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Buildin a load and having trouble with flyers

S

SSC

Sergeant
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 4, 2008
579
0
La Grange, TX
www.scoutsupplycompany.com
#1
A buddy just had a 260 built on a 700 LA so that we could have more case capacity. We wanted to run the 140 bergers but can't seem to find any anywhere so we moved to the 130's. We have tried moving the bullet in and out but can't seem to find a consistent grouping. Velocity is great and sd is not more than 20 fps. We are shooting at 300 and will have two holes close (.5") and the third will be 2-6" off.

What could be the issue here?

Gun is a 260 on a 700 LA
Hogue stock
Shilen barrel
Remington fire formed brass
We have tried RL 19 h4831 and RL15 and varget
 
#3
Re: Buildin a load and having trouble with flyers

Remington brass
Winchester and Remington primers
Best loads were 45.7 4831 and 45.9 with RL 19
Not sure I'm the throat length. How would measure that? Length to the lands is 3.365" we have tried .003, .010, .020, .030 off the lands. The best has been .020.
 
#5
Re: Buildin a load and having trouble with flyers

To tell the truth, I think flyers like that are not coming from your load. You could have a scope problem. Check that the scope is mounted firmly. Maybe change the scope, if it is in doubt, and see if a proven scope solves the problem.
 
#6
Re: Buildin a load and having trouble with flyers

A SD (standard deviation) of 20 is not very good. An ES (extreme spread) of 20 is ok. With the charge of H4831 you're trying, that's a lighter load for loading the bullet long in a LA. Keep going up. The Bergers shoot best just touching the lands or slightly off. So, keep going up in powder charge with the bullet seated close to touching (not jammed). Pick a seating depth, and stick with it.
 
#8
Re: Buildin a load and having trouble with flyers

Am I crazy to think this isn't a load problem?
Everyone so far, except me, has recommended load changing.

If you are getting two shots consistently that close, then it seems that your load can produce consistency. The flyers two to six inches off sound like something besides the load.

Every load I have ever had shoot bad would shoot consistently bad. Not group some shots and drop one.
 
#10
Re: Buildin a load and having trouble with flyers

Okay so we did a little bit of what everyone said. We moved the powder charge up and that seemed to some what tame the flyers. Also ordered a new rail for the scope because old two piece base seemed to be a bit warped. Should have checked the base in the beginning but some how it just got over looked.

Thanks for everyone's help.
 
#11
Re: Buildin a load and having trouble with flyers

What type of rest are you shooting off of?

Most Hogue stocks I have had experience with have quite a bit of flex in them and your barrel could be touching your stock, depending on your front rest.
 
#13
Re: Buildin a load and having trouble with flyers

Okay checking back in with new info.

We know have a new rail and have switched over from a tasco to a nightforce scope. We have also switched from a cheap Franklin scale to a new ChargeMaster. So I have eliminated hardware other than crown and the gunsmith said he double checked before it left two-three weeks ago. We also increased the powder charge to 48.3 and worked it in and out off the lands. Best velocity group with RL19 @ 48.3 was .020" off the lands. It had a SD of 6 with ES around 25. On a 5 shot group 3 were .4" and the other two were 1.4" away at 100. best accuracy group was .005" off the lands and a total group of are .8" but the velocity spread was around 80 fps ES.

At this point I am ready to throw out the ladder test we did and shoot 3 shot groups at .2 increments starting at 47. Then when I have a decent group begin adjusting seating depth.

Or should I scratch the bergers and move to amaxs. I am at a loss for where to go from here.
 
#15
Re: Buildin a load and having trouble with flyers

Both scales are mechanical but they shouldn't be the problem here. I have loads for other guns that shoot .275" groups.

No the gun is not glass bedded. Just the aluminum pillars that the hogue comes with. We did mess with the stock to make sure it wasn't touching the barrel.
 
#16
Re: Buildin a load and having trouble with flyers

My thoughts.

If you can't get SMK's or Nosler Ballistic Tips to group, your gun has a problem. I'd go to something with like that a most popular following and recreate the ladder testing.

Did you mean to post that the stock <span style="font-style: italic">was</span> touching the barrel? If so, what is your reasoning?

On rare occasion, when I've had reason to suspect a pillar bed job; I've placed rubber washers between pillar and receiver to jack everything up and isolate the support to just the pillars. I've determined this is a good way to figure out whether an unfloated barrel could benefit from floating.

Sometimes floating is <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> the best answer. I found that out when I removed a factory contact pad at the end of my R700 S/A VLS .223's barrel channel. Would <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> shoot well until it was restored.

You can also do a Q&D temp trial bedding job with hot glue and use shoe polish for a release agent on both stock and action. It should pop right out if you want to redo it permanent, or just eliminate it altogether.

Greg
 
#17
Re: Buildin a load and having trouble with flyers

Have you weighed your cases? When I am testing loads I try to take as many variables out of the equation as possible. You can't add or subtract tenths of a grain of powder and get a accurate test if your cases are varying at all.

Weigh out 5 cases that are exact and try it again, I think you will be pleased.
 
#18
Re: Buildin a load and having trouble with flyers

Pick a load that seems to shoot well. Shoot a 10 round string. If rnds # 1 & 2 go into the same hole and then things begin to walk or settle elsewhere you have a barrel or bolt issue.

Cheers,

Doc
 
#20
Re: Buildin a load and having trouble with flyers

What your looking for is to see if there is an issue with your rifle. What your hoping for is that the group WILL NOT move. It may get a little larger as the group is shot but it should remain in the same POI. If you get a sudden jump in location that you cannot attribute to your shooting you have a rifle/optic problem.

Cheers,

Doc
 
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