in place so that only the very tip of that ball makes contact with the BAS. Being as the contact area is much smaller, and the bearing is hard and smooth, the lift should (in theory) be much less. This all makes more sense if you disassemble the back end of the bolt.

    Sharp Shooter Supply (Fred Moreo) makes one that is essentially a .38 Special case cut off short, using the bottom of the case to locate it inside the sleeve, and the rim as the 'lip'. Epoxy a ball bearing in the primer pocket and shorten the sleeve approx. 1/10" (about what the rim thickness is, or else your bolt lift will be *harder* as you are compressing the main spring further). Stockade Gun Stocks (Kevin Rayhill) makes a machined part that does the same thing, just a little less DIY looking, for a few $.

    I've had both... and honestly I'm not that sold on them. The dang ball bearing/ BB keeps coming loose. The most bolt lift reduction I've gotten was from shortening the sleeve and then forgetting to put the damn lift reducer back in
    wink.gif
    In theory the main spring may not hit as hard (not compressed as much), but I never noticed the difference.

    On the guns I've had that were super slick, Rem or Savage... I think the 'secret' is they all had a *lot* of rounds thru 'em to smooth things out.
     

    geargrinder

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    I use a 357 case trimmed down with a 5/32" bearing epoxied in. I trim the BAS by the amount that the case and the bearing protrude from the cocking sleeve. I think it helps.

    But Monte is absolutely correct. The best way to smooth up the action is to shood the snot out of it.

    You say your rifle is new. Does it have the cocking indicator in the BAS? If it does, you will not be able to use the 38/357/Rayhill style bolt lift kit.
     

    milanuk

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    Dang. I wasn't aware of that thread. Some good info, and helpful pics in there. The thrust bearing washer setup looks kind of slick...
     

    BoilerUP

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    Kevin Rayhill @ Stockade Stocks. $7.50 plus USPS priority shipping for his bolt lift kit; I got two of them two weeks ago.
     

    josey88

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    I have the bolt cocking indicator , so the thrust bearing is the way to go for me , according to all the reading about the subject
     

    AXEMAN

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    38 case-- free
    5/32" ball bearing-- > 0.50
    red loctite-- had it
    saw, drill, time-- on hand

    total cost-- under a dollar

    knowing you did it instead of buying it-- priceless
     

    josey88

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AXEMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">38 case-- free
    5/32" ball bearing-- > 0.50
    red loctite-- had it
    saw, drill, time-- on hand

    total cost-- under a dollar

    knowing you did it instead of buying it-- priceless </div></div>

    Axe : It would be a lot more difficult for me to obtain a .38 cartridge , since I only have .45s and 9mm pistols (and a couple of beautifully upgraded 7.62x25 CZ52s) plus the ball bearing will be also an obstacle , so my most best bet is to order the thrust bearing from Avi ($3 +S/H) and get on with it . I would have to obtain a pair of washers of the same thickness to function as the outside spacer , so I will arm myself with my caliper and head to Lowe`s to dig until I find a couple of washers that will serve my purpose . One thing, thou : Can I coat the whole thing with light grease, thick grease or just oil ? It seems to me that a coat of grease will expedite things , reducing friction ... just a thought , but I will apply the grease only if you guys recommend it .
     

    turbo54

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AXEMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">38 case-- free
    5/32" ball bearing-- > 0.50
    red loctite-- had it
    saw, drill, time-- on hand

    total cost-- under a dollar

    knowing you did it instead of buying it-- priceless </div></div>

    You overpaid! LOL

    I found a split 357 case that was only good for scrap... say $0.01?

    5/32 ball bearing was $0.14 tax included.

    Didn't use epoxy, so $0.00 there.

    I ground my spring sleeve down the appropriate amount (.105"), and that wore a $5 dremel grinding bit about 1/10 the way - so $0.50.

    Total: $0.65

    Oh wait - I used a couple scrap bits if sandpaper to polish the tip of my BAS too...!

    This is a nice little project for the DIYer...cheap, easy, fast and rewarding...also makes you more intimate with the workings of your rifle.
     

    josey88

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    Well... I kept researching and reading about the bolt lift kit and it seems that for us owners with newer guns with the cocking indicator , it will be necessary to reduce it a bit to be able to use the thrust bearing to work . I am not willing to modify the rifle parts , so I guess this is it for me .
     

    pdogsbeware

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    I used the thrust bearings and coated them with lithium grease hoping it'd stay in place longer than oil. But I didn't notice a huge difference in the bold lift. But I also have no life, so it was just fun doing it haha
     

    pdogsbeware

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: josey88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not willing to modify the rifle parts , so I guess this is it for me . </div></div>

    I'm an idiot for not realizing that but still responding, sorry!
     

    jasonZ

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    Haven't guys simply been stacking the appropriate thickness of washes under the retaining bolt to accommodate the thickness of the bearing? I'm not sure about this and didn't keep up with the new cocking piece design and bolt lift kit. I bet you could call Kevin and he'd tell you what you can and can't do SAFELY. I went with the case mod lift kit. I'd also recommend picking up an extended or tactical bolt handle ae this will help ease your problem.
     

    AXEMAN

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: josey88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well... I kept researching and reading about the bolt lift kit and it seems that for us owners with newer guns with the cocking indicator , it will be necessary to reduce it a bit to be able to use the thrust bearing to work . I am not willing to modify the rifle parts , so I guess this is it for me . </div></div>

    you could just not have a cocking indicator or mod the bearing i think. someone got that to work with no mods. but i would think you could buy a non indicator firing pin i think. either way the longer handle will help with more leverage
     

    josey88

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    It will be perfectly acceptable to me to modify the thrust bearing and the two washers ... I am just reluctant to modify the rifle original parts . If someone has done it without mods it would be great ... I would really apreciate if that someone would post his solution . I have already upgraded the bolt handle with a 110 BA Tactical bolt handle (which BTW, is great and I like it a lot , although kind of expensive) and I have very carefully polished a couple of small spots on the bolt where there is friction and it has improved ... now the bolt moves smooth in and out ... the resistance is now only on the spring when cocking the action , so if I can make the thrust bearing kit to work it will be perfect , even thou now is way more acceptable than before .
     

    AXEMAN

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    you wont need two washers, just one. the back of the BAS will act as the second one. try opening the center hole in the thrust washer and see if that works.

    i respect how you feel, but turning down the indicator or eliminating it isnt a big deal
     

    jasonZ

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    Might want to check out savageshooters website. I think you can still use everything, but the classifieds if you're not a paid member. There's a ton of discussion on this very subject on that site. I know that the new cocking indicator was discussed, but I can't recall a solution or not. Just more info for you to use!

    savageshooters thread
     

    Eric B.

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    I "smoothed up" the action of my .308 Savage 99 C lever gun using medium then fine grit paste from my NESECO Fire Lapping kit. I used it mainly on the rear shoulder of the bolt until I had 100% contact with the mating reciever area. Since I'm rebarreling it with a new octagonal barrel I wasn't worried about any headspace change.

    For your Savage 110 I would use medium and then fine grit paste as well but even fine grit paste alone should do it. If you haven't Fire Lapped your Savage barrel I would recommend it if your are a reloader.

    For my Browning Stainless Stalker A-Bolt I had the rifle black Teflon-type flurocarbon coated, including the bolt. It is now "as smooth as snot on a doorknob" with the Teflon-against-Teflon finish. Yeah, it will wear off gradually but never completely. The action was trued by Neil Jones gunsmithing in Sagertown, PA before the coating was applied. That finish and the three lug, 60 degree bolt lift makes it a very fast action to work, as opposed to my stainless Remington based HS Precision target rifle with its 90 degree lift, also a trued action by HS Precision.
     

    stangfish

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    I have done the thrust bearing trick, machined a spacer to match the thickness of the TB. It didn't do a thing until I "adjusted" my firing pin and spring and lubricated it with some quality lube.

    You could call Fred at Sharp Shooter Supply. Pay the $125 for the T&T job, add a tactical bolt handle and be elated.
     

    eddief

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    I don't think the bolt lift kits do much of anything. The cocking ramp on the bolt body needs to be re-profiled. Doing this correctly will make your Savage cock like a finely tuned custom action.

    Give Karl Kampfeld a call and see if he is willing to do it. He can cut it correctly because he has 4 axis mill that can create the proper helix for the bolt body cam.

    He did mine and, it was night and day difference. One finger operation after that.
     

    jasonZ

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    Mind posting, pming, or emailing contact info for him. I'd be interested in having that done. This is my biggest gripe with a savage rifle. It's no deal breaker, but I'd be elated if it could be extremely reduced!

    Oh and you might want to read on savageshooters or there's a thread in the bolt rifle section, I think, in reference to Fred and SSS. I personally have never dealt with them, but based on everybody else's reviews and reports of long wait times and not being able to contact them....I don't think I will. I tried to contact them about getting an action timed and trued a couple years ago and gave up after 5 phone call attempts and 5 unanswered emails. Just my opinion and not trying to bash em. I've heard that they do really good work and some say they have no trouble contacting and not long waits like others report.
     

    kennyg

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddief</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think the bolt lift kits do much of anything. The cocking ramp on the bolt body needs to be re-profiled. Doing this correctly will make your Savage cock like a finely tuned custom action.

    Give Karl Kampfeld a call and see if he is willing to do it. He can cut it correctly because he has 4 axis mill that can create the proper helix for the bolt body cam.

    He did mine and, it was night and day difference. One finger operation after that. </div></div>I am also interested in having this done to my rifle. Would like some information on the details and cost? Thanks
     

    AXEMAN

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    Re: bolt lift kit for my Savage ?

    just look up kampfield guys, this is the internet. use yahoo. when you enter kampfield, you get kampfield customs. he flutes stuff.