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Bugholes wrote:
Guys-
Our shooting community is growing in leaps and bounds. Parts are more readily available, politics are favorable, new shooters are getting in the game, and theres plenty of rifle comps as well. Ive struggled with keeping up with gunsmithing demand here a Southern Precision Rifles, and have lost plenty of work because I was unable to deliver fast enough. SPR has been exploring the merits of the Savage style barrel nut pre-fit system, and feel like it’s a good way to get quality parts and quality work in the hands of shooters quickly. Pre-fit barrels have significant benefits to a broad array of shooters:
I feel like theres a better way
Lots of guys don’t understand that with the savage nut you need to stick to the contours that enable the use of this nut, i.e. small shank varmint and small shank target. Lots of guys want Medium Palmas, M24s, Remington Varmints, etc. You can’t do that with the Savage nut, but with the BugNut, you can…
The BugNut
The BugNut was created to solve a few problems, and improve certain areas of the Savage pre-fit system. Ive been messing with this for some time and feel like this is a real world improvement over the traditional Savage nut system. This nut system mechanically holds and headspaces the barrel the same way the savage nut does. Detriments aimed to improve upon:
-barrel price is the same retail barrel price on Bugholes.com, whatever contour and brand you want
-pre-fit/gunsmithing expense:
-Bugnut wrench $50
The Bugholes.com website is not currently set up to enable these parts and services to be purchased online, so each transaction is handled individually by phone or email. Please see the following photos to help understand how these parts work.
Bighorn with a Medium Palma:
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i65.tinypic.com\/33w5e01.jpg"}[/IMG2]
Mausingfield with a Medium Palma:
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i66.tinypic.com\/2zzrnsp.jpg"}[/IMG2]
the wrench:
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i64.tinypic.com\/33n9bp5.jpg"}[/IMG2]
Guys-
Our shooting community is growing in leaps and bounds. Parts are more readily available, politics are favorable, new shooters are getting in the game, and theres plenty of rifle comps as well. Ive struggled with keeping up with gunsmithing demand here a Southern Precision Rifles, and have lost plenty of work because I was unable to deliver fast enough. SPR has been exploring the merits of the Savage style barrel nut pre-fit system, and feel like it’s a good way to get quality parts and quality work in the hands of shooters quickly. Pre-fit barrels have significant benefits to a broad array of shooters:
- Minimal down time (NO down time). You can get a replacement barrel without ever having to send in your action. Many reputable shops are 4-6 months for shouldered barrel installs
- Action does not need to be present, or never have been present to make an outstanding barrel
- Cost effective. Pre-fit labor cost less than shouldered barrels, you can get into a pre-fit barrel, with a nut and wrench, for less than the cost of a shouldered barrel. Tools are a one-time purchase and cost does not re-occur
- Flexibility. Pop off your match barrel and put a sporter barrel on before you get into your stand for next hunting season
- I believe that for the PRS/steel match and/or high volume shooter these are vastly underestimated benefits
I feel like theres a better way
Lots of guys don’t understand that with the savage nut you need to stick to the contours that enable the use of this nut, i.e. small shank varmint and small shank target. Lots of guys want Medium Palmas, M24s, Remington Varmints, etc. You can’t do that with the Savage nut, but with the BugNut, you can…
The BugNut
The BugNut was created to solve a few problems, and improve certain areas of the Savage pre-fit system. Ive been messing with this for some time and feel like this is a real world improvement over the traditional Savage nut system. This nut system mechanically holds and headspaces the barrel the same way the savage nut does. Detriments aimed to improve upon:
- Limitation of available barrel contours compatible with the Savage nut
- Nut wrench engagement to nut can be minimal, and therefore damaging to the wrench
- One piece wrench must be slid over the barrel before inserting the barrel into the barrel vise, increasing the risk of scratching the barrel finish
- Savage/Remage pre-fits do not fit into the common barrel channel inlets (Rem Varmint, M24, Rem Sporter, etc) of composite stocks without re-working the stock or leaving unsightly gaps in the barrel channel
- I personally find the Savage nut system a little ugly…
- Any 1.20 or 1.250 breech barrel can be used, from your lightest sporter to a Heavy Varmint. Barrel should have a breech cylinder length of at least 2.0”
- The BugNut wrench engages significantly more surface area than the Savage wrench
- The BugNut wrench is a two piece wrench, and can be “assembled” over the nut after barreled action is in the barrel vise
- The BugNut is .050 larger than the breech of the barrel, and should drop in to a traditional composite stock with little to no inletting. Most composite stocks have .030 clearance per side here, so clearance must be verified (or created if necessary)
- Well, it just looks better to me!
- 20TPI for 1.200 breech barrels
- 20TPI for 1.250 breech barrels
- 16TPI for 1.200 breech barrels
- 16TPI for 1.250 breech barrels
-barrel price is the same retail barrel price on Bugholes.com, whatever contour and brand you want
-pre-fit/gunsmithing expense:
- $180 for pre-fit labor, chamber, thread, and crown
- Delivery in about 30 days with in-stock barrels and reamers
-Bugnut wrench $50
The Bugholes.com website is not currently set up to enable these parts and services to be purchased online, so each transaction is handled individually by phone or email. Please see the following photos to help understand how these parts work.
Bighorn with a Medium Palma:
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i65.tinypic.com\/33w5e01.jpg"}[/IMG2]
Mausingfield with a Medium Palma:
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i66.tinypic.com\/2zzrnsp.jpg"}[/IMG2]
the wrench:
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i64.tinypic.com\/33n9bp5.jpg"}[/IMG2]
Busby1 wrote:
Guys...I have been running the prototype Bug-Nut for a while now (7 months) and the results have been FANTASTIC !! Greg has designed and developed a system that really works. For PRS shooters like myself that travel across the country and shoot a lot of rounds....this is a game-changer. Here are some pics of what the Bug-Nut can do in action....rifle is a Defiance, Bartlein 6mm AI contour at 24", chambered in 6XC, KMW Sentinel stock. ALL work performed by Greg at Bugholes.
Guys...I have been running the prototype Bug-Nut for a while now (7 months) and the results have been FANTASTIC !! Greg has designed and developed a system that really works. For PRS shooters like myself that travel across the country and shoot a lot of rounds....this is a game-changer. Here are some pics of what the Bug-Nut can do in action....rifle is a Defiance, Bartlein 6mm AI contour at 24", chambered in 6XC, KMW Sentinel stock. ALL work performed by Greg at Bugholes.
Bugholes wrote:
stand by for a few more photos utilizing composite stocks
supercorndogs wrote:
Can I just replace a barrel nut with the bug nut?
yes, but you'll have a gap between the nut counterbore and the breech dia of a savage contour blank. Functionally it will work. nuts fit over the breech cylinder of a 1.200/1.250 breech barrel with small amount of clearance to keep the appearance streamlinedCan I just replace a barrel nut with the bug nut?
stand by for a few more photos utilizing composite stocks
Busby1 wrote:
Another proof of concept with my BUG-NUT 6XC barrel....I was lucky enough to win the Accu-Shot Challenge at the 2016 GAP Grind...out of 236 shooters, and then again 2 weeks later at the Steel City Precision match. I couldn't be happier with this system !!
Another proof of concept with my BUG-NUT 6XC barrel....I was lucky enough to win the Accu-Shot Challenge at the 2016 GAP Grind...out of 236 shooters, and then again 2 weeks later at the Steel City Precision match. I couldn't be happier with this system !!
Busby1 wrote:
These are not the "official" instructions....but it's pretty easy....remove the ejector from the bolt face so its not pushing on the headspace gauge, screw nut on barrel all the way, screw action onto barrel, use headspace gague to set barrel/action relationship, then back the nut against the action face, hold action with action wrench, torque the BUG-NUT...and go shoot. I'll get more photos and maybe a video up to show the process.
These are not the "official" instructions....but it's pretty easy....remove the ejector from the bolt face so its not pushing on the headspace gauge, screw nut on barrel all the way, screw action onto barrel, use headspace gague to set barrel/action relationship, then back the nut against the action face, hold action with action wrench, torque the BUG-NUT...and go shoot. I'll get more photos and maybe a video up to show the process.
Bugholes wrote:
Guys-
FYI I just started a run of slightly oversized nuts for the guys who want to true a Remington action and still do pre-fits. I true all Remingtons to the same internal thread size (1.075). I'll have nuts for this size, and can produce barrels to match the same. SO you will be able to run a fully trued action with re-cut threads in a system all made to match together
Guys-
FYI I just started a run of slightly oversized nuts for the guys who want to true a Remington action and still do pre-fits. I true all Remingtons to the same internal thread size (1.075). I'll have nuts for this size, and can produce barrels to match the same. SO you will be able to run a fully trued action with re-cut threads in a system all made to match together
Bugholes wrote:
the distance between the where the nut bottoms out against the barrel shoulder, and its final torqued location against the action varies based upon how long of a threaded tenon I make, but its generally .060-.090
1234yf wrote:
How wide will the gap normally be between the nut and the barrel shoulder?
the nut counterbore ID is .010 larger than the breech diameterHow wide will the gap normally be between the nut and the barrel shoulder?
the distance between the where the nut bottoms out against the barrel shoulder, and its final torqued location against the action varies based upon how long of a threaded tenon I make, but its generally .060-.090
If I were to get this system would there be any issues with various recoil lugs? It looks like I would still need to get an nss action wrench and recoil lug for a factory rem 700 that isn't integral or pinned to go along with this nut wrench and barrel and Im just wanting to see if there is enough adjustment built into the system to account for that.
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Is this what Frank was talking about in the 6.5 Guys interview?
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I don't think so. That was the "Q" system. Here's the thread, video: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...rifles/6252618-q-switch-barrel-rifle-for-shot
I missed this thread when it started. For idiots like me, does the action require a modification to accept these barrels or will my existing Remington, Defiance or Surgeon actions work as is?
They look slick, and I've had great dealings with SPR in the past. In fact y'all saved a build for me that had stalled for lack of a barrel blank. The builder was having fits getting what I wanted until I found it on bugholes. Oddly, the hard to find stock that I'd put aside years ago for that eventual build also came from bugholes.
Good question, Bogey. From reading the OP from Scout, I believe these barrels are designed to work with an unaltered Remington action, as is. But was about to ask the same thing regarding integral lug custom actions. Will the various custom integral lug actions require a different 'BugNut' barrel type (Surgeon, Defiance, Bighorn, Mausingfield, etc.) ?
I've ordered 3 prefit barrels from Greg and they all group better than I can shoot. Two on bighorn actions and one on a defiance, one remage, one savage nut and one bighorn nut, they all work well. The advantage of the bug nut really is there are a lot more barrels that you can select from as Greg stated. The barrel type doesn't change from action type to action type although the chambering does change a little for different brands of action.
For example, I have a 22 creedmoor chambered for a savage threaded bighorn action, but the chamber cut is just a little different than on a straight savage action. If you want to know the difference ask Greg.
What's nice is that he send's the barrel in the mail and you can mount it in your action and be out shooting in no time. When, not if my .243 AI burns out its barrel I just order another, put it on myself I'm back in business with a custom barrel from a gunsmith who knows his stuff. To do the same on a normally shouldered barrel I would have to send it out and wait months for it to be done.
For example, I have a 22 creedmoor chambered for a savage threaded bighorn action, but the chamber cut is just a little different than on a straight savage action. If you want to know the difference ask Greg.
What's nice is that he send's the barrel in the mail and you can mount it in your action and be out shooting in no time. When, not if my .243 AI burns out its barrel I just order another, put it on myself I'm back in business with a custom barrel from a gunsmith who knows his stuff. To do the same on a normally shouldered barrel I would have to send it out and wait months for it to be done.
Thanks Redleg.
So if I understand, my actions don't need to be modified, but I would need to specify the action when ordering a barrel?
So if I understand, my actions don't need to be modified, but I would need to specify the action when ordering a barrel?
Thanks, although I of course have zero idea what the thread pattern is on my rifles, that's why I had guys much smarter than me build them
When/if the time comes I guess I can ask what I need. My interest was as much academic as anything. I love seeing these innovations and try to understand them as well as possible. If not for my own need, then at least for friends that don't geek over this stuff the way we do. I've got a redundant .308 built by GAP on a Surgeon action and had been toying with a caliber change if I could ever decide on the caliber. This seems like a great alternative to gunsmith lead times.
This is really a lot easier than you think. Most custom action websites list their barrel thread. The only modification possibly to be made is any bedding forward of the lug. It will have to be relieved. For that reason I don't bed forward of the lug.
Defiance Deviant medium and Surgeon 591 actions are both 1-1/16 16
Yes you are correct, no mod to the action, but for the best results Greg needs to know what action, and not just the threading.
Greg, could you make this work with say a tempest action?
Are their any plans to make this system work with a TIKKA T3 in the near future ?
Thanks !
Thanks !
Because the depth of pocket cut into the nose of the bolt is different between different actions, so the depth of the chamber is adjusted so you have the right amount of the back of the case sticking out.
And in addition to that question what about differing recoil lugs?
Guys-
thanks for your interest in this ramshackle idea of mine, I was coming to post that the sales have been excellent, and lead times were starting to slip from 4 to 6 weeks. That's when I found a new forum format? and thread moved I guess...
sorry Ive been absent, I'll try to answer questions as they appear, within reason, as the shop is excessively busy now. Email is more direct for me, [email protected]
-I need to know action type to determine thread pitch, bolt nose and headspace geometry (no they aren't all the same), tenon length, etc. Surgeon, defiance, R700 are not the same. They have the same tenon diameter and thread pitch, but theres differences in lengths, counterbore depths, and headspace
-I do need to know recoil lug thickness, this is VERY important. tenon length is calculated based upon action type PLUS recoil lug thickness, if applicable. Getting a barrel made for a std .187 lug and then switching out to a .312 lug will cause an UNSAFE CONDITION. the nut has .150 of travel on the barrel when set to GO headspace, when I thread the barrel, I leave the nut in the middle of this range meaning there should be approx. .070-.080 gap between the nut in its forward most position, and the action face or recoil lug. Adding additional recoil lug that exceeds this gap value creates unsupported case
-actions do not need to be modified for this system
-R700 actions would need to be pinned or for you to use a standard recoil lug alignment tool to hold the lug in place during torque and assembly. I do not pin actions/lugs
-nuts for trued remingtons will be ready within a week or so
thanks for your interest in this ramshackle idea of mine, I was coming to post that the sales have been excellent, and lead times were starting to slip from 4 to 6 weeks. That's when I found a new forum format? and thread moved I guess...
sorry Ive been absent, I'll try to answer questions as they appear, within reason, as the shop is excessively busy now. Email is more direct for me, [email protected]
-I need to know action type to determine thread pitch, bolt nose and headspace geometry (no they aren't all the same), tenon length, etc. Surgeon, defiance, R700 are not the same. They have the same tenon diameter and thread pitch, but theres differences in lengths, counterbore depths, and headspace
-I do need to know recoil lug thickness, this is VERY important. tenon length is calculated based upon action type PLUS recoil lug thickness, if applicable. Getting a barrel made for a std .187 lug and then switching out to a .312 lug will cause an UNSAFE CONDITION. the nut has .150 of travel on the barrel when set to GO headspace, when I thread the barrel, I leave the nut in the middle of this range meaning there should be approx. .070-.080 gap between the nut in its forward most position, and the action face or recoil lug. Adding additional recoil lug that exceeds this gap value creates unsupported case
-actions do not need to be modified for this system
-R700 actions would need to be pinned or for you to use a standard recoil lug alignment tool to hold the lug in place during torque and assembly. I do not pin actions/lugs
-nuts for trued remingtons will be ready within a week or so
Cool! Thanks Greg.
BTW, I've ordered two Manners stocks through Core and Josh is working with Manners to get an inlet for the BugNut. At first it seems Manners is making it more complicated than it really is (add 0.050" diameter for the first 0.750" length of shank forward of the action face with integral lug or forward of the independant lug nut) , but I've feeling Tom and Josh will get it worked out.
BTW, I've ordered two Manners stocks through Core and Josh is working with Manners to get an inlet for the BugNut. At first it seems Manners is making it more complicated than it really is (add 0.050" diameter for the first 0.750" length of shank forward of the action face with integral lug or forward of the independant lug nut) , but I've feeling Tom and Josh will get it worked out.
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I am about to pick one up for my Defiance to give it a try? Once installed I will put my feedback.
I've got a TL3 and will be swapping a Dasher and Gap 4S (6.5 SAUM) barrels. It came with the Dasher (Muller Works) installed and that's how I've been shooting it. My dies for the SAUM are not here yet, so I haven't had a reason to swap barrels yet.
I'm hoping it will be non-eventful to swap. I'm just wondering when you set the headspace and torque, if it will stay in spec from barrel to barrel. I'll report back when I've got the SAUM ready to shoot.
I also have a Savage SA and LA that have Bugnuts. 22-250 (Muller) and 6.5x284 (Bartlein). I will not be swapping barrels on these. The BugNut system is a no brainer IMHO. Being able to use the best of the best barrels in whatever contour and be all in for $600... pretty cool. And with a 4 week turnaround!
I'm 7 months and waiting for a TL3 shouldered barrel, FWIW.
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I should add that the TL3 shouldered will share a 6x47L and .223 Wylde. As I understand it, shouldered setups will be within .0002" when torqued correctly.
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Looks like tis thread has re-appeared, good...
Manners is pretty tight on their barrel channel inlets, depending on your inlet you may need to open it up a little bit. The nut is .050 wider than the barrel breech, so if it touches it should be "barely"
Manners is pretty tight on their barrel channel inlets, depending on your inlet you may need to open it up a little bit. The nut is .050 wider than the barrel breech, so if it touches it should be "barely"
My bugnut will be arriving next week! Excited to post results!
results continue to come in, and the feedback has been positive.
lead times are 6 weeks
all nuts and wrenches are in stock
lead times are 6 weeks
all nuts and wrenches are in stock
Does the TL3 need a rail mod for the Bugnut to work? I seem to remember hearing something like this, if I'm wrong I'll haze myself.
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Does the TL3 need a rail mod for the Bugnut to work? I seem to remember hearing something like this, if I'm wrong I'll haze myself.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you'd need to either cut, or take off the TL3 rail to install the nut because the wrench needs access to the nut and the extended TL3 scope rail will block it. At least that's what it seems like to me.
I just broke in my bugnut barrel and am now going to try to shoot some more official groups, maybe some distance stuff with er'. I'll post a review. So far so good though! Using factory Hornady ELD-M 140gr 6.5CM it shot a .40 inch 5 round group @ 100. And I am NOT by any stretch of the imagination a "good shooter". So I am more than pleased to see sub-half moa!
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you will need to remove the rail on a TL-3 as it extends forward of the action face. Any rail that extends forward of the action face would need ot be removed
FYI more TL-3 SA/308 just came yesterday
I just bought a TL3 action. I was moving towards this new barrel nut option....well until this last post. So what you are saying is that every time I want to change out a barrel, I have to remove the rail ? What about cutting the rail itself down ?
Agh! No need to cut the rail. Only takes 30 sec to pop the rail that is pinned. Not a problem.
the rail inhibits 360* access to the nut, so you will either need to take it off, or cut a little off the front
For clarity, once teh barrel is installed on the TL3 the pinned rail can be re installed correct?
Yeah, you just need it off to use a nut/action wrench. As you can see in earlier pics the nut doesn't stand proud of of the exterior action dimensions so the rail can extend forward after installation.
Tag
Are bugnuts available yet for R700 actions that have been trued?
yes sir, I can do Remingtons that Ive trued with 1.075x16 threads
the likelihood that another shop has cut the threads to this size is low, from what ive seen many other shops stop cutting threads then theyre fully cleaned up- whatever size that may be
I second the Tikka question??
