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Building custom buffalo gun

585 Nyati

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 5, 2014
19
0
Sugar Land, TX
I've seen some cool looking buffalo guns, chambered in the .50-90 and .45-70 rounds. What would it take to build a .90 cal buffalo gun (with a .935 bore)?

I would want the rifle to look like the traditional buffalo guns or even be built like the 1885 High Walls
 
More money than brains?

I keed...but why not a 45-110 or something like that with some real history that still has plenty of boom?

Though I suspect with your username you know more about these guns than I...just wondering why 90 caliber considering there are so many cool .45s and .50s? Or is that why, looking for something different? Even at subsonic velocity with a straight stock that is gonna hurt. Hope your retinas are stuck on good.
 
After watching them...I doubt you would want to shoot it in a traditional lightweight style rifle.
 
More money than brains?

I keed...but why not a 45-110 or something like that with some real history that still has plenty of boom?

Though I suspect with your username you know more about these guns than I...just wondering why 90 caliber considering there are so many cool .45s and .50s? Or is that why, looking for something different? Even at subsonic velocity with a straight stock that is gonna hurt. Hope your retinas are stuck on good.

I agree there are many cool .45s and .50s, but I want to take it to the next level. If I go through with it, I will have each cartridge machine made, firing a 2000 grain bullet at 1300-1450 fps. It will basically be a 4 bore buffalo gun.

.45-110 isn't quite enough, I want to see if with a well made rifle, if I could hit targets at 400 yards with such a slug.
 
I fail to see how such a rifle could be a field-practical tool. But if it is what you really want, rock on.
 
Yes indeed, rock on! and post pics of build and bullets, this sounds cool as hell. As to why a .90, why not? It's his build, let him build it. Are you going to take a buffalo with it?
Not to sidetrack the discussion.... aw hell... What is the minimum caliber for buffalo? Lots of big game is taken in Africa with the .375, some buffalo size.


1911fan
 
WOW a 90 cal! I shoot a 50-90 Sharps Hartford and it is easy to manage. I shoot nothing but black powder loads.
1991 I am not sure what white powder round is minimum for Buffalo but the buff I killed was with a 40-70 Sharps Straight with a 400 grain 30:1 lead bullet pushed by 68 grains of 2Fg powder. The shot was at 75 yards and a heart shot and got complete pass through.

OP I may know where a 1885 in 45-90 is.
 
Call JD Jones at SSK Industries.... He dose off the wall work lilt what you are talking about....
 
45-120 is a really good round, and brass (mad in AUS) is still made, although the cost is about $3.00 each. What you are looking at is a 1 inch cannon. If you are determined (and have the funds) to have made a 1 inch bore muzzle loader, have a cannon builder make you one. You'll shoot it more often, and you'll have more fun. If you have a pile of old Soviet 23mm projectiles (from cannon such as the zsu 23), I can see why you may want to build this thing!
 
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Was wondering about the DD issue myself. Of course, at that point what's another $200 for a tax stamp? Or there might be a cartridge with a "sporting use" exemption. Or muzzle loaded.

Hmm... I'm picturing a treestand with a turret on top, and hand cranks inside. ;)
 
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The over 50 cal, applies to modern weapons, not cannons, or muzzle loaders. And IAW BATF: SHALL NOT INCLUDE: or any other device which the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.” (26 USCS § 5845)
I believe a single shot "high wall" chambered for a 1 90+ caliber "super buffalo" cartridge would easily come under the "solely sporting purpose", if one could consider it sporting to shoot the thing.
 
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I agree there are many cool .45s and .50s, but I want to take it to the next level. If I go through with it, I will have each cartridge machine made, firing a 2000 grain bullet at 1300-1450 fps. It will basically be a 4 bore buffalo gun.

.45-110 isn't quite enough, I want to see if with a well made rifle, if I could hit targets at 400 yards with such a slug.

Now that's a man. I'm not really helping here but I've always had an interest in the big rifles.
 
Many years ago I was stationed with a guy that breathed black powder. He built a muzzle loader using a demilled 20MM barrel (not quite .80, if my math is correct). I have a .45/70 High Wall. That's about as big a kick as I want.
 
I have plenty of 45-120 brass and dies if you need it. I sold my rifle in that caliber because the 45-90 was much more accurate. I really don't think you would be able to neck it up that high. Actually you would probably have to have custom spun casings for something that massive. Man...would that be fun to shoot though!
 
A quick calc shows a 30 lb rifle with a 2000gr bullet at 1400fps will generate 122ft-lb of recoil energy, about 3 times that of a 30lb 50BMG. Ouch.
 
Thanks everyone for the input. I would want such a rifle for shooting hogs and 500 yard shots

I emailed JD Jones about this. Could he have cartridges made with copper nickel alloy bullets?

I'm thinking I want 3 types of loads,
2000 grain solid practice load @ 850 fps

2000 grain solids @ 1500 fps

2150 grain solid@ 1300 fps
 
Hmm, how about a form one suppressor for that subsonic load? Could probably still hear the bullet zing through the air.
 
I assume this thread is about bison.

Bison are easy to kill, and any of the black powder .40 calibers, on up, will work fine. The reason to use a bigger cartridge like a 50-110 or whatever is because you enjoy using it.
 
You may want to talk to the guys who did the 12ga From Hell. They also did the .585 Hubel Express and some serious brass cased 10ga rifled slug gun loads and what not too. I imagine they could contribute some pretty interesting ideas, and I want to say they have an in with Bertram brass as well.
 
You could save a lot of time and money by using an existing cartridge. For one thing, somebody already engineered and maybe manufactures casings for it. And you'd avoid the NFA hassles if you picked a cartridge that somebody already spent the money on to get a Sporting Use Exemption for the DD.

M.K. "Ken" Owen, River City Rifle Company, Moscow, Tennessee, is one of the last remaining custom builders of dangerous game double rifles in the US, and he has built 4-bores in the past. In rifles, a 'bore' is not a fixed measurement. It varies with the exact density of the lead used when slugging the barrel. A typical 4-bore is just a smidge over a 1.0 caliber, so it should be no problem to tweak the alloy to reduce the diameter to 0.935". And if Mr. Owen does not machine them himself (which I'm pretty sure he does), he at least can put you in touch with whoever makes his casings for him.

And there are enough 4-bores in existence that I would think somebody must have ponied up for the SUE, which you should be able to piggy-back off, although that might mean having to scale up to a full 1-inch diameter. I'm sure Mr. Owen also would know the particulars on that account.

If that doesn't work for you, check the BATF's list of obsolete cartridges. That might have something that can, like the 1.0-cal or .80-cal Gatling cartridges.
 
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I wonder if there would be any legal issues with taking the barreled action of the rifle in that video and mounting it in a miniaturized artillery carriage. I'm thinking lawn mower wheels and the shock absorbers off a dirt bike. I could have a cannon without the expense of a full size artillery piece. Ammo would be cheaper and I wouldn't feel like a moron firing it at 1000yds.
 
I agree there are many cool .45s and .50s, but I want to take it to the next level. If I go through with it, I will have each cartridge machine made, firing a 2000 grain bullet at 1300-1450 fps. It will basically be a 4 bore buffalo gun.

.45-110 isn't quite enough, I want to see if with a well made rifle, if I could hit targets at 400 yards with such a slug.


Google "12 gauge from Hell". Guys started expermenting with brass cased 12ga cartidges in bolt action shotguns. They use the Savage models that have heavy rifled barrels and real locking lugs. I bought some cases from them once for their at the time current version, they even have an ATF sprorting excemption. They trimmed 50 bmg brass, turned the bases down and threaded them to take a brass 12ga rim. If I remember right they swaged bullets using plumbing caps for jackets.
 
400yds, let's see. Twenty or thirty feet of drop. Going +/- 500mph. Maybe. Not going to fit in a Winchester Hi-wall.
 
Google "12 gauge from Hell". Guys started expermenting with brass cased 12ga cartidges in bolt action shotguns. They use the Savage models that have heavy rifled barrels and real locking lugs. I bought some cases from them once for their at the time current version, they even have an ATF sprorting excemption. They trimmed 50 bmg brass, turned the bases down and threaded them to take a brass 12ga rim. If I remember right they swaged bullets using plumbing caps for jackets.

Exactly what I was talking about. They did a rifled brass case 10ga as well, and I think they may have even done an 8ga.

You could also just try straightening BMG brass yourself and run a, what would that be, .80 or so caliber with a bit of taper?
 
1911, just having some fun with it. The 4 bore, reputedly could fail to penetrate an elephants skull on a frontal shot but would turn the elephant or knock him to his knees. I believe Selous said that the use of the four had ruined his ability to shoot smaller calibers accurately. Having watched the above video, I can assure you I wouldn't touch that thing. I already work to overcome a flinch and can't imagine the damage to my shooting that monstrosity would inflict. A 4 is a stopping rifle designed to be used inside 40yds. It would be interesting to have someone figure out what angle a rifle would have to be held at to deliver a shot to 400yds. using a .935 2000gr. projectile at 1400FPS MV.