I bet 90 percent of the members piling on can't afford a rig that costs half as much as the OP's rifle . Remington 700s come like that at times , but at that price point you expect it .
- Thread starter Smat
- Start date
Im still waiting to see any proof that AI in all actuality replaced anything.
OP’s credibility is already shot by posting doctored photos.
I know we all love a good underdog story, but that doesn’t typically start with questionable photos.
OP rightfully earned the dog pile he got, based on what we’ve seen so far.
OP’s credibility is already shot by posting doctored photos.
I know we all love a good underdog story, but that doesn’t typically start with questionable photos.
OP rightfully earned the dog pile he got, based on what we’ve seen so far.
I’d be pretty upset if I spent my entire wad on that rifle, and had only $7 left over for a level too.
To those that took the time to answer my actual question from the start and offer support later on, thank you.
Some of you seem to be so pathologically tied to the idea that a product cannot be out of spec (regardless of whether it was or not) it’s bizarre and you should probably look into why that is. You act like a rotated photo, which I openly noted as such from the start, mentioned the reason why and provided the original, is some sort of smoking gun which you’ve expertly Columbo’d out.
Furthermore, a level may not show a true level….but provided it is orientated the same way and is the only level used can still be a useful comparison tool to show that two surfaces aren’t level with each other, even if neither are truly level.
I don’t need to provide you any proof, I don’t owe you anything…..you’ve provided zero help to me and by the looks of it couldn’t or wouldn’t regardless of any kind of proof, if indeed there was any I could provide that would allow your fragile ego to admit that even the best of companies sometimes make something that isn’t perfect.
and so to those (as suggested) fuck you.
Some of you seem to be so pathologically tied to the idea that a product cannot be out of spec (regardless of whether it was or not) it’s bizarre and you should probably look into why that is. You act like a rotated photo, which I openly noted as such from the start, mentioned the reason why and provided the original, is some sort of smoking gun which you’ve expertly Columbo’d out.
Furthermore, a level may not show a true level….but provided it is orientated the same way and is the only level used can still be a useful comparison tool to show that two surfaces aren’t level with each other, even if neither are truly level.
I don’t need to provide you any proof, I don’t owe you anything…..you’ve provided zero help to me and by the looks of it couldn’t or wouldn’t regardless of any kind of proof, if indeed there was any I could provide that would allow your fragile ego to admit that even the best of companies sometimes make something that isn’t perfect.
and so to those (as suggested) fuck you.
If I was paying that much for a rifle system I wouldn't want visible out of square on the rail. If I was trying to fabricate an image I wouldn't, nor do I think any standard phone app could "doctor" a photo well enough to pass off. Seems like a heap of idiots gagging to tell someone else they are wrong.
After going back and looking carefully at Smat’s iPhone grid picture more carefully (yes I did see according to the grid picture, the pic rail was not square the first time I looked). I think this rifle has a significant problem…
Look at his grid picture (see attached) that I’ve marked with planes A, B and C. Smat lined up parallel the grid line “A” to the bottom base line of the receiver, see how the grid line is parallel to the receiver? Grid line “B” clearly shows the pic rail is absolutely nonparallel.
What the real concern is grid line “C” that shows the top of the action appears to be milled out of square. When you take the out of square pic rail and the the top of the action out of square too, that results is some very significant stacking errors.
I would take the rifle to a competent machinist and have him measure how out of spec the top of the action “C” is to line “A” and generate a report send it to AI and tell them you want them to fix and refinish the action or replace it, if the evidence confirms the picture. If AI gives you crap then go see an attorney.
Of course, I am basing what I am seeing from an iPhone grid picture, it does look convincing though that the top of the action was milled out of square and if confirmed to be true then the new pic rail does not fix the problem.
Look at his grid picture (see attached) that I’ve marked with planes A, B and C. Smat lined up parallel the grid line “A” to the bottom base line of the receiver, see how the grid line is parallel to the receiver? Grid line “B” clearly shows the pic rail is absolutely nonparallel.
What the real concern is grid line “C” that shows the top of the action appears to be milled out of square. When you take the out of square pic rail and the the top of the action out of square too, that results is some very significant stacking errors.
I would take the rifle to a competent machinist and have him measure how out of spec the top of the action “C” is to line “A” and generate a report send it to AI and tell them you want them to fix and refinish the action or replace it, if the evidence confirms the picture. If AI gives you crap then go see an attorney.
Of course, I am basing what I am seeing from an iPhone grid picture, it does look convincing though that the top of the action was milled out of square and if confirmed to be true then the new pic rail does not fix the problem.
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Well said ! You got fucked on the rifle , you deserve to be pissed .
He should've just slapped a tuner on that rifle and tuned the cant out...
too bad it can’t tune the voices out of your head that suggest anything you post is something others would actually want to read?
can’t imagine being so ass-hurt from a forum discussion that over a YEAR later you’re still bitching about it, princess.
As I mentioned in the A.I. picture thread, I recently purchased an AXMC in 6.5CM.
After getting home and starting to put it together, when levelling the rifle, I noticed that the action/scope rail was canted side to side….to the point of being visible to the eye.
Ended up sending it back, it was away for 5 weeks and had a new rail installed.
Got it back the other day and while it’s not as severe as it was, it’s still canted.
I tend to get really hung up on small details like this, that ultimately don’t really matter. And I also had a less that satisfactory experience with A.I. customer service.
Is this even a problem/something you would worry about?
By my calculations, the rail is out by approx 0.3 - 0.4 degrees, with the mating surfaces of the rail-to-action 0.07mm out of square.
Sometimes I just need people to tell me to stop being an idiot
FWIW:
There are several things here that lead to where you are now. In a machinist world, it is called "tolerance stacking."
Questions that immediately come to mind:
- Receiver guard screw holes squareness to bolt lug raceways
- Scope base holes squareness to bolt lug raceways
- Scope base radius feature(s) parallelism to the top of the ring mount geometry
- Scope base screw holes squareness to the bottom of the base
- Scope base screw head counterbore squareness to the bottom of the base
- Level "widget" vial hole machined square to paw features that capture the scope base
- Base/Level "widget" machined to STENAG/Picatinny published tolerances
-As an example, I own one of these levels that I use to set up new machines and various jobs we do. It has a resolution of .0005" per foot. Note the price.
Chad, did you read his post only or did you look at his iPhone grid pattern picture as well (See my post #58 with the marked up pic)?
There are Savage/Remington actions (that cost much less) that it is reasonable to believe that are more square and parallel than this Leaning Tower of Pisa AI action. Even if the replaced pic rail has reduced the stacking errors, the top of the action is still not close to being correct.
How much does one have to spend to expect visual errors in machining like this to be absent?
I don’t believe you would let something like this leave your shop if you were aware of it.
If you are using a bubble level to check the tolerances of your parts, then you might be retarded.
At the price point of an AI rifle, I would have expected them to measure it with both CMM and micrometers to check the tolerances of the action.
Why do you suppose the bottom left hand corner, is biased the opposite way of the upper right hand corner? You can clearly see that the grid does not line up where the bolt inserts into the action.
Here are some pictures for example where I have rotated the photo.
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I can assure you the barrel and bore are not oval shaped biased to the right at the top.
I did say in my last sentence of my post you quoted, “Of course, I am basing what I am seeing from an iPhone grid picture, it does look convincing though that the top of the action was milled out of square and if confirmed to be true then the new pic rail does not fix the problem.”
Why is the bottom left hand corner biased the other way from the upper right hand corner? I don’t know. We don’t see a complete picture of the rifle and the OP has gone silent. You’re implying the picture was photoshopped and maybe it was. If the bottom left hand corner is indeed biased the other way, the OP should get a new rifle.
How can you be assured? Do you own one or more AI rifles and AI is infallible and can never put something out that is defective?
What is for sure is OP has gone silent, there were some posters in this thread that mocked him harshly and finally the OP had enough.
The brand loyalty thing that with many people is cultish, I don’t ascribe to and is immature, such as iPhone vs Android or GM vs. Ford vs. RAM or AI is superior to everything else or Cadex is superior to all else etc. If someone enjoys their brand of whatever and has excellent results with it great, but when people go dogmatic that there brand is always superior, never puts out a lemon is someone that is immature and doesn’t understand manufacturing.
The OP posted a screen shot of the photos where you can see they are altered.
I was talking about my photos of the barrel. One normal and one with center line tweaked.
If you look at the line up the center of the stock, you can see it is slanted the same direction as the rail also.
If the photo of the rifle and the grid were lined up straight, the grid would be the same on both sides of alleyway for the bolt.
I still think the OP was trolling. If he was on up and up and its that far out, that seems pretty shiity.
I was talking about my photos of the barrel. One normal and one with center line tweaked.
If you look at the line up the center of the stock, you can see it is slanted the same direction as the rail also.
If the photo of the rifle and the grid were lined up straight, the grid would be the same on both sides of alleyway for the bolt.
I still think the OP was trolling. If he was on up and up and its that far out, that seems pretty shiity.
I wasn’t and I‘m still not, just doesn’t seem a lot of point in arguing a situation that no longer exists.
Theres always a chance I’m mistaken, or my lack of experience means I make an error of judgement/measurement……but I’m too old and too busy to waste my time in intentionally starting internet drama for fun, or listen to random people call me a liar so they can religiously protect a lump of metal and plastic that they’ve chosen to base their identity on.
There is relatively simple means of checking if there’s any distortion in the rotated image……look at the original I posted and tilt your head or phone.
Once again, thanks to those that helped. I consider the issue resolved/sorted.
Theres always a chance I’m mistaken, or my lack of experience means I make an error of judgement/measurement……but I’m too old and too busy to waste my time in intentionally starting internet drama for fun, or listen to random people call me a liar so they can religiously protect a lump of metal and plastic that they’ve chosen to base their identity on.
There is relatively simple means of checking if there’s any distortion in the rotated image……look at the original I posted and tilt your head or phone.
Once again, thanks to those that helped. I consider the issue resolved/sorted.
Particularly with people whose only real info is what their paranoid brain tells them. They used to be occupied by the grassy knoll but that's passe' now. LOL
Ive seen that episode of king of the hill. Dale confirmed what really happened. Now we need something else fun to occupy our lizard brain with.
By default, when things get posted that are questioning "build quality" of a product, the natural reaction seems to be the question the poster, rather than believe them. Its not odd to default to assuming that the product maker put out something of quality, and the person using it is confused/inexperienced.
However...posting altered photos makes it hard to be on OP's side, for whatever reason he thought that was a good idea..it immediately questions his motives. That added to the fact that he joined only to make this post? There are similar forums, with similar discussions about AI as well.
This type of reaction happens anytime someone posts a bore scope thread too..lots of "mine looks like shit inside but shoots lights out, throw out your borescope". I posted one of those myself when a rifle started having issues. Got the same responses. Then Tikka deemed my rifle unrepairable/unsafe and destroyed it.
However..AI telling him not to contact them again, along with multiple altered photos shared..nobody has to yell conspiracy for all of the coincidences to sound suspicious to the average person.
"Altered" is a fairly uncharitable contextualization of the OP's pictures.
Unless I misunderstand something, the only thing "altered" is the picture was rotated with a grid applied, so that the viewer can see how the angles of each part in relation to each other. Perhaps you can make the argument that the picture isn't perfectly square, so the perspective is off. But 99% of people I know wouldn't be able to take a better picture.
I'll be generous and give the OP the benefit of the doubt. He doesn't seem to be trying to stir shit up, he's asking a question (a fair one given the pics) if that cant is acceptable between parts. If this is trolling, this is a pretty bad troll.
Unless I misunderstand something, the only thing "altered" is the picture was rotated with a grid applied, so that the viewer can see how the angles of each part in relation to each other. Perhaps you can make the argument that the picture isn't perfectly square, so the perspective is off. But 99% of people I know wouldn't be able to take a better picture.
I'll be generous and give the OP the benefit of the doubt. He doesn't seem to be trying to stir shit up, he's asking a question (a fair one given the pics) if that cant is acceptable between parts. If this is trolling, this is a pretty bad troll.
A standard phone could be used to make a video of you sodomizing a goat and odds are most people who personally know you still wouldn’t be able to spot the difference.
If you don’t know how capable technology is, seems like the wrong person is labeled an idiot in that sentence.
Yeah and about 99.99% of the worlds population has no clue how to do something like that...
And the vast majority of people are mediocre at best at using their camera phones. Let alone extracting all the technology out of it.
If that doesn’t look like an obviously
altered photo to you, then you should probably get your eyes checked.
There’s teenagers making these videos regularly. if you struggle to print a pdf, the rest of population isn’t equally as stupid just because it’s a challenge for you, grandpa.
I also build custom photo booths, so yeah, you could say that being able to spot an altered/doctored/edited photo is something I’d be able to do fairly easily, since I have at least 5 different multi-thousand dollar photo processing software suites I’m versed in, by trade.
The fact that AI specifically asked him to not contact them again is pretty telling in and of itself, but hey, you know better than everyone else, right?
Looks like a bad photoshop job trying to cut out the background.
The argument that this is same elaborate deep fake to troll SH and AI is a pretty stupid one. Because if this was supposed to be an elaborate hoax using cutting edge technology, it's a huge flop...
Anyways, this thread's taken up enough bandwidth.
Some people get really riled up and hyper defensive of AI. I guess someone forgot to tell the OP that the maxim "AI cannot fail you, you can only fail AI" very much applies here on SH.
Some people get really riled up and hyper defensive of AI. I guess someone forgot to tell the OP that the maxim "AI cannot fail you, you can only fail AI" very much applies here on SH.
Nobody argued that this was an 'elaborate hoax', it clearly doesnt take much effort to fool people, like yourself, of such "gifted" intellectual ability.
if you're too stupid to understand the purpose of an analogy, I can see why this is so difficult for you to grasp now. Im sorry, truly. It must be really hard living life like that. Driving across deceiving statements everywhere "best prices around" "largest inventory", its gotta be frightening to be so easily caught up in mental mousetraps.
Almost as exhausting as seeing conspiracies everywhere, I’d wager.
Conspiracies everywhere..?
I would wager at best you’ve got a classic case of “buyers remorse”. The thousands you spent on this rifle doesn’t live up to some cosmetic or other imaginary standards you had built up in your head, and now you’ve got your panties in a bunch.
I see this all the time from guys who buy track cars with carbon ceramic brake packages on expensive cars and then bitch and moan about the brakes being “noisy”.
Actually, that assessment is probably not far off. Save the panties in a twist remark. There’s a good chance that I wanted one so much that the reality was never going to live up to my initial expectations……which was why, after it came back, I came here to ask people with experience.
But, of course, for that to be true…..there’d have to be something that wasn’t perfect about it.
The irony of repeatedly suggesting I’m a troll is that this thread would have rightly died after the first few posts confirmed that the perceived small amount of cant was nothing to worry about and I was being too picky/OCD. Instead, you repeatedly think I’m sitting at home thinking up ways I can annoy people halfway across the world, who happen to have bought the same product as me.
But, of course, for that to be true…..there’d have to be something that wasn’t perfect about it.
The irony of repeatedly suggesting I’m a troll is that this thread would have rightly died after the first few posts confirmed that the perceived small amount of cant was nothing to worry about and I was being too picky/OCD. Instead, you repeatedly think I’m sitting at home thinking up ways I can annoy people halfway across the world, who happen to have bought the same product as me.
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The only one with their panties in a bunch is you. The guy asked one question is this too much cant on his repaired rifle. That's it. Then you started blathering on and on about faked pictures and anyone that can't see the shop job is an idiot. Why are you wasting your valuable time on this thread when you could be masturbating over your AI?
I’m just a dumb old country boy, but this seems a bit too much of poor, poor pitiful me. Yep its an expensive rifle and yes its nice that it be right, but the world is not perfect (cause if it was, I would be the oldest multiple repeat winner of the Tour de France, the only winner of the AG Cup, and a repeat winner of the powerball lottery). (And every rifle I ever owned would put ten shots in a single caliber hole at any distance I cared to shoot)
I can't fathom how there are numerous members piling onto barrel makers in other threads, and that sweet as, visibly wrong components from a "teir 1" OEM which should have both the equipment good enough not to generate those faults in the first place and QC processes to stop it being sent out if it is getting a free pass and a customer getting slandered by tin foil hatters? Bizarre.
OP spent so much of his time bitching, he's never actually shot the rifle.
Who cares about actual performance when you're crying yourself to sleep over cerakoting.
I wonder what setting erik cortana's barrel tuner is set on, the one thats a little too far up your ass, that has you following someone you dont know, around an internet forum, years later, just to post passive-aggressive comments?
What an odd way to obsess over someone who embarrassed you over a year ago.
Considering that half of your daily posts now are in "anti-AI" threads...sounds like you're butthurt over (another) product. Cant imagine living so passive-aggressively. Sell the rifle if it makes you that unhappy, princess.
The intense and persistent drive to be right at all cost precludes any learning or real communication. Sad to see but quite common
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