Gunsmithing Cerakote Application

#51
Re: Cerakote Application

You have multiple options. You could coat the whole rifle and flash cure it for 20 minutes and then apply the second color to your flutes. Or you could mask the flutes and after either temp curing or full curing the first color you can do your flutes. Which is easiest will be up to you.
 
#52
Re: Cerakote Application

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedCreek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have just been reading through the posts on this topic and have never seen more bad advice, made up facts and just complete crap.

NIC Industries has a Cerakote Applicatior Guide, which I helped write. If you can't locate it on their website email me and I will forward you (or anyone else) a copy.

Just to correct some very bad facts:
1. <span style="font-weight: bold">Cerakote is non-toxic, VOC free</span> and 50 state exempt, unlike its teflon based competitors
<span style="font-weight: bold">
A reading of the MSDS would not imply any lack of toxicity?

Cerakote:
http://www.nicindustries.com/images/techsheets/H-Series%20Part%20A.pdf

Hardener:
http://www.nicindustries.com/images/techsheets/H-Series%20Part%20B.pdf

And this language form the Cerakote web site?

Wear safety goggles or face shield for your protection. Work in a well ventilated area. If ventilation is not available, wear a respirator –see MSDS for additional information.

and from the MSDS

Route of Entry: Eyes, Ingestion, Inhalation, Skin
Target Organs: Central Nervous System, Kidneys, Liver
May produce symptoms of central nervous system depression including headache, dizziness,
nausea, loss of balance, and drowsiness
Inhalation:
Skin Contact: May be irritating
Eye Contact: May be irritating
Ingestion: Ingestion may cause damage to the lining of the gastrointestinal tract
HHMMIISS ® IIR-artaintgi nHg3s /(F2s/cPaHl1e 0-4): Health = 3, Fire = 2, Reactivity = 1

Non toxic things don't require ventilation warning like this do they?
I think I will stick with my mask with VOC filters anyway.
</span>

2. Baking in a kitchen oven, or any other oven with exposed burners can ruin the finish and even severly damage the firearm, as the burners can reach in excess of 1200 degrees.
<span style="font-weight: bold">
Do the parts immediately rise to the temperature of any exposed heating element? Distance from the elements, thermal mass of the components, and air circulation are out of the equation?
This seems an overly narrow reading of the suggested curing oven requirements.</span>

3. Cerakote outperforms all of its competitors in virtually every performance metric. 5,000 hours salt spray, 6,000 Tabor wear cycles, 9h Pencil hardness, etc. I have detailed product information on my website, which can be downloaded.

<span style="font-weight: bold">From what I can gather I certainly agree on the quality of Cerakote as a finish.
cool.gif

Not sure how any information in this thread refutes this in any way? </span>

4. It doesn't "smell to high heaven" I work with it every day and have many years experience with the product.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Well, "high heaven" is certainly subjective. It does have a particular, identifiable and IMO, strong odor.
WRT to odors while curing, I found that it was much less objectionable than Norell's for sure.</span>

5. Shelf life is one (1) year if not refrigerated, five (5) years if refrigerated

<span style="font-weight: bold">I didn't recall this refuted anywhere in the thread. But the 5 year lifetime is certainly good news as that is how I have been storing mine.
cool.gif
</span>

5. The prep suggested by some is way out there. I do coating for several other manufacturers, including Bravo18's AKM's, <span style="color: #FF0000">some</span> guns need more than one cycle, but the correct prep isn't on this site.
<span style="font-weight: bold">
I was pretty sure that prep was somewhat parts specific in terms of pre-bake cycles required.
while the exact verbiage of the NIC web site may not be present I wouldn't indict the entire thread.</span>

6. There is too much more BS on this topic to respond to it all, but if anyone has questions and wants true fact based answers, just email me.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Perhaps Cerakote is much more forgiving than it is given credit for and thus another reason to recommend it?</span>


Regards,

-Ernie

Red Creek Tactical - NIC Industries Premier Partner - Certified Cerakote Applicator
[email protected]
www.redcreektactical.com

</div></div>
 
#53
Re: Cerakote Application

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wfpack14</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was looking at the cerakote website and was curious if anyone knew how to apply it yourself? What type of equipment does it take, and will cerakote even sell me the stuff if I am not a certified applicator?

</div></div>

Go to Brownells and buy what you need, then "RTFM" that comes with it.
wink.gif


 
#54
Re: Cerakote Application

Mark,

There is a differnce between "Highly Toxic" and a toxicity rating which is "low to moderate" (level 2). Some Teflon based products can put off toxic fumes when baked, which can, in fact be deadly and I just wanted to make the differentiation.

Obviously, drinking it would be ill advised, as would doing extended spraying in an unvnetileted area without a respirator, which I have seen some do. I never said not to follow the MSDS guidline's

On ovens, i actually wrote that part of the new Cerakote applicator guide. I have seen with my own eyes, revolvers and pistols destroyed by being placed too close to the elements. I have also seen the Cerakote discolored or damaged. Also, above 500 degrees, which the metal can reach before the oven leveles off can destroy the heat treating and tempering of metal parts. My adivice was to be "extremely careful" when using ovens with exposed elements.

On smell, clearly its not chocolate chip cookies, but the smell is very non-offensive or overpowering in my opinion.

On the prep steps some had many additional steps, which in my opinion arent required and not recommended by NIC. Why have people do a lot of unnecessary steps. Some guns like AK's may require several solvent soak and pre-bake cycles, but after you have blasted and pre-baked you dont need to and should not put it back in the solvent tank or spray it off with brake cleaner, unless there is oil which came out durring the pre-bake and then you should bake it again. One of the purposes of the pre-bake is to dry out any solent or cleaner...

As for your last comment, I think most never actually attempt it, but were merely thinking about it. If they do attempt it hopfully the advice they get from guys like you and me on the forums is good, solid fact based advice and my comments were given in that spirit.

Also, there is clearly a difference between the hobby coater and those who have professional shops dedicated to Cerakote work and the standards and expectations are obviosly different.

Best regards,

-Ernie
 
#55
Re: Cerakote Application

Ernie,

mine in bold

Thanks,
Mark

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedCreek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mark,

There is a differnce between "Highly Toxic" and a toxicity rating which is "low to moderate" (level 2). Some Teflon based products can <span style="font-weight: bold">put off toxic fumes when baked,</span> which can, in fact be deadly and I just wanted to make the differentiation.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Certainly there are greater and lesser levels. I sort of read "non-toxic" as "benign". I was also thinking more of the fumes and such when spraying, rather than baking. Actually Cerakote when baked seems to have very little odor compared to Norell's</span>

Obviously, drinking it would be ill advised, as would doing extended spraying in an unvnetileted area without a respirator, which I have seen some do. I never said not to follow the MSDS guidline's

On ovens, i actually wrote that part of the new Cerakote applicator guide. I have seen with my own eyes, revolvers and pistols destroyed by being placed too close to the elements. I have also seen the Cerakote discolored or damaged. Also, above 500 degrees, which the metal can reach before the oven leveles off can destroy the heat treating and tempering of metal parts. My adivice was to be "extremely careful" when using ovens with exposed elements.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Maybe I've been lucky, and have a fairly large oven. (Got my barreled Mauser action in there!
grin.gif
) I tend to try to preheat the oven to avoid the broiler element that comes on to increase the preheat speed.
</span>

On smell, clearly its not chocolate chip cookies, but the smell is very non-offensive or overpowering in my opinion.
<span style="font-weight: bold">
The odor of Cerakote itself has a really distinct odor that reminds me specifically of the old "urinal cakes" in public restrooms when I was a kid. Yeah let's all laugh together here.
blush.gif
</span>

On the prep steps some had many additional steps, which in my opinion arent required and not recommended by NIC. Why have people do a lot of unnecessary steps. S<span style="font-weight: bold">ome guns like AK's may require several solvent soak and pre-bake cycles,</span> but after you have blasted and pre-baked you dont need to and should not put it back in the solvent tank or spray it off with brake cleaner, unless there is oil which came out durring the pre-bake and then you should bake it again. One of the purposes of the pre-bake is to dry out any solent or cleaner...

<span style="font-weight: bold">Oh yeah. AK's especially ones that have been together for a while are the pits. Mine was a total PITA.</span>

As for your last comment, I think most never actually attempt it, but were merely thinking about it. If they do attempt it hopfully the advice they get from guys like you and me on the forums is good, solid fact based advice and my comments were given in that spirit.

Also, there is clearly <span style="font-weight: bold">a difference between the hobby coater and those who have professional shops</span> dedicated to Cerakote work and the standards and expectations are obviosly different.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Certainly. I'm working to move towards the latter though.</span>

Best regards,

-Ernie



</div></div>
 
#56
Re: Cerakote Application

To me it seems like a great idea to follow the preperation, application and baking instructions given on the NIC website & video as closely as possible. With that being said, with what I gather from here and every other site I search, it seems that Cerakote is pretty forgiving to a reasonable extent. Obviously if do a half a** job on degreasing,blasting,pre-baking or spraying, you are going to get a not so great finish, but that goes for any coating. As for the toxicity, due to the hardener I would say to be more careful towards inhalation than spray paint,again obvious, and that you should pretty much wear a mask regardless and don't try to spray your guns inside your outhouse, but again you have to be reasonable. So to sum it up, follow the instructions as closely as possible(within reason), wear a mask, don't bake it at the same time you bake your pizza, if you really need it ask your neighbor to provide some common sense, and good luck!!! Once you see how it comes out then maybe post some pics of your success or your failure, and what you did to correct the problems you have. And to be completely clear, I am not disputing any of the facts from the MSDS or NIC! I am just trying to sum up all of the suggestions and statements in this thread.
 
#57
Re: Cerakote Application

Just for the record, I use a highflow spray booth and still wear a respirator and eye protection, wouldnt be prudent not to.
The comment I took issue with was saying Cerakote is "highly toxic" giving the impression its dangerous to work with.

In fact its very low in toxicity and safe to work with if the Mfg reccommended safety precations are followed. Nuff said

Also, for the record, I helped write the Training Manual with NIC for Cerakote and recently won their 2011 Applicator Contest.

Rather than post photos you can see my work on my website photo gallery. http://www.redcreektactical.com/photogallery.html

Best regards

-Ernie
 
#60
Re: Cerakote Application

Starting with some Air-Dry Cerakote and had a question. Have worked with Duracoat before (not liking the durability so switching to Cerakote) and if you were applying multiple colors of Duracoat they recommended to use a clear final coat to even out the finish after you removed the stencils. Do you need to do that with Cerakote since it applies much thinner than Duracoat?

Thanks, Skeeter
 
#61
Re: Cerakote Application

No, you dont need to apply any clear coat. I do multi-color camo all the time on scopes, lights, and stocks which cant be baked in the C-Series.

With stick on stencils you have to be careful not to apply to heavy a coat. When you remove the stencils there should be no lines you can feel if you did it right.

Regards,

-Ernie
 
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