- Thread starter Mike Ryan
- Start date
To let everyone know, we are using Remington factory loads. And have been using the same ammo since we started shooting the rifle. Saturday is looking good for range time...
I bought a brand new 700 in 22-250 w/heavy fluted barrel about 6 years ago, shot better groups with my model 12. So I had re-crowned, then bought a B&C stock, the had trigger reworked, the had another smith re-crown then figured out lands were and inch from bullet when try to figure out seating depth and the barrel was garbage- getting new barrel and started buying old winchesters. So sad, I bought a 700 in 300 win mag 22 years ago and before barrel seasoned was getting 1/4” groups at 100 yards
Are the factory loads all the same lot number?
Just like 22 ammunition, lot number can make all the difference.
Saturday Update: Unfortunately there will be no resolution to the issue today. My buddy who owns the gun is at a Wounded Warrior Project fishing event this weekend and he didn't drop the rifle off before he left. I'll try to get out one day after work during the week.
While the thread has seemingly run astray from the accuracy problem... To get back to the original issue. The short answer is spread through several posts. The rifle has been removed from stock, scope and bases have been removed and a brake installed.
You start with this by eliminating the variables.
Strip to bare barrel , check bedding reinstall and tighten action screws to spec. Check barrel channel ( the old dollar bill between barrel and stock.) Reinstall bases substitute a known scope. Remove brake.
Shoot . install brake . shoot. Put original scope back on . shoot.
It's not a major ordeal.
You start with this by eliminating the variables.
Strip to bare barrel , check bedding reinstall and tighten action screws to spec. Check barrel channel ( the old dollar bill between barrel and stock.) Reinstall bases substitute a known scope. Remove brake.
Shoot . install brake . shoot. Put original scope back on . shoot.
It's not a major ordeal.
What about the rail?
That definately sounds like a major ordeal to me.
I had this same issue with my 300 Winchester Magnum. I ended up shooting off a soft Bag/Backpack with a rear sandbag and it shrunk my groups way down compared to shooting off a bipod with a rear bag. Just my experience.
Sorry for the delay in following up, but we just shot the rifle for the first time since the original post yesterday. This rifle was a tack driver before my buddy sent it to a gunsmith to thread the barrel and install a brake. After a bunch of rounds down range with nothing hitting a target from 100, then 50 yds, we somehow got one on paper. Cleary, the bullet was tumbling when it hit the paper because the hole it made was about 1.5 inches long and in the shape of the bullet. It has to be the brake. I can't see any obvious signs of the bullet hitting the brake, but can't think of anything else. I need to get a barrel vise and then we're going to remove the brake and try again. Thoughts??
Factory barrel?
I wonder if it had a ton of stress and when cut for the brake it relieved itself and went wonky?
I wonder if it had a ton of stress and when cut for the brake it relieved itself and went wonky?
yes, factory barrel with less than 200 rounds through it.
Gauge pin the muzzle to see if it opened up after cutting it.
Or maybe they cut the threads non concentric to the bore?
Another possibility for sure.
A gauge pin can also reveal that possibly.
When I had supressor troubles, the guy who threaded my barrel did a runout test on both the brake and the suppressor. It was eye opening. The brake had very little runout, but the supressor was pretty bad (we could see it visually). The whole think behaved very similarly to what you are saying--throwing bullets all over the place--but there was no obvious baffle strike. Even a glancing blow is enough to throw things way off target.
I may be calling it the wrong thing, but it was a gauge with a needle--we mounted barrel in a lather and slowly rotated the barrel. any imperfections in the concentrically were measured in the thousandths of an inch. If there is a bad mount--I bet that would show it (assuming the brake has a cylindrical portion.
I may be calling it the wrong thing, but it was a gauge with a needle--we mounted barrel in a lather and slowly rotated the barrel. any imperfections in the concentrically were measured in the thousandths of an inch. If there is a bad mount--I bet that would show it (assuming the brake has a cylindrical portion.
R
I would think it would just about have to be either the muzzle threads or the break threads being off, given the other info the op provided. Assuming he doesn't have some scope or mount issue, it would have to be threads on one or the other .
Yeah that's an indicator.
I would think it would just about have to be either the muzzle threads or the break threads being off, given the other info the op provided. Assuming he doesn't have some scope or mount issue, it would have to be threads on one or the other .
It's the brake, I had a similar situation on a Tikka t3 lite. I ended up sending my scope in(wasn't the problem). Than I had my stock opened up, because it was no longer free floating. Ended up putting a new stock on. Still didn't fix the problem. Had my muzzle brake opened up(still didn't fix the problem. Finally I had it recrowned and put a different muzzle brake on, new stock bedded in new bottom metal. It's shooting great finally. It really changed the harmonics of the barrel. Those sporter barrels sometimes are finicky things.
Brake. Has to be. Remove brake, shoot, install brake, shoot. Bet it's rubbing somewhere.
The quickest way to do it, with brake on. Take the bolt out, look down the barrel from the chamber end. You should NOT see the brake at the end. Move the barrel around slightly in a circular motion from the chamber end, keeping the muzzle as still as you can. Keep looking down.
Bet you can see the issue "come in and out" as you move the barrel in a circular motion.
The quickest way to do it, with brake on. Take the bolt out, look down the barrel from the chamber end. You should NOT see the brake at the end. Move the barrel around slightly in a circular motion from the chamber end, keeping the muzzle as still as you can. Keep looking down.
Bet you can see the issue "come in and out" as you move the barrel in a circular motion.
Silver sharpie on my black rifles, or some other high-contrast color. Orange, bright blue paint pens too.
900⁰ silver solder paste and MAP torch while optic is mounted.
The more I've read, the more I believe it will be the threads on the barrel. The brake is an APA Fat Bastard 3, brand new, not likely that we got a bad one. The barrel was threaded by a local gunsmith. I don't know him at all, he was recommended to my friend by someone else. I will remove the brake and shoot it this weekend and I expect it to be good. If the barrel threading was bad, what are the options? Cut and rethread (with a competent smith)? New barrel? That would really suck. He'd have to go back to the original gunsmith and try to get him to make it right. Thanks for all the input!
While that is likely the case--don't assume--check everything. Obviously its easy to pull the brake off and see if shooting performance returns to normal--but if it doesn't check the brake. The reason I'm a little cautions is everyone told me it was my threads, and it turned out the threads were fine--lemons do happen. I was lucky that the machinist helped me out measuring and finding the problem and I had a good company that RMA's the can.
okay, thanks everyone for hanging with me through this. It has taken a while, but.... it is the brake.
Removed the brake, installed a new viper pst gen 2 5-25 and got this at 100 yds. First shot was my finger. Couldn't get a good cheek weld and without a brake it packs a bit of a punch, so I was a bit all over.
Adjusted the scope, installed a precision armament M11A2 that I had lying around without crush washer or anything, and shot this while adjusting the scope.
Final 3+1 shot group (mosquito got me just as I pulled the trigger on the high one)
Ended up using a spare rear bag to get a decent cheek weld and it worked ok. Next step is to contact APA and ask them what they can do about the brake.
Thanks again,
Mike.
Removed the brake, installed a new viper pst gen 2 5-25 and got this at 100 yds. First shot was my finger. Couldn't get a good cheek weld and without a brake it packs a bit of a punch, so I was a bit all over.
Adjusted the scope, installed a precision armament M11A2 that I had lying around without crush washer or anything, and shot this while adjusting the scope.
Final 3+1 shot group (mosquito got me just as I pulled the trigger on the high one)
Ended up using a spare rear bag to get a decent cheek weld and it worked ok. Next step is to contact APA and ask them what they can do about the brake.
Thanks again,
Mike.
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