I don't always phrase things the best but land navigating is something we have down. We've done long trail hikes and quite a bit of off trail as well as kayaking several times. The point i was making is that learning those what I consider vital basics has consumed almost all of of night time training. I'm getting into the the shooting aspect this fall but finding time to become competent in everything not to mention being an expert is challenging.
Night Vision Both eyes open night shooting?
- Thread starter GreenMushroom
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I don't always phrase things the best but land navigating is something we have down. We've done long trail hikes and quite a bit of off trail as well as kayaking several times. The point i was making is that learning those what I consider vital basics has consumed almost all of of night time training. I'm getting into the the shooting aspect this fall but finding time to become competent in everything not to mention being an expert is challenging.
I don't know much about bear attacks but if you shoot one at night at 25m+, to me, it doesn't sound like self defense. In a scenario where you are defending yourself, it seems to me that the bear has a high likelihood of being on top of you in which case you won't be able to shoot it with a rifle.
Bear Attacks - Seattle Backpackers Magazine
Seattle Backpackers Magazine explains that despite the recent news stories, bear attacks on the trails are pretty darn scarce.seattlebackpackersmagazine.com
This article (written in 2010) claims that there have been 6 bear attacks in washington state since the 20's.
Don’t lose sleep over bear attacks — but maybe worry about bees and dogs
The Washington State Department of Fish and Wildlife’s record of bear encounters lists 14 cases in which a person was injured and one death. Nationally, hornets, wasps and bees were responsible for 28% of animal-caused deaths, and dogs about 14%.www.seattletimes.com
This 2016 article claims 14, with 6 related to loose dogs and 6 related to bear hunting.
You might be more productive if you do some more critical introspection on what you're trying to accomplish and why. I'm not sure the best defensive set up in the woods is going to be an ar15 with a nox. It sounds like your goal is to take hikes safely so your priorities should probably look like: 1) navigation 2) awareness 3) shooting in defense, so I'd gear your equipment in the same direction. Bino i2 is going to be way better for navigation, and your coti is going to suffice for awareness/detection. For shooting... if you're far enough to where you can't hit the "assailant" with a pistol, I would almost never consider that shot to be defensive... animals don't have ranged weapons, and if your woods are thick you're not going to have them start charging from 20 plus meters away.
A lot of that is in I don't know yet territory. The one thing I do know is the coti is not sufficient for detection. Don’t get me wrong I love it as an always on early warning detector and I'll take whatever info it gives me but we've blundered right up on elk in the brush without so much as a blip from it.
I've tried running duel 14s and wasn't that impressed. We've navigated over all sorts of rugged terrain with single 14s. We might upgrade our tubes down the road but binos aren't on the table.
My experience shooting the nox is firing a few rounds at a stump so take these opinions for what they're worth. I've shouldered it a lot trying different setups and my impression is it will be quite fast. Somewhere between a red dot and a lpvo. There's no eye relief or scope shadow. I think I like it a little farther forward so the eyepiece is filled with the picture. You lose a little view because the corners of the box are cut off but this seems to lead to faster acquisition and more of a true 1x feeling.
I don’t want to start a debate on if a 5.56 can kill any of the animals you listed. I believe it can.
But you need to stop the animal’s forward movement in 10 yards distance. That’s a big ask. My gut reaction is to say 12 gauge slugs, but that has a whole different set of downsides, too.
Ultimately, training with what you have puts you way ahead of debating if you should have something better. I just hope you never have to stop a big animal at that distance.
But you need to stop the animal’s forward movement in 10 yards distance. That’s a big ask. My gut reaction is to say 12 gauge slugs, but that has a whole different set of downsides, too.
Ultimately, training with what you have puts you way ahead of debating if you should have something better. I just hope you never have to stop a big animal at that distance.
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast!
The shooting aspect is fun and holds some of its own challenges. I like trying different things out to "change it up" and keep it fun. Live game is a challenge and also nice, especially when you are helping out a farmer (I am just trying to keep the foxes and coyotes from completely destroying my flocks).
I know 556 isn't ideal but that and 9mm is what we've standardized on and we're probably not going to change that. I figure a face full of 223 along with the flash and noise will dissuade most critters 2 legged or 4 even if it doesn't kill. I don't care about bringing home a trophy I just don't wanna get run over by a 700lb swamp donkey.
Honestly, 45-70 is what you want. 500 auto max if you need to be operator.
This is if you are looking at 700 lb bears. I am not doubting a 223 could do the job, but there is a reason that people who live near bears lug around what people who live near bears lug around.
This is if you are looking at 700 lb bears. I am not doubting a 223 could do the job, but there is a reason that people who live near bears lug around what people who live near bears lug around.
That’s why I’m advocating a high capacity semi auto pistol (Glock 40). Unless you’re killing all grizzly bears that come within 30m of you (very well might be the right answer, I have no frame of reference), if it’s going to end up on top of you, it’s gonna be hard to get your rifle in the fight.
The coti’s detection capability is greatly dependent on operator familiarity with the settings. The gain knob and other settings are super finicky. It’s not perfect, but if you set the gain right I’d consider it an excellent detector at close ranges. If you didn’t detect it with a coti you likely wouldn’t have detected it with a nox.
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Bigger than .223 usually. Blueberry picking in Alaska with the family was a Benelli M2 and a Dan Wesson .445 Supermag (M2 was for the wife).
If out hunting, I packed a 45-70 levergun with 405grn hard casts.
I saw two old timers loading up 4 gallen buckets of blueberries off the Steese, probably in their 80's with both the wife and husband with 12ga's.
Yeah, I carry a 10mm 1911 when I hike, my wife a Glock 40. It's the most reasonable thing to do if, like me, you are dog shit with a revolver. It's rare to see a grizzly, though we had three in the front yard earlier this week. Shooting them means either grab a back hoe, or spend a few days with your local feds, so the best policy is to watch them go by, especially given that a number are collared and monitored. We generally hike with all four of our dogs, so most animals really aren't all that interested in us anyway.
I tell people that picking huckleberries is probably the most dangerous sport in Montana. It's no joke. My wife and dogs go with some friends of ours, who were both rural Alaska PD, and it gives meaning to the term "loaded for bear."
I have a custom 45-70 SBR that my wife had done at Grizzly Guns for me a couple of years ago. I keep it in camp hunting, or if I am riding I will strap it to my horse. Same bullets you are talking about.
700lb elk. The only bears I've seen are black bears which are pretty small and seem disinterested in us. My opinion might change as I get more experience but the elk seem more dangerous. Not that they're aggressive but they seem to be panic prone at night and go crashing off in random directions after letting us get much closer than you'd think they would.
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The point of the coti isn't to resolve your target, the point is to detect it. Detection and identification are two separate parts of a kill chain. The vague blob on full thermal is successful detection and you maintain 40 degrees of binocular fov which is a big deal. How sure are you that deer was 15-20 feet away?
@GreenMushroom if your COTI is not picking up deer at 15-20 feet away in heavy cover in Outline Mode, its not set right or something is wrong with it.
I have found that a COTI in Outline Mode will detect critters in heavy cover out to 100 yards or so, usually better than most other thermals. While you may not get a complete outline, it does alert to bits and pieces of a critters outline when other thermals are not alerting to anything.
I have found that a COTI in Outline Mode will detect critters in heavy cover out to 100 yards or so, usually better than most other thermals. While you may not get a complete outline, it does alert to bits and pieces of a critters outline when other thermals are not alerting to anything.
It usually does. The bits and pieces are what I refer to as blips. It is a very useful device or I wouldn't wear it. I usually walk in front and look for blips with my wife behind with the nox on a lanyard. When I get a hit she brings the nox up to get a resolution and pic if its interesting. This is a good combo and we've spotted many animals this way.
The percentage is probably very low but sometimes the coti misses stuff. That particular case is rare especially that close and working angles but it happens. My point isn't to criticize the coti which I find to be an invaluable tool. The nox just doesn't miss stuff. Mice, little birds, small animal poop on the trail it sees it all. Its ability to detect through the brush is uncanny. If they could make it 4oz and attach it to my 14 I'd mortgage my house for one
The fancy resolution on the nox is nice and I'm sure is what sells units but in practice its the detection ability that makes it so valuable. Doing research before buying i had in my my head that devices have a range and they see everything within that range. In the real world of course thats not the case. Thickness of the brush, conditions, angles, and even random chance play a role. Imo the nox is as close as it gets to 100%.
I have a phenom hand scanner on the way and I'm curious to see if the nox is really that good or if all newer high rez thermals have those abilities.
That's a guesstimate but on 1x to be that large in the image it was close so let's say 30ft at the outside. We had a string of pics from that encounter but unfortunately I deleted most of them. The deer was originally face on to us presenting a more narrow profile and was a bit to the right behind the thicker brush.
To be fair I was unable to resolve it with various brightness of ir light either. It moved from there parallel to the trail towards the orchard where we were headed and I tracked it with the coti easily while it was moving . I look at instances like that as an opportunity to learn and try out different devices to nail down what works and what doesn't under different circumstances.
Another thing I'd like to note on the coti is a lot of people seem to write off the modes other than outline as being useless. I have found myself using the full thermal mode more often of late. Its not great for when your moving but I've found when you only get a blip on outline mode switching to full thermal can at least give you an idea of the size of what you're looking at.
Wanted to update my comments on the behavior of the elk we've encountered. I talked this over with a guy at work who's been hunting this area for 40+ years. His explanation was that the elk rely on scent as there primary sense and will rarely bolt based on noise alone.
He said that we were getting that close due to unfavorable wind conditions and they were only able to smell us when we were right up on them. He feels that they know our location from hearing us long before that and the chances of them running over us was close to zero. Being in close brush when they go crashing off it sounds very random but he said they know exactly where we are and where they are going.
This is the setup we're currently carrying. I'm going to try others in the fall but this will get us by till then and the white light/red dot combo is something we've both practiced and are familiar with.
He said that we were getting that close due to unfavorable wind conditions and they were only able to smell us when we were right up on them. He feels that they know our location from hearing us long before that and the chances of them running over us was close to zero. Being in close brush when they go crashing off it sounds very random but he said they know exactly where we are and where they are going.
This is the setup we're currently carrying. I'm going to try others in the fall but this will get us by till then and the white light/red dot combo is something we've both practiced and are familiar with.
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We love our bcm carbines. Me and the wife each have one and my brother as well. That one is the wife's. I'm trying out the .5" woa riser with the .75 offset. I've only shot it during the day but it gives a nice heads up position. She only wears her goggle on her right eye so I moved it forward so she can use it passive or flip her goggle up and use the white light. We'd both had our dots pretty far back in the past and I like that forward position for snap shooting.
