Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Time for Mike & ABS to step up to the plate and take care of you Jered - we'll see???
Time for Mike & ABS to step up to the plate and take care of you Jered - we'll see???
- Thread starter deergrizzly
- Start date
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Yeah man up and pay Jered back for his stuff!
Yeah man up and pay Jered back for his stuff!
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mammal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For my ABS centerfires I can shoot more rapidly without worrying about burning out the barrel even during the hot Houston summer.</div></div>
CanPopper, I'm interested in this subject, so please don't take this as a slam...but do you really think any barrel cares if it's 70 degrees F or 95? I'm playing devil's advocate only for betterment of analytical...uh, analysis. Food for thought. </div></div>
Well, the answer is yes. And this takes place on two levels.
1. I found from shooting in hot weather that at 95 degrees, it takes a really long time for a steel barrel to cool. After three or four shots, the barrel itself is way above 95 degrees; we aren't talking about it being room temperature here after experiencing several large pills down the tube.
2. Again, steel is not that great a conductor of heat. So the temperature one feels on the surface is actually lower than the temperature at the rifling. Think temperature gradient here. With the rifling so hot, they become softer and more susceptible to damage and deformation when another bullet goes down the tube.
Carbon fiber from ABS is a really good heat conductor. So the temperature you feel on the surface is close to the temperature at the rifling. This means the rifling stays harder longer. Thus, ABS claims their CF wrapped barrel has 50% longer life than regular stainless steel ones.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mammal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For my ABS centerfires I can shoot more rapidly without worrying about burning out the barrel even during the hot Houston summer.</div></div>
CanPopper, I'm interested in this subject, so please don't take this as a slam...but do you really think any barrel cares if it's 70 degrees F or 95? I'm playing devil's advocate only for betterment of analytical...uh, analysis. Food for thought. </div></div>
Well, the answer is yes. And this takes place on two levels.
1. I found from shooting in hot weather that at 95 degrees, it takes a really long time for a steel barrel to cool. After three or four shots, the barrel itself is way above 95 degrees; we aren't talking about it being room temperature here after experiencing several large pills down the tube.
2. Again, steel is not that great a conductor of heat. So the temperature one feels on the surface is actually lower than the temperature at the rifling. Think temperature gradient here. With the rifling so hot, they become softer and more susceptible to damage and deformation when another bullet goes down the tube.
Carbon fiber from ABS is a really good heat conductor. So the temperature you feel on the surface is close to the temperature at the rifling. This means the rifling stays harder longer. Thus, ABS claims their CF wrapped barrel has 50% longer life than regular stainless steel ones.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJoplin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmm. Figures. No response as usual.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Buckey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Time for Mike & ABS to step up to the plate and take care of you Jered - we'll see??? </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nolo263</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah man up and pay Jered back for his stuff! </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: [email protected]</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"am going to overnight $330 to put this to sleep."</div></div>
I personally hope that Mike overnighting Jared this money will put this issue to rest.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJoplin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmm. Figures. No response as usual.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Buckey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Time for Mike & ABS to step up to the plate and take care of you Jered - we'll see??? </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nolo263</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah man up and pay Jered back for his stuff! </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: [email protected]</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"am going to overnight $330 to put this to sleep."</div></div>
I personally hope that Mike overnighting Jared this money will put this issue to rest.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Not sure what happened to Mike's post but I see where you quoted it. I hope it's put to rest as well.
Not sure what happened to Mike's post but I see where you quoted it. I hope it's put to rest as well.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
But the problem sounds like Mike/ABS is too difficult to contact and I note a pattern of un-responsiveness. I have tried contacting him for the past month to no avail. He's lost my business.
In contrast I've worked with Jered Joplin/APA on one project and found his business model the opposite of Mike/ABS. Very responsive and a great communicator.
-Jason
But the problem sounds like Mike/ABS is too difficult to contact and I note a pattern of un-responsiveness. I have tried contacting him for the past month to no avail. He's lost my business.
In contrast I've worked with Jered Joplin/APA on one project and found his business model the opposite of Mike/ABS. Very responsive and a great communicator.
-Jason
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Just to let you know, ABS is in the midst of a company transition. Hopefully more details will be available soon.
Just to let you know, ABS is in the midst of a company transition. Hopefully more details will be available soon.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Don't hold your breath.
Don't hold your breath.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Yeah I'm still waiting on that check to get here.................Must have gotten lost in the mail or something
Yeah I'm still waiting on that check to get here.................Must have gotten lost in the mail or something
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
ABS is not looking good here - flat out said he'd take care of you Jered & still no help!!
ABS is not looking good here - flat out said he'd take care of you Jered & still no help!!
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
so Why do people think abs barrels are so good?
If I sent a barrel to Abs or christensen What is the difference
in process that makes one more accurate than the other.
I Don't know the process.
Thanks jason
so Why do people think abs barrels are so good?
If I sent a barrel to Abs or christensen What is the difference
in process that makes one more accurate than the other.
I Don't know the process.
Thanks jason
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Man I tore that mailbox to pieces today looking for that check!
Mike I didn't bring the spotlight but now that it's here I really wish you would shoot me a PM, call me, or simply address this issue in the open but please tell me why you let this happen.
Man I tore that mailbox to pieces today looking for that check!
Mike I didn't bring the spotlight but now that it's here I really wish you would shoot me a PM, call me, or simply address this issue in the open but please tell me why you let this happen.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Promises promises!!!
Promises promises!!!
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Jared,
I called and left a message. Please return my call.
Thanks!
Jared,
I called and left a message. Please return my call.
Thanks!
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
We aren't there on Fridays but I'll check the messages and give you a shout.
We aren't there on Fridays but I'll check the messages and give you a shout.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Well it would appear that we are on the road to resolution.
Well it would appear that we are on the road to resolution.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Jared, it was great talking to you and hearing the nitty, gritty details of your side of the story. My heart goes out to you, my Friend! I also appreciate you allowing me to bend your ear as well. If anything new comes up that you'd like to share with me, it would be an honor for me to listen to you.
Good shooting and keep in touch!
Jared, it was great talking to you and hearing the nitty, gritty details of your side of the story. My heart goes out to you, my Friend! I also appreciate you allowing me to bend your ear as well. If anything new comes up that you'd like to share with me, it would be an honor for me to listen to you.
Good shooting and keep in touch!
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Everyone involved, pleas keep the thread updated. I would love to own an accurate carbon wrapped barrel but seems to be no good options at this time. To the person asking about the difference between the Christensen and ABS barrels- with the ABS you are pretty likely to get a good shooting barrel if you get it. With Christensen you have a 50/50 chance of getting a barrel that will hold MOA.
Everyone involved, pleas keep the thread updated. I would love to own an accurate carbon wrapped barrel but seems to be no good options at this time. To the person asking about the difference between the Christensen and ABS barrels- with the ABS you are pretty likely to get a good shooting barrel if you get it. With Christensen you have a 50/50 chance of getting a barrel that will hold MOA.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
shortdraw,
If I sent a barrel to Abs or christensen What is the difference
in process that makes one more accurate than the other.
shortdraw,
If I sent a barrel to Abs or christensen What is the difference
in process that makes one more accurate than the other.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deergrizzly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I sent a barrel to Abs or christensen What is the difference in process that makes one more accurate than the other.</div></div>
I've owned at least a dozen ABS barrels over the years. Here's my take for what it's worth.
Christensen Arms Carbon Fiber wrapped barrels are wrapped more like a paper towel. <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">One sheet on top of the other in nice flat layers.</span></span></span> The barrels are very light and have a very handsome (cool looking) carbon fiber appearance.
BUT, the flat layer type wrapping ends up INSULATING the barrel so heat has a harder time dissipating than a regular steel barrel.
ABS barrels are also very light weight barrels. The ABS barrels are wrapped with carbon fiber, but in a weird looking matrix (angle) wrap pattern. This funky angle wrapping does the exact OPPOSITE of the Christensen carbon fiber layer pattern. <span style="color: #3366FF"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">The ABS angled wrapped actually dissipates heat 3.7 times <span style="text-decoration: underline">faster</span> than a regular steel barrel can.</span></span></span>
So both barrels are lightweight. The advantage of an ABS barrels is the EXTREMELY rapid speed that the barrel cools. And to me that is a very good thing.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deergrizzly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I sent a barrel to Abs or christensen What is the difference in process that makes one more accurate than the other.</div></div>
I've owned at least a dozen ABS barrels over the years. Here's my take for what it's worth.
Christensen Arms Carbon Fiber wrapped barrels are wrapped more like a paper towel. <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">One sheet on top of the other in nice flat layers.</span></span></span> The barrels are very light and have a very handsome (cool looking) carbon fiber appearance.
BUT, the flat layer type wrapping ends up INSULATING the barrel so heat has a harder time dissipating than a regular steel barrel.
ABS barrels are also very light weight barrels. The ABS barrels are wrapped with carbon fiber, but in a weird looking matrix (angle) wrap pattern. This funky angle wrapping does the exact OPPOSITE of the Christensen carbon fiber layer pattern. <span style="color: #3366FF"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">The ABS angled wrapped actually dissipates heat 3.7 times <span style="text-decoration: underline">faster</span> than a regular steel barrel can.</span></span></span>
So both barrels are lightweight. The advantage of an ABS barrels is the EXTREMELY rapid speed that the barrel cools. And to me that is a very good thing.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Are you sure that second one is carbon wrapped?
From the picture it looks like delrin which has been buffed randomly in different directions to give the impression of carbon fiber.
Like this, just a delrin tube made to look like carbon fiber:
Are you sure that second one is carbon wrapped?
From the picture it looks like delrin which has been buffed randomly in different directions to give the impression of carbon fiber.
Like this, just a delrin tube made to look like carbon fiber:
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you sure that second one is carbon wrapped?</div></div>
<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">I am extremely sure that the second barrel is carbon fiber wrapped!</span></span> No BS about it. That is what all my ABS barrels look like. And I'm getting to the point where I'm not sure what my exact ABS barrel count is up to. But ABS barrels are what I predominantly use on my rifles!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you sure that second one is carbon wrapped?</div></div>
<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">I am extremely sure that the second barrel is carbon fiber wrapped!</span></span> No BS about it. That is what all my ABS barrels look like. And I'm getting to the point where I'm not sure what my exact ABS barrel count is up to. But ABS barrels are what I predominantly use on my rifles!
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Well I ordered my ABS Barrels here in UK in October, paid for them in December and have heard not a thing from ABS. I have left 3 messages, sent two emails and have a Trade Show in 7 days that I have paid $3,000 to exhibit ABS barrels at...
Not holding my breath, I guess it's money down the bog.
Well I ordered my ABS Barrels here in UK in October, paid for them in December and have heard not a thing from ABS. I have left 3 messages, sent two emails and have a Trade Show in 7 days that I have paid $3,000 to exhibit ABS barrels at...
Not holding my breath, I guess it's money down the bog.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you sure that second one is carbon wrapped?</div></div>
<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">I am extremely sure that the second barrel is carbon fiber wrapped!</span></span> No BS about it. That is what all my ABS barrels look like. And I'm getting to the point where I'm not sure what my exact ABS barrel count is up to. But ABS barrels are what I predominantly use on my rifles! </div></div>
Let me know when you shoot one out. I want to cut it in half and see...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you sure that second one is carbon wrapped?</div></div>
<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">I am extremely sure that the second barrel is carbon fiber wrapped!</span></span> No BS about it. That is what all my ABS barrels look like. And I'm getting to the point where I'm not sure what my exact ABS barrel count is up to. But ABS barrels are what I predominantly use on my rifles! </div></div>
Let me know when you shoot one out. I want to cut it in half and see...
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
I just wanted to say that I don't believe ABS is out there to try and screw anybody or give poor service. They are, as previously stated, undergoing some company changes and a big move. On top of that, they are a small business with few people who can actually do the wrapping. Few employees + lots of orders = slow delivery. Look at how many people on this forumn alone have ABS barrels and believe it or not it isnt a 15 minute ordeal to wrap them. They are quite busy, trust me. Also, remember when you are complaining about Mike not responding quickly that you are talking to the head hauncho. He is extremely busy and appears to be trying. Please consider these things before you rant about poor service. My experiences with ABS have been nothing but good. The barrels are more accurate, lighter, and disappate heat like you wouldnt believe. Fire away
I just wanted to say that I don't believe ABS is out there to try and screw anybody or give poor service. They are, as previously stated, undergoing some company changes and a big move. On top of that, they are a small business with few people who can actually do the wrapping. Few employees + lots of orders = slow delivery. Look at how many people on this forumn alone have ABS barrels and believe it or not it isnt a 15 minute ordeal to wrap them. They are quite busy, trust me. Also, remember when you are complaining about Mike not responding quickly that you are talking to the head hauncho. He is extremely busy and appears to be trying. Please consider these things before you rant about poor service. My experiences with ABS have been nothing but good. The barrels are more accurate, lighter, and disappate heat like you wouldnt believe. Fire away
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
WOW first post ever here on the Hide. You know a crap load about the company in question. I wonder where you work???
WOW first post ever here on the Hide. You know a crap load about the company in question. I wonder where you work???
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Anybody try the Magnum Research wrapped barrels? Been thinking about picking one up with the income tax money and putting it on a 700 in 7mm STW I have.
Anybody try the Magnum Research wrapped barrels? Been thinking about picking one up with the income tax money and putting it on a 700 in 7mm STW I have.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nobearsyet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anybody try the Magnum Research wrapped barrels? Been thinking about picking one up with the income tax money and putting it on a 700 in 7mm STW I have. </div></div>
Never on a centerfire. I did have one on a 10/22 and it shot pretty well and had a tight chamber.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nobearsyet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anybody try the Magnum Research wrapped barrels? Been thinking about picking one up with the income tax money and putting it on a 700 in 7mm STW I have. </div></div>
Never on a centerfire. I did have one on a 10/22 and it shot pretty well and had a tight chamber.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
ranger thanks
I see the difference in process now, but still have troubles
thinking of buying one of these with the complaints that keep popping up. I understand how busy a business can be but customer
service/relations/communication should be priorty one.
If I had a discussion with mike and did not receive my barrel
or responses I would be pissed off too.
ranger thanks
I see the difference in process now, but still have troubles
thinking of buying one of these with the complaints that keep popping up. I understand how busy a business can be but customer
service/relations/communication should be priorty one.
If I had a discussion with mike and did not receive my barrel
or responses I would be pissed off too.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
busy is no excuse for poor c/s
busy is no excuse for poor c/s
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deergrizzly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ranger thanks
I see the difference in process now, but still have troubles thinking of buying one of these with the complaints that keep popping up. I understand how busy a business can be but customer service/relations/communication should be priorty one. If I had a discussion with mike and did not receive my barrel or responses I would be pissed off too. </div></div>
Hey, I'm with you there my Friend. First, ABS is under new management. Second, ABS is also MOVING to Montana.
For me personally, I would wait until ABS (or should I say "ABS 2.0") has it's feet back on solid ground and is up and running full speed again before trying to order a barrel. I'm not talking a matter of days or a few weeks. I'm talking about months just to get up and going full speed again. Once at full speed, then they will have to deal with the massive back log of orders they've accrued.
But hey, if you are a world class Optimist and have the patience of JOB, by all means place an order now. Of course, you might be on post 10,000 before you ever see your barrel!
If you really want a lighter barrel, <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">I'd take a serious look at lightweight FLUTED barrels.</span></span></span>
Kampfeld Custom does some outstanding barrel and bolt fluting I've ever seen!
http://www.kampfeldcustom.com/index_022.htm
I've always liked the variety of fluting that Hart Barrels offers.
http://www.hartbarrels.com/barrels.php
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deergrizzly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ranger thanks
I see the difference in process now, but still have troubles thinking of buying one of these with the complaints that keep popping up. I understand how busy a business can be but customer service/relations/communication should be priorty one. If I had a discussion with mike and did not receive my barrel or responses I would be pissed off too. </div></div>
Hey, I'm with you there my Friend. First, ABS is under new management. Second, ABS is also MOVING to Montana.
For me personally, I would wait until ABS (or should I say "ABS 2.0") has it's feet back on solid ground and is up and running full speed again before trying to order a barrel. I'm not talking a matter of days or a few weeks. I'm talking about months just to get up and going full speed again. Once at full speed, then they will have to deal with the massive back log of orders they've accrued.
But hey, if you are a world class Optimist and have the patience of JOB, by all means place an order now. Of course, you might be on post 10,000 before you ever see your barrel!
If you really want a lighter barrel, <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">I'd take a serious look at lightweight FLUTED barrels.</span></span></span>
Kampfeld Custom does some outstanding barrel and bolt fluting I've ever seen!
http://www.kampfeldcustom.com/index_022.htm
I've always liked the variety of fluting that Hart Barrels offers.
http://www.hartbarrels.com/barrels.php
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Actually I have used the hide quite often for research and people's opinions, just never felt the need to post. I dont work for ABS, they were a local shop before the move to Montana so phone calls/mail wasnt really the method of contacting them that I had to deal with. Just gave my .02 from my experience.
Actually I have used the hide quite often for research and people's opinions, just never felt the need to post. I dont work for ABS, they were a local shop before the move to Montana so phone calls/mail wasnt really the method of contacting them that I had to deal with. Just gave my .02 from my experience.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
That is some of the coolest fluting ive ever seen. The top two of the rifle, I could consider that.
That is some of the coolest fluting ive ever seen. The top two of the rifle, I could consider that.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
What can I say? 2hrs after speaking to Rock Creek about progress, I'm contacted by KK to tell me my barrels will be here in the UK and they were delivered this afternoon. Customer service skills that are simply fantastic, if that's the way they are going to deal with folks going forward I wish KK and his team every success and expect a long and fruitful relationship. Well done guys.
What can I say? 2hrs after speaking to Rock Creek about progress, I'm contacted by KK to tell me my barrels will be here in the UK and they were delivered this afternoon. Customer service skills that are simply fantastic, if that's the way they are going to deal with folks going forward I wish KK and his team every success and expect a long and fruitful relationship. Well done guys.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Yes, ABS is indeed under NEW management!
Yes, ABS is indeed under NEW management!
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
I think those are pretty sharp looking barrels.
I think those are pretty sharp looking barrels.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Just my 2 cents as well, but I've been dealing with Mike at ABS for many years now, and have a few things to say.
One, Mike has been more then busy, he's been swamped, and it was worse then you can imagine. I have visited his shop 3 times in total and he just could not keep up with the phone calls AND work on the barrels...he is the only guy who does the wrapping, or was.
Second, and I don't know how much I can share, but he got a HUGE contract with a branch of the military that ate his time like no tomorrow. They needed data and testing done daily, with some very specific needs, so that just killed his phone time. None the less, he did return phone calls and worked out issues, if you kept up on him
Now
That's all a thing of the past. He has moved into a much larger facility and can finally keep up, and the customer service is really getting good. Mike is a stand-up man and has stood behind his word every time. I have at least 3 barrels from him, and not a one is greater then 1/2 MOA.
To note, a 22-250AI that's shooting over 5000fps and is 1/2" up to 300 yards all day long, and it never gets hot! I have a Carbon 15 4lb 5.56 with the Wylde chamber that I've seen (not my shooting, I'm not that good) shooting .2-.25" groups at 200 yards with Hornady TAP ammunition, and it was more then once! Not to mention is has over 1200 rounds through it and shows literally zero throat erosion, and is still as accurate as the day I first shot it.
But the best testimony I have is the 375 RUM I had. It use to sport a 34" Pac-Nor straight profile that was just under .9" at the muzzle. That barrel had 6 very large(deep) 3/8" flutes running the entire length, and it weighed 17lbs flat...it now is 11.65lbs, cutting 5.35lbs off a fluted barrel!!!! It use to be a 1MOA barrel using the 260 Accubond bullets (my plinking/breaking bullets) and now is 1/2", with either of the 4 bullets I've run in it...it's sold now, and I am very sad, but one has to do what one has to do.
With regards to that military project he was working on...I seen the barrels, and the data. He once did a non-stop 1000 round belt through an M249 (I believe) and the barrel temperature was no more then 540F, which, by the way, showed no damage. It was cool to the touch in about 5 minutes or slightly less, and was fine. He has also had a custom lined barrel go over 47,000 rounds! No joke, honestly! It was on an M4, but I have no idea where the barrel is today. The point is, his barrels are the finest stuff out there, and you just can't argue with that.
Just my 2 cents as well, but I've been dealing with Mike at ABS for many years now, and have a few things to say.
One, Mike has been more then busy, he's been swamped, and it was worse then you can imagine. I have visited his shop 3 times in total and he just could not keep up with the phone calls AND work on the barrels...he is the only guy who does the wrapping, or was.
Second, and I don't know how much I can share, but he got a HUGE contract with a branch of the military that ate his time like no tomorrow. They needed data and testing done daily, with some very specific needs, so that just killed his phone time. None the less, he did return phone calls and worked out issues, if you kept up on him
Now
That's all a thing of the past. He has moved into a much larger facility and can finally keep up, and the customer service is really getting good. Mike is a stand-up man and has stood behind his word every time. I have at least 3 barrels from him, and not a one is greater then 1/2 MOA.
To note, a 22-250AI that's shooting over 5000fps and is 1/2" up to 300 yards all day long, and it never gets hot! I have a Carbon 15 4lb 5.56 with the Wylde chamber that I've seen (not my shooting, I'm not that good) shooting .2-.25" groups at 200 yards with Hornady TAP ammunition, and it was more then once! Not to mention is has over 1200 rounds through it and shows literally zero throat erosion, and is still as accurate as the day I first shot it.
But the best testimony I have is the 375 RUM I had. It use to sport a 34" Pac-Nor straight profile that was just under .9" at the muzzle. That barrel had 6 very large(deep) 3/8" flutes running the entire length, and it weighed 17lbs flat...it now is 11.65lbs, cutting 5.35lbs off a fluted barrel!!!! It use to be a 1MOA barrel using the 260 Accubond bullets (my plinking/breaking bullets) and now is 1/2", with either of the 4 bullets I've run in it...it's sold now, and I am very sad, but one has to do what one has to do.
With regards to that military project he was working on...I seen the barrels, and the data. He once did a non-stop 1000 round belt through an M249 (I believe) and the barrel temperature was no more then 540F, which, by the way, showed no damage. It was cool to the touch in about 5 minutes or slightly less, and was fine. He has also had a custom lined barrel go over 47,000 rounds! No joke, honestly! It was on an M4, but I have no idea where the barrel is today. The point is, his barrels are the finest stuff out there, and you just can't argue with that.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Bettincustomguns.com if anyone wants to read up on the most recent developments in the ABS barrels.
Bettincustomguns.com if anyone wants to read up on the most recent developments in the ABS barrels.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mnshortdraw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bettincustomguns.com if anyone wants to read up on the most recent developments in the ABS barrels. </div></div>
http://www.bettincustomguns.com/Carbon%20Barrels/Carbon%20Barrels.htm
WE NOW SELL ABS CARBON WRAPPED BARREL BLANKS
Bettin Custom Guns has been using carbon wrapped barrels by ABS for several years now. We have specialized in building very accurate, light weight rifles using this patented process.
Bettin Custom Guns is now manufacturing carbon wrapped barrels ourselves, using the patented system originally developed by Advanced Barrel Systems. In cooperation with ABS, we have improved the wrapping procedure to make the process more consistent and efficient. Many of you have had or heard about the ABS carbon wrapped barrels and how well they perform. The problem has been getting the barrels in a timely fashion. Most of the problem previously has been the very time consuming method of applying the resin to the carbon fiber in the correct proportions, efficiently.
The new system takes care of both of these problems, and the end result is the same high quality barrel as before in a much more time efficient manner. In addition, Bettin Custom has installed a state of the art, CNC winding machine, which is capable of wrapping 4 barrels at a time.
We plan to keep the turn around time to about 4 weeks from the time we receive the barrel blank. We also plan on keeping some of the most commonly used barrels, finished and in stock.
We ONLY use Satern cut rifled barrels for the barrel liner, they are specially contoured from Satern to our specs for carbon wrapping. They can produce any caliber in any twist rate you desire.
Total retail cost of complete wrapped barrel= $900
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mnshortdraw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bettincustomguns.com if anyone wants to read up on the most recent developments in the ABS barrels. </div></div>
http://www.bettincustomguns.com/Carbon%20Barrels/Carbon%20Barrels.htm
WE NOW SELL ABS CARBON WRAPPED BARREL BLANKS
Bettin Custom Guns has been using carbon wrapped barrels by ABS for several years now. We have specialized in building very accurate, light weight rifles using this patented process.
Bettin Custom Guns is now manufacturing carbon wrapped barrels ourselves, using the patented system originally developed by Advanced Barrel Systems. In cooperation with ABS, we have improved the wrapping procedure to make the process more consistent and efficient. Many of you have had or heard about the ABS carbon wrapped barrels and how well they perform. The problem has been getting the barrels in a timely fashion. Most of the problem previously has been the very time consuming method of applying the resin to the carbon fiber in the correct proportions, efficiently.
The new system takes care of both of these problems, and the end result is the same high quality barrel as before in a much more time efficient manner. In addition, Bettin Custom has installed a state of the art, CNC winding machine, which is capable of wrapping 4 barrels at a time.
We plan to keep the turn around time to about 4 weeks from the time we receive the barrel blank. We also plan on keeping some of the most commonly used barrels, finished and in stock.
We ONLY use Satern cut rifled barrels for the barrel liner, they are specially contoured from Satern to our specs for carbon wrapping. They can produce any caliber in any twist rate you desire.
Total retail cost of complete wrapped barrel= $900
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Since I've been asked several times, I want to put some speculation to rest.
<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'"><span style="font-weight: bold">I am NOT associated with ABS Barrels, Jense Precision or the new version of ABS (ABS 2.0?) in any way <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">other than being a friend and a customer</span></span>.</span></span>
I have used ABS barrels for almost a decade now. I am a customer and end user and do not receive any income, kickbacks, etc. from ABS. Mike at ABS is someone I've done lots of buying from and also a lot of one-off custom orders from and I consider Mike to be a good friend.
I'm sticking up for my friend, not making excuses for him. I try to tell the other (Mike's) side of the story but I won't sugar coat anything.
I hope this helps in understanding my point of view regarding ABS. Thanks.
Since I've been asked several times, I want to put some speculation to rest.
<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'"><span style="font-weight: bold">I am NOT associated with ABS Barrels, Jense Precision or the new version of ABS (ABS 2.0?) in any way <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">other than being a friend and a customer</span></span>.</span></span>
I have used ABS barrels for almost a decade now. I am a customer and end user and do not receive any income, kickbacks, etc. from ABS. Mike at ABS is someone I've done lots of buying from and also a lot of one-off custom orders from and I consider Mike to be a good friend.
I'm sticking up for my friend, not making excuses for him. I try to tell the other (Mike's) side of the story but I won't sugar coat anything.
I hope this helps in understanding my point of view regarding ABS. Thanks.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Thanks for the heads up. From what I've read I like the 2.0 version much better.
Thanks for the heads up. From what I've read I like the 2.0 version much better.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Hi guys,
I have ordered a carbon wrap barrel, yesterday, from the new owner of ABS. The barrel will be from Benchmark barrel, .20 caliber, 24.5in long no muzzle brake just a titanium barrel nut to seal the tip.
Hoping not to wait to long for it.
Hi guys,
I have ordered a carbon wrap barrel, yesterday, from the new owner of ABS. The barrel will be from Benchmark barrel, .20 caliber, 24.5in long no muzzle brake just a titanium barrel nut to seal the tip.
Hoping not to wait to long for it.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since I've been asked several times, I want to put some speculation to rest.
<span style="text-decoration: line-through"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'"><span style="font-weight: bold">I am NOT associated with ABS Barrels, Jense Precision or the new version of ABS (ABS 2.0?) in any way <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">other than being a friend and a customer</span></span>.</span></span></span>
I have used ABS barrels for almost a decade now. I am a customer and end user and do not receive any income, kickbacks, etc. from ABS. Mike at ABS is someone I've done lots of buying from and also a lot of one-off custom orders from and I consider Mike to be a good friend.
I'm sticking up for my friend, not making excuses for him. I try to tell the other (Mike's) side of the story but I won't sugar coat anything.
I hope this helps in understanding my point of view regarding ABS. Thanks. </div></div>
I can no longer say that I am not affiliated with ABS as Proof Research has bought all the patents used by ABS for carbon wrapping barrels and I work for Proof Research.
Have any questions regarding Proof Research? Ask me, or GAHLizard (one of the nicest, knowlegdeable and most helpful guys you will meet on the Hide) or contact Jense Precision at [email protected] .
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since I've been asked several times, I want to put some speculation to rest.
<span style="text-decoration: line-through"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'"><span style="font-weight: bold">I am NOT associated with ABS Barrels, Jense Precision or the new version of ABS (ABS 2.0?) in any way <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">other than being a friend and a customer</span></span>.</span></span></span>
I have used ABS barrels for almost a decade now. I am a customer and end user and do not receive any income, kickbacks, etc. from ABS. Mike at ABS is someone I've done lots of buying from and also a lot of one-off custom orders from and I consider Mike to be a good friend.
I'm sticking up for my friend, not making excuses for him. I try to tell the other (Mike's) side of the story but I won't sugar coat anything.
I hope this helps in understanding my point of view regarding ABS. Thanks. </div></div>
I can no longer say that I am not affiliated with ABS as Proof Research has bought all the patents used by ABS for carbon wrapping barrels and I work for Proof Research.
Have any questions regarding Proof Research? Ask me, or GAHLizard (one of the nicest, knowlegdeable and most helpful guys you will meet on the Hide) or contact Jense Precision at [email protected] .
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Based on my experience with carbon fiber and carbon wrapped barrels, the only real advantage is weight savings. The wrapping of a barrel with carbon fiber doesn't make a better, more accurate barrel and it's not possible for carbon fiber to draw/radiate heat away from what has become the internal liner (and this brings on an even more interesting subject).
Based on the properties of carbon fiber, it's a much better insulator than it is a conductor of heat. It can conduct heat along its individual fibers, although very poorly, but heat cannot be conducted/radiated through layers of carbon fiber on a rifle barrel.
I've also seen carbon wrapped barrels bleed resin with a small amount of heat being present and I've experienced harmonic issues with every one that I've chambered.
When it comes to accuracy claims of carbon wrapped barrels, I put them in the same category as the "Straight Jacket." Christensen barrels typically shoot in the 1.5" to 2" area and the ABS barrels shoot better than that, but the concept is rather gimmicky (I liken it to putting a rubber donut on the barrel).
If you're looking for a lighter rifle overall, not a bad way to go, but be careful what you buy into....OBOPE (opinion based on personal experience)
Based on my experience with carbon fiber and carbon wrapped barrels, the only real advantage is weight savings. The wrapping of a barrel with carbon fiber doesn't make a better, more accurate barrel and it's not possible for carbon fiber to draw/radiate heat away from what has become the internal liner (and this brings on an even more interesting subject).
Based on the properties of carbon fiber, it's a much better insulator than it is a conductor of heat. It can conduct heat along its individual fibers, although very poorly, but heat cannot be conducted/radiated through layers of carbon fiber on a rifle barrel.
I've also seen carbon wrapped barrels bleed resin with a small amount of heat being present and I've experienced harmonic issues with every one that I've chambered.
When it comes to accuracy claims of carbon wrapped barrels, I put them in the same category as the "Straight Jacket." Christensen barrels typically shoot in the 1.5" to 2" area and the ABS barrels shoot better than that, but the concept is rather gimmicky (I liken it to putting a rubber donut on the barrel).
If you're looking for a lighter rifle overall, not a bad way to go, but be careful what you buy into....OBOPE (opinion based on personal experience)
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Based on my experience with carbon fiber and carbon wrapped barrels, the only real advantage is weight savings. The wrapping of a barrel with carbon fiber doesn't make a better, more accurate barrel and it's not possible for carbon fiber to draw/radiate heat away from what has become the internal liner (and this brings on an even more interesting subject).
Based on the properties of carbon fiber, it's a much better insulator than it is a conductor of heat. It can conduct heat along its individual fibers, although very poorly, but heat cannot be conducted/radiated through layers of carbon fiber on a rifle barrel.
I've also seen carbon wrapped barrels bleed resin with a small amount of heat being present and I've experience harmonic issues with every one that I've ever chambered.
When it comes to accuracy claims of carbon wrapped barrels, I put them in the same category as the "Straight Jacket." Christensen barrels typically shoot in the 1.5" to 2" area and the ABS barrels shoot better than that, but the concept is rather gimmicky (I liken it to putting a rubber donut on the barrel).
If you're looking for a lighter rifle overall, not a bad way to go, but be careful what you buy into....OBOPE (opinion based on personal experience)
</div></div>
Quoted this just to make sure I wasn't hallucinating.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Based on my experience with carbon fiber and carbon wrapped barrels, the only real advantage is weight savings. The wrapping of a barrel with carbon fiber doesn't make a better, more accurate barrel and it's not possible for carbon fiber to draw/radiate heat away from what has become the internal liner (and this brings on an even more interesting subject).
Based on the properties of carbon fiber, it's a much better insulator than it is a conductor of heat. It can conduct heat along its individual fibers, although very poorly, but heat cannot be conducted/radiated through layers of carbon fiber on a rifle barrel.
I've also seen carbon wrapped barrels bleed resin with a small amount of heat being present and I've experience harmonic issues with every one that I've ever chambered.
When it comes to accuracy claims of carbon wrapped barrels, I put them in the same category as the "Straight Jacket." Christensen barrels typically shoot in the 1.5" to 2" area and the ABS barrels shoot better than that, but the concept is rather gimmicky (I liken it to putting a rubber donut on the barrel).
If you're looking for a lighter rifle overall, not a bad way to go, but be careful what you buy into....OBOPE (opinion based on personal experience)
</div></div>
Quoted this just to make sure I wasn't hallucinating.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Based on my experience with carbon fiber and carbon wrapped barrels, the only real advantage is weight savings. The wrapping of a barrel with carbon fiber doesn't make a better, more accurate barrel and it's not possible for carbon fiber to draw/radiate heat away from what has become the internal liner (and this brings on an even more interesting subject).
Based on the properties of carbon fiber, it's a much better insulator than it is a conductor of heat. It can conduct heat along its individual fibers, although very poorly, but heat cannot be conducted/radiated through layers of carbon fiber on a rifle barrel.
I've also seen carbon wrapped barrels bleed resin with a small amount of heat being present and I've experience harmonic issues with every one that I've ever chambered.
When it comes to accuracy claims of carbon wrapped barrels, I put them in the same category as the "Straight Jacket." Christensen barrels typically shoot in the 1.5" to 2" area and the ABS barrels shoot better than that, but the concept is rather gimmicky (I liken it to putting a rubber donut on the barrel).
If you're looking for a lighter rifle overall, not a bad way to go, but be careful what you buy into....OBOPE (opinion based on personal experience)
</div></div>
Quoted this just to make sure I wasn't hallucinating. </div></div>
Why would you be hallucinating?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Based on my experience with carbon fiber and carbon wrapped barrels, the only real advantage is weight savings. The wrapping of a barrel with carbon fiber doesn't make a better, more accurate barrel and it's not possible for carbon fiber to draw/radiate heat away from what has become the internal liner (and this brings on an even more interesting subject).
Based on the properties of carbon fiber, it's a much better insulator than it is a conductor of heat. It can conduct heat along its individual fibers, although very poorly, but heat cannot be conducted/radiated through layers of carbon fiber on a rifle barrel.
I've also seen carbon wrapped barrels bleed resin with a small amount of heat being present and I've experience harmonic issues with every one that I've ever chambered.
When it comes to accuracy claims of carbon wrapped barrels, I put them in the same category as the "Straight Jacket." Christensen barrels typically shoot in the 1.5" to 2" area and the ABS barrels shoot better than that, but the concept is rather gimmicky (I liken it to putting a rubber donut on the barrel).
If you're looking for a lighter rifle overall, not a bad way to go, but be careful what you buy into....OBOPE (opinion based on personal experience)
</div></div>
Quoted this just to make sure I wasn't hallucinating. </div></div>
Why would you be hallucinating?
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
I have a couple of ABS barrels in M24 contour and they shoot very well. It my opinion, the weight savings in the biggest benefit but they are spendy.
Mike is a friend of mine and I hope the new venture work well for all involved. The ABS wrapping process work well and produces a great product but the history of the business proves again that CS is as or more important than the product.
Would I buy again...sure but the price really needs to come down for the numbers to work. At $900 you can shoot through a couple of quality barrels and still be real close to even. If cool is your deal they are hard to beat.
I have a couple of ABS barrels in M24 contour and they shoot very well. It my opinion, the weight savings in the biggest benefit but they are spendy.
Mike is a friend of mine and I hope the new venture work well for all involved. The ABS wrapping process work well and produces a great product but the history of the business proves again that CS is as or more important than the product.
Would I buy again...sure but the price really needs to come down for the numbers to work. At $900 you can shoot through a couple of quality barrels and still be real close to even. If cool is your deal they are hard to beat.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
Skunkworks " I've experience harmonic issues with every one that I've ever chambered"
Can you explain a little about what you mean by this?
Skunkworks " I've experience harmonic issues with every one that I've ever chambered"
Can you explain a little about what you mean by this?
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deergrizzly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Skunkworks " I've experience harmonic issues with every one that I've ever chambered"
Can you explain a little about what you mean by this? </div></div>
DG,
Basically, there's a lot of hum during the turning of the breech that isn't present with non-wrapped barrels (using the same rigid set-ups of course). This hum is associated with LF chatter that could not be eliminated with tooling, work-holding or S/F changes. This LF chatter isn't present in the non-wrapped barrels regardless of tooling, work-holding and S/F set-ups.
I don't regard this characteristic as desirable.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deergrizzly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Skunkworks " I've experience harmonic issues with every one that I've ever chambered"
Can you explain a little about what you mean by this? </div></div>
DG,
Basically, there's a lot of hum during the turning of the breech that isn't present with non-wrapped barrels (using the same rigid set-ups of course). This hum is associated with LF chatter that could not be eliminated with tooling, work-holding or S/F changes. This LF chatter isn't present in the non-wrapped barrels regardless of tooling, work-holding and S/F set-ups.
I don't regard this characteristic as desirable.
Re: Carbon wrapping a Barrel
I run two different rifles with carbon wrapped Saturn barrels. One 243 and one 284. I have delt only with KK Jense of Jense Precision, at this time he is ABS. I have had extremely great service from him and both rifles shoot .25 moa or better. In my experience with these carbon barrels I have had no harmonic issues any more than any other steel barrel. I have found that they do indeed cool faster than my steel barrels, and they like the heat, during long strings of fire the zero just seems to get tighter. I have 1200+ rounds through the 284 and so far the lands haven't moved, I can't wait to see what the barrel life ends up at. If you have any tech questions I suggest you call Jense Precision.
I run two different rifles with carbon wrapped Saturn barrels. One 243 and one 284. I have delt only with KK Jense of Jense Precision, at this time he is ABS. I have had extremely great service from him and both rifles shoot .25 moa or better. In my experience with these carbon barrels I have had no harmonic issues any more than any other steel barrel. I have found that they do indeed cool faster than my steel barrels, and they like the heat, during long strings of fire the zero just seems to get tighter. I have 1200+ rounds through the 284 and so far the lands haven't moved, I can't wait to see what the barrel life ends up at. If you have any tech questions I suggest you call Jense Precision.
