I've had my Boyds stock for quite a while now. It is dead on at 50. Groups are anywhere from 1/4" - 1/2" using bipod and shoulder. At 100 the impacts are literally all over an entire sheet of paper. So if I want to shoot long distance I have to use the factory synthetic stock. I've heard some guys have had to have their actions bedded when they got their Boyds stock. Could this be my case? Has anyone else experienced this at all? I can't seem to figure out why it's so accurate at 50, but so inaccurate at 100.
- Thread starter SmallBoreSnipers
- Start date
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
That is strange… I'm assuming you are talking about a 22? Or your signature .17 rifle?
That is strange… I'm assuming you are talking about a 22? Or your signature .17 rifle?
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
It's my .17
I really wanna get it straightened out cause I'm living back up north now where my range goes out to 300 again. Woohoo!
It's my .17
I really wanna get it straightened out cause I'm living back up north now where my range goes out to 300 again. Woohoo!
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
Bed that dog as a matter of principal!
You'll have fun and lean something.
It could solve some issues as well.
nice .17 BTW!
Bed that dog as a matter of principal!
You'll have fun and lean something.
It could solve some issues as well.
nice .17 BTW!
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
Try bedding her and torquing her down properly.
I have had similar days with my rifle mate.
And then yesterday I took her out and sent a few shots out to 200 yards and It was spot on.
Try bedding her and torquing her down properly.
I have had similar days with my rifle mate.
And then yesterday I took her out and sent a few shots out to 200 yards and It was spot on.
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
Gosh SBS, that sucks! I replaced the synthetic stock that came with my Savage MKII FV with a Boyds Tactical. It is a big improvement over the factory stock. I did have to buy the good bottom metal so I could get the torque I wanted on the action screws.
Gosh SBS, that sucks! I replaced the synthetic stock that came with my Savage MKII FV with a Boyds Tactical. It is a big improvement over the factory stock. I did have to buy the good bottom metal so I could get the torque I wanted on the action screws.
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
i've heard of the same thing happening to a few others here and elsewhere, i don't remember if there was a solution or not.
although i don't have a boyds....yet....since it's made out of wood, could it be a temperature / humidity thing swelling the wood? yeah i know it's laminate, but still wood.
now that your back up north and you see the odd weather we've been having, maybe it's just that.
i'd shoot it off a bag though just to take operator error out of it as much as possible.
much like VMAN, i've had those days with the MKII savage laminated - one day a hero next day a zero - try another range trip before the panic button is pressed.
i've heard of the same thing happening to a few others here and elsewhere, i don't remember if there was a solution or not.
although i don't have a boyds....yet....since it's made out of wood, could it be a temperature / humidity thing swelling the wood? yeah i know it's laminate, but still wood.
now that your back up north and you see the odd weather we've been having, maybe it's just that.
i'd shoot it off a bag though just to take operator error out of it as much as possible.
much like VMAN, i've had those days with the MKII savage laminated - one day a hero next day a zero - try another range trip before the panic button is pressed.
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
Someone makes pillar replacemnts and someone else makes heavier bottom metal. Can't think of'em off the top of my head. But, that should allow you to torque the hell out of it. Need to get some for mine now that I think of it.
Someone makes pillar replacemnts and someone else makes heavier bottom metal. Can't think of'em off the top of my head. But, that should allow you to torque the hell out of it. Need to get some for mine now that I think of it.
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
I was shooting my monthly 100 yard TQ4 today with my MkII-TR and wasn't doing so hot so I got the question of whether the rifle had become less accurate or not. I shot bi-pod and no rear support for the legal target, and off of a front and rear rest for the illegal target for a comparison.
For the most part both targets were very similar showing the same dispersion but still couldn't come close to comparing to my score from last month. I can't imagine it would have been a result of the weather at least not from around here. Ten, maybe twenty degrees of difference and absolutly no wind was present today. Weather conditions were actually very similar thinking back to last month...
Anyways, the the 25 shots did place in the same spots on both targets, the only difference being that the target I shot off of heavy sand bags was a little tighter. Overall it more uniform but only by a small amount. I am a tad disapointed in the results of that test, although I know it's not <span style="font-style: italic"> entirely</span> my fault for not scoring near my last score
So I moved back to 50 yards and was less than impressed. It could have very well been my doing, but I wasn't receiving very cool groups, and certainly not what my rifle may have been capable of at one point in time. I think it is time for me to customize my setup in hopes of increasing accuracy.
I will try to get pics up for a visual aid soon, but right now my phone isn't letting me transfer the photos over to my computer.
-Dylan
I was shooting my monthly 100 yard TQ4 today with my MkII-TR and wasn't doing so hot so I got the question of whether the rifle had become less accurate or not. I shot bi-pod and no rear support for the legal target, and off of a front and rear rest for the illegal target for a comparison.
For the most part both targets were very similar showing the same dispersion but still couldn't come close to comparing to my score from last month. I can't imagine it would have been a result of the weather at least not from around here. Ten, maybe twenty degrees of difference and absolutly no wind was present today. Weather conditions were actually very similar thinking back to last month...
Anyways, the the 25 shots did place in the same spots on both targets, the only difference being that the target I shot off of heavy sand bags was a little tighter. Overall it more uniform but only by a small amount. I am a tad disapointed in the results of that test, although I know it's not <span style="font-style: italic"> entirely</span> my fault for not scoring near my last score
So I moved back to 50 yards and was less than impressed. It could have very well been my doing, but I wasn't receiving very cool groups, and certainly not what my rifle may have been capable of at one point in time. I think it is time for me to customize my setup in hopes of increasing accuracy.
I will try to get pics up for a visual aid soon, but right now my phone isn't letting me transfer the photos over to my computer.
-Dylan
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
It's not the stock if it's on at 50 and off at 100. If it was the stock it would be off everywhere.
i have for suspects, the first suspect = WIND
After that they are: ammo, parallax, shooter in no particular order.
It's not the stock if it's on at 50 and off at 100. If it was the stock it would be off everywhere.
i have for suspects, the first suspect = WIND
After that they are: ammo, parallax, shooter in no particular order.
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
I really had to torque the hell out of it in order to get it to be accurate at all. I also have a second barrel lug location a few inches down the barrel from the one I'm using now. Anybody ever give that a shot? Any ideas on that?
I really had to torque the hell out of it in order to get it to be accurate at all. I also have a second barrel lug location a few inches down the barrel from the one I'm using now. Anybody ever give that a shot? Any ideas on that?
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SmallBoreSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really had to torque the hell out of it in order to get it to be accurate at all. I also have a second barrel lug location a few inches down the barrel from the one I'm using now. Anybody ever give that a shot? Any ideas on that? </div></div>
Marlin uses a crappy system, IMO. My 925 (.22) torques down fine. My 917 OTOH, is very sensitve to over torque, which is to say I "barely" tighten down the action screws, any more than that and I bind the action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SmallBoreSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really had to torque the hell out of it in order to get it to be accurate at all. I also have a second barrel lug location a few inches down the barrel from the one I'm using now. Anybody ever give that a shot? Any ideas on that? </div></div>
Marlin uses a crappy system, IMO. My 925 (.22) torques down fine. My 917 OTOH, is very sensitve to over torque, which is to say I "barely" tighten down the action screws, any more than that and I bind the action.
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
Interesting. I've always just thought it was better torqued way down, so that's how I've always had it. I haven't tried loosening them up.
Interesting. I've always just thought it was better torqued way down, so that's how I've always had it. I haven't tried loosening them up.
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
CZ guys say to start torquing a 452 or a 453 at about 18 and go up and see what works best, usually it's about 25 in-lbs, with a 452 you torque the rear first and then the front, and I don't think the front needs as much on a 452, on a 453 you start with the front then the back, and in this case the front is the one that counts. Torque is a place to look for better groups, but if you're on at 50 and wacky at 100 try different ammo. Look at the groups in the targets in my thread about bedding in a Boyd's, look at how everything opened up at 100 (except for the Wolf Match)
CZ guys say to start torquing a 452 or a 453 at about 18 and go up and see what works best, usually it's about 25 in-lbs, with a 452 you torque the rear first and then the front, and I don't think the front needs as much on a 452, on a 453 you start with the front then the back, and in this case the front is the one that counts. Torque is a place to look for better groups, but if you're on at 50 and wacky at 100 try different ammo. Look at the groups in the targets in my thread about bedding in a Boyd's, look at how everything opened up at 100 (except for the Wolf Match)
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's not the stock if it's on at 50 and off at 100. If it was the stock it would be off everywhere.
<span style="color: #CC0000">It <span style="text-decoration: underline">USED</span> to be on at 50 <span style="text-decoration: underline">AND</span> 100. Now it isn't.</span>
i have for suspects, the first suspect = WIND
<span style="color: #CC0000">My thoughts exactly, but, there was absolutly no wind at all. This eliminates this suspect. </span>
After that they are: ammo, parallax, shooter in no particular order.
<span style="color: #CC0000"> Ammo: I couldn't see this being the culprit simply because I got great results with this same ammo several times before and in much worse conditions than this (PERFECT)
Parallax: I don't honestly know how it would effect the groups because I've not read up much on the effects of improper parallax settings, but I always set it to the appropriate range and check for clarity before shooting. I have an SWFA SS 10x42mm scope on my rifle and have never had any problems with it. But I cannot elimintae this one.
Shooter: I know this could probably be the biggest contributing factor in my current problem. But, I tested this by setting the rifle down on heavy sand bags and pretty much eliminating myself from the equation. My NPA gets checked before every shot, I only fire at the pause in the resporitory cycle, and in between heart beats (probably not necessairy at this distance but I am practicing it ayways), I also have a slow deliberate trigger pull that I try to keep as square as possible to the bore of the rifle, and my follow through is perfect. The reticle barely moves at all and I can easily spot my shots impacts (sometimes this isn't the case at 200+ because I am forced to wear sunglasses which isn't ideal for my vision but It's what I have and am forced to wear eye protection). I seriously don't think the problem lies with my personal shooting abilities. That being said I'm no where near perfect, but it is what I strive for. I consider myself a decent shot at the worst.</span>
</div></div>
Any other suspects? I think the torque on my action may have loosened up a slight amount, after all, I have shot over 1200 rounds so far without ever checking them.
Any thoughts?
-Dylan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's not the stock if it's on at 50 and off at 100. If it was the stock it would be off everywhere.
<span style="color: #CC0000">It <span style="text-decoration: underline">USED</span> to be on at 50 <span style="text-decoration: underline">AND</span> 100. Now it isn't.</span>
i have for suspects, the first suspect = WIND
<span style="color: #CC0000">My thoughts exactly, but, there was absolutly no wind at all. This eliminates this suspect. </span>
After that they are: ammo, parallax, shooter in no particular order.
<span style="color: #CC0000"> Ammo: I couldn't see this being the culprit simply because I got great results with this same ammo several times before and in much worse conditions than this (PERFECT)
Parallax: I don't honestly know how it would effect the groups because I've not read up much on the effects of improper parallax settings, but I always set it to the appropriate range and check for clarity before shooting. I have an SWFA SS 10x42mm scope on my rifle and have never had any problems with it. But I cannot elimintae this one.
Shooter: I know this could probably be the biggest contributing factor in my current problem. But, I tested this by setting the rifle down on heavy sand bags and pretty much eliminating myself from the equation. My NPA gets checked before every shot, I only fire at the pause in the resporitory cycle, and in between heart beats (probably not necessairy at this distance but I am practicing it ayways), I also have a slow deliberate trigger pull that I try to keep as square as possible to the bore of the rifle, and my follow through is perfect. The reticle barely moves at all and I can easily spot my shots impacts (sometimes this isn't the case at 200+ because I am forced to wear sunglasses which isn't ideal for my vision but It's what I have and am forced to wear eye protection). I seriously don't think the problem lies with my personal shooting abilities. That being said I'm no where near perfect, but it is what I strive for. I consider myself a decent shot at the worst.</span>
</div></div>
Any other suspects? I think the torque on my action may have loosened up a slight amount, after all, I have shot over 1200 rounds so far without ever checking them.
Any thoughts?
-Dylan
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
Any other suspects? I think the torque on my action may have loosened up a slight amount, after all, I have shot over 1200 rounds so far without ever checking them.
Any thoughts?
-Dylan[/quote]
My Savge Mark II TR went to hell when the screws backed off. I put the heavy bottom metal on did a trigger job and all is well again. I torqued it down to 25 inch pounds.
Any other suspects? I think the torque on my action may have loosened up a slight amount, after all, I have shot over 1200 rounds so far without ever checking them.
Any thoughts?
-Dylan[/quote]
My Savge Mark II TR went to hell when the screws backed off. I put the heavy bottom metal on did a trigger job and all is well again. I torqued it down to 25 inch pounds.
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
Well I think I found a temporary solution. It seems that at 100 it likes to be shot free recoil. Tried it out for the first time today. I put 5 rounds in about 1.5". Still not as accurate as the factory stock though. What does this say about the rifle? Is there still an issue or is this typical in some cases?
Well I think I found a temporary solution. It seems that at 100 it likes to be shot free recoil. Tried it out for the first time today. I put 5 rounds in about 1.5". Still not as accurate as the factory stock though. What does this say about the rifle? Is there still an issue or is this typical in some cases?
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael396</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Savge Mark II TR went to hell when the screws backed off. I put the heavy bottom metal on did a trigger job and all is well again. I torqued it down to 25 inch pounds. </div></div>
Is it safe to torque it down w/o the thicker bottom metal? I've read that it may damage the weak parts of the stock but how high can i go without encountering this problem?
Thanks, I do plan on getting the bottom metal soon, but right now I can't, and I don't feel like waiting either if there is something that can be done in the meantime.
Edit: Sorry for thread jacking
Wasn't intended
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael396</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Savge Mark II TR went to hell when the screws backed off. I put the heavy bottom metal on did a trigger job and all is well again. I torqued it down to 25 inch pounds. </div></div>
Is it safe to torque it down w/o the thicker bottom metal? I've read that it may damage the weak parts of the stock but how high can i go without encountering this problem?
Thanks, I do plan on getting the bottom metal soon, but right now I can't, and I don't feel like waiting either if there is something that can be done in the meantime.
Edit: Sorry for thread jacking
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
Dylan,
PM sent.
Dylan,
PM sent.
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
With Small Bore Sniper's permission to post these here, I am going to show what I am talking about in my previous posts.
In March I shot this target w/ the same ammo and very similar condidions in the same position (in fact, the same exact bench at my shooting range...). This is what I believe it should at the least be capable of:
Now here is the one I shot this past weekend in almost exactly the same condidions (besides a bit different temps) and believed didn't quite capture what I'm personally capable of:
And here is the target I fired that same day in the same exact conditions directly after the target posted above, but this time off of the aformentioned front/rear rests:
Note how similar these two targets are in shape and size; obviously the latter of the two has impacts closer to each other in more of 'groups' when in reality all impacts that were close together were fired at different points in the string. I think these results could be a direct result of the action screws going too loose which would explain alot of the problems I've been having but ignoring and writing off as shooter's error. Obviously time will tell if it was actually me or not, I'm still full willing to accept the blame, but if it was in fact the rifle I will be overjoyed
Anyways, thoughts, comments, and/or concerns are welcome and greatly appreciated!
Regards,
-Dylan
With Small Bore Sniper's permission to post these here, I am going to show what I am talking about in my previous posts.
In March I shot this target w/ the same ammo and very similar condidions in the same position (in fact, the same exact bench at my shooting range...). This is what I believe it should at the least be capable of:
Now here is the one I shot this past weekend in almost exactly the same condidions (besides a bit different temps) and believed didn't quite capture what I'm personally capable of:
And here is the target I fired that same day in the same exact conditions directly after the target posted above, but this time off of the aformentioned front/rear rests:
Note how similar these two targets are in shape and size; obviously the latter of the two has impacts closer to each other in more of 'groups' when in reality all impacts that were close together were fired at different points in the string. I think these results could be a direct result of the action screws going too loose which would explain alot of the problems I've been having but ignoring and writing off as shooter's error. Obviously time will tell if it was actually me or not, I'm still full willing to accept the blame, but if it was in fact the rifle I will be overjoyed
Anyways, thoughts, comments, and/or concerns are welcome and greatly appreciated!
Regards,
-Dylan
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
as you are torqueing down the action screws watch the bottom metal for any kind of deflection. i have seen the bottom metals start to deflect at 15 in/lbs......way too low to hit the sweet spot for accuracy. The bottom metal was engineered to deflect in an effort to prevent the factory stocks from breaking. The problem is, you cannot get to the appropriate torque setting with the thin factory bottom metal. If you torque the action screws to 15 in/lbs and the bottom metal actually bends, you will have a different amount of pressure on the action to stock contact point the next time you retorque to 15 in/lbs. thin, bending metal will prevent you from getting to the appropriate setting and make it very difficult to get consistent torque setting on the action screw. If you buy a savage you are getting a very accurate rifle......but are also committing to buy better bottom metal if you want to squeeze more accuracy out of the gun. just one of those things......start here.
as you are torqueing down the action screws watch the bottom metal for any kind of deflection. i have seen the bottom metals start to deflect at 15 in/lbs......way too low to hit the sweet spot for accuracy. The bottom metal was engineered to deflect in an effort to prevent the factory stocks from breaking. The problem is, you cannot get to the appropriate torque setting with the thin factory bottom metal. If you torque the action screws to 15 in/lbs and the bottom metal actually bends, you will have a different amount of pressure on the action to stock contact point the next time you retorque to 15 in/lbs. thin, bending metal will prevent you from getting to the appropriate setting and make it very difficult to get consistent torque setting on the action screw. If you buy a savage you are getting a very accurate rifle......but are also committing to buy better bottom metal if you want to squeeze more accuracy out of the gun. just one of those things......start here.
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
What ammo are you using?
Assume those pictures are at 100 yds, correct?
The way the shots are stringing from 4:30 to 10:30 definitely indicates something in either you or the rifle that is making the action move in a diagonal plane. With handguns I can predict that without coaching 90% of right handed shooters will be hitting low and left by the time they shoot the 4th or 5th magazine (most by the 2nd) because they start milking the pistol or pushing their shoulder into it.
I'm not that experienced in rifle shooting to know what may be causing that one. But it is definitely mechanics, either yours or the rifle. The fact that it wants to shoot better "free recoiling" seems to indicate that you are influencing the shot more than you thing you are.
What ammo are you using?
Assume those pictures are at 100 yds, correct?
The way the shots are stringing from 4:30 to 10:30 definitely indicates something in either you or the rifle that is making the action move in a diagonal plane. With handguns I can predict that without coaching 90% of right handed shooters will be hitting low and left by the time they shoot the 4th or 5th magazine (most by the 2nd) because they start milking the pistol or pushing their shoulder into it.
I'm not that experienced in rifle shooting to know what may be causing that one. But it is definitely mechanics, either yours or the rifle. The fact that it wants to shoot better "free recoiling" seems to indicate that you are influencing the shot more than you thing you are.
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
I have no clue what is causing the issue; but I would check scope parallax just on general principle.
I assume you're using subsonics, but if not, maybe they might help.
I have no clue what is causing the issue; but I would check scope parallax just on general principle.
I assume you're using subsonics, but if not, maybe they might help.
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
I would put some washers between the stock, the action screws and the action itself.
Raise it all off the stock a little. Also, check the inletting for the recoil lugs.
If the inletting is off and the recoil lug is contacted heavy on one side, you may need to loosen the recoil lug and shift it so that its not tight on one side.
I would put some washers between the stock, the action screws and the action itself.
Raise it all off the stock a little. Also, check the inletting for the recoil lugs.
If the inletting is off and the recoil lug is contacted heavy on one side, you may need to loosen the recoil lug and shift it so that its not tight on one side.
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
I'm using CCI TNT hollow points. Yeah it's strange at 50 I can shoot regular BR style or free recoil and the accuracy will actually be pretty much the same, but at 100 it makes a world of difference.
I'm using CCI TNT hollow points. Yeah it's strange at 50 I can shoot regular BR style or free recoil and the accuracy will actually be pretty much the same, but at 100 it makes a world of difference.
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SmallBoreSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm using CCI TNT hollow points. Yeah it's strange at 50 I can shoot regular BR style or free recoil and the accuracy will actually be pretty much the same, but at 100 it makes a world of difference. </div></div>
oops, all that was not relevant, this is your .17
You might try another ammo. The 17 is supposed to have plenty of velocity to stay SS for a long way.
An addition about parallax, if you move your eye behind the scope does the X hair move on the paper? If it does your parallax is off and you're getting a different sight picture for each shot, but you can't tell it, and where you are holding the X is not necessarily where the muzzle is pointing. Adjust the parallax till it looks like the x hairs are painted on the target. The SS doesn't tunnel, make sure if you move your eye behind the scope the X hairs don't move on the target.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SmallBoreSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm using CCI TNT hollow points. Yeah it's strange at 50 I can shoot regular BR style or free recoil and the accuracy will actually be pretty much the same, but at 100 it makes a world of difference. </div></div>
oops, all that was not relevant, this is your .17
You might try another ammo. The 17 is supposed to have plenty of velocity to stay SS for a long way.
An addition about parallax, if you move your eye behind the scope does the X hair move on the paper? If it does your parallax is off and you're getting a different sight picture for each shot, but you can't tell it, and where you are holding the X is not necessarily where the muzzle is pointing. Adjust the parallax till it looks like the x hairs are painted on the target. The SS doesn't tunnel, make sure if you move your eye behind the scope the X hairs don't move on the target.
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
And I goofed about subsonics, assuming we were dealing with .22LR. Personally, it's issues like this that helped me decide to stick with .22LR, again and again.
And I goofed about subsonics, assuming we were dealing with .22LR. Personally, it's issues like this that helped me decide to stick with .22LR, again and again.
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And I goofed about subsonics, assuming we were dealing with .22LR. Personally, it's issues like this that helped me decide to stick with .22LR, again and again. </div></div>
Well, that and I can get Wolf Match for $6 a box.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And I goofed about subsonics, assuming we were dealing with .22LR. Personally, it's issues like this that helped me decide to stick with .22LR, again and again. </div></div>
Well, that and I can get Wolf Match for $6 a box.
Re: Boyds stock inaccurate at 100
Yeah the 17 is SS until about 400 yards I believe. Thanks for the tip on the paralax. I'll have to check that out next time I'm out. Good info.
Yeah the 17 is SS until about 400 yards I believe. Thanks for the tip on the paralax. I'll have to check that out next time I'm out. Good info.
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