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Brand loyalty. Bias opinions.

Chris777

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Minuteman
May 9, 2017
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California
I have a question for some of you. Do you have brand loyalty to certain types of shooting equipment or anything else?

I just was told by a buddy who loves Bushnell that Vortex is crap and has a "History of not holding zero" based on a scope he saw come into a shop he worked at maybe ten or so years ago.

I personally like to do research on anything I want to buy to see exactly where my money is going and am willing to give most brands a fighting chance. What is your opinions on the matter?
 
Bushnell and Vortex are both good. There's a search bar that will help you out, just don't buy a $450 dollar vortex and expect it to match up with at $1400 Bushnell.
That is pretty close to my respons to his comment. A lot of companies offer cheaper optics but insisting the entire line of products are garbage because of one you saw fail and be it an older model from a decade ago is very flawed logic as far as I am concerned.
 
I make a habit of don’t listen to your buddies in not much of anything unless you see them in action or have similar interest as you.

I have buddies who say they are gun guys and have lots of guns but when you look in their safe you realize it’s a bunch of crap.

Then I have buddies who actually know what they are talking about and you listen to. They are in much less quantity.
 
That’s what I see typically. People buy a cheaper cost scope and then expect it to perform like the higher end models from the same company. Then they complain because the glass is not as clear or tracking properly.
I shoot for Vortex as of the past 2-yrs, but have ran their Razor Gen 2 since it came out. It has been a great scope for me.
 
I make a habit of don’t listen to your buddies in not much of anything unless you see them in action or have similar interest as you.

I have buddies who say they are gun guys and have lots of guns but when you look in their safe you realize it’s a bunch of crap.

Then I have buddies who actually know what they are talking about and you listen to. They are in much less quantity.
I feel you on that. I have a weird obsession with optics. I read as much as I can on different brands and experiences with said equipment from top shooters, reviewers and regular folk alike. I admit I don't have a ton of experience with a lot of different brands but to say that other shooters experiences are wrong because of a personal feeling you have towards a company is weird to me.
 
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That’s what I see typically. People buy a cheaper cost scope and then expect it to perform like the higher end models from the same company. Then they complain because the glass is not as clear or tracking properly.
I shoot for Vortex as of the past 2-yrs, but have ran their Razor Gen 2 since it came out. It has been a great scope for me.
I just ordered a Razor Gen 2 yesterday. I am very much looking forward to getting my hands on it.
 
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It's not so much the company that drives my decision . It's the fan boys. Glock, 6.5cm,Vortex, Iphones and Nike shoes to name a few. As I am sure these are all good products......the one's who own them cause me to never want one. But I am this way with everything.....normal I'm not.....and know it
This same reason is why I am not a Raider fan.
 
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There's only one company that's earned my automatic loyalty: Honda Motor Company

They've earned it through performance that I've seen first hand as an owner for over a decade and by working for one of their suppliers for five years.

Everything else I take on a case by case basis
 
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I never trust any opinion that has been bought and paid for. That specifically includes jersey wearers.

Whenever people look to others on opinions on equipment, they need to also understand what position that person is coming from and what their own bias' may be which will effect their opinion of said product.

A person who shoots a lot and pays full price for all their own gear will have much more credibility with me then a sponsored PRS shooter. However, they will also be effected by their own bias', which would behoove a person to pay attention to, to see if it is blinding their purchases in some form.

PRS shooters jump around from sponsor to sponsor, every year spewing the same old rhetoric bullshit on social media about how "Brand 'X' is the best and I couldn't have placed in X spot without it, this gun is a 'hammer', blah blah blah", when last year they said the exact same thing about Brand 'A' action. It really waters down their credibility, and a lot do it. I'm surprised the manufacturers put up with all the rhetoric and pandering, it really waters down the credibility of the people representing their products.

Needless to say, I don't really pay much attention to the sponsored shooters when I make my gear decisions.

I also avoid the "fanboi's". Easily spotted, spewing rhetoric without providing any qualitative and quantitative descriptions and explanations of why their chosen product is better then others. Commonly their input/replies will be 10 words or shorter. See the Impact action thread for classic "fanboi'ism" in full force. Facebook is horrible for this as well, a big rhetorical echo chamber.

There's lots of bullshit to wade through out there, but it can be easy to navigate past once you know what to look for.
 
I've had brand loyalty toward McMillan and Savage since around 2001, based on their generous support with the 2001 SH Ghost Dancer Rifle Project. That kind of support deserves loyalty. The site was just getting started, and we were winging it with a site rifle project.

Their response was beyond expectations.

And I think they make great products too, given their various niches in the market. For what they cost, and their intended markets, they are worth their prices.

I get some disagreement from folks who enjoy the top shelf products, and their criticisms are valid from their standpoint. They pay top dollar, expect top performance, and they get as close to perfection as money can buy. That's a good thing, great even.

I do projects based on my same old goal of getting as much for as little money as I can manage. I've been a 'poor' and being called that doesn't raise my hackles; it's an honest assessment. But not all of us can be rich, and abundant cash should not be a qualification for seeking to improve one's shooting abilities.

The shooter who's taking on the best should use the best. No argument. But the folks who inhabit that niche are far from the majority of us here. I do what I do for the benefit of the rest.

When I do it, I use multiple examples of a given implement whenever that's possible/affordable. I put some miles on the stuff, not just until the 'new' wears off, but sometimes until the paint wears off. I don't recommend things that I am unsure about whether they will come back to haunt me, where I can.

It's the best I can do, and perfection is out of my price range.

Greg
 
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I research heavy before buying anything over, say, $100. Gun stuff, ammo, power tools, vehicles, and home electronics all get searched. Especially if its a product I have little experience with.

I try to be very brand loyal with companies that Ive had good luck with. Samsung hone electronics for example. If it works, I see no need to change unless Im just wanting to try something new or unhappy with it for some reason.

I run my own equipment as a law enforcement sniper. I chose a Ruger Precision Rifle. I know there are other, better, more accurate rifles out there but it gave me a little more money to drop on a Nightforce ATACR. Not having any firsthand experience on either, I researched heavy. In both of these examples, they seem to be well backed, great pedigrees of history, and seemed the best choices for me.

Im a firm believer that for every positive review I can find online, I can find one saying the exact opposite. I tend to weigh more from forums like this where generally real people post real experiences. Yes, you can get the troll that tries to bash a product because he has an axe to grind. So I try to weigh anything carefully.

Its kind of like golf clubs. To an everyday user, will Callaway be THAT much better than Ping? With my skill level, I doubt I'd see much if any between the two. A pro on tour would, but not me. I think theres a lot of similarity here. Most people posting here may not be able to see much difference between a Leupold, Vortex, or Nightforce. Not because of product differences but because of their personal skill level and their personal experience level.

We all have to start somewhere and when we drop a few thousand dollars on anything, we never want to hear that my brand I chose doesn't measure up. If someone tells me my RPR sucks and NF isn't the best choice, they may be right, but both have been perfect for me, my skill levels, and my needs.

To me, never deal in absolutes. Id never bash another guy's choice until he tries to say his Buddly Quigley is top shelf.
 
I just ordered a Razor Gen 2 yesterday. I am very much looking forward to getting my hands on it.

You'll love it, Ive got one. Not S&B or Hensoldt but a damn nice scope.

Brand loyalty?:

Milwaukee tools.

Stihl tools

Colt pistols (though I have others)

Schmidt and Bender scopes though being a 'poor' I dont own one.

Not a mechanic, thank God, but if I were: Snap On.
 
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I think AI guys are the most bias. I have been looking to purchase a used one myself but I am worried it will turn me into an asshole too. Kinda nervous about that. :sneaky:

I think AI's are great rifles, but the rhetoric spewed about them being "indestructible" gets pretty annoying.

Like anything, it can and will fail. I've seen a few AI's go down in matches. You would think that with all the rhetoric about their indestructibility that they would survive a direct hit from a fusion bomb. It's a bit overblown.

It's sometimes hard to have conversations about AI's on here, as some people are so passionate about them that they perceive any constructive criticism of their chosen brand as pure blasphemy.
 
I think AI guys are the most bias. I have been looking to purchase a used one myself but I am worried it will turn me into an asshole too. Kinda nervous about that. :sneaky:
What if they shoot AI and H&K, all while driving an Audi to the range? I swear, I think they might have a Louis Vuitton range bag as well.

Never mind me, I’ll go be poor somewhere else.

Fags...
 
Bias is a naturally occurring thing for most of us in one form or fashion. I will listen to opinions and experiences but they are not the do all, end all for me. They might expand what I am researching but I make my choices based on a list of things I think are important.
 
Ugh, tell me about it. The worst offenders are: ford , jeep and Milwaukee. You'll know you’re in for it when its a guy is both. Fuck i know a few. Infuriating bunch of retards...
 
There's only one company that's earned my automatic loyalty: Honda Motor Company

They've earned it through performance that I've seen first hand as an owner for over a decade and by working for one of their suppliers for five years.

Everything else I take on a case by case basis
I drive a 90 civic with 385K and still going strong!everyone laughs at me but its paid for and it get great gas milage! I love hondas!
 
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I think AI's are great rifles, but the rhetoric spewed about them being "indestructible" gets pretty annoying.

Like anything, it can and will fail. I've seen a few AI's go down in matches. You would think that with all the rhetoric about their indestructibility that they would survive a direct hit from a fusion bomb. It's a bit overblown.

It's sometimes hard to have conversations about AI's on here, as some people are so passionate about them that they perceive any constructive criticism of their chosen brand as pure blasphemy.


I posted how my AI went down and of course some people said it was my fault .... ridiculous they even blamed some other guy in the thread for damaging his firing pin, He was trying to say AI took care of him when it was damaged during shipping, but somehow they didnt read his post and started blaming him for damaging the firing pin??
 
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Can't be me, he said AI.

Everyone knows I don't smoke crack and therefore have an MRAD.

@Redmanss needs a GBPSE shirt.

@Bender
I'll admit, you were on my mind when I said H&K, it was a poor's bashing comment after all. I'll also admit, H&K are also some of the finest damn weapons I've ever run. Alas, I only have Glock and Seekins type money for my semi rigs.

Now for the Audi drivers, I think they make buyers sign a commitment to drive like a douche at the dealership.

One of these days, me and Bender will actually link up and have a poor's only day. Us and our old clunkers, blasting prairie dogs with Black Hills blue box and using our hoods for shooting rests. Unfortunately, we're poor and have to keep working for a living so it gets perpetually kicked down the road.
 
I'll admit, you were on my mind when I said H&K, it was a poor's bashing comment after all. I'll also admit, H&K are also some of the finest damn weapons I've ever run. Alas, I only have Glock and Seekins type money for my semi rigs.

Now for the Audi drivers, I think they make buyers sign a commitment to drive like a douche at the dealership.

One of these days, me and Bender will actually link up and have a poor's only day. Us and our old clunkers, blasting prairie dogs with Black Hills blue box and using our hoods for shooting rests. Unfortunately, we're poor and have to keep working for a living so it gets perpetually kicked down the road.

im looking to go shoot my top secret spot one of these weekends. Let me know what Saturday!
 
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Everyone has their faves...One would have to be a reviewer of guns or related equipment; or terribly rich to have invested on every type and used it/them to have some idea which is the best. Even then, what works for one person may not necessarily work for another!
 
I drive a 90 civic with 385K and still going strong!everyone laughs at me but its paid for and it get great gas milage! I love hondas!
For 10 years I drove a Fit, first as a second car to my truck then as my only car. 6 weeks ago I loaned it, with over 238,000 miles, to my daughter and got myself this
Accord 2.jpg


Accord inside.jpg
 
I would say that I am sorta brand loyal. If I have had good luck with the companies product I will go back to their stuff.
Every company will put out a bad product and how they deal with it is what makes the company. That's what earns brand loyalty.
If they have a product that fits your requirement at a reasonable price. Why not. If they don't. Then you try another companies product.
 
This same reason is why I am not a Raider fan.

im looking to go shoot my top secret spot one of these weekends. Let me know what Saturday!



So I guess I am not invited because I run an ai and because I'm a raider fan eh @Bender lol...


I think I need to head over to the Audi dealership... Just talking to some of you is making me feel like I was just forced to walk into walmart

Ai owners be like...

tenor (6).gif
 
What if they shoot AI and H&K, all while driving an Audi to the range? I swear, I think they might have a Louis Vuitton range bag as well.

Never mind me, I’ll go be poor somewhere else.

Fags...

I shoot AI and H&K but you wouldn't catch me dead in an Audi.... Mercedes and BMW would be nice - but who cares? All my vehicles are WAY past 100k miles. I can drive a total piece of crap to the range but its all top notch once I arrive!! Priorities, priorities.

and oh, by the way, I like pussy...
 
I shoot AI and H&K but you wouldn't catch me dead in an Audi.... Mercedes and BMW would be nice - but who cares? All my vehicles are WAY past 100k miles. I can drive a total piece of crap to the range but its all top notch once I arrive!! Priorities, priorities.

and oh, by the way, I like pussy...
I drive trucks, have my own range, and pussy likes me. I’m a Sako shooter.

9421A480-6E50-4A20-8A86-5A32DFB75324.jpeg
 
confirmation bias

i tend to reinforce confidence in my own purchases by supporting or repeating opinions that my shit is tactical af, while dismissing anything that supports the idea that i bought the wrong fucking scope (or whatever). 😇
 
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