Can we talk shooting technique?

[KevinWood44]

My ARs are set up to be more precision oriented (mid range scopes opposed to LPVO/Red dot) and I'd say that I am an avg (maybe a lil better than avg) bench shooter and just an average shooter off a tripod and bag (which I find much more enjoyable) so I'd really like to improve

Whether you shoot off a tripod/bag, front bag, bipod, whatever. I am curious what your technique is like....in terms of a few things.

What is your non trigger hand focused on?
I've seen people.....grip the handguard and pinch the bag, hold the top of the scope, put it on top of the stock in front of their face, just hold the handguard, hold the tripod/bipod leg, etc.

And with that hand....what is your focus?
Balance the rifle? Pull the rifle into you? Push the rifle downward?

Your shooting hand....do you
Use a normal pistol grip? Precision-style grip (thumb on same side)? Put any pressure on the grip at all? Inward/downward?

Some of these things seem silly, but I have seen them all done....and even taught.


Just curious what you fine shooters do.

 

[oldrifleman]

First off, fine shooter may be a big stretch. I generally shoot off a Bi-Pod/ rear Bag. My off hand (non-trigger) is used to pinch the bag to control point of aim and pull it into me. What my thumb does is still in transition (not sure which way yet). I try to do Precision style but I find on my ARs i often have better control wrapping my fat hand around the pistol grip which introduces some instability (alters recoil path) but if I need to load it more, I use that hand to pull back. A lot of this is practice and what works personally. We all develop a style for a reason. Be it physical strength/comfort or shooting style or equipment or shooting back ground.

 

[MikeMiller]

Please go take a class from RO or the like. Save yourself time and lots of ammunition

 

[KevinWood44]

First off, fine shooter may be a big stretch. I generally shoot off a Bi-Pod/ rear Bag. My off hand (non-trigger) is used to pinch the bag to control point of aim and pull it into me. What my thumb does is still in transition (not sure which way yet). I try to do Precision style but I find on my ARs i often have better control wrapping my fat hand around the pistol grip which introduces some instability (alters recoil path) but if I need to load it more, I use that hand to pull back. A lot of this is practice and what works personally. We all develop a style for a reason. Be it physical strength/comfort or shooting style or equipment or shooting back ground.

That's funny I can't decide how I want to keep my thumb either. Sure a precision grip is easier and it feels like you have better control shooting groups.....but I like to think (pretend) I am training for the real world and if SHTF I'd want to be able to keep the same grip for all my AR shooting positions. So I think I may force myself to keep a normal grip on all my AR shooting.

 

[oldrifleman]

That's funny I can't decide how I want to keep my thumb either. Sure a precision grip is easier and it feels like you have better control shooting groups.....but I like to think (pretend) I am training for the real world and if SHTF I'd want to be able to keep the same grip for all my AR shooting positions. So I think I may force myself to keep a normal grip on all my AR shooting.

When you do this you have to remember fundamentals. How you hold the pistol grip affects the recoil path which affects your follow through.

 

[Longshot231]

A lot of it comes down to what you are comfortable with. I also have some precision ARs but as long as I have been shooting, I still try to perfect my technique.

One position that I have not been able to adapt to is the "preferred" prone position behind a precision rifle on a bipod. That's the technique in which the shooter is squared up on the rifle. This is the best illustration that I could find. I cannot get into that position without feeling like it's putting a strain on my entire body.

I shot a lot of high-power competition with M-1 Garand and 1903 Springfield rifles. So this is the prone position that I am comfortable with, even when shooting a chassis equipped rifle off of a bipod. So if I'm helping someone new to precision rifles, I have to tell them my problem with muscle memory and to experiment with what works for them.

As for my non-trigger hand, I use it to squeeze the rear bag for elevation adjustments. With the trigger hand, I put the thumb on the same side. It is not wrapped around the grip. I do pull straight back on the grip a little to keep constant pressure of the buttstock on my shoulder.

Within the last few years, I've altered my breathing technique. It use to be recommend practice to take a deep breath, let half of it out then hold it. I stopped doing that and have a slow relaxed breathing rate. I keep breathing. That way my heart doesn't go up.

I also changed my scope rings on the chassis rifles to either high or extra high. The long held theory was to have your scope as close to the barrel as possible. However, that puts too much strain on the neck, trying to get the head in position.

So with the high or extra high rings, the problem with cheek weld is eliminated by raising the cheek piece to get the eye aligned with the scope. With AR-15 rifles, the cantilever scope mount gets the scope up high anyway. My buttstocks on the AR-15s have adjustable cheek pieces.

 

[KevinWood44]

Please go take a class from RO or the like. Save yourself time and lots of ammunition

How DARE I ask people on the internet what they do when training exist in the world.

Asking people what THEY do does not cost me any ammo. Stop being a snob. People can still discuss technique when live classes exist. Sorry but such an asinine reply

 

[KevinWood44]

When you do this you have to remember fundamentals. How you hold the pistol grip affects the recoil path which affects your follow through.

Very valid point. I tend to keep a soft grip in the rifle, but def something I will keep an eye on

 

[Makinchips208]

Firing hand i do a normal grip, so the thumb can grip or work the safety when needed.

But, FLOAT the thumb on my firing hand for the shot process.

and my non trigger finger fingers pull straight back on the grip.

Thats how i do it, not saying it is the only way.

 

[KevinWood44]

A lot of it comes down to what you are comfortable with. I also have some precision ARs but as long as I have been shooting, I still try to perfect my technique.

One position that I have not been able to adapt to is the "preferred" prone position behind a precision rifle on a bipod. That's the technique in which the shooter is squared up on the rifle. This is the best illustration that I could find. I cannot get into that position without feeling like it's putting a strain on my entire body.

I shot a lot of high-power competition with M-1 Garand and 1903 Springfield rifles. So this is the prone position that I am comfortable with, even when shooting a chassis equipped rifle off of a bipod. So if I'm helping someone new to precision rifles, I have to tell them my problem with muscle memory and to experiment with what works for them.

As for my non-trigger hand, I use it to squeeze the rear bag for elevation adjustments. With the trigger hand, I put the thumb on the same side. It is not wrapped around the grip. I do pull straight back on the grip a little to keep constant pressure of the buttstock on my shoulder.

Within the last few years, I've altered my breathing technique. It use to be recommend practice to take a deep breath, let half of it out then hold it. I stopped doing that and have a slow relaxed breathing rate. I keep breathing. That way my heart doesn't go up.

I also changed my scope rings on the chassis rifles to either high or extra high. The long held theory was to have your scope as close to the barrel as possible. However, that puts too much strain on the neck, trying to get the head in position.

So with the high or extra high rings, the problem with cheek weld is eliminated by raising the cheek piece to get the eye aligned with the scope. With AR-15 rifles, the cantilever scope mount gets the scope up high anyway. My buttstocks on the AR-15s have adjustable cheek pieces.

I don't do NEARLY enough prone shooting. I really need to focus a lot more on that. If you think about it its probably THE most important to master too. The floor will always be there for you (assuming u arent on a mountain) but you may not be able to shoot off a car, tree stump, etc. I need to do a lot more of that.

Thankfully it was DRILLED into my head as a new shooter to always try to get the buttstock as close to the center of your chest as possible. So I never used that angle technique in the pic above.

I completely agree about the scope rings!!! Anything lower than 1.5" is just torture on my neck. I have never gone as high as 1.93" but if its more comfy why not?? As long as the ballistics software reflects it doesnt matter at all (assuming u arent trying to use a thermal clip on or something)

Did you ever see that MDT video when they elevated the scope to a RIDICULOUS height just to prove it doesnt matter at all? I saw that and thought "no more sore neck for me" lol

 

[Longshot231]

I don't do NEARLY enough prone shooting. I really need to focus a lot more on that. If you think about it its probably THE most important to master too. The floor will always be there for you (assuming u arent on a mountain) but you may not be able to shoot off a car, tree stump, etc. I need to do a lot more of that.

Thankfully it was DRILLED into my head as a new shooter to always try to get the buttstock as close to the center of your chest as possible. So I never used that angle technique in the pic above.

I completely agree about the scope rings!!! Anything lower than 1.5" is just torture on my neck. I have never gone as high as 1.93" but if its more comfy why not?? As long as the ballistics software reflects it doesnt matter at all (assuming u arent trying to use a thermal clip on or something)

Did you ever see that MDT video when they elevated the scope to a RIDICULOUS height just to prove it doesnt matter at all? I saw that and thought "no more sore neck for me" lol

I did not see the video. Got a link?

 

[KevinWood44]

Firing hand i do a normal grip, so the thumb can grip or work the safety when needed.

But, FLOAT the thumb on my firing hand for the shot process.

and my non trigger finger fingers pull straight back on the grip.

Thats how i do it, not saying it is the only way.

That is certainly how I shoot standing up. Pull the handguard into your chest/shoulder...control the recoil.

 

[KevinWood44]

I did not see the video. Got a link?

Sure

 

[Ronin22]

The absolute best way to be a better shooter is to reduce or eliminate LOFT.

 

[KevinWood44]

The absolute best way to be a better shooter is to reduce or eliminate LOFT.

Agreed.

I put an m-lok thumb rest on the right side of my handguard (which is my off hand side, I shoot left handed bc I am cross eye dom) and I use it to grip the handguard while also pinching down on the bag to stop the rifle from lifting up.

 

[MikeMiller]

How DARE I ask people on the internet what they do when training exist in the world.

Asking people what THEY do does not cost me any ammo. Stop being a snob. People can still discuss technique when live classes exist. Sorry but such an asinine reply

Well you asked a question about a very basic thing in shooting. I have seen too many new shooters develop bad habits trying to learn from the net on there own

I suggested a top notch shooting school Rifles Only that has a long history of making great gas gun shooters

Of course it costs nothing to ask how to shoot, tie your shoes etc but sometimes a little professional marksmanship instruction pays huge dividends

In your case have at it. I

 

[912173]

How DARE I ask people on the internet what they do when training exist in the world.

Asking people what THEY do does not cost me any ammo. Stop being a snob. People can still discuss technique when live classes exist. Sorry but such an asinine reply

Yeah, I'll keep my snob training to my damn self.

 

[Longshot231]

The absolute best way to be a better shooter is to reduce or eliminate LOFT.

Pardon my ignorance but what is LOFT?

 

[Makinchips208]

Whether you shoot off a tripod/bag, front bag, bipod, whatever. I am curious what your technique is like....in terms of a few things.

What is your non trigger hand focused on?
I've seen people.....grip the handguard and pinch the bag, hold the top of the scope, put it on top of the stock in front of their face, just hold the handguard, hold the tripod/bipod leg, etc.

My support hand holds the bag, it is additional stability to fill the negative space under the buttstock. Chris Way demonstrates using no rear bag, and bridge the rifle, i find the absence of a rear bag slightly less stable personally, but i’m not near as good as him. Phillip Velayo also taught to bridge the rifle. It does work.

And with that hand....what is your focus?
Balance the rifle? Pull the rifle into you? Push the rifle downward?

if my support hand is holding the rear bag, i am not touching the buttstock. I might squeeze the rear bag for it to fill the space. You can also sort of create a cradle with the top corners of the rear bag, sort of a channel for the buttstock to sit in. I find that it causes me some horizontal stringing from inconsistent pressure if I'm squeezing the buttstock.

Your shooting hand....do you
Use a normal pistol grip? Precision-style grip (thumb on same side)? Put any pressure on the grip at all? Inward/downward?

I do a normal grip and float the thumb. Pull straight to the rear. NOT down or sideways.

Dont mash your cheek or face hard into rhe rifle. That seems to cause the buttstock to sink or move sideways in recoil.

Let me know if you disagree, and why.

“If i do my part”
“YMMV”
“FWIW”
“Take it or leave it”
lol

 

[sloporsche]

Get an AK47 burn 2 /30 round mags of FMJ at them ,they are dead or left the area OR get a 300 winmag and holler at them what you are going to use ,thats usually enough to make them flee.......unless they have a tank . Serious look for rifle courses [2 or more day] in your area that teach just what you want ,the ones that have a list of needed equipment like 120 + rounds are the more professional imho .

 

[KevinWood44]

Ironic timing....Phillip Velayo just posted 4 tips on IG and one of them was apply rearward pressure with your shooting hand pulling the rifle into your clavicle

I guess that answers that question. Im not about to doubt his word lol

 

[KevinWood44]

My support hand holds the bag, it is additional stability to fill the negative space under the buttstock. Chris Way demonstrates using no rear bag, and bridge the rifle, i find the absence of a rear bag slightly less stable personally, but i’m not near as good as him. Phillip Velayo also taught to bridge the rifle. It does work.


if my support hand is holding the rear bag, i am not touching the buttstock. I might squeeze the rear bag for it to fill the space. You can also sort of create a cradle with the top corners of the rear bag, sort of a channel for the buttstock to sit in. I find that it causes me some horizontal stringing from inconsistent pressure if I'm squeezing the buttstock.


I do a normal grip and float the thumb. Pull straight to the rear. NOT down or sideways.

Dont mash your cheek or face hard into rhe rifle. That seems to cause the buttstock to sink or move sideways in recoil.

Let me know if you disagree, and why.

“If i do my part”
“YMMV”
“FWIW”
“Take it or leave it”
lol

All these techniques seem spot on!

Any chance you have the video or article where Chris Way explains that?

 

[Ronin22]

Pardon my ignorance but what is LOFT?

Lack Of Fucking Talent...

 

[Downtown]

This is a website operated by a excellent instructor who has for years posted a series of well produced instruction videos focusing on precision rifle shooting. Might watch a few of those.

 

[Makinchips208]

All these techniques seem spot on!

Any chance you have the video or article where Chris Way explains that?

don’t remember which video, but both are good.





And as said by others, for $20 a month there is a ton of excellent videos right here in the forum. Do a month or two and see what you think. Its worth it.

 

[sheepdog697]

don’t remember which video, but both are good.





And as said by others, for $20 a month there is a ton of excellent videos right here in the forum. Do a month or two and see what you think. Its worth it.

I just watched these, and have been trying this bridge technique. It's not easy for me to change what I used to do when I would "lay the rifle on the bag" but I do believe with reps it's making me better.

 

[KevinWood44]

Yeah, I'll keep my snob training to my damn self.

U know damn well what I am saying. You left a idiotic reply on a FORUM.....ON WHICH PEOPLE DO NOTHING BUT TALKKKKK telling us NOT to talk or discuss anything just take classes instead. U think that was logical reply?

We all get that classes are a thing, and Id say most of us have taken them, but u act like we shouldn't discuss anything.

don’t remember which video, but both are good.





And as said by others, for $20 a month there is a ton of excellent videos right here in the forum. Do a month or two and see what you think. Its worth it.

Very cool, I have never seen that technique before. Appreciate the links