Would like to get a mil-dot FFP mil/mil system on a Savage 110 FCP-K in 300 win mag. Had narrowed down to the new SS scopes (3x9 or 10xHD) or Bushnell 4200 3x12x44. The Viper PST is getting WAY to many orders for not being out yet so would like to get something quicker that has actually been reviewed positively by alot of guys. So for the scopes that are actually obtainable what are your recommendations in the $600-800 range? Also percieved limitations with a fixed 10x (SS HD) on a long range targets (1000+ yds). Thanks!
Rifle Scopes Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
- Thread starter skeeter355
- Start date
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
I was looking at the same two scopes, decided to go with the SS as it is tried and true. The 4200 is appealing, has more magnification, and ill reticle, so it does have its pluses over the SS. I am kinda hesitant on new models.
I was looking at the same two scopes, decided to go with the SS as it is tried and true. The 4200 is appealing, has more magnification, and ill reticle, so it does have its pluses over the SS. I am kinda hesitant on new models.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
of the ones you listed, i would go with the bushnell 3-12x44. you mentioned 1000 plus yards and though it is doable with a fixed 10 or variable at 9x, it is not ideal. i am pretty sure that you will be wishing for more magnification. you also dont lose anything on the low end as both scopes begin at 3 power.
so basically, i prefer variable over fixed, and more than 10 power for 1000+ yard shots. an ill reticle is nice too. of course it all depends on what exactly you are using it for, but from what you have mentioned the bushnell would get my vote. the others are great scopes too and i would not hesitate to put them on my rifle.
of the ones you listed, i would go with the bushnell 3-12x44. you mentioned 1000 plus yards and though it is doable with a fixed 10 or variable at 9x, it is not ideal. i am pretty sure that you will be wishing for more magnification. you also dont lose anything on the low end as both scopes begin at 3 power.
so basically, i prefer variable over fixed, and more than 10 power for 1000+ yard shots. an ill reticle is nice too. of course it all depends on what exactly you are using it for, but from what you have mentioned the bushnell would get my vote. the others are great scopes too and i would not hesitate to put them on my rifle.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
What about the 24X bushnell FFP? I have heard both good and bad about it, the bad mainly that it doesn't have a lot of internal adjustment.
edit: illumination is green, another thing some like and others don't.
What about the 24X bushnell FFP? I have heard both good and bad about it, the bad mainly that it doesn't have a lot of internal adjustment.
edit: illumination is green, another thing some like and others don't.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
Well I might go with the Bushnell for the 300 Win and the 3x9 SS for my AR-10. It does make sense for more magnification for the longer range gun.
Well I might go with the Bushnell for the 300 Win and the 3x9 SS for my AR-10. It does make sense for more magnification for the longer range gun.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
We are getting some complaints and returns on the Bushnell. Three most common complaints in order are:
1. Critical eye relief
2. Illumination leak/bleed
3. Green markings on dials
Here's a few pictures to further illustrate.
It is hard to get a picture of "critical eye relief" so to speak but these images depict what your view looks like if you are slightly off center. Primarily an issue on the higher end of the power range.
Images of the illumination leak/bleed are very easy to take because it is pretty major. Primarily an issue on the high end of the illumination level.
It comes out of both ends but much more from the objective end.
With the lights off you can see that it actually projects a beam.
The markings on all the adjustments being green does make them very difficult to read in low light. It was hard to capture it with my camera but you can still tell.
The good news is that you won't have to worry about white markings on your turrets giving your position away.
We are getting some complaints and returns on the Bushnell. Three most common complaints in order are:
1. Critical eye relief
2. Illumination leak/bleed
3. Green markings on dials
Here's a few pictures to further illustrate.
It is hard to get a picture of "critical eye relief" so to speak but these images depict what your view looks like if you are slightly off center. Primarily an issue on the higher end of the power range.
Images of the illumination leak/bleed are very easy to take because it is pretty major. Primarily an issue on the high end of the illumination level.
It comes out of both ends but much more from the objective end.
With the lights off you can see that it actually projects a beam.
The markings on all the adjustments being green does make them very difficult to read in low light. It was hard to capture it with my camera but you can still tell.
The good news is that you won't have to worry about white markings on your turrets giving your position away.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
My scope on my rifle is the Super Sniper 3-9 variable.
The Super Sniper is your best bet. The reticle is pretty thin and works well for LR work, had mine on my 7mm-08 out to 1160 yards and hit on a 10x12 plate. The higher magnification is usefull but not nesecarry for less than 1500 yards. The SS is very budget minded and fits a perfect niche of FFP, MIL/MIL and 20 mils of elevation, my 7mm-08 zerod at 300yards with 162amax at 2600fps is right near the bottom of travel. The SS also has resetable turrets, once you zero just loosen turret and move to the "0" mark.
My scope on my rifle is the Super Sniper 3-9 variable.
The Super Sniper is your best bet. The reticle is pretty thin and works well for LR work, had mine on my 7mm-08 out to 1160 yards and hit on a 10x12 plate. The higher magnification is usefull but not nesecarry for less than 1500 yards. The SS is very budget minded and fits a perfect niche of FFP, MIL/MIL and 20 mils of elevation, my 7mm-08 zerod at 300yards with 162amax at 2600fps is right near the bottom of travel. The SS also has resetable turrets, once you zero just loosen turret and move to the "0" mark.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
Illumination and green markings aren't an issue to me, but the eye relief is. Are both the 12 and 24X models affected by this?
edit: bushnell turrets come off easy, and I imagine you could paint the numbers white if you wished (if they are etched in you could probably color the the same way people color in the markings on AR lowers).
Illumination and green markings aren't an issue to me, but the eye relief is. Are both the 12 and 24X models affected by this?
edit: bushnell turrets come off easy, and I imagine you could paint the numbers white if you wished (if they are etched in you could probably color the the same way people color in the markings on AR lowers).
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
From someone who works for Bushnell in Overland Park, Kansas I can tell you that both the illumination bleed and color of the dial markings are being addressed. I know that doesn't solve the issue at hand, but at least you know that someone is listening. Markings will be changed to a tan color, so they are more visible. The illumination bleed is also being addressed and corrected. Unfortunately I am not sure of the timeframe to implement the changes.
From someone who works for Bushnell in Overland Park, Kansas I can tell you that both the illumination bleed and color of the dial markings are being addressed. I know that doesn't solve the issue at hand, but at least you know that someone is listening. Markings will be changed to a tan color, so they are more visible. The illumination bleed is also being addressed and corrected. Unfortunately I am not sure of the timeframe to implement the changes.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
I've owned a 3-9 SS for several months now. I shoot mostly steel out to 800 yards witha M1A NM. This is plenty of scope and I have no problems with paralax.
I've owned a 3-9 SS for several months now. I shoot mostly steel out to 800 yards witha M1A NM. This is plenty of scope and I have no problems with paralax.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
Grendel 6.5
I already have the Bushnell enroute. Will Bushnell address these problems if I send it to them after they get the fixes in the works? Or should I return this scope and wait until they update the scope?
Skeeter
Grendel 6.5
I already have the Bushnell enroute. Will Bushnell address these problems if I send it to them after they get the fixes in the works? Or should I return this scope and wait until they update the scope?
Skeeter
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWFA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We are getting some complaints and returns on the Bushnell. Three most common complaints in order are:
1. Critical eye relief
2. Illumination leak/bleed
3. Green markings on dials
Here's a few pictures to further illustrate.
It is hard to get a picture of "critical eye relief" so to speak but these images depict what your view looks like if you are slightly off center. Primarily an issue on the higher end of the power range.
Images of the illumination leak/bleed are very easy to take because it is pretty major. Primarily an issue on the high end of the illumination level.
It comes out of both ends but much more from the objective end.
With the lights off you can see that it actually projects a beam.
The markings on all the adjustments being green does make them very difficult to read in low light. It was hard to capture it with my camera but you can still tell.
The good news is that you won't have to worry about white markings on your turrets giving your position away. </div></div>
I just saw this post right now and looked through my 3-12x44 with the illumination all the way up.I'm not sticking up for Bushnell's mistake here but mine doesn't even come close to that much green bleed.It has a little but not like that.
Steve
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWFA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We are getting some complaints and returns on the Bushnell. Three most common complaints in order are:
1. Critical eye relief
2. Illumination leak/bleed
3. Green markings on dials
Here's a few pictures to further illustrate.
It is hard to get a picture of "critical eye relief" so to speak but these images depict what your view looks like if you are slightly off center. Primarily an issue on the higher end of the power range.
Images of the illumination leak/bleed are very easy to take because it is pretty major. Primarily an issue on the high end of the illumination level.
It comes out of both ends but much more from the objective end.
With the lights off you can see that it actually projects a beam.
The markings on all the adjustments being green does make them very difficult to read in low light. It was hard to capture it with my camera but you can still tell.
The good news is that you won't have to worry about white markings on your turrets giving your position away. </div></div>
I just saw this post right now and looked through my 3-12x44 with the illumination all the way up.I'm not sticking up for Bushnell's mistake here but mine doesn't even come close to that much green bleed.It has a little but not like that.
Steve
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
Skeeter355,
I will make sure that if you have an issue it will get resolved. I have had Tom Fuller(10th place Snipers Hide Cup) shooting this scope and his wasn't nearly as bad as what SWFA was showing. It appears when the intensity is turned up to the max level, if it isn't on max then it isn't really noticeable.
We are working on the fix, but I am not 100% sure when the fix will be implemented.
Skeeter355,
I will make sure that if you have an issue it will get resolved. I have had Tom Fuller(10th place Snipers Hide Cup) shooting this scope and his wasn't nearly as bad as what SWFA was showing. It appears when the intensity is turned up to the max level, if it isn't on max then it isn't really noticeable.
We are working on the fix, but I am not 100% sure when the fix will be implemented.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I just saw this post right now and looked through my 3-12x44 with the illumination all the way up.I'm not sticking up for Bushnell's mistake here but mine doesn't even come close to that much green bleed.It has a little but not like that.
Steve</div></div>
Could be some have more 'bleed' than others. I wish there was a local place here in Sacramento that stocked them so I could see for myself.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I just saw this post right now and looked through my 3-12x44 with the illumination all the way up.I'm not sticking up for Bushnell's mistake here but mine doesn't even come close to that much green bleed.It has a little but not like that.
Steve</div></div>
Could be some have more 'bleed' than others. I wish there was a local place here in Sacramento that stocked them so I could see for myself.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
Grendel 6.5,
I tried to send you a PM, but you have your settings set to not accept any. That is fine, but would you mind sending me a PM or email as to who I can contact at Bushnell with regard to the "Elite® Bullet-Proof
'No Questions Asked' Warranty"?
My email address is in my profile and your correspondence & help will be much appreciated...
Grendel 6.5,
I tried to send you a PM, but you have your settings set to not accept any. That is fine, but would you mind sending me a PM or email as to who I can contact at Bushnell with regard to the "Elite® Bullet-Proof
'No Questions Asked' Warranty"?
My email address is in my profile and your correspondence & help will be much appreciated...
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWFA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We are getting some complaints and returns on the Bushnell. Three most common complaints in order are:
1. Critical eye relief
2. Illumination leak/bleed
3. Green markings on dials
Here's a few pictures to further illustrate.
It is hard to get a picture of "critical eye relief" so to speak but these images depict what your view looks like if you are slightly off center. Primarily an issue on the higher end of the power range.
Images of the illumination leak/bleed are very easy to take because it is pretty major. Primarily an issue on the high end of the illumination level.
It comes out of both ends but much more from the objective end.
With the lights off you can see that it actually projects a beam.
The markings on all the adjustments being green does make them very difficult to read in low light. It was hard to capture it with my camera but you can still tell.
The good news is that you won't have to worry about white markings on your turrets giving your position away. </div></div>
Well hey there SWFA, how well does that Super Sniper Illuminated Reticle work?
Oh yeah, it looks like this, doesn't it?
![url]](http://[url="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/SGMBristol/FlatBlackPrimerCoat.jpg"]http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/SGMBristol/FlatBlackPrimerCoat.jpg[/url])
Frankly, I'd rather be able to turn that Bushnell illuminated reticle down than to not have an illuminated reticle at all.
Then again, that's just because I could never get the Taliban to fight on "Banker's hours" only.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWFA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We are getting some complaints and returns on the Bushnell. Three most common complaints in order are:
1. Critical eye relief
2. Illumination leak/bleed
3. Green markings on dials
Here's a few pictures to further illustrate.
It is hard to get a picture of "critical eye relief" so to speak but these images depict what your view looks like if you are slightly off center. Primarily an issue on the higher end of the power range.
Images of the illumination leak/bleed are very easy to take because it is pretty major. Primarily an issue on the high end of the illumination level.
It comes out of both ends but much more from the objective end.
With the lights off you can see that it actually projects a beam.
The markings on all the adjustments being green does make them very difficult to read in low light. It was hard to capture it with my camera but you can still tell.
The good news is that you won't have to worry about white markings on your turrets giving your position away. </div></div>
Well hey there SWFA, how well does that Super Sniper Illuminated Reticle work?
Oh yeah, it looks like this, doesn't it?
Frankly, I'd rather be able to turn that Bushnell illuminated reticle down than to not have an illuminated reticle at all.
Then again, that's just because I could never get the Taliban to fight on "Banker's hours" only.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
While I'm a big fan of what SWFA's doing with the SS line, I'm not sure that 3-9 would be a good fit for a 300 Win, but I like magnification.
While I'm a big fan of what SWFA's doing with the SS line, I'm not sure that 3-9 would be a good fit for a 300 Win, but I like magnification.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
You would actually trust a bushnell to be on your weapon 24/7 in a combat zone!? Don't get me wrong, I have and use several bushnell scopes and have been considering this exact scope, but it would be for a rifle that will never see a situation where my life may rely on it. For those situations I have a USO. However I have been to the Overland Park KS repair facility and have been very impressed with the guys who work there they have taken care of me.
You would actually trust a bushnell to be on your weapon 24/7 in a combat zone!? Don't get me wrong, I have and use several bushnell scopes and have been considering this exact scope, but it would be for a rifle that will never see a situation where my life may rely on it. For those situations I have a USO. However I have been to the Overland Park KS repair facility and have been very impressed with the guys who work there they have taken care of me.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ajwcotton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You would actually trust a bushnell to be on your weapon 24/7 in a combat zone!? Don't get me wrong, I have and use several bushnell scopes and have been considering this exact scope, but it would be for a rifle that will never see a situation where my life may rely on it. For those situations I have a USO. However I have been to the Overland Park KS repair facility and have been very impressed with the guys who work there they have taken care of me. </div></div>
USO? The original question is "Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP". What in the world does inserting USO have to do with the choice between "Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP"?
Of course I would choose a USO if that was the question. But it's NOT even in the equation. Duh!
The question is between a Bushnell FFP (which has an illuminated reticle with <span style="font-weight: bold">multiple setting</span>, not just maximum intensity) or a Super Sniper FFP (which doesn't even offer an illuminated reticle). Easy choice for me. I'd like the illuminated reticle option that I can turn down or OFF if necessary verses the non-illuminated reticle only option.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ajwcotton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You would actually trust a bushnell to be on your weapon 24/7 in a combat zone!? Don't get me wrong, I have and use several bushnell scopes and have been considering this exact scope, but it would be for a rifle that will never see a situation where my life may rely on it. For those situations I have a USO. However I have been to the Overland Park KS repair facility and have been very impressed with the guys who work there they have taken care of me. </div></div>
USO? The original question is "Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP". What in the world does inserting USO have to do with the choice between "Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP"?
Of course I would choose a USO if that was the question. But it's NOT even in the equation. Duh!
The question is between a Bushnell FFP (which has an illuminated reticle with <span style="font-weight: bold">multiple setting</span>, not just maximum intensity) or a Super Sniper FFP (which doesn't even offer an illuminated reticle). Easy choice for me. I'd like the illuminated reticle option that I can turn down or OFF if necessary verses the non-illuminated reticle only option.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
Regarding the turrets, possibly a Kenton Industries replacement turret? I've been considering the same scope and probably would lean to a (OK, lazy man) ranging turret from Kenton. My alternative scope is Sightron III 10x fixed. Yes, I'd like a USO ST-10 but can't find one in basic (meaning less than $1,500. with extras). ANyway, the last two are a digression from the initial subject. I very well may wind up with that Bushnell, myself. It will be on an Armalite AR-30, .338 LM.
Regarding the turrets, possibly a Kenton Industries replacement turret? I've been considering the same scope and probably would lean to a (OK, lazy man) ranging turret from Kenton. My alternative scope is Sightron III 10x fixed. Yes, I'd like a USO ST-10 but can't find one in basic (meaning less than $1,500. with extras). ANyway, the last two are a digression from the initial subject. I very well may wind up with that Bushnell, myself. It will be on an Armalite AR-30, .338 LM.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
My 4200 12x FFP doesn't bleed like that, even on the highest setting. That looks pretty gnarly. Nor have I had eye relief issues nor green turrets markings. Mine musta been made on Tuesday.
I like it so much I'm thinking of getting the 24x model, as well, for the FCP-K and then move the 12x to a new Accustocked 10 Precision Carbine.
I love Bushnell Elite scopes. I'd fuk mine if I could figure out a way to do it.
(Thru the sun shade, mebe?)
Edit ... well I'll be dipped in shiite. I <span style="font-style: italic">do </span>have green markings. Got sump'n ta fix dat, tho.
My 4200 12x FFP doesn't bleed like that, even on the highest setting. That looks pretty gnarly. Nor have I had eye relief issues nor green turrets markings. Mine musta been made on Tuesday.
I love Bushnell Elite scopes. I'd fuk mine if I could figure out a way to do it.
(Thru the sun shade, mebe?)
Edit ... well I'll be dipped in shiite. I <span style="font-style: italic">do </span>have green markings. Got sump'n ta fix dat, tho.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
I use the 10x at 900 yds. My 16x SS is of course a little better but i don't think it's too bad using the 10 fixed. I wish they would make a 4-16X42 SS in MIL/MIL. That would make my day
I use the 10x at 900 yds. My 16x SS is of course a little better but i don't think it's too bad using the 10 fixed. I wish they would make a 4-16X42 SS in MIL/MIL. That would make my day
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zenitram nai</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wish they would make a 4-16X42 SS in MIL/MIL.</div></div>
I'd be like all ovah dat.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zenitram nai</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wish they would make a 4-16X42 SS in MIL/MIL.</div></div>
I'd be like all ovah dat.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snakum</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zenitram nai</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wish they would make a 4-16X42 SS in MIL/MIL.</div></div>
I'd be like all ovah dat. </div></div>
would be a popular scope for sure....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snakum</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zenitram nai</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wish they would make a 4-16X42 SS in MIL/MIL.</div></div>
I'd be like all ovah dat. </div></div>
would be a popular scope for sure....
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
I agree I would love to see SS come out with a 4-16 mil/mil FFP with the HD glass.
I agree I would love to see SS come out with a 4-16 mil/mil FFP with the HD glass.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
They made the Xotic scopes for awhile which were that albeit no HD glass, not made anymore though.
They made the Xotic scopes for awhile which were that albeit no HD glass, not made anymore though.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
Illumination problems aside . . . has anyone looked through both, and can they comment on which one has better clarity? I'm leaning toward the SS, primarily because the eye relief issues, but if the Bushnell has better glass, I may be able to live with it.
Illumination problems aside . . . has anyone looked through both, and can they comment on which one has better clarity? I'm leaning toward the SS, primarily because the eye relief issues, but if the Bushnell has better glass, I may be able to live with it.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
4200 glass is better than SS glass.
I would get the SS if you were using it at 600 or less yards for shooting larger targets, IE a steel shoot. For target shooting I would want more magnification. I think the 24X bushnell is the ticket for me, just wish Vortex would hurry the hell up and get the PST's out.
4200 glass is better than SS glass.
I would get the SS if you were using it at 600 or less yards for shooting larger targets, IE a steel shoot. For target shooting I would want more magnification. I think the 24X bushnell is the ticket for me, just wish Vortex would hurry the hell up and get the PST's out.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
I'm worried that the first run of PST's are already sold out.Since I don't have one on preorder and I'd have to wait another 2-3 months from when the first run comes out.
I just sold most of my "non" mil/mil FFP scopes and I'm going to buy another B 3-12FFP for now.Unfortunately one of my rifles is going to have to sit in the safe unused for a while
.
Steve
I'm worried that the first run of PST's are already sold out.Since I don't have one on preorder and I'd have to wait another 2-3 months from when the first run comes out.
I just sold most of my "non" mil/mil FFP scopes and I'm going to buy another B 3-12FFP for now.Unfortunately one of my rifles is going to have to sit in the safe unused for a while
Steve
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">4200 glass is better than SS glass.
</div></div>
Not the case on the two scopes being compared.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">4200 glass is better than SS glass.
</div></div>
Not the case on the two scopes being compared.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
"4200 glass is better than SS glass."
Probably made by the same little old Japanese man in the same factory outside Tokyo. If one is better than the other it's likely only because he drank too much Saki the night before and wasn't watching the temps on the display. If he keeps doing it I'll personally fly over and beat his old ass. I'm old, too, but he's ancient and tiny and he drinks a lot. I think I can take him.
"4200 glass is better than SS glass."
Probably made by the same little old Japanese man in the same factory outside Tokyo. If one is better than the other it's likely only because he drank too much Saki the night before and wasn't watching the temps on the display. If he keeps doing it I'll personally fly over and beat his old ass. I'm old, too, but he's ancient and tiny and he drinks a lot. I think I can take him.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snakum</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"4200 glass is better than SS glass."
Probably made by the same little old Japanese man in the same factory outside Tokyo. If one is better than the other it's likely only because he drank too much Saki the night before and wasn't watching the temps on the display. If he keeps doing it I'll personally fly over and beat his old ass. I'm old, too, but he's ancient and tiny and he drinks a lot. I think I can take him. </div></div>
Hahaha.
I was on the understanding that the SS were made by Bushnell, at least thats what I was told. Surely there cant be much difference.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snakum</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"4200 glass is better than SS glass."
Probably made by the same little old Japanese man in the same factory outside Tokyo. If one is better than the other it's likely only because he drank too much Saki the night before and wasn't watching the temps on the display. If he keeps doing it I'll personally fly over and beat his old ass. I'm old, too, but he's ancient and tiny and he drinks a lot. I think I can take him. </div></div>
Hahaha.
I was on the understanding that the SS were made by Bushnell, at least thats what I was told. Surely there cant be much difference.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snakum</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"4200 glass is better than SS glass."
Probably made by the same little old Japanese man in the same factory outside Tokyo. If one is better than the other it's likely only because he drank too much Saki the night before and wasn't watching the temps on the display. If he keeps doing it I'll personally fly over and beat his old ass. I'm old, too, but he's ancient and tiny and he drinks a lot. I think I can take him. </div></div>
Buy both and decide for yourself.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snakum</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"4200 glass is better than SS glass."
Probably made by the same little old Japanese man in the same factory outside Tokyo. If one is better than the other it's likely only because he drank too much Saki the night before and wasn't watching the temps on the display. If he keeps doing it I'll personally fly over and beat his old ass. I'm old, too, but he's ancient and tiny and he drinks a lot. I think I can take him. </div></div>
Buy both and decide for yourself.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snakum</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"4200 glass is better than SS glass."
Probably made by the same little old Japanese man in the same factory outside Tokyo. If one is better than the other it's likely only because he drank too much Saki the night before and wasn't watching the temps on the display. If he keeps doing it I'll personally fly over and beat his old ass. I'm old, too, but he's ancient and tiny and he drinks a lot. I think I can take him. </div></div>
Buy both and decide for yourself. </div></div>
wouldn't that be nice. As much as I'd love to, it's just not worth the argument with the wife. I don't have "Full Spectrum Dominance" when it comes to that arena, so saving money takes presidence over buying myself toys. Since I don't employ my rifles on anything but paper and deer, I'd hard pressed to convince the wife that there is a need to buy both just to try them out. Which is why I come on this forum and ask a whole shit-ton of questions. Just tryin' to make my dollars count.
On that not, I really do appreciate being able to tap into the vast knowledge and experience available on this board.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snakum</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"4200 glass is better than SS glass."
Probably made by the same little old Japanese man in the same factory outside Tokyo. If one is better than the other it's likely only because he drank too much Saki the night before and wasn't watching the temps on the display. If he keeps doing it I'll personally fly over and beat his old ass. I'm old, too, but he's ancient and tiny and he drinks a lot. I think I can take him. </div></div>
Buy both and decide for yourself. </div></div>
wouldn't that be nice. As much as I'd love to, it's just not worth the argument with the wife. I don't have "Full Spectrum Dominance" when it comes to that arena, so saving money takes presidence over buying myself toys. Since I don't employ my rifles on anything but paper and deer, I'd hard pressed to convince the wife that there is a need to buy both just to try them out. Which is why I come on this forum and ask a whole shit-ton of questions. Just tryin' to make my dollars count.
On that not, I really do appreciate being able to tap into the vast knowledge and experience available on this board.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Utnapishtim</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wife</div></div>
I don't have one of these - what does it do that prevents you from buying something on the internet?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Utnapishtim</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wife</div></div>
I don't have one of these - what does it do that prevents you from buying something on the internet?
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Utnapishtim</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wife</div></div>
I don't have one of these - what does it do that prevents you from buying something on the internet?
</div></div>
If you have purchased one of these "wife" things, been issued one, or found one on your own, they can make your life a living hell when spending too much time and/or money on hobbies. I got lucky cuz the one I was issued this time loves to shoot, too.
"If the United States Army wanted you to have a wife and family they would have issued you one at Benning!" - My old 1stSgt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Utnapishtim</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wife</div></div>
I don't have one of these - what does it do that prevents you from buying something on the internet?
</div></div>
If you have purchased one of these "wife" things, been issued one, or found one on your own, they can make your life a living hell when spending too much time and/or money on hobbies. I got lucky cuz the one I was issued this time loves to shoot, too.
"If the United States Army wanted you to have a wife and family they would have issued you one at Benning!" - My old 1stSgt
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trigger happy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I was on the understanding that the SS were made by Bushnell, at least thats what I was told. Surely there cant be much difference. </div></div>
Incorrect, Bushnell does not make any of our products. The new 3-9x42 and 10xHD are not even made in the same factory as the original 10x, 16x and 20x. The new scopes coming to market are totally different animals they do not even share any common componets, lens types, coatings, etc.
Yes, there can be much difference. Here is Frank's review if you have not seen it or read it.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1394543#Post1394543
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trigger happy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I was on the understanding that the SS were made by Bushnell, at least thats what I was told. Surely there cant be much difference. </div></div>
Incorrect, Bushnell does not make any of our products. The new 3-9x42 and 10xHD are not even made in the same factory as the original 10x, 16x and 20x. The new scopes coming to market are totally different animals they do not even share any common componets, lens types, coatings, etc.
Yes, there can be much difference. Here is Frank's review if you have not seen it or read it.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1394543#Post1394543
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWFA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trigger happy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I was on the understanding that the SS were made by Bushnell, at least thats what I was told. Surely there cant be much difference. </div></div>
Incorrect, Bushnell does not make any of our products. The new 3-9x42 and 10xHD are not even made in the same factory as the original 10x, 16x and 20x. The new scopes coming to market are totally different animals they do not even share any common componets, lens types, coatings, etc.
Yes, there can be much difference. Here is Frank's review if you have not seen it or read it.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1394543#Post1394543 </div></div>
Sorry I misunderstood that. I was told by ya'll that Bushnell handles any warranty though.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWFA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trigger happy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I was on the understanding that the SS were made by Bushnell, at least thats what I was told. Surely there cant be much difference. </div></div>
Incorrect, Bushnell does not make any of our products. The new 3-9x42 and 10xHD are not even made in the same factory as the original 10x, 16x and 20x. The new scopes coming to market are totally different animals they do not even share any common componets, lens types, coatings, etc.
Yes, there can be much difference. Here is Frank's review if you have not seen it or read it.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1394543#Post1394543 </div></div>
Sorry I misunderstood that. I was told by ya'll that Bushnell handles any warranty though.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
Tasco had always handled the import and warranthy work for us and when Bushnell bought tasco we asked them if they could do the same.
Tasco had always handled the import and warranthy work for us and when Bushnell bought tasco we asked them if they could do the same.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snakum</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.. well I'll be dipped in shiite. I <span style="font-style: italic">do </span>have green markings. Got sump'n ta fix dat, tho. </div></div>
Would mind taking a picture of your fix and post what you used so that we can use it to help our customers and hopefully stop some of the returns?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snakum</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.. well I'll be dipped in shiite. I <span style="font-style: italic">do </span>have green markings. Got sump'n ta fix dat, tho. </div></div>
Would mind taking a picture of your fix and post what you used so that we can use it to help our customers and hopefully stop some of the returns?
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
One could read into SWFA's postings here that they do not like profit margin on Bushnell as much as SS.
My only Bushnell at this time is a 6500 4.5-30x50. I have been quite pleased with it. Now if they only did that one in FFP with mil knobs..........
One could read into SWFA's postings here that they do not like profit margin on Bushnell as much as SS.
My only Bushnell at this time is a 6500 4.5-30x50. I have been quite pleased with it. Now if they only did that one in FFP with mil knobs..........
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
That would be more believeable if we were the only ones with those complaints. There are several threads and many posts of people complaining about the critical eye relief, illumination bleed and green markings. We are simply reporting that our customers have the same complaints. We have a long history of telling it like it is and not pulling any punches. We'd rather our potential customers be informed and not dissappointed because returns are not good for us or our customers. The credit card company gets 3% of the purchase and another 3% of the refund then we have to sell the now NOT new item at a large discount. Bushnell themselves have admited that this scopes has issues that they are working on.
We are putting the returned 3-12s on our SampleList.com site at $599.95. We had two last week with ring marks that already sold, we currently have two with no ring marks but the seal busted on the box.
Get them while you can.
http://www.samplelist.com/Bushnell-3-12x44-Elite-4200-Riflescope-DEMO-B-P551.aspx
That would be more believeable if we were the only ones with those complaints. There are several threads and many posts of people complaining about the critical eye relief, illumination bleed and green markings. We are simply reporting that our customers have the same complaints. We have a long history of telling it like it is and not pulling any punches. We'd rather our potential customers be informed and not dissappointed because returns are not good for us or our customers. The credit card company gets 3% of the purchase and another 3% of the refund then we have to sell the now NOT new item at a large discount. Bushnell themselves have admited that this scopes has issues that they are working on.
We are putting the returned 3-12s on our SampleList.com site at $599.95. We had two last week with ring marks that already sold, we currently have two with no ring marks but the seal busted on the box.
Get them while you can.
http://www.samplelist.com/Bushnell-3-12x44-Elite-4200-Riflescope-DEMO-B-P551.aspx
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
Grendel 6.5
Got the scope in and initial impressions are that there is some bleed through at the lowest illumination setting and I have the eyepiece focus almost all the way in to the stop to get a clear reticle at 12x. This is not mounted and only a quick look as I'm on the road. I will mount it hopefully this weekend and get a better look at the scope.
Skeeter
Grendel 6.5
Got the scope in and initial impressions are that there is some bleed through at the lowest illumination setting and I have the eyepiece focus almost all the way in to the stop to get a clear reticle at 12x. This is not mounted and only a quick look as I'm on the road. I will mount it hopefully this weekend and get a better look at the scope.
Skeeter
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
Thanks to those who did all the testing and "legwork". I was considering the 4200 ffp and backed off based on some of the complaints I read here. I know some of that would have annoyed me. (Intelligence learns from experience; genius learns from the experience of others). That delayed me enough to get a response from Doc and I now have a US Optics on the way for only a bit more money (If I can spend $700. plus rings, I can manage mid $900s).
Regarding the turret color problem: Kenton Industries is one solution - ranging marks, too. Another potential solution, though I'm not sure about its reliability for a scope is there is a paint stick - giant crayon - used to fill in markings on old cameras. Comes in a variety of colors and used to work pretty well. I don't know a brand off-hand but one could check with a camera shop (a real one, not the Best Buy, etc. electronics stores where one buys cameras nowadays). Maybe e-mail bhphotovideo.com in NYC. I'd guess they still do repairs and could tell you what it is.
Thanks to those who did all the testing and "legwork". I was considering the 4200 ffp and backed off based on some of the complaints I read here. I know some of that would have annoyed me. (Intelligence learns from experience; genius learns from the experience of others). That delayed me enough to get a response from Doc and I now have a US Optics on the way for only a bit more money (If I can spend $700. plus rings, I can manage mid $900s).
Regarding the turret color problem: Kenton Industries is one solution - ranging marks, too. Another potential solution, though I'm not sure about its reliability for a scope is there is a paint stick - giant crayon - used to fill in markings on old cameras. Comes in a variety of colors and used to work pretty well. I don't know a brand off-hand but one could check with a camera shop (a real one, not the Best Buy, etc. electronics stores where one buys cameras nowadays). Maybe e-mail bhphotovideo.com in NYC. I'd guess they still do repairs and could tell you what it is.
Re: Bushnell FFP or Super Sniper FFP for 300 Win
SWFA- I see your photos of the Bushnell scope, and let me clarify, I own one. What I can't explain in your photos is why I can't see the reticle and why the "green glow" is symetrical. If you review the post on the scope titled "Bushnell FFP Mil/Mil 6-24X50 Illum Ret" you see the reticle plain as day. However you have a similar photo and no reticle. Also, I'm no genius here but if you view a circle at an angle, as illustrated in your photos, it would not be symetrical. It would be more oval or oblong. I tested my scope as you pictured and I can't recreate any of it. So, I appreciate the info here to a point but something is not adding up.
SWFA- I see your photos of the Bushnell scope, and let me clarify, I own one. What I can't explain in your photos is why I can't see the reticle and why the "green glow" is symetrical. If you review the post on the scope titled "Bushnell FFP Mil/Mil 6-24X50 Illum Ret" you see the reticle plain as day. However you have a similar photo and no reticle. Also, I'm no genius here but if you view a circle at an angle, as illustrated in your photos, it would not be symetrical. It would be more oval or oblong. I tested my scope as you pictured and I can't recreate any of it. So, I appreciate the info here to a point but something is not adding up.
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