If they are never are in stock at EV is there another option for their mil/leo pricing?
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- Thread starter D_TROS
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Its a fair question.. Speaking for myself, I never zero my windage. Its capped, I only move it to zero or ocassionally dial in a few points for a mover.
But I agree, for the guy who resets zero everytime it may seem incomplete to only have one..
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Minuteman
There’s a fairly large movement in popularity of dialing windage for as much as possible.
Hence things like the JTAC non tree reticle.
But just curious the design intent. Looks like good product overall.
I agree. Its actually pretty funny. It seems to really depend on where you're shooting.
The large majority of our western matches are filled with guys who dial elevation and hold wind. Start traveling to eastern matches, or Midwest, you start running into more people dialing wind.
I dont really know anyone in the NW circles who dials a lot of wind. There's too much of it out here, and its too unpredictable. Every now and then it makes good sense on some stages, or matches on 90 second par times., but for the most part I rarely touch it.
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That’s a good point.
This game is very region specific. From everything like Wiebad vs AG, to match strategies and anywhere in between.
Which is why I took issue with one area of the country complaining about how another area runs things. It’s so different region to region, that’s just not realistic currently.
I'd agree it's probably a region thing. Where I shoot I never dial wind. It's rare to aim at a plate and it varies way to much to bother dialing. It would do my head in dialing .8 right in and then having to change to .4 left and having to hold 1.2 left to account for the difference. I'd just get lost so I never dial for wind. As a result I rarely ever zero my wind turret
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Not to derail thread. But holding and dialing is applied the same way on the clock.
Don’t thing “I dialed left and now it’s right” Just make adjustments like you normally would.
As far as regions with more or less wind, that’s just justification for preference. A very large percentage of the top shooters are dialing wind and they are doing it all over the country. It’s really not that hard and has many positive reasons behind it.
But it’s taboo. Like shooting at high power. The best shooter in the country can go on a forum and say “I run at 27x as much as possible and I dial 90% of my wind.”
And they would be flamed to no end.
Preferences are fine. But there’s no part of country that’s so complicated with wind you can dial in many or most situations if you want.
It's not just holding left or right when you change from a left wind to a right wind and have wind dialed on you have to aim further for the wind you have dialed on unless your going to dial on the clock. But yes it's is just a personal preference. Personally I'm stupid and adding 1 more thing to think about is outside my brain capacity on the clock
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Sure it is.
Wind is 6mph left and 500yd. Dial .5 left
Wind switches to right and it’s now 12mph. and you’d normally be holding 1 mil right, now it’s just .5 right. But you don’t do that math on the clock just like you wouldn’t if you held .5 left, it switched and then you hold 1.0 right.
Shouldn’t be doing math on clock or thinking. Just adjusting based on what you see.
And except for rare situations or the very top wind callers, no one is usually going to see such a wind change and recognize it before they break a shot. We don’t have time like other disciplines to watch wind. It’s normally after you take a shot and see where you missed. Which is zero thinking or math. Just using a ruler.
Going into stages thinking and such like this, regardless of strategy is why many have so much issues. Thinking about wrong stuff at wrong time.
Like everything, one should strive to be well rounded. Even if someone has a preference for dialing, they should be able to seamlessly swap over to holding on command.
Or vice versa. If you hold wind, you should be able to dial when situation calls.
what are your thought on the Tenmile?
We don't see many eastern or midwest shooters out here. Its a long way to travel, and they can get to matches much closer.
I only see the Oklahoma boys at the Finales/Championships. Though I did see Ken Sanoski win the Hornady PRC this year. But oddly enough, I've shot that match all three years, and last year was the calmest its been. It was 15 to 20mph winds all weekend long the first two years, more like 6-10mph last year. Huge difference.
I was up on one of the long range stages last year from a firing position sheltered from the wind. My buddy was 60 yards away up on the ridge getting a wind. Just before the buzz went off he held up 3 fingers. I remember thinking "what the hell, 3mph at Hornady?" It was right. Got impacts at .2 and .3 on the first two plates.
But I agree with you that I think either system works with practice. I mostly have to remember to dial back. I put a capital W on my data card and circle it these days whenever I dial as reminder to put it back where it was
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Search back posts for more detailed info re: comparisons. Mine is the 5-50X, and the glass, to me, is a touch better than everything else in the ~2K class, but it doesn't matter. Glass is so close in the segment that the FOV and SCR2 reticle of the XTR3 trumped everything else. I bought a 2nd XTR3 and sold my ZCO (which is much better, of course, but read back posts to see detail). Will be buying 2 XTR Pro's as soon as someone has inventory. Naked rifles been waiting since Dec for them.
Thanks! I messaged @TheHebrewHammer yesterday around 1pm and still haven’t received a reply to the question. Know of anywhere else?
Sorry, I was away from my computer yesterday, I'll messaging back everyone today.
Doug at Camaraland carried them previously. He posted he will be at Shot Show this week. I bet we will hear from the vendors during the week and after the week is over on who is carrying what. SportOptics also carried the XTR3’s when they came out a few years ago.
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Can this be answered already lol. Seen a few people ask and no answer. EV is nice but when stuff is out of stock it seems like its out of stock for quite a while.
Not everyone agrees that pre-orders are a good thing.
I would agree depending on the situation. In this situation the scopes are made and ready to ship. If you are willing to take the risk of being an early adopter, I don't see the problem. Now, if they announced and then had to go to production, I wouldn't want to pre-order.
I'm taking exception to this comment as well. You and DTros have been flapping your gums about this scope since at least October of last year. In a since deleted post, you even claimed a Thanksgiving release date. If they didn't really want anyone to know, why did they tell you two? And why have you been hyping it as the second coming of christ?
None of this really matters though, I have spoken for one.
I have been told, directly from Burris, expect about a year for the Pro and non Pro illuminated model to hit EV due to demand…
Yeah that kinda put me off
It does get annoying when many of these companies claim to have a Mil/LEO program yet you can't ever buy anything because they are either out of stock or they wait a year or two to upload to latest products.
Vortex, Leopold, Burris, Bushnell.
You can order any NF direct from them, March the same as well as a few others.
Vortex, Leopold, Burris, Bushnell.
You can order any NF direct from them, March the same as well as a few others.
I was able to get my Bushnell DMR3 direct from them with their program, and shipping was quite fast I might add, and I did see the new Razor pop onto EV instantly but it’s been OOS since appearing.
This is rather disheartening, oh well. I get that its nice for some companies to offer but what good does it do when they aren't in stock or a year out.
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Bushnell used to let you order direct from their mil person. Then they went to EV, Then they let you order from the website, but nothing was ever in stock.
Recently Bushnell and associated brands including RCBS slashed their discount to the point you can get the shit cheaper from a retailer.
These fuck fuck games are going to make buying more ZCOs the correct choice.
Not cool man.
I spent 4 years as a chef sailing around the Caribbean, I've earned these discounts!
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Wtf is EV? Exclusive vendors?
Steven Segall played you in a movie?!
I'm not sure why you seem to be trying to tell me I'm wrong about what I like in a reticle.
You do you.
Cool review
i usually shoot at 16x and havnt had a problem...I havnt compared to an xtr3 as I thought it was the same same...
everyone loves options.
For a capped wind its not as important as the windage knob is used only 2 times for me at matches. Always dial the wind on movers, and single target stages. never any time else unless the wind is super high on a multiple target stage I will dial the first target and have my holdovers subtracted from the first target.
I lose those stinkin little allen wrenches faster than anything BUT in big matches I usually use a tool to rezero the wind. Similar to my tangent, I love love tooless rezero.
I would argue the other side (again what matches you shoot) that NOONE dials wind and having an uncapped turret is a horrible idea in NRL Hunter matches. ha. Just this weekend I know of 2 people that accidentally bumped their windage knob. And when you have 4 min to find range dial and shoot 4 targets, if you waste time dialing wind you will most likely time out.
But as mentioned above, in PRS style I dial with movers and single target stages.
I mentioned thanksgiving and its not deleted. After shooting the scope in a couple matches Burris listened and made changes. Hence the point of R&D. And they told us 2 because we are a lot cooler than anyone else. daaaa (Im not really that cool more special lol)
*(if you know nothing about production you need people to test your product before you ship. im not sure why this is surprising to anyone.)
And Im hyping it because, again this might be shocking, if noone knows about it, noone will buy it. and it is literally revolutionary in the scope world. a removable turret???? im still geeking out.
lol
Regards
DT
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Good call with the .25 mil holds. I really think the SCR and SCR2 are too cluttered. Guess that's why I have 3 Bushy XRS3 with Gap4 ret.
Love the idea of this Burris Pro with SCR-LGBTQ ret though..........nice to see
I may have to try one.
Dang it. Was looking for a production class scope to put on top of my backup Tikka TAC A1. It's $139 over the production limit. Back to buying that new Bushnell XRS 6-36 I go.
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So the design logic was:
An undetermined number of shooters might not ever spin the windage turret back to zero, so no need to make that turret tool less?
That would be a niche category I would think.
I imagine most people will zero the scope and never take the windage cap off again (including myself).
Hence why you see ZCO offering a non locking elevation turret but no mention of a windage turret to match.
One of the uses that seems to be hinted at but not explicitly said for the turret removal is to make it easier to write on the race turret.
I see no real advantage to easily removing the turret rather than do what TT does, unelss it's intended to be removed somewhat frequently for the above use.
I guess there is no reason why you couldn't do the same with the windage turret but as wind is subject to change unlike elevation, and many people just hold wind, and many people leave it capped 99.9% of the time, I guess they didn't see a reason for it.
people acting like its impossible to rezero the turret. the scope comes with an allen just like 100% of all other scopes to rezero the wind.
2 reasons i can see of design logic for not making the windage turret tooless is not wanting a gigantic turret on the side of the scope and keeping costs down. a smaller narrow tooless clutch on the side would be cool tho…
maybe i should do a poll but id be willing to bet its 10:1 or more people who cap it and forget it over wanting an exposed turret to turn…i shoot a ton of matches and RO several a year and i see maybe 1 or 2 shooters on my stages who dial wind on the clock. it just doesn’t happen. i saw 0 do it this weekend with nearly 100 shooters
regards
DT
All I want is a XTR 3i/PRO with illum and a MSR 2 reticle ...
I think the reason most would want a toolless windage is similar to the popularity of TT among the switch barrel crowd like AI and DT where you can swap a barrel to another cartridge in seconds - toolless turrets help quickly adjust (these rifles are amazingly repeatable) when swapping barrels/cartridges.
I swap scopes and barrels around on rifles and don't actually bother to zero the windage turret.
I get not everyone will want to do that but personally doesn't bother me having the windage not zeroes if I never dial it.
I swapped my Pro off of my rimfire rifle yesterday and put it on my AR10 in 6.5 Creedmoor. I'm going to shoot in the Gas Gun division at a regional match on Saturday.
I moved my windage .3 left to get my zero and put my cap back on. Its sitting on 2.2 mils right.
I will confess to zeroing for a couple matches last year. The Hornady PRC in Utah and the Finale in New Mexico were 90 second par times. So I did zero and dial wind on a handful of stages that I used holdovers instead of dialing elevation.
But I get it that it would make better sense to some to go tooless on both turrets.
^Any news on shipments to dealers? Since no SHOT appearance and inventory sitting on shelves, tell them to ship, or just grab me 2 and I'll send you appropriate simolions and a fedex number 
To answer my own Q, just spoke with Burris CS - said not shipping until end of February. To be fair to the lashing I gave MDT earlier today, it doesn't matter if I love the product (XTR3) - they dried up the market for XTR3's in Nov, missed the Xmas season, and will have had a ~4 month product gap by the time these hit dealers. Management is so poor you have to wonder how they stay in business.
