Bugnut VS shouldered prefit

atepointer

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  • Nov 20, 2018
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    That was hilarious lesson learned and now have half a dozen new ones waiting to be swapped out. I cleaned it thoroughly during the 35 day suppressor saga. The brake cleaner is awesome for prolonging too. I had no idea you spent that much time on that barrel yesterday.....at $475 it doesn't owe me a thing after the way I treated it. On to the next one....soon I hope!
     
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    Mike Casselton

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  • Nov 25, 2007
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    Yeah, my back still hurts...
    Lying prone today didn't do me any favors. Neither did that 7-1/2# 7 Rem Mag.

    25 rounds out of it before I switched to the BR.

    That poor 8" at 800 got the snot knocked out of it though. 🙂
    I wrapped the 4" at 400 around the top bar. 🤣

    It still shoots very well, but I think the barrel is done.
     
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    MarinePMI

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  • Jun 3, 2010
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    I'll say what I want, where I want, and when I want to. Don't care if you like it or not.
    If you keep doing it to new members, you won't be for long. The rules and directives are clear; do NOT come down hard on the new members that just don't know any better. Eventually the community will know if that person is an askhole, and/or is just being a pain. Clearly, this new member is asking for advice because he's just starting out.

    Yeah, yeah, I know, advice off the internet from unknown people is not exactly the best path, but it may be all the guy has. So tone it down, eh?
     

    Im2bent

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  • Jun 30, 2020
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    So the elephant in the room is this, doesn't matter how good the barrel is (Hawk Hills) if the gunsmith fucks up the chamber job. Shouldered prefits should be a no brainer install. Yes you should double check with a go/no go gauge but once you know its good you can remove and install very fast and not worry. Personally I don't consider barrel nut barrels a "prefit" because you have to fit it. Every time you take it off and on you have to headspace it. Yes you can put witness marks but depending on number of barrels it can get messy. The barrel nut system is for actions that don't hold tolerances (heh) and therefore have to be headspaced indivually.
     
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    308pirate

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  • Apr 25, 2017
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    The barrel nut system is for actions that don't hold tolerances (heh) and therefore have to be headspaced indivually.
    Yet another one who doesn't understand what tolerances are or what they mean.
     

    MarinePMI

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  • Jun 3, 2010
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    Yet another one who doesn't understand what tolerances are or what they mean.
    Actually, he is correct. That was the whole point of the barrel nut system when Savage came up with it. It allowed tolerances on the receivers to vary, and yet still cheaply produce rifles that could be quickly set with minimum headspace tolerances, regardless of the action and barrel variations. They didn't have to chamber each specific barrel to a specific action. They could pre-chamber barrels (mass produce) within a much looser tolerance, and let the barrel nut set the barrel headspace to account for the various stacked tolerances between the two parts (well, three actually, if you count the bolt face).

    Pretty ingenious design actually.

    With today's CNC controlled machines, and the tolerances that they can hold, those variations are small enough that shouldered, pre chambered barrels and receivers can be made en mass, and not require individual fitting. So the barrel nut, on a modern made rifle receiver and barrel, is no longer required. Only older receivers (ala Remington 700 for example) need to have the barrel carefully chambered to match that receiver.
     
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    308pirate

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  • Apr 25, 2017
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    Actually, he is correct.


    He is confusing tolerances with variation.

    Tolerances are set by each manufacturer and no one knows what they are unless you have the OEM drawings in your hand. A tolerance is a modifier to a nominal or basic dimension and it defines how much the actual feature can vary from nominal before it's considered out of specification.

    Tolerances do not vary from part to part. The actual dimension of a feature varies, and depending on how much it deviates from nominal it might be within tolerance or it might not.

    You are correct about why the barrel nut was invented but my point is still the same, there's wholesale misunderstanding of dimensional variation, tolerances (both linear and geometric), and stack ups. A properly designed assembly doesn't care about tolerance stacking because it will still assemble and function regardless of where any of the dimensions in the assembly lie withing their tolerance allowance.
     
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    MarinePMI

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  • Jun 3, 2010
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    You know, part of having to deal with people on a daily basis, is understanding their intent, and not dissecting their literal words, over what they are attempting to convey conceptually.

    You might lower your stress and frustration a bit remembering that. Being right about the literal interpretation is great for negotiating contracts, and such, but not so great for open internet discussions. "Being right or correct", doesn't always mean that your are justified in your indignation. I get it, I work with a lot of engineers (hell, I am one). But, I've seen many an engineer that justified burning their own house down (and their careers) in the pursuit of "being right" over showing some moderate competency in the use of soft skills, to understand when "being right" isn't a hill worth dying on. A subtle correction in defined terms, while also stating (in the correct terms) what they are attempting to say, goes a long way to educating your fellow man, while also still demonstrating a firm and defined grasp of the topic. That gets respect, rather than the other path, which garners derision and contempt, regardless if you're correct or not.

    Take it for what it's worth.
     

    Lapuapalooza

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  • Dec 24, 2013
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    02FDA97F-6499-4FDE-A0B4-FF1BB8368B78.gif
     

    308pirate

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  • Apr 25, 2017
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    You know, part of having to deal with people on a daily basis, is understanding their intent, and not dissecting their literal words, over what they are attempting to convey conceptually.

    You might lower your stress and frustration a bit remembering that. Being right about the literal interpretation is great for negotiating contracts, and such, but not so great for open internet discussions. "Being right or correct", doesn't always mean that your are justified in your indignation. I get it, I work with a lot of engineers (hell, I am one). But, I've seen many an engineer that justified burning their own house down (and their careers) in the pursuit of "being right" over showing some moderate competency in the use of soft skills, to understand when "being right" isn't a hill worth dying on. A subtle correction in defined terms, while also stating (in the correct terms) what they are attempting to say, goes a long way to educating your fellow man, while also still demonstrating a firm and defined grasp of the topic. That gets respect, rather than the other path, which garners derision and contempt, regardless if you're correct or not.

    Take it for what it's worth.

    As I get older the less I give a fuck
     

    sled_mack

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    Oct 31, 2008
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    You know, part of having to deal with people on a daily basis, is understanding their intent, and not dissecting their literal words, over what they are attempting to convey conceptually.

    You might lower your stress and frustration a bit remembering that. Being right about the literal interpretation is great for negotiating contracts, and such, but not so great for open internet discussions. "Being right or correct", doesn't always mean that your are justified in your indignation. I get it, I work with a lot of engineers (hell, I am one). But, I've seen many an engineer that justified burning their own house down (and their careers) in the pursuit of "being right" over showing some moderate competency in the use of soft skills, to understand when "being right" isn't a hill worth dying on. A subtle correction in defined terms, while also stating (in the correct terms) what they are attempting to say, goes a long way to educating your fellow man, while also still demonstrating a firm and defined grasp of the topic. That gets respect, rather than the other path, which garners derision and contempt, regardless if you're correct or not.

    Take it for what it's worth.
    Being an engineer that transitioned into sales, I had a boss that told me to always remember there is a di betw being right and being dead right. Makes a difference if you want to build relationships and get sales.
     

    sled_mack

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    Oct 31, 2008
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    I’ve got 4 REM 700 rifles. 2 were custom built. One is a criterion rem nut, one is a bug nut. The bug nut looks a bit cleaner/sleeker than the criterion. I can’t tell the difference between them in terms of how well they shoot.

    If you have an action that can use shouldered prefits, I can’t think of a reason not to? Otherwise, no problem with barrel nut setups using quality barrels.