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Baron85XSergeant
Rating: 3.1/5 this site
492 posts this site
Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/07/2017
I just sold my chargemaster after picking up a fx120i and auto trickler. Before i sold the chargemaster I did a few tests. First was an accuracy test. I threw 20 charges Of varget with chargemaster set at 40 gn. I then measured each charge on my fx120i. I found the chargemaster was pretty inconsistent, atleast to me. The lowest charge thrown was 39.92gn and the heaviest was 40.08. All of those showed 40gn on the chargemaster. I had 1 overthrow that the chargemaster showed was 40.02 and the fx showed 40.14.
Both scales were allowed approximetly 30 min to warm up, both were plugged into the same outlet on the same bench with no flourecent lights around. The chargemaster has been reprogrammed, and using the insert that the forum member makes here. Both were also calibrated with the exact same check weights.
As far as time goes I tested by loading 2 batches of 50 6.5x47 lapua.
I believe my load was 40.2 gn of IMR 4451 ( at work and load data is at home) i was able to load all 50 rounds including seating bullets in 23 minutes. With the A&D it took me 29 minutes. This was also my second time using the auto trickler and took me a few tries to find the right scoop and get the unit adjusted properly so not exactly a fair test but it is what it is. My technique with the chargemaster is throw a charge and seat the bullet while the next charge is being thrown. I'm usually waiting for the chargemaster to finish. With the A&D I throw a charge, dump powder, set pan back on scale, move funnel to next case while scale settles, use Lyman powder scoops to dump bulk charge into pan, a few seconds later dump charge and repeat. It is increadable quick and varied mostly .02-.04 grains with s couple over charges I dumped back. With the way I was doing it I had to charge all cases then come back and seat bullets. I have since refined my technique some by slowing down the speed on the auto trickler which has done 2 things for me. First, it has made it more consistent. Second, it has allowed me to seat a bullet while it is finishing up a charge. I have not timed my new technique but I'm pretty sure I'm around 15 minutes per 50 cases.
I upgraded not due to accuracy problems with the chargemaster, even though it seemed I would have an occasional flyer, I upgraded for speed. I have very little free time and would rather be shooting than loading. I usually had a SD of mid teens. So far I am very happy with my new set up and with some more practice feel it will be much faster than my chargemaster setup
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ZiaHunterX50 MONTHS
Premium Member
Gunny Sergeant
Rating: 3.3/5 this site
876 posts this site
Re: Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/07/2017
Ran a similar test a while ago checking the CM 1500 with a Sartorius Entris 64. Both scales were calibrated with test weights prior to the test. I will leave conclusion up to the reader. Results are as follows:
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gunsnjeepsXFirst Sergeant
Rating: 3.2/5 this site
1168 posts this site
Re: Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/07/2017
I think RCBS states +/- .1 grain accuracy.
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Baron85XSergeant
Rating: 3.1/5 this site
492 posts this site
Re: Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/07/2017
Ziahunter, thanks for posting your test. What was your real world results at the range? Do you have before and after chrono data? Better groups at distance?
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nexusfireXFirst Sergeant
Rating: 2.6/5 this site
1651 posts this site
Re: Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/08/2017
Tag
Rate now:
SheldonN
XFirst Sergeant
Rating: 3.6/5 this site
1329 posts this site
Re: Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/08/2017
Thanks guys for sharing, helpful info.
Rate now:
ZiaHunterX50 MONTHS
Premium Member
Gunny Sergeant
Rating: 3.3/5 this site
876 posts this site
Re: Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/08/2017 Last edited 01/08/2017 by ZiaHunter
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padom
XFirst Sergeant
Rating: 3.8/5 this site
3050 posts this site
Re: Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/08/2017
(1 vote)
Yes, the CH has +/- 0.1g accuracy so your tests show the CH's accuracy is within spec.
As long as your performaning proper losd development picking a charge weight in the center of your node 0.1-0.2g +/- isnt going to change anythint downrange. Thats the whole point of OCW load development.
All my loads for my rifles have repeated 0.5moa or better accuracy and single digit SD's all dropped on 2 Chargemasters...
Rate now:
ZiaHunterX50 MONTHS
Premium Member
Gunny Sergeant
Rating: 3.3/5 this site
876 posts this site
Re: Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/08/2017 Last edited 01/08/2017 by ZiaHunter
Just a note when doing the test on the CM 1500. The unit had a straw inserted into the tube and quarters placed under the front feet. No modifications were made to the programming.
Rate now:
Aimsmall55XFirst Sergeant
Rating: 3.4/5 this site
3311 posts this site
Re: Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/13/2017
Here's what I did... I simply bought an extra pan to terre onto the A&D FX 120 i. I run three charge masters and when the charge master is done throwing, I simply use a omega power trickler to add the remaining weight as I go .1 grains below my target weight. Works FAST and gives me single digit Es and Sd.
[IMG2=JSON]{"alt":" photo 0655A1B8-7EB1-4356-99A7-A81B57FA95A1_zpsc75hhag9.jpg","data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i1355.photobucket.com\/albums\/q715\/Todd_Ellis\/shooting%20pics\/0655A1B8-7EB1-4356-99A7-A81B57FA95A1_zpsc75hhag9.jpg"}[/IMG2]
Rate now:
mijp5XFirst Sergeant
Rating: 3.0/5 this site
2084 posts this site
Re: Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/14/2017
The guy who made the auto trickler wrote an excellent essay on range precision vs charge precision. It really hits home. If the goal of charging with this method vs the CM is speed, then go for it. However, if you think it will make you shoot better, you should reconsider.
Rating: 3.1/5 this site
492 posts this site
Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/07/2017
I just sold my chargemaster after picking up a fx120i and auto trickler. Before i sold the chargemaster I did a few tests. First was an accuracy test. I threw 20 charges Of varget with chargemaster set at 40 gn. I then measured each charge on my fx120i. I found the chargemaster was pretty inconsistent, atleast to me. The lowest charge thrown was 39.92gn and the heaviest was 40.08. All of those showed 40gn on the chargemaster. I had 1 overthrow that the chargemaster showed was 40.02 and the fx showed 40.14.
Both scales were allowed approximetly 30 min to warm up, both were plugged into the same outlet on the same bench with no flourecent lights around. The chargemaster has been reprogrammed, and using the insert that the forum member makes here. Both were also calibrated with the exact same check weights.
As far as time goes I tested by loading 2 batches of 50 6.5x47 lapua.
I believe my load was 40.2 gn of IMR 4451 ( at work and load data is at home) i was able to load all 50 rounds including seating bullets in 23 minutes. With the A&D it took me 29 minutes. This was also my second time using the auto trickler and took me a few tries to find the right scoop and get the unit adjusted properly so not exactly a fair test but it is what it is. My technique with the chargemaster is throw a charge and seat the bullet while the next charge is being thrown. I'm usually waiting for the chargemaster to finish. With the A&D I throw a charge, dump powder, set pan back on scale, move funnel to next case while scale settles, use Lyman powder scoops to dump bulk charge into pan, a few seconds later dump charge and repeat. It is increadable quick and varied mostly .02-.04 grains with s couple over charges I dumped back. With the way I was doing it I had to charge all cases then come back and seat bullets. I have since refined my technique some by slowing down the speed on the auto trickler which has done 2 things for me. First, it has made it more consistent. Second, it has allowed me to seat a bullet while it is finishing up a charge. I have not timed my new technique but I'm pretty sure I'm around 15 minutes per 50 cases.
I upgraded not due to accuracy problems with the chargemaster, even though it seemed I would have an occasional flyer, I upgraded for speed. I have very little free time and would rather be shooting than loading. I usually had a SD of mid teens. So far I am very happy with my new set up and with some more practice feel it will be much faster than my chargemaster setup
Rate now:
ZiaHunterX50 MONTHS
Premium Member
Gunny Sergeant
Rating: 3.3/5 this site
876 posts this site
Re: Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/07/2017
Ran a similar test a while ago checking the CM 1500 with a Sartorius Entris 64. Both scales were calibrated with test weights prior to the test. I will leave conclusion up to the reader. Results are as follows:
| Chargemaster 1500 Accuracy Test | ||||
| Test Charge 42.0 Gr. H4350 | ||||
| Measured on Sartorius ENTRIS 64-1S | ||||
| Sample | Weight | Results | ||
| 1 | 42.066 | Mean Weight | 41.981 | |
| 2 | 42.034 | Minimum Weight | 41.886 | |
| 3 | 42.046 | Maximum Weight | 42.066 | |
| 4 | 42.042 | Spread | 0.180 | |
| 5 | 42.008 | Standard Deviation | 0.050025593 | |
| 6 | 41.954 | 95% Confidence Level | 0.02192428 | |
| 7 | 42.030 | Median | 41.987 | |
| 8 | 41.956 | Mode | 41.954 | |
| 9 | 41.886 | |||
| 10 | 41.996 | |||
| 11 | 41.994 | |||
| 12 | 42.006 | |||
| 13 | 41.930 | |||
| 14 | 41.954 | |||
| 15 | 41.944 | |||
| 16 | 41.912 | |||
| 17 | 41.928 | |||
| 18 | 41.980 | |||
| 19 | 42.026 | |||
| 20 | 41.924 |
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gunsnjeepsXFirst Sergeant
Rating: 3.2/5 this site
1168 posts this site
Re: Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/07/2017
I think RCBS states +/- .1 grain accuracy.
Rate now:
Baron85XSergeant
Rating: 3.1/5 this site
492 posts this site
Re: Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/07/2017
Ziahunter, thanks for posting your test. What was your real world results at the range? Do you have before and after chrono data? Better groups at distance?
Rate now:
nexusfireXFirst Sergeant
Rating: 2.6/5 this site
1651 posts this site
Re: Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/08/2017
Tag
Rate now:
SheldonN
XFirst Sergeant
Rating: 3.6/5 this site
1329 posts this site
Re: Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/08/2017
Thanks guys for sharing, helpful info.
Rate now:
ZiaHunterX50 MONTHS
Premium Member
Gunny Sergeant
Rating: 3.3/5 this site
876 posts this site
Re: Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/08/2017 Last edited 01/08/2017 by ZiaHunter
Baron85 wrote:
Ziahunter, thanks for posting your test. What was your real world results at the range? Do you have before and after chrono data? Better groups at distance?
I was able to to obtain sub 10 SD's with with larger capacity cases with the CM 1500. Shooting steel at longer distances out to a 1000 yards was not an issue but did have more vertical dispersion as compared to weighing charges on the Entris 64. Entris weighs to a .001 grains and will weigh accurately within one kernel of powder. Average kernel weight for H4350 is approximately .023 grains. With good case prep Entris will consistently produce sub 3 SD's with very low ES. For most rifles the CM1500 will keep you within the node. Shooting F Class would be a different story.Ziahunter, thanks for posting your test. What was your real world results at the range? Do you have before and after chrono data? Better groups at distance?
Rate now:
padom
XFirst Sergeant
Rating: 3.8/5 this site
3050 posts this site
Re: Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/08/2017
(1 vote)
Yes, the CH has +/- 0.1g accuracy so your tests show the CH's accuracy is within spec.
As long as your performaning proper losd development picking a charge weight in the center of your node 0.1-0.2g +/- isnt going to change anythint downrange. Thats the whole point of OCW load development.
All my loads for my rifles have repeated 0.5moa or better accuracy and single digit SD's all dropped on 2 Chargemasters...
Rate now:
ZiaHunterX50 MONTHS
Premium Member
Gunny Sergeant
Rating: 3.3/5 this site
876 posts this site
Re: Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/08/2017 Last edited 01/08/2017 by ZiaHunter
Just a note when doing the test on the CM 1500. The unit had a straw inserted into the tube and quarters placed under the front feet. No modifications were made to the programming.
Rate now:
Aimsmall55XFirst Sergeant
Rating: 3.4/5 this site
3311 posts this site
Re: Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/13/2017
Here's what I did... I simply bought an extra pan to terre onto the A&D FX 120 i. I run three charge masters and when the charge master is done throwing, I simply use a omega power trickler to add the remaining weight as I go .1 grains below my target weight. Works FAST and gives me single digit Es and Sd.
[IMG2=JSON]{"alt":" photo 0655A1B8-7EB1-4356-99A7-A81B57FA95A1_zpsc75hhag9.jpg","data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i1355.photobucket.com\/albums\/q715\/Todd_Ellis\/shooting%20pics\/0655A1B8-7EB1-4356-99A7-A81B57FA95A1_zpsc75hhag9.jpg"}[/IMG2]
Rate now:
mijp5XFirst Sergeant
Rating: 3.0/5 this site
2084 posts this site
Re: Chargemaster vs A&D fx120i and auto trickler. Test with
01/14/2017
The guy who made the auto trickler wrote an excellent essay on range precision vs charge precision. It really hits home. If the goal of charging with this method vs the CM is speed, then go for it. However, if you think it will make you shoot better, you should reconsider.
