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Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
I don't know about being legal. Look at what happened to the Akins Accelerator.
I don't know about being legal. Look at what happened to the Akins Accelerator.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nihonjin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know about being legal. Look at what happened to the Akins Accelerator. </div></div>I was just thinking the exact same thing.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nihonjin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know about being legal. Look at what happened to the Akins Accelerator. </div></div>I was just thinking the exact same thing.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
Looks like a ticket to prison.
If you buy one don't be surprised when you (hopefully) get a letter from the BATFE 18 months later informing you of the definition of a machine gun and the fact that you are now looking at stiff jail time unless you surrender that.
I say hopefully b/c if you don't get a letter you will need to stay on top of firearms news. BATFE will have a lag time until they slam the door on this (if it really exists for purchase).
Ignorance of the law is not a reasonable defense. If one trigger pull makes it go bang more than 1x - it's illegal. It is that black and white.
Good luck
Looks like a ticket to prison.
If you buy one don't be surprised when you (hopefully) get a letter from the BATFE 18 months later informing you of the definition of a machine gun and the fact that you are now looking at stiff jail time unless you surrender that.
I say hopefully b/c if you don't get a letter you will need to stay on top of firearms news. BATFE will have a lag time until they slam the door on this (if it really exists for purchase).
Ignorance of the law is not a reasonable defense. If one trigger pull makes it go bang more than 1x - it's illegal. It is that black and white.
Good luck
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
Even if ATF approves it, i wouldnt be surprised 3 months later a complete 180 of policy.
Thats exactly what happened to akins accelerator.
Even if ATF approves it, i wouldnt be surprised 3 months later a complete 180 of policy.
Thats exactly what happened to akins accelerator.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like a ticket to prison.
If you buy one don't be surprised when you (hopefully) get a letter from the BATFE 18 months later informing you of the definition of a machine gun and the fact that you are now looking at stiff jail time unless you surrender that.
I say hopefully b/c if you don't get a letter you will need to stay on top of firearms news. BATFE will have a lag time until they slam the door on this (if it really exists for purchase).
Ignorance of the law is not a reasonable defense. If one trigger pull makes it go bang more than 1x - it's illegal. It is that black and white.
Good luck </div></div>
The trigger is still getting pulled everytime. However the "bump" stock I imagine moves in and out to allow the recoil to fire the trigger fast than you could on your own.
This looks like its the same basic idea of the Akins accelerator but for an AR instead of the 10/22.
I dont think itll last long but there will probably be tons of them out there by the time the rules change and with no way to track it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like a ticket to prison.
If you buy one don't be surprised when you (hopefully) get a letter from the BATFE 18 months later informing you of the definition of a machine gun and the fact that you are now looking at stiff jail time unless you surrender that.
I say hopefully b/c if you don't get a letter you will need to stay on top of firearms news. BATFE will have a lag time until they slam the door on this (if it really exists for purchase).
Ignorance of the law is not a reasonable defense. If one trigger pull makes it go bang more than 1x - it's illegal. It is that black and white.
Good luck </div></div>
The trigger is still getting pulled everytime. However the "bump" stock I imagine moves in and out to allow the recoil to fire the trigger fast than you could on your own.
This looks like its the same basic idea of the Akins accelerator but for an AR instead of the 10/22.
I dont think itll last long but there will probably be tons of them out there by the time the rules change and with no way to track it.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocHoliday13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks cool I wonder if it works with a2 stocks </div></div>
It is a stock so to respond to what you asked "NO" it will not work with your A2 stock hinting the name BUMP STOCK
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocHoliday13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks cool I wonder if it works with a2 stocks </div></div>
It is a stock so to respond to what you asked "NO" it will not work with your A2 stock hinting the name BUMP STOCK
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
Looks like fun. Also looks like a way to attract too much attention from the local law enforcement.
Looks like fun. Also looks like a way to attract too much attention from the local law enforcement.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
Given that it is Barry and the crew at the wheel it could be a honey pot as well. Free trip to Federal, pound me in the ass, prison with every stock purchase.
Per the NFA Handbook http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/nfa-handbook/ I'd say this is illegal. More importantly, the intent of NFA is clear. So if there is any legal ambiguity you can be assured it will be cleared up.
<span style="font-style: italic">Included within the definition of machinegun is any part designed and intended solely and exclusively,
or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun.</span>
Good luck
Given that it is Barry and the crew at the wheel it could be a honey pot as well. Free trip to Federal, pound me in the ass, prison with every stock purchase.
Per the NFA Handbook http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/nfa-handbook/ I'd say this is illegal. More importantly, the intent of NFA is clear. So if there is any legal ambiguity you can be assured it will be cleared up.
<span style="font-style: italic">Included within the definition of machinegun is any part designed and intended solely and exclusively,
or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun.</span>
Good luck
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
There is no way this can be legal...go luck with prison.
There is no way this can be legal...go luck with prison.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
So your finger is a machinegun part and you are NFA illegal?
Because I can bumpfire my rifle all day long with my finger.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Given that it is Barry and the crew at the wheel it could be a honey pot as well. Free trip to Federal, pound me in the ass, prison with every stock purchase.
Per the NFA Handbook http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/nfa-handbook/ I'd say this is illegal. More importantly, the intent of NFA is clear. So if there is any legal ambiguity you can be assured it will be cleared up.
<span style="font-style: italic">Included within the definition of machinegun is any part designed and intended solely and exclusively,
or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun.</span>
Good luck </div></div>
So your finger is a machinegun part and you are NFA illegal?
Because I can bumpfire my rifle all day long with my finger.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Given that it is Barry and the crew at the wheel it could be a honey pot as well. Free trip to Federal, pound me in the ass, prison with every stock purchase.
Per the NFA Handbook http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/nfa-handbook/ I'd say this is illegal. More importantly, the intent of NFA is clear. So if there is any legal ambiguity you can be assured it will be cleared up.
<span style="font-style: italic">Included within the definition of machinegun is any part designed and intended solely and exclusively,
or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun.</span>
Good luck </div></div>
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gunsmithcat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even if ATF approves it, i wouldnt be surprised 3 months later a complete 180 of policy.
Thats exactly what happened to akins accelerator. </div></div>
This.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gunsmithcat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even if ATF approves it, i wouldnt be surprised 3 months later a complete 180 of policy.
Thats exactly what happened to akins accelerator. </div></div>
This.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
It's cool, but hell, I'm not even allowed to rapid fire at my ranges. And good luck trying to convince an LE unfamiliar with guns and gun laws (a rampant issue here) that your AR is not in fact a machine gun, legal or not.
It's cool, but hell, I'm not even allowed to rapid fire at my ranges. And good luck trying to convince an LE unfamiliar with guns and gun laws (a rampant issue here) that your AR is not in fact a machine gun, legal or not.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
I can pull my trigger fast enough. I dont see the point of full auto anyways. Its a waste of ammo. I would want nothing more than a 3rd burst. Otherwise, in an ar15, I would say 25 of those bullets wont hit their target past 30 yards.
I can pull my trigger fast enough. I dont see the point of full auto anyways. Its a waste of ammo. I would want nothing more than a 3rd burst. Otherwise, in an ar15, I would say 25 of those bullets wont hit their target past 30 yards.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
That was short lived, I didn't even get to see the video.
That was short lived, I didn't even get to see the video.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
Kicking an ATF hornets nest right there. But they cant control what you can do with your extremities. If you alter the weapon, they CAN control that as long as its mechanical.
Kicking an ATF hornets nest right there. But they cant control what you can do with your extremities. If you alter the weapon, they CAN control that as long as its mechanical.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kicking an ATF hornets nest right there. </div></div>
This...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kicking an ATF hornets nest right there. </div></div>
This...
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
While this is stupid and if not illegal, it will be, I must say I love American ingenuity. Some enterprising person said "boy, this is a dumb law, I bet I can legally get around it." And sure enough, they found a legal solution. Now the .gov has to go back and change its laws.
I love America.
While this is stupid and if not illegal, it will be, I must say I love American ingenuity. Some enterprising person said "boy, this is a dumb law, I bet I can legally get around it." And sure enough, they found a legal solution. Now the .gov has to go back and change its laws.
I love America.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
I looked at this at a recent gun show. I read the John Spencer letter saying it was OK, and making arrangements to return the sample to the MFG.
The lady said that Adkins never sent a sample to ATF, so they couldn't see how it worked.
All well and good.
But the Adkins pulls the trigger every shot, too.
Hasn't a boot lace been declared a machine gun?
A $10K registered lower is still cheaper than the legal defense of an NFA violation.
Notwithstanding Mr Spencer's Technology Branch letter, it's hard to imagine this being declared verboten eventually.
I wiped my prints after I handled the sample.
I looked at this at a recent gun show. I read the John Spencer letter saying it was OK, and making arrangements to return the sample to the MFG.
The lady said that Adkins never sent a sample to ATF, so they couldn't see how it worked.
All well and good.
But the Adkins pulls the trigger every shot, too.
Hasn't a boot lace been declared a machine gun?
A $10K registered lower is still cheaper than the legal defense of an NFA violation.
Notwithstanding Mr Spencer's Technology Branch letter, it's hard to imagine this being declared verboten eventually.
I wiped my prints after I handled the sample.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
what happened to training hours after end practicing flash sight picture, recoil management, trigger management and rapid controlled fire with a semi auto trigger group to deliver devastating effects on target?
what happened to training hours after end practicing flash sight picture, recoil management, trigger management and rapid controlled fire with a semi auto trigger group to deliver devastating effects on target?
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
I was able to read the note from the ATF about this on Monday. It talked about it being submitted with a letter stating its for people with limited mobility but the people selling it did not show anyone the letter sent to the AFT.
Some states its Illegal to have an automatic knife unless you only have 1 hand.
I was able to read the note from the ATF about this on Monday. It talked about it being submitted with a letter stating its for people with limited mobility but the people selling it did not show anyone the letter sent to the AFT.
Some states its Illegal to have an automatic knife unless you only have 1 hand.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
One of my reps bought one of these stocks, one word GAY! its sporadic at best and uncontrollable as hell. But hey you get good at pulling the charging handle when the trigger doesn't reset and the damn thing quits.
One of my reps bought one of these stocks, one word GAY! its sporadic at best and uncontrollable as hell. But hey you get good at pulling the charging handle when the trigger doesn't reset and the damn thing quits.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ram4X4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can pull my trigger fast enough. I dont see the point of full auto anyways. Its a waste of ammo. I would want nothing more than a 3rd burst. Otherwise, in an ar15, I would say 25 of those bullets wont hit their target past 30 yards. </div></div>
I wouldn't make any big bets on that.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ram4X4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can pull my trigger fast enough. I dont see the point of full auto anyways. Its a waste of ammo. I would want nothing more than a 3rd burst. Otherwise, in an ar15, I would say 25 of those bullets wont hit their target past 30 yards. </div></div>
I wouldn't make any big bets on that.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ram4X4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can pull my trigger fast enough. I dont see the point of full auto anyways. Its a waste of ammo. I would want nothing more than a 3rd burst. Otherwise, in an ar15, I would say 25 of those bullets wont hit their target past 30 yards. </div></div>
I wouldn't make any big bets on that. </div></div>
If you know how to drive the gun they can be very controllable and accurate. We have an M-16 that I would be willing to bet that I could dump a mag and have all thirty rounds on a B-27 target @40 yards (our indoor range is 40 yds) and most of them would be inside the seven ring. The mini Uzi, glock 18, or even the slide fire stock no way but the M16 is a sweetheart to shoot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ram4X4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can pull my trigger fast enough. I dont see the point of full auto anyways. Its a waste of ammo. I would want nothing more than a 3rd burst. Otherwise, in an ar15, I would say 25 of those bullets wont hit their target past 30 yards. </div></div>
I wouldn't make any big bets on that. </div></div>
If you know how to drive the gun they can be very controllable and accurate. We have an M-16 that I would be willing to bet that I could dump a mag and have all thirty rounds on a B-27 target @40 yards (our indoor range is 40 yds) and most of them would be inside the seven ring. The mini Uzi, glock 18, or even the slide fire stock no way but the M16 is a sweetheart to shoot.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
Found the video again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U6tORrODJE
Wouldn't surprise me if they said to hell with it and banned semi-autos.
Found the video again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U6tORrODJE
Wouldn't surprise me if they said to hell with it and banned semi-autos.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
Here is a better review of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0BgLk1i9yY
I believe the problem that the ATF had with the Akins is that it used a mechanical part. (A spring) to return the stock into battery. This one you use your pressure to get it to fire. But it would not surprise me in the least that the ATF shuts this down.
Here is a better review of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0BgLk1i9yY
I believe the problem that the ATF had with the Akins is that it used a mechanical part. (A spring) to return the stock into battery. This one you use your pressure to get it to fire. But it would not surprise me in the least that the ATF shuts this down.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
Defacto criminalization.....
Nah, that'd never happen
Good luck
Defacto criminalization.....
Nah, that'd never happen
Good luck
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
They sell these at my local pawn shop...Its the slide fire but its kinda expensive for a piece of injection molded plastic at 350 bucks a pop...Completely legal and those guys sell at the gun shows too
I dont think the ATF will really mess with it
They sell these at my local pawn shop...Its the slide fire but its kinda expensive for a piece of injection molded plastic at 350 bucks a pop...Completely legal and those guys sell at the gun shows too
I dont think the ATF will really mess with it
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
We sell them at our store, and allow them to be fired on our range. The ATF (for now) has said they do not meet the definition of being a machine gun.
I suspect, like most fun things, they will eventually put an end to this. But, at the present moment, they are legal.
We sell them at our store, and allow them to be fired on our range. The ATF (for now) has said they do not meet the definition of being a machine gun.
I suspect, like most fun things, they will eventually put an end to this. But, at the present moment, they are legal.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColtTX</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We sell them at our store, and allow them to be fired on our range. The ATF (for now) has said they do not meet the definition of being a machine gun.
I suspect, like most fun things, they will eventually put an end to this. But, at the present moment, they are legal. </div></div>
problem is, you can shoulder fire the weapon with somewhat accuracy and put lead down pretty fast... if anything that's what ATF wants not to happen... bump firing from the hip at bunch of police cars can be hard (and ATF can't control that), but if this thing is correctly used, you can supress people with this thing and a beta mag...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColtTX</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We sell them at our store, and allow them to be fired on our range. The ATF (for now) has said they do not meet the definition of being a machine gun.
I suspect, like most fun things, they will eventually put an end to this. But, at the present moment, they are legal. </div></div>
problem is, you can shoulder fire the weapon with somewhat accuracy and put lead down pretty fast... if anything that's what ATF wants not to happen... bump firing from the hip at bunch of police cars can be hard (and ATF can't control that), but if this thing is correctly used, you can supress people with this thing and a beta mag...
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
This stock is the only reason that I still own an AR. It works great and much more controllable than a real full auto, because the stock is taking some of the recoil. You do have to have an adjustable type buffer tube and a few brands will not work, also have to have a flat type trigger guard in order for the stock to slide. Mine does jam every time with beta mags, but never on a plain 30 round mag. This is a nice novelty when used correctly, but is expensive.
This stock is the only reason that I still own an AR. It works great and much more controllable than a real full auto, because the stock is taking some of the recoil. You do have to have an adjustable type buffer tube and a few brands will not work, also have to have a flat type trigger guard in order for the stock to slide. Mine does jam every time with beta mags, but never on a plain 30 round mag. This is a nice novelty when used correctly, but is expensive.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
It's just a matter of time before some whack job shoots a place up with it, then I guarantee it will outlawed. They already tried with extended magazines after the Arizona shooting.
It's just a matter of time before some whack job shoots a place up with it, then I guarantee it will outlawed. They already tried with extended magazines after the Arizona shooting.
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
It is a diecent stock. i would like to own one, but I think I would rather spend that kind of money on a Atlas V8.1
It is a diecent stock. i would like to own one, but I think I would rather spend that kind of money on a Atlas V8.1
Re: Bump stock - legal Full Auto per BATF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hk dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How accurate could this possibly be? </div></div>
I would say about as accurate as Habeeb and his AK-47 from the hip. I shot one quite a bit, no thank you
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hk dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How accurate could this possibly be? </div></div>
I would say about as accurate as Habeeb and his AK-47 from the hip. I shot one quite a bit, no thank you
