I'm new to rifle reloading. Loaded several rounds of .308 150gr. bullets. My rifle is a Rem. 700. All brass was weighed and trimmed to exact length, and bullets seated to exact depth. (OAL of 2.769" and confident that the ojive of the bullet is not jammed into the lands.) The temp outside today was about 5 deg. F. in the wind, and after 6 rounds, I could no longer close the bolt on the 7th round. I tried to chamber several remaining rounds with no success. After I got home and everything warmed up, I could once again close the bolt. Can anyone tell me what is causing this?
- Thread starter TRPAUBREY
- Start date
Re: Bolt won't close on cold ammunition???
Did you full length resize your brass or did you neck size only?
Did you full length resize your brass or did you neck size only?
Re: Bolt won't close on cold ammunition???
Did you try to close the bolt on an empty chamber? It could of been ice around the lug seats. How far could you get the bolt to go until it had resistance? Were there any witness marks on any of the rounds that would not chamber? Did you try and chamber one of the fired rounds? Just my first thoughts.
Did you try to close the bolt on an empty chamber? It could of been ice around the lug seats. How far could you get the bolt to go until it had resistance? Were there any witness marks on any of the rounds that would not chamber? Did you try and chamber one of the fired rounds? Just my first thoughts.
Re: Bolt won't close on cold ammunition???
Did you measure how much you bumped your shoulder back? Did you try the brass in the rifle after you resized? If you didn't bump the shoulder back far enough, it could cause the problem you're experiencing.
Did you measure how much you bumped your shoulder back? Did you try the brass in the rifle after you resized? If you didn't bump the shoulder back far enough, it could cause the problem you're experiencing.
Re: Bolt won't close on cold ammunition???
Well now thats wrong as two boys holding hands in a hot tub! I have shot a LOT in weather like that and have never had that happen, I usually shoot nk sized only. Metal gets smaller when it gets colder so inless there was ice on the brass Im out, sorry I couldnt help. I am interested in what you find was the prob. Good luck.
Well now thats wrong as two boys holding hands in a hot tub! I have shot a LOT in weather like that and have never had that happen, I usually shoot nk sized only. Metal gets smaller when it gets colder so inless there was ice on the brass Im out, sorry I couldnt help. I am interested in what you find was the prob. Good luck.
Re: Bolt won't close on cold ammunition???
I agree with jbell. Not sure what could cause that. Let us know what you find out. Good luck to you. Maybe someone else will chime in with more help.
I agree with jbell. Not sure what could cause that. Let us know what you find out. Good luck to you. Maybe someone else will chime in with more help.
Re: Bolt won't close on cold ammunition???
If your bolt is closing fine with spent casings i would double check your seating depth and your caliper.
If your bolt is closing fine with spent casings i would double check your seating depth and your caliper.
Re: Bolt won't close on cold ammunition???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 10Truck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your bolt is closing fine with spent casings i would double check your seating depth and your caliper. </div></div>x2, the first thought that popped into my mind when I read that the bolt closed fine on the spent casings is that he loaded these way too long.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 10Truck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your bolt is closing fine with spent casings i would double check your seating depth and your caliper. </div></div>x2, the first thought that popped into my mind when I read that the bolt closed fine on the spent casings is that he loaded these way too long.
Re: Bolt won't close on cold ammunition???
Sounds to me like a bolt timing issue.
After a few rounds, the barrel is getting warm and the action is transfering the heat from the barrel down towards the tang. This means that the action migh be 0.001 to 0.003 longer than the bolt (which is not as warm as the action).
There is a camming mechanism that times the bolt into the action so that the bolt will close only after the bolt is past the lock.
Sounds to me like a bolt timing issue.
After a few rounds, the barrel is getting warm and the action is transfering the heat from the barrel down towards the tang. This means that the action migh be 0.001 to 0.003 longer than the bolt (which is not as warm as the action).
There is a camming mechanism that times the bolt into the action so that the bolt will close only after the bolt is past the lock.
Re: Bolt won't close on cold ammunition???
Thanks for the input guys. I am going to go out again in the next few days (it will be even colder), and try it again. I will first try freezing the gun and the ammo without firing a round to see if there are any issues. The comment about the bolt timing is intriguing. (Maybey I should start working out again....you know you're getting weak when you can't close the bolt on your gun).
Thanks for the input guys. I am going to go out again in the next few days (it will be even colder), and try it again. I will first try freezing the gun and the ammo without firing a round to see if there are any issues. The comment about the bolt timing is intriguing. (Maybey I should start working out again....you know you're getting weak when you can't close the bolt on your gun).
Re: Bolt won't close on cold ammunition???
Yeh i would be careful about putting a lot of force on to a remington 700 bolt... it is pretty common to have the bolt handle snap off.
You have been pre warned
Yeh i would be careful about putting a lot of force on to a remington 700 bolt... it is pretty common to have the bolt handle snap off.
You have been pre warned
Re: Bolt won't close on cold ammunition???
There seems like there has been allot of bolts not wanting to close topices here lately. Most all have been Rem 700 rifles. Is there something going on with Remi's quality control?
There seems like there has been allot of bolts not wanting to close topices here lately. Most all have been Rem 700 rifles. Is there something going on with Remi's quality control?
Re: Bolt won't close on cold ammunition???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jsthntn247</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There seems like there has been allot of bolts not wanting to close topices here lately. Most all have been Rem 700 rifles. Is there something going on with Remi's quality control? </div></div>
I would refrain from speculating without proper data.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jsthntn247</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There seems like there has been allot of bolts not wanting to close topices here lately. Most all have been Rem 700 rifles. Is there something going on with Remi's quality control? </div></div>
I would refrain from speculating without proper data.
Re: Bolt won't close on cold ammunition???
Just a thought, I had a similar issue with a .223 Rem...
When I checked the brass with a headspace gauge, I determined that the shoulders were not getting sized enough by the die.
Hornady says to set the die down to where it touches the shellplate...which I did. Someone here suggested going 1/8 to 1/4 turn more, so that the press would really cam over with some resistance- and that solved the problem.
I just got some RCBS dies for another caliber, and they specifically say to go 1/8- 1/4 turn past contact with the shellplate.
Just a thought, I had a similar issue with a .223 Rem...
When I checked the brass with a headspace gauge, I determined that the shoulders were not getting sized enough by the die.
Hornady says to set the die down to where it touches the shellplate...which I did. Someone here suggested going 1/8 to 1/4 turn more, so that the press would really cam over with some resistance- and that solved the problem.
I just got some RCBS dies for another caliber, and they specifically say to go 1/8- 1/4 turn past contact with the shellplate.
Re: Bolt won't close on cold ammunition???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jsthntn247</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There seems like there has been allot of bolts not wanting to close topices here lately. Most all have been Rem 700 rifles. Is there something going on with Remi's quality control? </div></div>
Seems like a lot of people reloading without a grasp on the concepts involved and proper education of what they are dealing with.
Back to the Arfcom gate being left open topic.......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jsthntn247</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There seems like there has been allot of bolts not wanting to close topices here lately. Most all have been Rem 700 rifles. Is there something going on with Remi's quality control? </div></div>
Seems like a lot of people reloading without a grasp on the concepts involved and proper education of what they are dealing with.
Back to the Arfcom gate being left open topic.......
Re: Bolt won't close on cold ammunition???
Guys it might be a sizing issue, but the fact that it is closing fine after he gets home and the rig and ammo warm up is what is intriguing.
I would guess that after a few rounds the action is warm enough to swell slightly, and is offering resistance against the ammo that may be near max tolerance.
Another possibility is that it is not ammo related at all, and the rifle is changing in another dimension itself....ice in the lugs--that's a new one on me after a rifle has been shot a couple of times, but heck, maybe the first couple of rounds cause the chamber to heat up, and then there is condensation built up due to the cold temps contrasting with the warm chamber and them oila..never heard of that, and frankly would think you could close a bolt over a fair bit of ice, the camming force on a bolt is pretty darn high.
Did the bolt close fine without a cartridge in the field when it wouldn't chamber a round?? I saw that the OP stated that the bolt closed fine on a empty--is that an empty from one of the fired rounds? and did it close fine on one just fired when in the field when the subsequent loaded rounds wouldn't chamber? If you can measure a fired case shoulder position, vs one of your loaded rounds, that will show you if you are too long on your shoulder position--meaning you didn't size the brass quite enough--the shoulder can actually move FORWARD if you size the case and the die is just hitting the body, but not the shoulder at all--guess how I learned that one--can you say hour trip to the range with 100 freshly loaded round for one of my rigs, of which NONE would chamber!!! WTF!! at least I was consistent in my process--HA
Hmmm.........
Guys it might be a sizing issue, but the fact that it is closing fine after he gets home and the rig and ammo warm up is what is intriguing.
I would guess that after a few rounds the action is warm enough to swell slightly, and is offering resistance against the ammo that may be near max tolerance.
Another possibility is that it is not ammo related at all, and the rifle is changing in another dimension itself....ice in the lugs--that's a new one on me after a rifle has been shot a couple of times, but heck, maybe the first couple of rounds cause the chamber to heat up, and then there is condensation built up due to the cold temps contrasting with the warm chamber and them oila..never heard of that, and frankly would think you could close a bolt over a fair bit of ice, the camming force on a bolt is pretty darn high.
Did the bolt close fine without a cartridge in the field when it wouldn't chamber a round?? I saw that the OP stated that the bolt closed fine on a empty--is that an empty from one of the fired rounds? and did it close fine on one just fired when in the field when the subsequent loaded rounds wouldn't chamber? If you can measure a fired case shoulder position, vs one of your loaded rounds, that will show you if you are too long on your shoulder position--meaning you didn't size the brass quite enough--the shoulder can actually move FORWARD if you size the case and the die is just hitting the body, but not the shoulder at all--guess how I learned that one--can you say hour trip to the range with 100 freshly loaded round for one of my rigs, of which NONE would chamber!!! WTF!! at least I was consistent in my process--HA
Hmmm.........
Re: Bolt won't close on cold ammunition???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fish301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys it might be a sizing issue, but the fact that it is closing fine after he gets home and the rig and ammo warm up is what is intriguing. </div></div>
This is what lead me away from a brass-sizing issue. Brass has a larger temperature coefficient than steel. That means it shrinks more wiht cold and expands more with heat. These are the opposite effects being discussed.
<snip>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another possibility is that it is not ammo related at all, and the rifle is changing in another dimension itself.....</div></div>
Thus my bolt timing comment.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did the bolt close fine without a cartridge in the field when it wouldn't chamber a round??</div></div>
This, then, becomes the critical question.
After those 6 shots::
Bolt closes fine without brass--sizing issue.
Bolt fails to close without brass--timing issue.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fish301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys it might be a sizing issue, but the fact that it is closing fine after he gets home and the rig and ammo warm up is what is intriguing. </div></div>
This is what lead me away from a brass-sizing issue. Brass has a larger temperature coefficient than steel. That means it shrinks more wiht cold and expands more with heat. These are the opposite effects being discussed.
<snip>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another possibility is that it is not ammo related at all, and the rifle is changing in another dimension itself.....</div></div>
Thus my bolt timing comment.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did the bolt close fine without a cartridge in the field when it wouldn't chamber a round??</div></div>
This, then, becomes the critical question.
After those 6 shots::
Bolt closes fine without brass--sizing issue.
Bolt fails to close without brass--timing issue.
Re: Bolt won't close on cold ammunition???
Well, I froze everything at -10 Deg.F.. TRied to chamber several rounds (most would not). After rifle & ammo warmed up, all but 5 rounds would let the bolt close. I pulled a bullet and tried the empty brass -would not close. Must be a brass sizing issue, however, I have measured almost every section off the brass compared to some that close with no problem. I cannot find any irregularities.... go figure. (the brass is Federal, once fired). I trimmed one back a few thou.(to 2.009") to see if they were too long... no luck. I guess I should have checked each piece of brass in the gun before I loaded it. The fact still remaines that the problem is amplified in the cold. I will try freezing the gun only tonight and re-test.
Well, I froze everything at -10 Deg.F.. TRied to chamber several rounds (most would not). After rifle & ammo warmed up, all but 5 rounds would let the bolt close. I pulled a bullet and tried the empty brass -would not close. Must be a brass sizing issue, however, I have measured almost every section off the brass compared to some that close with no problem. I cannot find any irregularities.... go figure. (the brass is Federal, once fired). I trimmed one back a few thou.(to 2.009") to see if they were too long... no luck. I guess I should have checked each piece of brass in the gun before I loaded it. The fact still remaines that the problem is amplified in the cold. I will try freezing the gun only tonight and re-test.
Re: Bolt won't close on cold ammunition???
It sounds like you just need to bump the shoulders back a bit more. Turn your die down a little bit at a time while each time sizing one of those pieces that will not work until it fits in your chamber. That should take care of it.
Scott
It sounds like you just need to bump the shoulders back a bit more. Turn your die down a little bit at a time while each time sizing one of those pieces that will not work until it fits in your chamber. That should take care of it.
Scott
Re: Bolt won't close on cold ammunition???
It was the shoulder length. I bumped back the shoulder on one of the brass and that made the difference. I guess the cold would have just amplified the problem somehow. A simple solution in the end that now makes me feel a little stupid. I tell my kids "don't overlook the obvious". Thanks for the replies.
It was the shoulder length. I bumped back the shoulder on one of the brass and that made the difference. I guess the cold would have just amplified the problem somehow. A simple solution in the end that now makes me feel a little stupid. I tell my kids "don't overlook the obvious". Thanks for the replies.
