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Rifle Scopes Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

woodshed

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May 7, 2010
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Taken from a Bushnell FFP/Viper PST thread that degenerated into a pissing match. I guess I don't understand this comment. Scott will gladly sell you one of these scopes, they're right on the Liberty Optics website, but then he seems to have no problem whatsoever badmouthing them here. I know they are not the sniper scope dujour as they are not mil/mil and are second focal plane but what about the 6500 is so inferior or lackluster? I have had several 4200 scopes and now own a 6500 Tactical, couldn't be happier as far as a hunting scope is concerned. Glass is on par with all my Zeiss Conquests and the turrets have nice audible clicks, tracks perfectly and the side focus works flawlessly. Aside from being a tactical scope in name only I see no real negatives. What gives? Why would these be labeled as a laughingstock and openly bashed by a dealer who represents them? Anybody else have any bad experiences with this line of scopes? Am I missing something?

P.S. edited cause I can't spell so good

Scott
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

Not excusing Scott for the unprofessional badmouthing of a product that his company "supports", but everything that I have read about the Elite 6500 series is that they simply do not stand up to heavy recoiling rifles for very long. They do seem to find their way back to Bushnell for service quite a bit more than most scopes in this price category. Maybe some of you all have been lucky, but I know of a lot of folks that would not buy them again.
The Elite 4200 series seems to be GTG and I rarely if ever hear anything negative about these scopes or their performance.
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

That's interesting, I had not heard anything about them being recoil sensitive. I have mine mounted in a Larue mount and splitting time between a Rock River Predator in .223 and a Rock River .458 SOCOM carbine, wont' see much more recoil than that. It has survived almost a hundred 300 gr rounds for the SOCOM with out a glitch. It is a joy to shoot groundhogs with on the .223. I had called Scott at Bushnell customer service to inquire about the 3-12X44 FFP 4200 and he said he is not seeing any repairs from those or the 6500 Tactical. I think it's alot of internet commando B.S. as far as Bushnell reliability. I have not had a single failure from a 4200 3-9X40 mounted on my Tar Hunt 12 gauge RSG, 4200 4-16X40 mounted on a Savage 10-ML II, or the 6500 2.5-16X42 on my .458 SOCOM. They all seem to stand up to alot of recoil in my experience.

Scott
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

SWFA carries and would gladly sell you a Barska, BSA, Letherwood, Truglo, ect. if that's what you want even though they are utter pieces of crap. My biggest problem with the 6500's is the glass is inferior for the 4200 when they advertise it as being better.
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

I am just relaying what I have heard from other shooters. I have no axe to grind with Bushnell and as I said, the 4200 series has never been badmouthed by anyone that I shoot with or heard from in my travels.

SWFA can keep all of those toys for the unwashed that think that these are a good deal
smile.gif
My money is too hard to come by to waste it.
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

You know that's the other thing I hear alot of and I can tell you from side by side comparison that the 6500 TActical I have right now is as clear as my Zeiss Conquest and clearer thant he 4200 I have in the safe. The newest Conquest I got had some blurring at the outer edges of the lens, very distracting and it also seemed to be a little more sensitive to proper cheek weld in regards to eye relief. It definitely was not as good as the other 5 Conquest I have had over the last 5 years. the one in question was a 3-9X40 and I have had 3 of those, as well as one 3.5-12x40 and a 4.5-14x44. Maybe I just got a lemon.

Scott
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

The Bushnell glass is pretty damn clear from what I have seen, especially at their prices. Never compared them directly with the Conquests. I would not doubt that the Bushnell at least is in the game with the Conquest's for a great many shooters.
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

Maybe the quality of their glas varies wildly from lot to lot. I can tell you that my 6500 is very clear and has no edge blurring at all. I would be very pissed if my brand new $650 scope had bad glass, I can tell you that much for sure!

Scott
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

Guys,

No question, I lost my cool there. That comment was inappropriate and I vow to watch what I say and write from now on with proper thought and care. I'll be very specific from now on and dispense with emotional generalizations.

If you enjoy your 6500, that is all that matters. They are not really as bad as my statment might make one believe.

Scott
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

Fair enough Scott. My intent was not to bash you for the comment, just shocked that you didn't like them and wondered why it was supposed to be a well known fact that they sucked. What in particular did you dislike about them, just the quasi-tactical setup or the glass? I really like mine so I was experiencing a little butthurt from your comment.

Scott
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

Scott,

That's OK, bashing us is currently en vogue, some of it self-inflicted, some of it not. I need to take care of what I can control, and not sweat the rest.

You've hit on something for me.

Back in the day, the University of Florida football team had a history of being talented, but under-acheiving, with very few SEC titles back prior to 1990, what was earned was often stripped away for NCAA violations. But more often than not the Gators couldn't hold up to the other big dogs in the SEC, the Alabamas, the Georgia's, the Tennessee's. We were the cute, lovable little losers down in Gainesville. Then in 1990, the Ol Ball Coach, Steve Spurrier was hired. The 97 pound football weakling grew into a full fledged bully, kicking the crap out of the competition for many years in the '90s. When the Gators would visit other teams stadiums the level of hatred for them would reach fever pitch. They would say nasty things about Spurrier and the hated Gators. After one game, a reporter asked Spurrier why he thought his team would receive the venom and nasty name calling his team would be a target of. His answer was "because they can't call us losers anymore".

Back when I started, when I was getting my tail kicked on the internet and selling just a few scopes a year, other industry and competing dealer types would wink, slap me on the fanny, and give me all this cheap praise. They could give a rat's butt what I wrote or said. I was irrelevant.

Now, nearly 8 years later, I get emails and PMs from industry types, not happy (or real happy) with what I write or say, other dealers scream to the manufacturers about us, the sledding gets tougher, you get scrutinized, you make enemies, the drama hits a fever pitch. That comes with success, I guess, and I suppose it means we arrived. Because it is clear to me that people now care what I think. With that priviledge comes an awesome responsibility. I am sorry for the butthurt, but that is collateral damage. I need to see the downstream effects before I pull the trigger. Know your target, and what's beyond, right?

Take any pile of raw data (e.g., what I've written on the web the last 8 years) and anyone with enough time and an agenda can come up with any conclusion they desire, i.e., I'm GTG, I'm full of crap, I'm an expert, I'm a clown, I'm honest, I'm a snake, yadda yadda yadda. The only truth is that I'm no longer invisible.

Again, sorry for the slight, my committment to you and any that care is to exercise full judgement and consideration before the written and spoken word, and to take the responsibility you, the customer, entrust me with very seriously, to another level of maturity and perspective.

Not that this has been a huge problem the last year or so but the margin for error without consequences seems to be very small now. I accept that.

Scott
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

part of the problem is when you post here you are posting as LibertyOptics and not necessarily as Scott.
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

The reason I buy from Scott is specifically because he goes out of his way to tell you what he thinks about a product; even those that he carries. He knows more about the products he sells than I do, and the fact that he will keep me from buying the wrong product for my application is a major reason why I buy only from him.
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

in reference to the bushnell 4200,,i had the 6x24x50x30mm tactical MD model,,when you cranked up the power ring the outer perimeters became fuzzy and would make the images wavy when searching for the target. sold the bushnell scope. put one of my leupolds back on the rifle. Cleared up(literally)that problem. my.02worth.
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

I guarantee that if you bought the Bushnell from Scott and wound up having problems later you would be glad you bought it from Scott....

Don't know woodshed from Adam, but I do know Scott is a stand up guy that believes in integrity over salesman BS.

As to the online comments, I've been employed in the industry less weeks that Scott has years and have already found restrint very difficult.....

You rock on Scott!
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

I bought the 4.5-30 Bushnell 6500from Scott as a placeholder scope.

It was just that. I have since gotten rid of it, and have not had any regret whatsoever. At all.
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

scott and liberty are about as good as they come......
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

I just got rid of my 4.5x30x50MM Mil dot Elite 6500. Above 25x it was a little fuzzy. I think the 4200 glass is better. I also have a 2.5x16x50MM 6500.Its glass is fine,but I'm suspicious of its tracking accuracy ???? I won't buy another one.
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iron Worker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got rid of my 4.5x30x50MM Mil dot Elite 6500. Above 25x it was a little fuzzy. I think the 4200 glass is better. I also have a 2.5x16x50MM 6500.Its glass is fine,but I'm suspicious of its tracking accuracy ???? I won't buy another one.</div></div>

The way I understand it from talking to Bushnell at SHOT, the glass is the same (i.e., you shouldn't see any difference at the same magnification) but the 6500's take the magnification higher. This will, of course, reduce the picture quality relative to the other scopes at a lower magnification.

I've been happy enough with my 4200's that all of my rifles have them -- although I do have a Viper PST on order. We'll see how it compares.
grin.gif
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guarantee that if you bought the Bushnell from Scott and wound up having problems later you would be glad you bought it from Scott....

Don't know woodshed from Adam, but I do know Scott is a stand up guy that believes in integrity over salesman BS.

As to the online comments, I've been employed in the industry less weeks that Scott has years and have already found restrint very difficult.....

You rock on Scott! </div></div>

word!
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

I buy from Scott because the truth comes before the sale from him. How many others can say that?
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

I was gonna say, did you ask LO?
Ordering from Scott is a good way to go IMO.
You might wanna study up on what MAP means though.; )
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

A couple of comments on Elite 6500 glass.

At the same magnification, the overall image quality of the Elite 6500 seems to be very similar to that of Elite 4200.

That having been said, I do not particularly like the 4.5-30x50 version of this Elite 6500. At higher magnifications, the image quality is not as good as some other comparable scopes.

On the other hand, the 2.5-16x42 Elite 6500 is easily on of my favourite scopes out there. I have a fair amount of mileage with it and it has been quite solid. While image quality is similar to Elite 4200, eyerelief is longer and more flexible. Then there is the extra flexibility of the dynamic range.

ILya
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

We'll glad we have that cleared up. Now Scott, please prey for that truck to pull up and start off loading the PST,s
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffersonv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was gonna say, did you ask LO?
Ordering from Scott is a good way to go IMO.
You might wanna study up on what MAP means though.; ) </div></div>

Maybe I missed something, who needs to study up on MAP? LibertyOptics?
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeBobOutfitters</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffersonv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was gonna say, did you ask LO?
Ordering from Scott is a good way to go IMO.
You might wanna study up on what MAP means though.; ) </div></div>

Maybe I missed something, who needs to study up on MAP? LibertyOptics?</div></div>

In poor taste...
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ker2222</div><div class="ubbcode-body">scott and liberty are about as good as they come......

</div></div>

BIG +1!!!!

Honesty is a big deal to me when it comes to buying a product I don't have the ability to personally evaluate prior to purchasing. Scott does not & WILL NOT blow smoke up your butt just to make a sale. He has taken care of 'Hide members for a long time & allowed them to spend their money wisely by advising them on what equipment would be their best investment based on their budget & applications. You're not going to find many online vendors who share these traits.

Personalities & opinions sometimes clash. Honesty & experience are what are really important...
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

If anyone has a 2.5-16x42 Elite 6500 that they'd like to let go for about $200 or so then I'd be happy to take that industry joke off your hands. I'm a generous guy like that.
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If anyone has a 2.5-16x42 Elite 6500 that they'd like to let go for about $200 or so then I'd be happy to take that industry joke off your hands. I'm a generous guy like that. </div></div>

callin' dibs on Jasonk's sloppy 2nds!
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MTETM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeBobOutfitters</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffersonv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was gonna say, did you ask LO?
Ordering from Scott is a good way to go IMO.
You might wanna study up on what MAP means though.; ) </div></div>

Maybe I missed something, who needs to study up on MAP? LibertyOptics?</div></div>

In poor taste... </div></div>

It was me all the way. NOT LO.
Just wasn't in my world.
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

My Liberty Optics/Scott story:

I had a 3rd gen SH edition IOR scope. I didn't buy it from Scott, I got it used here. It broke on me. After not having it very long. I knew it wasn't the original owner's fault as he is a stand up guy and despite not posting that much, is listened to when he does. Besides, it was a warranty issue. I had ordered the rings for it from Scott and knowing he was a big seller of the scope got his opinion on it. He said there had been issues with the 1st gen and 2nd gen but only 1 or 2 cases so far with the 3rd gen.

So, I called Scott. Explained the problem. He said that since I had originally asked, he had gotten a bunch of calls about them. He gave me the info for IOR and the phone number to call as well as told me who to ask for by name. He was very apologetic, despite not even being the one that sold me the scope. He was forthright about his concern with the line of the FFP 3-18X that the SH edition came from. I was very disappointed in the scope as it was my first big $ scope. But Scott really helped me out when he didn't have to. There are only so many hours in a business day and while I don't know how many people if any He had working for him in 2008/early 2009, I know he had to busy. But he stayed on the phone with me, listening to my description of the issue, measures I'd taken to diagnose if it was the scope or not, etc etc. Probably a good 15 minutes of talk time. That's quite a chunk of his business time to help out someone whose only purchase from him was in good working order.

If he carries a scope I want in the future, and I am buying it-He will be getting my business.
 
Re: Bushnell 6500 industry inside joke Liberty Optic

I'm with CavScout1983,Scott has been real good to deal with,the truth,not what you want to hear.Nice thing is,the price he tells you is the price you pay,even on small items like rings.Never a surprise CC charge or Rip Off S&H charges like Natchez charged me once.$14.99 S&H for a swivel end cap on a Browning Auto-5 that did not weigh an ounce,nice surprise!!! Then we have Cabelas.......