I have a watch with tiritium and its the same, completely useless until dark.
Rifle Scopes Browe BCO vs. ACOG
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I have a watch with tiritium and its the same, completely useless until dark.
Tritium has a half life of 12.3 years, just had to replace the sites on my W.German 226.
One is brand new, the MK6 has it's own set of issues and the fact it costs $3k for fucking illumination and the Razor is a Heavy SOB with shitty reticles that is still a suspect vortex optic.
Something tells me you were never in the military as you have no idea what durable actually means. Truck to range and back to safe is not exactly what most have to go through.
The whole point of a 1-X is to be able to use it as a red dot/cqb sight and then being able to get some magnification for Target ID, surveillance, and engaging small target and shit at distance. Without illumination, its already failed. This is why the Fiber is crucial on the ACOGS.
Jihadists don't tend to stand up giving you a nice clean 100m silhouette for you to take time to get your sight picture. Well those that did, died about 10 years ago. The ones still around tend to be the smarter ones.
The reticle options on the Vortex rock and yes it's heavy but durable. The mark 6 1 to 6 has passed military testing and is also a good choice as many other low power variables. They are the ultimate
Because they are far far more versatile than any 20 plus year old obsolete fixed power optic.
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Because they are far far more versatile than any 20 plus year old obsolete fixed power optic.
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Holy shit are there some drama queens around here... It's like the OP asked which Justin is hotter, Bieber or Timberlake and you women are bickering to high hell for your favorite.
OP, what exactly are you looking to do with this optic? This argument is useless without your application, and unless I completely missed it you haven't stated that.
And those with a clue that are worried about needing to be able to shoot when there are no batteries left available or tritium has expired are training to shoot with iron sights. The rest of you might want to look into that.
OP, what exactly are you looking to do with this optic? This argument is useless without your application, and unless I completely missed it you haven't stated that.
And those with a clue that are worried about needing to be able to shoot when there are no batteries left available or tritium has expired are training to shoot with iron sights. The rest of you might want to look into that.
They don't do it for free I have had two friends find that out personally and they are both LEO's as well.
I doubt any government agencies are going to use BCO'S for a few reasons. 1. its old technology just like the ACOG and number 2 those that want the old technology already have ACOGS. When people buy new optics they generally are not ACOGS anymore.
Pat
Something tells me you only think those in the military are the only ones who know anything when in reality that is quite false. While I have respect for those that have served in the armed forces they do not hold a monopoly on all experience related to firearms and optics. Lots of other people such as LEO's, competitive shooters, put their gear through hell as well. Also there are plenty of good three gun shooters who can beat your ass any day of the week with scopes that have no illumination what so ever. I prefer illumination myself but its not required to make good fast hits.
Pat
Holy angry-little-person drama, Batman!!!! WTF is going on in this thread? I read some of the Herp - derp but not all.
In regards to ta31 versus the bco, are the eye reliefs the same? Was curious because if I recall the idea behind the eye relief on the 4x acogs was to keep it simple in that all a shooter had to do is put his nose on/near the charging handle to get the right eye relief provided the optic was in the proper position. My understanding was it was deliberate.
In regards to ta31 versus the bco, are the eye reliefs the same? Was curious because if I recall the idea behind the eye relief on the 4x acogs was to keep it simple in that all a shooter had to do is put his nose on/near the charging handle to get the right eye relief provided the optic was in the proper position. My understanding was it was deliberate.
The closer eye relief gives it the larger FOV. It's a trade off that on the battlefield is more advantage than disadvantage. That's why a lot of military love them and a lot of sport shooters hate them. Think situational awareness necessities.
And anyone that really wants a battery/LED version has a Trijicon option as well: https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product2.php?mid=4 x 32 LED
And anyone that really wants a battery/LED version has a Trijicon option as well: https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product2.php?mid=4 x 32 LED
I don't hate ACOGS I have had a couple of TA 31's as well as a few TA 33's Never owned a TA 11 but I have looked through them and they are nice. The TA 31's are my least favorite due to the close eye relief they are slower to get on target with quickly from a low ready or slung position. They do have good glass for what they are. The TA 33 is my favorite ACOG due to its light weight and increased eye relief. Its a good optic on a light weight build. However the reason I moved aware from ACOGS is similar for the reason I have moved away from red dots as primary sights on all but SBR type guns. They limit what you can do compared to a good low power variable. They had their time as the best combat optics but that time has passed. We are in the 21st century now and we have better options. Just like fixed 10x scopes are no longer the best thing going for sniping despite their popularity in the past with the military.
Fixed magnification optics still have their place, for both durability and simplicity and often times clarity as well. I have been issued or own a wide variety of optics (including the Mark 6 and Razor II you spoke of earlier) and know well what's out there, yet I still say they have their place.
It's obvious the OP wants a fixed optic and has specifically stated as much, this is thread drift yet again. I still want to know what the OP wants to do with this optic so at least someone can give informed advice versus this irrelevant fanboy Ford vs. Chevy bullshit that the previous 100+ posts were.
It's obvious the OP wants a fixed optic and has specifically stated as much, this is thread drift yet again. I still want to know what the OP wants to do with this optic so at least someone can give informed advice versus this irrelevant fanboy Ford vs. Chevy bullshit that the previous 100+ posts were.
First of all that is hilarious and spot on!
Secondly I thought I mentioned but may have forgot lol. But will be shooting from 50-400 occasionally and rarely under 50. I've had the gun for a few years and have used nothing but irons so I'm good on that part
I believe they are the same or similar.
[MENTION=41860]Redmanss[/MENTION] shooting will be between 50-400 yards and rarely less than 50
If your targets aren't man-sized silhouettes, you're going to want more than 4x magnification. I'd recommend taking a serious look at the NF 2.5-10x32.
They usually are, and teh 400 yard one at the range is a decent sized animal looking target
The ACOG (and similar) are great scopes for hunting and shooting 1/2 IPSC and larger targets out to those distances, so it would do you well. It's simple, durable, and dependable, that's for sure. I use an ACOG on my truck gun in personal application because I know when I need it, it will work and I know it will serve me quite well within the ranges I will ever "need" the rifle to perform.
But when I'm shooting targets I like to push the limits. We all do. That's why I say to seriously consider something with more magnification. I recommend the NF simply because they flat out work and are tough as most anything out there.
But when I'm shooting targets I like to push the limits. We all do. That's why I say to seriously consider something with more magnification. I recommend the NF simply because they flat out work and are tough as most anything out there.
Thank you for your recommendations! I will look into the NF
Which ACOG is on your work truck?
That's like preferring a Harbor Freight Torque Wrench over a Snap On... yikes!
I'll give a look at both! I still have a whil to save up for lol
I guess I wasn't clear enough above. My work rifle has an Aimpoint, you take what you get in the contracting world. My personal rifle at home that hits the trails with me has a TA-01NSN on it. It wasn't exactly my first choice, was my buddy's Iraq scope I bought from him when he was hard up for money, and since he's no longer with us I will never sell that scope. It got him out of a couple nasty ambushes in the early years of the war and I'll never forget when he told me "Best Christmas ever, Santa got me an L-Shaped ambush and four confirmed". It's nice and accurate but I like the chevron reticle/BAC capable ACOGs more for <300yd shooting.
Sub 10x scopes is the one category I prefer SFP. I've never bought Nightforce for the "glass", I've bought it for the durability and accuracy. Good for those that have had success with them, but when I stop seeing regular "My PST broke again" threads, I'll entertain them as an option. Divorces and NF cost more because they're worth it.
Ah sorry for the mix up there.
Glass means dick when your optic spends 4 out of 12 months a year at the factory getting the "Best Warranty in the Industry"
For someone who is a self anoined Firearms Instructor, LE Expert, and pretends to talk with authority on the subject...... you seem to not really get it.
People who have to rely on an optic to potentialy save their/another's life, or not ruin a $10K hunting trip, or any other number of scenarios......... know this.
IOR has GREAT glass too, which is why you see so many experineced shooters running them...............
Vortex dominates the competition circuit and when one does go down its replaced or fixed fast. You are a self appointed troll and your doing well in that roll. The way you talk I doubt you have any real world experience out side of the Internet.
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Wow. Based on average turn around times at Vortex, you're saying someone would actually send in their Razor scope 10-15x in a single year. That might be a bit of an exaggeration... While there may be a relatively high number of Vortex products taking advantage of the warranty (still a very low overall percentage given their market share), I'd be willing to bet that the number of those getting sent back more than once or twice is infinitesimal. And once the issue is resolved, it's usually fixed for good, so unless you only keep stuff for a year, implying that it will have a lifetime 33% downtime isn't even close to true.
Oh that's cute.......when it fails at your gun game you can call a timeout a go get a spare.
They are damn good at replacing them, since they get a ton of practice and there is so much profit built into the product they can replace it 5 times and still come out in the black.
Wish I could have called a timout in the middle of an ambush or firefight to change the variables.
One is a range toy and the other is a combat proven.
Or, you could buy quality, and reduce the chance of every having to send it out for warranty work.
Addede benefit is that It probally wont fail you when you need it the most.
I know Vortex dominates the for sale section on here. Must be guys getting rid of their Vortex scopes, to upgrade to more vortex scopes.
Cool story, tell that to the thousands of other owners that have problems.
Once again, you must be a special little snowflake in your own little world.
Good luck finding thousands of owners with problems. You are the one living in a strange reality. If they sucked so bad they would not be used so much by the pros in competition.
Pat
It must be all the SEAL teams, CAG and Army SF who are dumping their Nightforce's for Vortex........ Probably going to trade in those piece of shit S&B's for the new Gen 2 HD.
That way when it breaks, they can still bludgeon someone with the 5 pound paper weights.
That way when it breaks, they can still bludgeon someone with the 5 pound paper weights.
I could care less what the SEALS are issued by the Government. I care more about what a champion shooter chooses to buy with his own money. I am not a fan boy like you. The Razor Gen 2's are all the talk right now because they are AWESOME. Vortex listens to its customers unlike some other companies.
Pat
Pat
Here is a hint..... Certain units can buy/use WHATEVER they want.
Vortex wouldn't survive even the most mild military testing.
Bushnell makes a superior scope at almost half the price. The 5-20 is a good optic and a decent price, but is heavy as fuck and has a ton of completion in that price range.
You seem to think anyone gives a shit about some stupid gun game or how something works on a pretty little square range when conditions are favorable. I could make a simmons look good at the range.
Vortex wouldn't survive even the most mild military testing.
Bushnell makes a superior scope at almost half the price. The 5-20 is a good optic and a decent price, but is heavy as fuck and has a ton of completion in that price range.
You seem to think anyone gives a shit about some stupid gun game or how something works on a pretty little square range when conditions are favorable. I could make a simmons look good at the range.
I don't care what some elite unit wants or needs. I care about what I want or need. I am not a bootlicker like you seem to be. Vortex is thought well of by some very well respected people in the shooting community. Those stupid gun games are where gear is tested and developed and then later makes it to the Military and LEO world. We we shooting optics on our pistols well before tactical teddies were. We were running off set red dots in three gun well before anyone in a uniform decided to try it. Gun games are a great testing ground for gear and gear concepts. Also people shooting those gun games are the best in the world PERIOD at pulling a trigger and making hits. Far better than anyone in the most elite unit. The best shooters in the military are not in the SEALS or DELTA they are in the AMU. Also don't know how many matches you have dared try I doubt many as your ego probably could not handle the beating. But matches are not always held in perfect weather. We slam guns into barrels run over and around barricades etc. Its not a day at the beach.
Pat
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Yea it sounds really rough, your safe queen could get a scratch or scuff....
Neither optic is all that great. For all the talk of reliability, I have seen more than a few go down, or mounts that were crooked.
The reticle isn't as good as it could be. It would really benefit from having wind holds. Past 300 yards you end up having to hold into blank space.
A variable power riflescope is a more versatile option for most people.
The reticle isn't as good as it could be. It would really benefit from having wind holds. Past 300 yards you end up having to hold into blank space.
A variable power riflescope is a more versatile option for most people.
lol safequeen. I shoot approximately 15000 rounds a year. But you got me beat on hours logged in on call of duty. Lol
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I might buy that except that the Vortex "failures" that I've heard about are primarily debris inside the scopes and illumination "bleeding," not catastrophic failures. Also, you seem to be lumping PST warranty issues with the Razors. "Thousands" of Razor fails? RIIIIGHT.
FWIW, (in keeping with the thread), I recently replaced my TA11 with a PST 2.5-10x32 and feel like (for my purposes) it was a serious upgrade. The FFP is probably not necessary, but I like the consistency with my other scopes. I certainly wouldn't complain about a Nightforce with the same mag, but there's a substantial price difference.
If my primary use was rapid acquisition of man sized targets between 100-200 yards, the ACOG would have been fine. (Well, aside from the fact that its line of sight was way too high for me). I never liked the brightness of the fiber optic in daylight either. WAY too bright. I wanted something more versatile, and I find the Vortex better at both shorter and longer distances. For precision it's no contest either. If I wanted something for man sized targets from 0-200 yards, I'd take an Aimpoint non magnified red dot over the ACOG any day.
If you have issues with the brightness of the fiber optic, you can just slap some 100mph tape on it leaving just a bit of it uncovered, it's an easy fix for it. Pretty sure most guys ran with it like that.
When you're so OCD that you alphabetize it, yeah...
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