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Can you SBR a stripped lower

Prebanpaul

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 2, 2009
2,261
709
Akron Ohio Summit
I am asking if you can just register an SBR as a stripped lower. I was thinking about getting a couple of them done with the short wait times, and them build them as I go. And if the answer is yes you can, does anyone know of a reputable manufacture that would send out a stripped lower SBR.
 
Yes, you can. Just buy whatever stripped lowers you want and send in Form 1's for them. You just have to have them engraved. After the Form 1's are approved build them into whatever you want. I am not aware of any company that would sell you a stripped lower on a Form 4 but they might be out there.

 
Engraving a stripped lower is nothing magical, since it isn't an NFA item yet you can have it done anywhere that can and will do it for you (better if they have a FFL). Once you have the Form 1 and have assembled it into a SBR then your options are limited to people like myself that have SOTs and have the equipment to engrave text into the lower to the ATF requirements.
 
Exactly what I did. Had a local engraving company do the engraving for $60. Once form 1 was approved I built it up.
 
You can Form 1 an 80 Lower you haven't even finished yet. The HK guys form 1 flats before they bend and weld them together.

The Form is essentially permission to build the firearm. The verbiage is on the ATF's website, there is a whole section about "non-license building of a SBR."
 
Whoa, whoa, whoa. There are some stipulations and it's the reason you can't find stripped lowers on Form 4's. Assuming you know the new process for NFA submissions in general:

1. Notice the Bbl. length and OA length questions? Caliber? This assumes a completed firearm. You can change your uppers out, but ATF likes to be notified if you have multiple uppers for multiple lowers and at minimum you are supposed to have the original upper you applied for on the original Form 1 handy somewhere. I suppose if you lose the original upper and can't replace it, then a letter explaining such and the new upper you plan on using would suffice, but I'd talk to them, don't take my word for that.

2. You engrave the lower with "Joe Blow Trust, Anywhere City, Some State", I like to do it on the top of the right side mag well. Letters must be certain height and depth, it's in print somewhere but my laser engraver does 'em all the time to the minimum required unless you want something different and blackens the exposed aluminum after too.

3. If you get another upper, different bbl. length, caliber, etc., then just send a letter saying so and easiest way is enumerating the changes for each upper you plan on using with that lower (box x: 5.56mm, box y: 11.5", box z: 27" --you get the idea) and they like it if you send a copy of that first page of the original Form 1 with it, the one with all the info. Make sure to call ATF to send it to the right people, they make changes there from time to time.

So technically, you can Form 1 an SBR but not a lower, you need to have caliber, barrel length and overall lengths listed. DO NOT use "Multi-caliber" even if that's what it says --they don't like that and will send it back. Put one caliber, one bbl. length, etc., send the addendum letter after you get the stamp back, not before, not with the original submission. And you need to have that original upper/bbl. length handy if you decide to use a different upper. If you change it, they like to be notified in writing but ONLY if you actually have that upper in your possession. They told me they aren't interested in what I PLAN to use, just what I AM using, so if you have even ONE registered SBR, they don't care how many short uppers you have and how many non-registered lowers you have (provided those uppers don't wind up on those lowers prior to registering them). I was afraid of constructive possession but they said that's not a problem if you have a registered weapon that uses those parts already (even if you haven't told them about the extra uppers --that's still considered a courtesy).

Hope that helps, sucks having one returned --only happened to me once and it was because they didn't know if "LMT" was part of the SN or not. But after fixing that, making it more clear, I got the stamp like two weeks later. I put "The" in front of my trust one time and they warned me not to do it anymore but that they let it slide that time, that sometimes they return the submission. Not having the barrel length, caliber and OAL will definitely get it returned. Promise.

They are pretty technical about shit and if you think about it, they register SBR's and other stuff but you never hear of them registering stripped OR complete lowers. It's because they don't. Trust me, tried when we had the fiasco in WA when some asshat started a stink asking if it was legal to manufacture on a Form 1. I was one of the lucky few that actually got two registered Form 1's back complete prior to it happening. It took a year to explain to these fuckers, despite ATF saying we were right, that none of us are "manufacturing" anything, we are assembling rifles from parts no different really than had we taken them apart to clean. During that time, if you wanted to register and build your own SBR a la Form 1, the only way to do it was to buy it as a custom rifle on a Form 4 from, say, Rainier, who of course is gonna take their cut, and you have to wait for them to register it themselves as a production rifle, blah, blah. Never did that but wife did buy one on a Form 4 and it was in part due to that. That was all because you couldn't buy lowers on Form 4's and can only register rifles on Form 1's. Assembly vs. manufacture was a WA specific issue. It's fixed now, but I learned a lot that year.

Good luck registering your SBR, not your lower.

 
Yes, there are stipulations and they are on the ATF website. Now reality from a Manufacturing FFL with SOT (means I can build and sell NFA items and have occasional discussions with the NFA branch). You can engrave any firearm with your trust information at any time and that doesn't make it an SBR. In reality you are registering the serial number of the lower anyway with a few bits of other information. Some people will engrave the barrel, ATF doesn't specify where you engrave. You will need to have a well defined plan for what parts/calibers/dimensions are going into the final configured product because this is what you put on the Form 1. You shouldn't have an SBR yet at the time that you file so you aren't registering a SBR or the ATF would be quite upset. By filling out a Form 1 you are asking the ATF for permission to assemble your lower into a SBR as defined by NFA rules. You can buy Form 4 rifles because the manufacturer already put in their version of Form 1 (a Form 2) and it comes assembled in that configuration. You cannot Form 4 a lower because this has never been allowed to be configured into a SBR and the paperwork has not be submitted describing length, caliber, etc.to obtain permission. ATF is a little picky about what information you put into the Form 1. Keep in mind that if you apply for a SBR with a 14.5" barrel that you can't put an upper on that has a 8" barrel. You can put a 14.5" barreled upper onto a SBR that was approved for a 8" barrel however. Perhaps that sufficiently beats the deceased equine but if you have any questions then you can contact your local ATF field agent and normally they are easy to deal with.

 
Keep in mind that if you apply for a SBR with a 14.5" barrel that you can't put an upper on that has a 8" barrel. You can put a 14.5" barreled upper onto a SBR that was approved for a 8" barrel however.

I have never heard this before. I thought as if you added another upper to your collection, regardless of whether it was shorter or longer than the original you were OK - just so long as it was going on an SBR'd lower and you kept your original configuration handy. I don't have an SBR so I'm not fully vested in this discussion, but have been considering a Form 1. Apparently I need to keep studying before I make the leap.
 
Some of you guys are making up rules that don't exist. There's no reason for speculation here, all of the information and requirements about this stuff are available on the ATF website for anyone interested in reading it.

Keep that in mind before claiming your speculations as fact; people who care to check can easily see which of you are making things up.
 
keep in mind that if you apply for a sbr with a 14.5" barrel that you can't put an upper on that has a 8" barrel. You can put a 14.5" barreled upper onto a sbr that was approved for a 8" barrel however.

false
 
Oops, I confused some laws in my manufacturing world. I was told by an agent that they don't like going shorter than the Form 1. Sorry about that. There is no real magic in building a SBR, just go for it.
 
I don't put it past the ATF saying that, I've had more than one conversation with them. Yes, they do want you to notify them, it's called a courtesy. You can have multiple uppers in possession provided you have at least one registered lower already, you can use them, but they want to be notified about it like I said. They don't want to know about uppers you don't have. Don't include more than one upper on the original Form 1 --it complicates things and I've heard they don't like it and prefer to be notified of additional calibers after you get the approved tax stamp. Send the info in with a copy of the original Form 1 with tax stamp once you get it back.

You cannot register the lower stripped, you MUST fill in the length, caliber and OAL length boxes to name a few. Ideal to engrave the lower, but that's done prior to or soon after receiving the stamp (I forget the timeframe, sooner than later is best). I did the barrel on a 10-22 once, but I won't be changing it either. If you do the upper, you have to do all the uppers you want to use on it. Easier to do the lower.

If you send it off to be engraved, yeah, they have to have a license. If you are present, you can contract out any work up to and including the manufacture of suppressors and stuff, but YOU must be PRESENT while it's being done and have the approved tax stamp. So don't drop off the lowers to an engraver unless he's licensed properly, but if he does it while you are present, no big deal (and to get technical about transfers, you can make him a beneficiary for the time being if you choose, if you have a trust, with the wave of a pen).

OP, if you still have any questions or are confused, call ATF and they can tell you exactly what goes in each box. If you aren't sure and you don't trust what I said, call them. It's better to do it right the first time given the wait, they appreciate it, and it helps expedite everything for everyone. It also gives you peace of mind that you did, in fact, do it right.

Good luck!
 
I am asking if you can just register an SBR as a stripped lower.

No you cannot. You might slip a form by, but in general they will want the entire form 1 filled out with caliber, BBL Length, etc

Now if you mean can you completely fill out the form 1 with this info, but not build right away, yes.
 
I am asking if you can just register an SBR as a stripped lower. I was thinking about getting a couple of them done with the short wait times, and them build them as I go.

Other than the issues some have mentioned about what needs to be included on the Form 1, I would add that it would be a good idea to assemble the lower and test fire it on an upper you know is good to ensure that the lower doesn't have any manufacturing issues before submitting the Form 1 to the ATF.
 
You can contact Parker Mountain Machine...they do really nice engraving.