Being a newby to reloading I've started out with 9mm. I know most on this forum are rifle guys and appoligize for the deviation but I want to get consistent with my equipment before I take that leap. I've loaded approx. 200 rnds of 115 fmj and was having a little trouble with oal but only about .008, no sweat right, last night I decided to work up some 147gr hornady xtp's and after adjusting my dyes to produce 1.100 and checking it 2x on dummy rds the very next one measured 1.089 one after that was right on, then a couple more shorties, ARGHH!!! took me an hr to get 8rds close enough for comfort. My cases are once fired, case length is right at the recommended trim length and consistent, I measured 20 bullets and they were +/- .004, had my calipers calibrated at work and checked them against another caliper. I just can't seem to figure it out, am I overlooking something? Please help!!! I'm using a lee turret and lee 4 dye set, that is till I boil over and take a BFH to the whole F-ing mess!
c.o.a.l. Fluctuation HELP!!!
- Thread starter Jhick
- Start date
Re: c.o.a.l. Fluctuation HELP!!!
I use Lee dies and with 9MM have never had an issue but i use a Load Master press, I load .308 and .223 rounds with a single stage Lee press and have found I need to be very consistent with the pressure I put on the handle when seating the bullet into the case or I will get some inconsistent readings on the OAL. Not much help i know but its a place to start.
I use Lee dies and with 9MM have never had an issue but i use a Load Master press, I load .308 and .223 rounds with a single stage Lee press and have found I need to be very consistent with the pressure I put on the handle when seating the bullet into the case or I will get some inconsistent readings on the OAL. Not much help i know but its a place to start.
Re: c.o.a.l. Fluctuation HELP!!!
"I just can't seem to figure it out, am I overlooking something?"
Yeah, you are. First, your tiny variations equal no variation and will have no effect at all unless you are already on the ragged edge of a blow-up. That's not likely, so relax a bit.
The die's bullet seating stem and ram height is what controls OAL and case trim length has no effect on OAL. What usually tends to make OAL vary is the actual profile & length of the bullets themselves. Crimping can do it too, especially when it's overdone and/or on the edge of a crimp groove.
A grungy seater MAY be making a difference for you, keeping dies clean inside is always the right thing to do.
We use dies; a dye is a chemical used to color another item.
"I just can't seem to figure it out, am I overlooking something?"
Yeah, you are. First, your tiny variations equal no variation and will have no effect at all unless you are already on the ragged edge of a blow-up. That's not likely, so relax a bit.
The die's bullet seating stem and ram height is what controls OAL and case trim length has no effect on OAL. What usually tends to make OAL vary is the actual profile & length of the bullets themselves. Crimping can do it too, especially when it's overdone and/or on the edge of a crimp groove.
A grungy seater MAY be making a difference for you, keeping dies clean inside is always the right thing to do.
We use dies; a dye is a chemical used to color another item.
Re: c.o.a.l. Fluctuation HELP!!!
First, sorry about the spelling. Second, one of the reasons I'm reloading is to produce MORE consistent ammo than I can buy or at least match it. I just measured 12 Remington factory loaded jhp's and they're all within +/-.0085 I understand that if I can match that I'll be doing very well given tolerance of the bullets themselves. My main issue is that I'm trying to work up to max load with the xtp's for personal defense, maybe you're right that I'm being too anal about it, just trying not to overpressure my loads and like I said earlier this is all in prep of loading rifle rounds for accuracy. If I can't get 9mm's consistent what will I run into with an '06. Just trying to produce the best I can, safely. Also I'm mostly German and i work on aircraft so anal retentiveness runs deep ( that sounds so wrong!) I'll take your advice and make sure everything is spotless before I start again thanks for the help.
First, sorry about the spelling. Second, one of the reasons I'm reloading is to produce MORE consistent ammo than I can buy or at least match it. I just measured 12 Remington factory loaded jhp's and they're all within +/-.0085 I understand that if I can match that I'll be doing very well given tolerance of the bullets themselves. My main issue is that I'm trying to work up to max load with the xtp's for personal defense, maybe you're right that I'm being too anal about it, just trying not to overpressure my loads and like I said earlier this is all in prep of loading rifle rounds for accuracy. If I can't get 9mm's consistent what will I run into with an '06. Just trying to produce the best I can, safely. Also I'm mostly German and i work on aircraft so anal retentiveness runs deep ( that sounds so wrong!) I'll take your advice and make sure everything is spotless before I start again thanks for the help.
Re: c.o.a.l. Fluctuation HELP!!!
'..one of the reasons I'm reloading is to produce MORE consistent ammo than I can buy or at least match it."
Most of us agree with that. Thing is, some of the things that would seem to be significant aren't, some that would seem insignificant aren't. Just got to learn which things to pay attention to AND about how much 'precision' really matters. Even on an airplane there are tolerances that are all the same unless they're exceeded.
Handgun ammo is quite tolerant of things that can be significant in rifles. Dead-on OAL and weighed powder charges are pretty much trivia for most handguns; close is good. Clean your dies with a spritz of cheap spray lube or carb cleaner and make a swab out of a pencil and a bit of toilet paper to twist inside; they need to be clean but not surgically!
For now, relax and enjoy yourself. It will be a long time before you gain enough loading knowledge and skill for most 'accuracy' tweaks to make much difference. What you need to concentrate on is making your ammo <span style="text-decoration: underline">reliable</span> and getting good enough at shooting to know what your ammo is capabile of doing.
'..one of the reasons I'm reloading is to produce MORE consistent ammo than I can buy or at least match it."
Most of us agree with that. Thing is, some of the things that would seem to be significant aren't, some that would seem insignificant aren't. Just got to learn which things to pay attention to AND about how much 'precision' really matters. Even on an airplane there are tolerances that are all the same unless they're exceeded.
Handgun ammo is quite tolerant of things that can be significant in rifles. Dead-on OAL and weighed powder charges are pretty much trivia for most handguns; close is good. Clean your dies with a spritz of cheap spray lube or carb cleaner and make a swab out of a pencil and a bit of toilet paper to twist inside; they need to be clean but not surgically!
For now, relax and enjoy yourself. It will be a long time before you gain enough loading knowledge and skill for most 'accuracy' tweaks to make much difference. What you need to concentrate on is making your ammo <span style="text-decoration: underline">reliable</span> and getting good enough at shooting to know what your ammo is capabile of doing.
Re: c.o.a.l. Fluctuation HELP!!!
Just finished taking everything apart to clean it, pretty dirty already, plus the seating stem doesn't make contact except right around the tip. Looks like I'm on the lookout for a different style hp. Good advice everybody and thanks again!
Just finished taking everything apart to clean it, pretty dirty already, plus the seating stem doesn't make contact except right around the tip. Looks like I'm on the lookout for a different style hp. Good advice everybody and thanks again!
Re: c.o.a.l. Fluctuation HELP!!!
I had the same problem while reloading .223's, But I think i have OCD or some time of illness that makes me want to do things consistently with pin point accuracy, but it will never happen.
I had the same problem while reloading .223's, But I think i have OCD or some time of illness that makes me want to do things consistently with pin point accuracy, but it will never happen.
Re: c.o.a.l. Fluctuation HELP!!!
IF your are measuring case head to bullet tip on a rifle they can/will be all over the place.....
Let Sinclair International become your new best friend
Cheers,
LG
IF your are measuring case head to bullet tip on a rifle they can/will be all over the place.....
Let Sinclair International become your new best friend
Cheers,
LG
Re: c.o.a.l. Fluctuation HELP!!!
I finally got some consistency out of my set up after tearing it all down including dies and cleaning, tweaking, and adjusting every little piece and part. But it's a lot better feeling than I had last night, plus it really familiarized me with everything which is good for a rookie like myself
I finally got some consistency out of my set up after tearing it all down including dies and cleaning, tweaking, and adjusting every little piece and part. But it's a lot better feeling than I had last night, plus it really familiarized me with everything which is good for a rookie like myself
Re: c.o.a.l. Fluctuation HELP!!!
Had that problem loading 40 ammo. I then found that not all my bullets were consistent, in fact there seemed to be 2 completely different bullets in the box. I seperated them all and loaded one then the other. Problem solved at that point. Make sure that your bullets are the same and not mix matched. These were Rainer ballistics, box of 1000 and about 100 wear different in the size of the flat nose. Never ran into that before and didn't pay enough attention, just set it up and started running. Checked about every 20 or so to begin with and began finding differences. I then got to looking and found the problem. It's usually the little things!
Had that problem loading 40 ammo. I then found that not all my bullets were consistent, in fact there seemed to be 2 completely different bullets in the box. I seperated them all and loaded one then the other. Problem solved at that point. Make sure that your bullets are the same and not mix matched. These were Rainer ballistics, box of 1000 and about 100 wear different in the size of the flat nose. Never ran into that before and didn't pay enough attention, just set it up and started running. Checked about every 20 or so to begin with and began finding differences. I then got to looking and found the problem. It's usually the little things!
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