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Night Vision Budget helmet and mounting system

C

Creature

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 23, 2007
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I've tried the search function and was unable to find anything in regards to the particular question.

I'm needing to get a budget helmet/mount setup for a PVS-14 and wanted to get your guys' opinion. My budget is around $200-$300

I'm looking at the Pro-Tec BRAVO Half Shell Helmet with a OPS-core VAS shroud for $117. I don't need an armor helmet right now. For the mounting system I was thinking about just getting a RHINO mount and J-arm off of Ebay for around $70, like this:

Very Nice Norotos Military Army NVG Night Vision Helmet Mount J Arm Rhino USGI | eBay

What do you guys think about a setup like this? Are there better options in this price range I should be pursuing? I plan to upgrade to the nice stuff down the road but right now just need a basic rig. I would really appreciate your opinions guys.
 
Thanks Vic. The Tac OPS helmet I mentioned above was from your site. It was the Half Shell Helmet though and I think was about $10 more($117 with shroud). It just looked like it might be less cumbersome. I really like the OPS core helmet, might have to do some scrapping and see if I can get it. Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.
 
I am not a fan of the BASE jump helmet. It is a molded plastic helmet and isn't very rigid, meaning it flexes if you push in on its sides and IMO has a cheap feel to it compared to the carbon model. I am skeptical of the molded in NVG mount lasting and or the plastic deforming over time from use. In my military based experiences , I have seen that you can get wobble and movement with metal NVG parts over time and wear so I am leery of the semisoft molded in plastic shroud's long term durability.

Also worth noting is that the opscore carbon helmet is an exact copy of the older Protec half shell skateboard helmet. The only notable difference is in the forehead area where they flattened a bit of the curve to accommodate the NVG shroud. Incidentally, we used to use the Protec half shells with an NVG mount on them before OpsCore came out with their line.

with that said,I would recommend the Bravo with a Ops Core shroud bolted on in lieu of the molded in BASE jump.
 
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I already have a USGI Kevlar helmet(PASGT I think). It has one screw hole in the front. What all would I need to get it mounted on that? Would it work okay or are they super uncomfortable?

This is the kind I have:

Kevlar Helmet Small | eBay
 
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I have a different setup, but I'm considering the Pro-tec helmet for just out and about. It's lighter and less military looking. I'd definitely get that and the VAS shroud over some plastic built in mount. I use the VAS shroud on my Crye Airframe helmet, it's really nice and solid.

$70 for Rhino and J-arm in good shape isn't a bad deal really. You'll certainly want to use bungees to keep it all from wobbling, and tie it down good.

If that Rhino and J-arm turn out to be junk, I have one of each I don't use, the J-arm is brand new and the Rhino recently repaired (rivets replaced with bolts) and I'd be willing to trade, sell or partial trade them off, just PM. I'll never use those mounts.

When you can afford it, any of the dovetail mounts are gonna be better, and the better the mount the happier you'll be. I went with the INVG, big and bulky, yeah, but it folds out of the way vertically and has no J-arm, tons of adjustment and almost no wobble. I love it. $70 isn't bad to get started, but don't skimp and get the best mount when you can.

TNVC, btw, is all I deal with. After being given the run around by Crye over a $900 helmet and having TNVC step in and fix that, and after they picked me a great NV set, I'm just sold on their CS. They also don't try on selling you up, they just try to help you out and answer questions. I'd give them a call and they can help you a lot with this.

Good luck.
 
Papa Zero Three said:
I am not a fan of the BASE jump helmet. It is a molded plastic helmet and isn't very rigid, meaning it flexes if you push in on its sides and IMO has a cheap feel to it compared to the carbon model. I am skeptical of the molded in NVG mount lasting and or the plastic deforming over time from use. In my military based experiences , I have seen that you can get wobble and movement with metal NVG parts over time and wear so I am leery of the semisoft molded in plastic shroud's long term durability.

Also worth noting is that the opscore carbon helmet is an exact copy of the older Protec half shell skateboard helmet. The only notable difference is in the forehead area where they flattened a bit of the curve to accommodate the NVG shroud. Incidentally, we used to use the Protec half shells with an NVG mount on them before OpsCore came out with their line.

with that said,I would recommend the Bravo with a Ops Core shroud bolted on in lieu of the molded in BASE jump.
Click to expand...

OP was talking about cheaper alternatives and if Mil applications NON B, I would recommend the Team Wendy Carbon. The Base Jump works for the price and IMHO gives better stability especially if counter weighted over the foamy and loose compression foam pads of the Bravo's that don't do well with excessive sweating, they can get unstable if one is on the run or moving very quickly in my experiences. I also like the chin strap and nape adjustments on the OPS Base Jump and TW over the Bravo's in many ways that adds to helmet (lack of excess) movement stability.

Just my humble opinion they all have some gains and down falls, but I personally like the TW carbon the best thus far for a non B melon cover BUT they didn't meet the OP's price point. :)

Vic
 
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Victor-TNVC said:
OP was talking about cheaper alternatives and if Mil applications NON B, I would recommend the Team Wendy Carbon. The Base Jump works for the price and IMHO gives better stability especially if counter weighted over the foamy and loose compression foam pads of the Bravo's that don't do well with excessive sweating, they can get unstable if one is on the run or moving very quickly in my experiences. I also like the chin strap and nape adjustments on the OPS Base Jump and TW over the Bravo's in many ways that adds to helmet (lack of excess) movement stability.

Just my humble opinion they all have some gains and down falls, but I personally like the TW carbon the best thus far for a non B melon cover BUT they didn't meet the OP's price point. :)

Vic
Click to expand...


I don't disagree with any of your points, they are spot on. However, I too was trying to stay with the 2 options the OP listed. The TW helmet is nice and the adjustable liner system makes for a more stable platform as well as comfortable helmet to wear for long periods of time.
 
Copy Brother. Clasky says says when he uses the Team Wendy Air system, it's like putting ones head in a Vagina! Not sure I can ever speak from experience on that one, but hey to each their own I guess! :D

It was very good to see the PT-Alpha's evolve into the newest Bravo's which included much better foam (firmer pads) and Velcro that does not peel with heat among a few other improvements.

Also early on molds of the Ops Base Jumps did have a few lips of the lower shroud that had some issues with form. We have not seen that issue in a long while nowadays.
 
Ops core plastic molded bs here and it works good. If I'm gonna head to war I'm throwing it in the trash tho. You can tell its not a tank but that's not what I wanted cause tanks are heavy. It doesn't flex enough to matter at all. The only thing that bothers me is the wobble from the j arm and rhino mount. Just seems like any minute it's gonna fall off but it hasn't yet.

Jay
 
I have a PASGT helmet already. Would it be worth setting that up? It has one hole with a screw in it in the front. Would I just need the RHINO mount and J-arm with that?
 
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Creature said:
I have a PASGT helmet already. Would it be worth setting that up? It has one hole with a screw in it in the front. Would I just need the RHINO mount and J-arm with that?
Click to expand...

You would have to drill 2 more holes in it to use the Ops Core shroud, buy a shroud ($100+) and then buy a better suspension system which is another $100 + investment. Otherwise the helmet will flop all over your head. Seeing how you can buy a better system for a few bucks more, I'd say don't bother.
 
You know you want a Crye Airframe.

But if you figure out what helmet and shroud you are going for and are wanting a USGI Rhino arm for your setup, send me an IM as I have one I don't use that I'll sell you for dirt cheap. Then you just need a generic J arm. Would rather someone use it.
 
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I've got the PT Alpha with VAS and the Ops Core Base Jump. Over 70 degrees out, Base Jump hands down. Under 50 degrees, either works fine, but the PT is warmer. As for the Rhino mount, evidently, there is a newer Norotos Rhino mount available-ish on eBay. See eBay #251316779669. It has a NSN of 5855-01-610-8704, has a vertical adjustment that the old one does not and a much better designed eye-relief adjustment that greatly reduces the side-to-side wobble. The newer version works in the VAS shroud no problem and is frankly, better all around. Get the newest J-arm you can find. The older Rhino (NSN 5855-01-610-8704) works but just isn't as user friendly as the newer version.
 
Papa Zero Three said:
I am not a fan of the BASE jump helmet. It is a molded plastic helmet and isn't very rigid, meaning it flexes if you push in on its sides and IMO has a cheap feel to it compared to the carbon model. I am skeptical of the molded in NVG mount lasting and or the plastic deforming over time from use.
Click to expand...

I have been using the molded in version FAST base jump for over a year now. It did get some wear on the contact mounting surface where the rhino horn snaps in. I just put some dense foam behind the plate and kept rolling. I use it a lot too. About 8 PVS14 lithium batteries worth so far. Needs to be broken in, but a decent light weight helmet.
 
Just a tip. I went with the protec because that's all my budget committee would allow. My suckretary (wife) says, "you're crippled, wtf do you need a helmet for?" and I'm like "well suckretary, I'm already half retarded, we wouldn't want to damage the other half would we?" she didn't seem to care, but she did give me $70 to buy the pro tec. Well, it is too flexible, but that can be improved. Take out the pads and mix a few tubes of JB weld. Make two beads from front to back down the inside of the helmet, then a couple that make an "x" from the inside center point. Put white paint down each bead of epoxy and place the pads back in. This will leave white lines on the pad, where you can re rive them with an exacto knife. Bam, stiffer, cheaper way to rock your night vision. However, I have since realized I could have just jacked some cash out of her purse and bought the helmet I wanted and would look a lot more awesome hobbling around in the dark, and setting up L-shaped ambushes with my children.
 
Delta4-3 said:
Just a tip. I went with the protec because that's all my budget committee would allow. My suckretary (wife) says, "you're crippled, wtf do you need a helmet for?" and I'm like "well suckretary, I'm already half retarded, we wouldn't want to damage the other half would we?" she didn't seem to care, but she did give me $70 to buy the pro tec. Well, it is too flexible, but that can be improved. Take out the pads and mix a few tubes of JB weld. Make two beads from front to back down the inside of the helmet, then a couple that make an "x" from the inside center point. Put white paint down each bead of epoxy and place the pads back in. This will leave white lines on the pad, where you can re rive them with an exacto knife. Bam, stiffer, cheaper way to rock your night vision. However, I have since realized I could have just jacked some cash out of her purse and bought the helmet I wanted and would look a lot more awesome hobbling around in the dark, and setting up L-shaped ambushes with my children.
Click to expand...

Lol, thanks for the info. I went with the protec from tnvc and have a rhino mount and j arm on the way. Thanks for all the help gents!
 
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Well thanks to you guys, especially TNVC and The German, I about have everything together for my helmet setup(except the helmet). I'm getting the helmet and Crimison Trace IR laser tomorrow and had a question. I notice there are bungee cords on the helmet. What part of the NOD/RHINO mount do you attach them to?

Thanks again everyone.
 
I notice there are bungee cords on the helmet. What part of the NOD/RHINO mount do you attach them to?

Thanks again everyone.
Click to expand...

Funny thing about the bungee cords is that "we" initially added them as a field expedient method to reduce NVG shake and wobble found in the system when used by ground guys, especially if you were using the aviation ANVIS9 goggles. Regardless of which NVD you were using, the mounts tended to have some play in them that caused them to wobble/shake when walking. It was also used as a "dummy cord" as it was not uncommon for the goggles to detach themselves from the mount unintentionally. This was even more of an issue where HALO operations were concerned. So when Ops Core came out with their helmet, they built the bungees in as part of end user request. What has happened since then however is the mounts have gotten better than they used to be quite a bit. Not all the play is reduced as parts do wear and SOP's have been developed, so they are still used today, if for anything, as a retention device.

So to answer your question, be it on bino goggles like 15's or a mono like a 14, there is typically a lanyard loop molded into the body of the NVD that may or may not be used to hold the devices lens covers. Typically what is done, is a gutted piece of 550 cord or a single strand from the 550 guts is used to create a very small loop using that lanyard hole. The bungee cord hooks are inserted into that small loop. On bino goggles, there will be one loop per side with one bungee going to each and on a mono goggle both hooks will go to the one loop if the set up allows or just one single hook can got to the loop as needed. If you are doing HALO ops or other events with high impact forces expected, masking tape is wrapped around the bungee hooks openings once they are attached to the loop on the NVD.
 
I've noticed that my helmet was a little front heavy. I started looking at counterweights and they seem to be pretty pricey for what they are. I cast lead handgun bullets and had a couple small ingots around. I stuck some heavy duty Velcro strips to it and bingo, counterweight. I would prefer to have it wrapped in camo though...

Have you guys made your own counterweights? If so what did you use? The one I'm using now works great and one their real good. It just sticks out a bit. I'll at least probably wrap with camo tape.
 
Creature said:
I've noticed that my helmet was a little front heavy. I started looking at counterweights and they seem to be pretty pricey for what they are. I cast lead handgun bullets and had a couple small ingots around. I stuck some heavy duty Velcro strips to it and bingo, counterweight. I would prefer to have it wrapped in camo though...

Have you guys made your own counterweights? If so what did you use? The one I'm using now works great and one their real good. It just sticks out a bit. I'll at least probably wrap with camo tape.
Click to expand...

Duck decoy weights work OK. Wrap them in 100 MPH tape and apply them to the back of the helmet in what ever creative manner is available to you.
 
For good cheap counter weight material . Pouch & Fill & shape with ( Flat, Wheal Balance, Lead strips )

sewed myself up Velcro attach/removable pouches to stick on back of helmet .
It takes the molded radius shape of helmet very well . It is segmented into 1/8th Oz. sections . & it's Easy to get .
-
image_zpse8d0c8a3.jpg

-
 
I took my helmet setup out for the first time last night. It worked great with the IR laser. It's a world of difference compared to using the monocular behind the Eotech. It was a full mon and everything was very bright. Unfortunately I got swarmed by mosquitoes by the river I was at and couldn't bear it for very long. I had never been around that many bugs in my life. Gonna have to figure out a way to fight them off when i hunt.

The counter balance weight I've been using is real straight foreword. It's just a flat block of lead that I had casted in a muffin pan. I only filled the cavity up 1/3 of the way. It works perfect. I did a few of them so I could get the weight right. I stuck some heavy duty Velcro tape to it and was GTG. Total cost: $2 max.

I was thinking shot would work real well as you could kind of mold it to the helmet and add/subtract until the weight is right. Lead shot is easy to find but if all else fails you could cut open a few cheap shotgun shells.



Here is my setup. I'm gonna wrap the block in camouflage soon:

 
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creature :
..." Unfortunately I got swarmed by mosquitoes by the river I was at and couldn't bear it for very long. I had never been around that many bugs in my life. Gonna have to figure out a way to fight them off when i hunt ".
-
Easy fix that helps is get a couple of those Camo Bow Hunters Veils, they have a circle cut-out for eyes & holder for bridge of nose .
there only a few bucks & just pull & drape over the head & put your helmet over the top . really helps when down by wetlands or backed against woods with the Mosquitoes .
.
 
HEY, those Thermacell really odor and noise free like advertised .??
Because I really got a spot that is filthy thick with coyote on a wetland by water treatment plant that ran me out of there in 20 minutes with wearing full sleeves, gloves & head veil . Winter is to sloppy wet out there & only time window to step in there is summer with clouds of mosquitoes breeding & starving .
 
They do have an odor, but if you get one with coverscent, they don't seem to spook deer or yotes. Ive slayed a lot of fur with one running.
 
Just a thought on a cheap counter weight would be wrist or ankle weights from a garage sale or goodwill type stores.
 
softcock said:
For good cheap counter weight material . Pouch & Fill & shape with ( Flat, Wheal Balance, Lead strips )

sewed myself up Velcro attach/removable pouches to stick on back of helmet .
It takes the molded radius shape of helmet very well . It is segmented into 1/8th Oz. sections . & it's Easy to get .
-
image_zpse8d0c8a3.jpg

-
Click to expand...

Nice setup.

Vic
 
Disturbed said:
They are not odor free but they are not bad. A lot better than being bitten by bugs
Click to expand...

That they're not....The Minister of Finance got nauseated and sick a bit from these. They do seem to work though except in EXTREME mosquito conditions. In those cases, Nuke em' from orbit, the only way to be sure" :D
 
Delta4-3 said:
Carry a thermacell.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, I might try one of these.

For now i dug out my bug net that covers my head/neck. Will just try to stay covered and hopefully that will work.

I have never been attacked by bugs as bad as i was last night. There was a lot of standing water around so it makes since. Can't wait till winter...
 
Hunting early bow season in Arkansas, I use a thermocell a lot. They work if the skeeters aren't in swarms. A buddy turned me onto Shannon's Bug Tamer a few years ago. Made of two layers of mesh. The inside mesh has holes about 1/4"x1/4" or a little bigger, but is about 1/4" thick. The outer layer is a fine mesh that lays on top of the tall inner mesh. Little bastards' peckers aren't long enough to hit skin. If you have swarms, this is the only thing I've ever come up with that absolutely works. Their jackets come with big hoods with a tuckable front veil. They also make a headnet that is a separate piece that is freaking awesome, as long as you don't have to anchor an arrow to your cheek while bow hunting. If you shop around, you can get the headnet for about $20 and the jacket for less than $50. The separate headnet is big enough to put over your entire helmet, and maybe run an extended 14 under it. I'll try to remember check this weekend. Oh, and their little mittens work great too.

http://www.bugtamer.com/classic.html

Carry on.
 
I got the bug situation under control now with the net that covers my head/neck and a thermacell.

What I am kind of having issues with is getting steady for shooting with the IR laser(when using the helmet). I missed a coyote the other night using it and it pissed me off to high hell(I don't usually miss). The lack of a cheek weld is messing with me. Is there any way to get a check weld? I was thinking about turning the rifle 90 degrees...

I've been using a monopod and while it holds the rifle pretty still I'm still have a little bit of an issue when actually firing.
 
Creature said:
I have a PASGT helmet already. Would it be worth setting that up? It has one hole with a screw in it in the front. Would I just need the RHINO mount and J-arm with that?
Click to expand...

I spent a big amount of time setting up a few PASGT Helments for a local PD. TNVC answered many questions and worked hard to help me finish the project.

This is my personal PASGT:

011_zps4b897978.jpg


I can tell you one thing: Wilcox does not supply a screw for thier PASGT shrouds as seen in photos across the web. I had to send in my helmet to them so they could figure it out. They eventually did mail the setup back with the correct screw and made me very happy.

I probably could have saved countless hours by just setting up a MICH/ACH but I had a PASGT already, and was setting up the local PD's anyway. It all fell into place and TNVC helped make it happen.

I also have the PT-Alpha and PT-Bravo Helmets. (Alpha has a Wilcox L4 Shroud and Lanyard, the Bravo has an OpsCore Shroud)

I personally like the feel and the look of the Alpha better, but the chinstrap and foam on the Bravo are much better.


If you're going cheap, just buy the Bravo and a good shroud. I prefer the L4 Wilcox shroud over the OPS, but I already had the ops laying around so I set it up.

As for ballast, I opted to sew a few Velcro strips on the back of my helmet cover and use the OSOE Ballast. Works well for my needs.

I added Velcro to the back of the Alpha (bravo already had some) to use the OSOE Ballast.

014_zpsc138a612.jpg
 
Creature said:
What I am kind of having issues with is getting steady for shooting with the IR laser(when using the helmet).... I've been using a monopod and while it holds the rifle pretty still I'm still have a little bit of an issue when actually firing.
Click to expand...

Shooting while aiming with just a laser, infrared or otherwise is just flat out foreign if you're used to optics or irons. Shooting with lasers is definitely not as easy as it seems- you know, put the dot on the target and boom. Practice. That is really the only advice I have. I guess if you're running a flat top, you could get cheek weld while wearing the helmet if you removed the optics. I typically run a AR pistol and shoot from the hip with the IR laser with a 2 point sling. Deadly on paper plates out to 100 easy. No, it didn't start off feeling natural. Practice.

Creature said:
I was thinking about turning the rifle 90 degrees...
Click to expand...
Well, whatever you do, don't turn it 90 degrees twice, even if you're wearing a ballistic helmet....
 
If you are more comfortable with a cheek weld, try rotating the rifle about 45 degrees, like you're using an offset sight when you set your gun up. Make adjustments to your gear to accommodate this set up until it feels comfortable.
 
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