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Gunsmithing Can you bed a stock like this? Is it worth it?

Jayne

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 1, 2006
7
0
RTP, NC
Picked up a stock rem700 action in a trade and am thinking of trying my hand at bedding it into a stock. I've got one of those plastic hogue stocks off a VTR I could play with that I like the look of. It's really flimsy and the action sits in it crooked so dremeling it out and bedding it would really help out cosmetically as well as functionally I'm guessing.

My questions are:

1. is there enough material in here to actually drill out for pillars?
2. With the action rock solid in the back of the stock but the front still flexy, am I going to get any accuracy out of this thing?
3. Is having to trim out a lot of the sides of the stock to get the action/barrel straight with respect to the barrel channel going to leave me with a really strange recoiling rifle? or lead to feed problems because of how 'high' the action will sit in the stock?


hogue_stock.jpg


 
Re: Can you bed a stock like this? Is it worth it?

I would fill in the voids forward of the recoil lug with epoxy and then put 2-3 layers of fiberglass cloth & resin over that from the lug to the forend ,drill out the action screw holes and bed the pillars and fully bed the action.
 
Re: Can you bed a stock like this? Is it worth it?

MMM VTR Stock.... Im not a pro just a tinkerer and I've thought of this for my SPS Varmint (exact same) and with all the bedding compound and drilling out the pillars I felt it was just worth buying a B&C for like 250 - 300. Aluminum block ( so you don't need the bedding per-say ), the stock dosnt contact the barrel (check yours it might, but this can be fixed with a little sanding), don't have to worry about pillaring the thing and not to hard to bed if you would want to, heres the difference.

100_0857.jpg

p.s. Yes the stock was Long Action, I returned it and got Sort with NP, check Midway for good prices and always get a coupon for like 20 bucks off.
 
Re: Can you bed a stock like this? Is it worth it?

To stiffen up the fore end without adding a ton of weight I use CF arrows that are sliced to length with a dremel tool, scuffed up on the outside with 320grit, then arranged into the stock and potted in place using a medium cure rate epoxy. I've done several like this now, the weight addition is a few ounces and the stock can be used with a bipod and not contact the barrel.

You need to scuff up the inside of the tupperware POS stock with a sanding drum or something from the dremel to get the epoxpy to stick, I forgot to mention that.

I then made myself some AL pillars, milled out the existing mess in the stock and bedded up everything with Devcon Ti putty (I had it on the shelf, just about any Devcon will work)

The initial project that this experimentation was done on was a Rem 7 in 7mm SAUM. It wouldn't shoot off a bench better than about 1.2-1.3" for 3 shots at 100yd.

I took the factory barrel off, set the chamber back about 0.15", ground the factory lug. faced the receiver, fixed the trigger, lapped the lugs, and bedded the scope base. Put it back in the stock and tried it. The groups were in the 0.7-0.8 range for 5 at 100yd but I noticed it had a tendency to throw fliers from a bipod.

I did the stock work to it before dropping a bunch of money on a Manners and was pleasantly rewarded with consistent 0.5" groups for 5 rounds from the bipod.

Now I had a rifle that could be used to hunt with and I would be confident that I can hit a coyote sized animal at 500yd humanely.

Long story short, yes it can be done and it didn't cost me a whole lot out of pocket. The biggest expense was renting the SAAMI reamer and gauges from 4D.

I have access to a full gunsmithing shop and tools though. The stock work is something that just about anyone can do if they have a walmart and a home depot nearby.
 
Re: Can you bed a stock like this? Is it worth it?

Bohem, You don't have any pictures of the re-enforced area do you? I am going to have to do this with my SPS stock to hold me over until I can get the MCS-T. I was stoaked to try out my new bi-pod last weekend, but it was all over the place at 200 yds. Went from shooting around .75 in. to 3 in.
 
Re: Can you bed a stock like this? Is it worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To stiffen up the fore end without adding a ton of weight I use CF arrows that are sliced to length with a dremel tool, scuffed up on the outside with 320grit, then arranged into the stock and potted in place using a medium cure rate epoxy. </div></div>

Finally a use for all those broken arrows I've been saving! Do you just cut them into 1" pieces to fit between the existing ribs or do you actually make them longer and remove some of the rib material?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The stock work is something that just about anyone can do if they have a walmart and a home depot nearby. </div></div>

I lack anything but hand tools and a walmart so the stock work I figure I can handle. If it needs real work I'll have a gunsmith do it. I already want to get the barrel shortened; this is going to be a 200-500 yard rifle so light and easy to carry are way more important than having that extra 50 fps from the longer barrel. I've got other rifles for that.
 
Re: Can you bed a stock like this? Is it worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: N2DADARK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the stock dosnt contact the barrel (check yours it might, but this can be fixed with a little sanding)
</div></div>

Mine does touch the barrel, just needs a little taken off the front to clear it though since it's such a thin barrel.

I had an HS stock but I traded it off because I never felt I could shoot it well. I love the ergos and LOP on my AICS on my primary rifle so if I was to replace this stock I would want something with a really vertical grip like that, so A3-A5 something along those lines. That just seems like overkill for the beater actual hunting rifle. (I've carried the AICS in the field, not exactly fun).
 
Re: Can you bed a stock like this? Is it worth it?

I wish I had taken pictures of the stiffening job but I never did unfortunately.

I cut the ribs out of the front end of the stock and replaced it with long pieces of the CF pultruded rod (arrow shafts). Those lateral ribs provide nothing for bending stiffness, so I removed them with the dremel.

I shoved a little bit of cotton balls down each end of the arrow shaft so that the epoxy didn't run too far down inside (only about 1/2" in each end) this way I effectively got a hollow tube bedded into the epoxy instead of a glob of heavy epoxy that's reinforced with CF material.

I didn't end up keeping the 7 SAUM that I did this to. It made a decent hunting rifle but I needed funds for something else so I offloaded it a few months ago, besides, a 7 SAUM in a 7lb package is not fun to shoot anyway. I've done it for a couple friends who are too cheap to realize what a good stock is really worth.
 
Re: Can you bed a stock like this? Is it worth it?

I've played with this as well (sorry no pics) but the epoxy does not stick well to the molded plastic and so the overall bedding job is not that durable.

Roughing up the surfaces helps but I found I had better luck drill holes through the molded webs and using an epoxy stick for as a base material because it is fairly stiff and you can work it into the holes to cross-link the areas and create a good mechanical bond. The bedding epoxy then bonds to this base very well.

You can get an epoxy stick from the plumbing or adhesive sections at your local walmart of hardware store.

You can also use pillars but it will work better if you use a smaller dia like 1/2" instead of the normal 5/8". You still get the same benefit.

All this work on a flexible molded stock makes you appreciate a good stock that can be bedded correctly. IMO, an old wood stock is better than these molded ones but it is fun to play around and see what you can do for improvements and you can gain some how-to learnings as well.
 
Re: Can you bed a stock like this? Is it worth it?

If it were me:

First, understand a few things. These stocks are injection molded plastic. Chances are there's some sort of release agent residue on the plastic. That has to be sterilized first if you ever want resin to stick to it.

2nd, the slick finish will need a good scuffing to promote adhesion. Also, specific resins may be needed as this stuff is kinda like tupperware and glues don't generally want to bond to it very well.

3rd, once you get past all that the next step is to fill the stock up with a base filler. Then you go through and inlet it again for your particular action. That's when pillars get added and so on.

That's what I'd do. Here are what my Pillar bedding jobs look like:

DSC_0009-4.jpg


DSC_0002-3.jpg
 
Re: Can you bed a stock like this? Is it worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it were me:

First, understand a few things. These stocks are injection molded plastic. Chances are there's some sort of release agent residue on the plastic. That has to be sterilized first if you ever want resin to stick to it.

2nd, the slick finish will need a good scuffing to promote adhesion. Also, specific resins may be needed as this stuff is kinda like tupperware and glues don't generally want to bond to it very well.

3rd, once you get past all that the next step is to fill the stock up with a base filler. Then you go through and inlet it again for your particular action. That's when pillars get added and so on.

That's what I'd do. </div></div>

I agree with Chad on this, as I have done it to a few of these stocks, but the question was asked if it's worth it. In my opinion, it's not unless you do it yourself. If you pay someone to do it, you could have bought a much better stock.
 
Re: Can you bed a stock like this? Is it worth it

Thanks bohem, mdesign, Chad, and Mike for the informative replies. Most folks scoff at questions like this and it's nice to get helpful advice from people like youselves. I'm well aware that trying to improve one of these stocks is a somewhat futile effort, but I ,like most of the people asking, am just trying to make what I have, work as well as possibe for the timebeing.
 
Re: Can you bed a stock like this? Is it worth it

Its a good place to start if you want to learn to do it yourself, Im looking to do the same with mine, should be good practice. Just remember use enough release agent when setting the action.
 
Re: Can you bed a stock like this? Is it worth it

A rifle came from the factory with a wood stock and established an accuracy base line.

The wood stock was replaced with an injection molded stock that opened the groups to double the original size.

I have under cut with a dovetail cutter in an injection molded stock to give the epoxy a grip. I added epoxy until the original accuracy returned. The stock was then much heavier than the wood stock.

On another inaccurate application of an injection molded stock, I milled out an Aluminum bedding that fit the receiver. This seemed like it took a zillion hours.

These days I take off the injection molded stocks and throw them away.

I give up.



 
Re: Can you bed a stock like this? Is it worth it

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A rifle came from the factory with a wood stock and established an accuracy base line.

The wood stock was replaced with an injection molded stock that opened the groups to double the original size.

I have under cut with a dovetail cutter in an injection molded stock to give the epoxy a grip. I added epoxy until the original accuracy returned. The stock was then much heavier than the wood stock.

On another inaccurate application of an injection molded stock, I milled out an Aluminum bedding that fit the receiver. This seemed like it took a zillion hours.

These days I take off the injection molded stocks and throw them away.

I give up.



</div></div>

I'm sure yours are in the landfill right next to mine....
grin.gif
 
Re: Can you bed a stock like this? Is it worth it?

While I'm waiting for my bedding supplies to show up, I spent a little time with the dremel on the stock. Getting the barrel to float wasn't hard, just a little trim off the front rib. With the sanding wheel the plastic turns to a gooey mess if you go to fast, you've really got to go slow and keep the sanding wheel clean.

The next bit is going to be a lot harder. To get the barrel to be centered in the channel without forcing it there I've got to remove about 50% of the stock material on the right side of the action. I'm not sure how I'm going to get the magazine box to line back up with that much of a shift in where the action sits in the stock. I thought maybe I could remove some from the right 'front' and the left 'rear' so it could pivot around the center of the magazine box but then the rear mounting screw is way off. I can put the front pillar more toward the right no problem but there isn't a lot of room to work on the back and I'm thinking how odd it will be to have the whole action visibly crooked with respect to the rear of the stock.

Another way to go without all the cutting would be to just force it to the right with the bedding compound. Extra pressure on the side of the action.... well no just saying that sounds wrong. Everything about bedding talks about zero stress and having one side of the stock warped pressing on the side of the action doesn't sound like zero stress.


I think I'm rapidly learning why the 'throw it in the trash' option is so popular.
 
Re: Can you bed a stock like this? Is it worth it

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boudin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Most folks scoff at questions like this and it's nice to get helpful advice from people like youselves. </div></div>

I've found that the people who hang out in the gunsmithing section tend to support people in doing stuff like this, even if it turns out to be a bad idea. Nothing teaches like screwing it up yourself.
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Re: Can you bed a stock like this? Is it worth it

Jayne,

I've bedded a few of the injection molded stocks like you have and for a short while, it did help. The major problem is the stocks will flex under recoil thus flexing and breaking the bedding away little by little. When milled, drilled or ground these stocks will feather up and have a waxy look in the work area. Be sure to clean the feathering up with a razor or pocket knife prior to bedding. It'll be a good practice stock for you so when the replacement arrives, you'll be better prepared to bed it.

The replacement will arrive one day whether you know it or not
wink.gif
 
Re: Can you bed a stock like this? Is it worth it

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It'll be a good practice stock for you so when the replacement arrives, you'll be better prepared to bed it.

The replacement will arrive one day whether you know it or not
wink.gif
</div></div>

It already has!
smile.gif


I went ahead and put a B&C tactical light in with my order for the bedding compound. I've used an HS before but didn't like the feel of the grip angle nor the size of it, hoping the B&C is a bit more vertical and can simulate the grip angle of my AICS.

I got the larger quantity of bedding material so I can still try the hogue to get a feel for things and then try on something that's not going to fall apart when actually fired a bunch.