Thanks for the replies I'm glad this opened up the way it did I though this may not be appropriate for the suppressors forum. I'm shooting both at the moment, I just picked up my oculus yesterday so I'm trying to figure what I can bulk buy and stay quiet in both it would be a bonus if it was accurate as well. The pistol I'm shooting is a mp 22 compact and the bulk stuff I have which lists velocity at 1250 ish is quiet through the pistol, pretty much everything I shoot is quiet I can tell a difference between subsonic listed ammo and the other bulk stuff I have, the rifle is a savage tr or something like that, the bulk stuff definitely has a crack to it, the subs shoot quiet. I don't believe I've accuracy tested them so we'll see, I believe the most accurate stuff I've shot is eley branded I don't think it was match though. I'm ready to stock up on some, it's too easy to go out in the backyard and shoot a clip, thump,thump,thump that's all it does.