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Clean burning pistol powders

jr81452

jr81452

Professional Skeptic
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 5, 2007
718
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Saint petersburg, Florida
Been using Accurate # series powders for my pistols (32acp, 9mm, 38/357mag, 357sig, 40s&w, 10mm) for about 15yrs now. Getting tired of the carbon cake buildup in the actions. Looking to switch to something super clean burning. Anyone have a recommendation?
Bonus if the same powder can be used for 2 or more of the listed cartridges. I tend to favor the heavier bullets (that match readily available commercial target ammo. e.i. 9mm -124gr, 40s&w - 180gr etc)
 
Win 231 is in the dictionary listed as an antonym for "clean burning powder" but it is just oh so friendly.
 
I have not used it but VV N320 has been recommended as one of the cleanest out there.

Hard to beat Titegroup for the money, its not the cleanest, but also not super dirty. I also use Clays, which I like as it shoots softer for the same velocity and "seems" to be cleaner...unfortunately its not as versatile, especially in major power 9mm and beyond.

iiiiiiiis there a perfect pistol powder? Lol
 
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i have been playing with alliant sport pistol and am very pleased with its recoil impulse and cleanliness with blue bullets, if you run plated bullets titegroup is great but its a little fast for coated bullets as far as gunk build up
 
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Another vote for N320. Used a lot leading .40 for USPSA. Clean. Meters well in a 550. Not the cheapest, though.
 
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N320 is the cleanest powder I have ever encountered for pistol. I have/shot TG, BE, Clays, W231, PP, CFE, AA5-7-9, mil surplus, etc. Nothing comes close to N320 in terms of "clean shooting."
 
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N320 plus lead free primers often leave cases looking unfired. If I goto the range today and shoot some of that combo I'll try and take some pics
 
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AA 5 works well but for acc i still prefer dirty old bull.
 
Mike Casselton said:
That's the way TiteGroup burns when you add a LF primer.
It was actually designed for use with them.
Click to expand...

I did not know this, but that’s legit. Who all makes lead free primers? I see fiocchi does. I don’t think I’ve ever seen them, or remember seeing them at any LGS
 
i looked for lead free primers when the first came out having shot a few boxes of win clean and been impressed with the shiny inside of the fired cases, i got ahold of someone i don't remember where and was told the lead free primers were not available to consumers as they needed to be crimped into the primer pockets, i have never seen an advertised lead free primer for sale in store or online, i would probably make the switch as why put extra lead in my life
 
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I’m using cfe pistol and that’s pretty clean burning. Way cleaner than titegroup for me.
 
Gustav7 said:
Also interested if it can handle lower charges well. I load alot of light loads for various pistol calibers.
Click to expand...

that’s what I’ve tried to do with N320 but anything below about 3.8ishwill not cycle the slide reliably....4.1 shot great last Saturday we shot about 250 rounds but it was earlier yesterday same load latter in the day was pretty hot.

I tried
HS-6 shot good
power pistol ok but flat primers low is the range
CFE...this stuff shot outstanding so I’ll be running the CFE now....I just bought a Bunch of N320 too.

5.1g CFE 124g extreme JRN about 30ft upper group 5 rounds
F94569C4-7FDE-482E-A7B6-F0744D7E28D2.jpeg
 
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About a year ago, I switched from Titegroup to Alliant Sport Pistol for my 9mm. Cleaner burning and it doesn't have any static cling inside my hopper. Much cooler burning than TG after a 32 round CoF in USPSA.
 
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It’s like brushing your teeth, clean your guns.

I must be in a mood but here goes: Seriously, you are choosing a powder, not for performance for even just simple availability, you want to pick a powder so you don’t have to clean so much? Seriously? Maybe you should look into a different hobby. Yes, I said hobby :p
 
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Gustav7 said:
I did not know this, but that’s legit. Who all makes lead free primers? I see fiocchi does. I don’t think I’ve ever seen them, or remember seeing them at any LGS
Click to expand...

Fiocchi's are out everywhere right now but Grafs, Selway and some others carry them regularly (or at least they used to). I've got a bunch of their small rifle and small pistol primers stocked up, they're all I use.
 
mongoosesnipe said:
i looked for lead free primers when the first came out having shot a few boxes of win clean and been impressed with the shiny inside of the fired cases, i got ahold of someone i don't remember where and was told the lead free primers were not available to consumers as they needed to be crimped into the primer pockets, i have never seen an advertised lead free primer for sale in store or online, i would probably make the switch as why put extra lead in my life
Click to expand...

I've never heard/seen that about lead free primers. Personally I've never crimped any of mine in rifle or pistol.
 
So these are some of my cases from this weekend. 3.6gr of N320 with a 147gr Speer TMJ bullet loaded at 1.142. The cases actually look a little bit cleaner in person but even in the pics the cases don't look too bad.
 

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mercervillerental said:
So these are some of my cases from this weekend. 3.6gr of N320 with a 147gr Speer TMJ bullet loaded at 1.142. The cases actually look a little bit cleaner in person but even in the pics the cases don't look too bad.
Click to expand...

Damn thats pretty clean. I'd love to see about 3.0gr behind a 125gr bullet out of a .38spl.
 
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Thanks for all the responses thus far. A couple of remarks addressed:
I tend to load warm-hot (eg. 40s&w: 180gr jhp- aa#5 6.8gr - 34.2k psi), as I mostly try to replicate factory carry/defense loads with my training ammo. Not really sure why so many of you seem to like low power loads.

Not terribly concerned with how clean the cases are because I wet polish. My primary irritation with AA# X powders is the residue buildup in the action and mags/mag well. I'm tired of having to fully strip and clean the pistols and mags every 1500 rounds to ensure reliability. I would like to double it to 3k without a malfunction if possible. I've been able to achieve that goal with certain factory target loads.

Accuracy is relative. I did load work ups with 22 different powders back in 06' (from a ransom rest) and found that bullet selection was the primary factor in accuracy. The selected powders all had a load range where accuracy was near equal with any other powder used with the same projectile in the same barrel. Likewise primer selection changed the optimum charge of a powder, but peak accuracy for the projectile/barrel was still attainable with the correct load. Though, the accuracy range may not fit into a specific power factor
or velocity range, in which case powder/primer selection may matter more.

I don't seem to have any load data for V-V N320. Is it relatively new? My primary load books are lyman 48th edition, hornady 7th, and lee 2nd, so I'm probably a little out of date.
 
filefish said:
It’s like brushing your teeth, clean your guns.

I must be in a mood but here goes: Seriously, you are choosing a powder, not for performance for even just simple availability, you want to pick a powder so you don’t have to clean so much? Seriously? Maybe you should look into a different hobby. Yes, I said hobby :p
Click to expand...

Settle down there bud, I'm not even ON your lawn :LOL:

But seriously, I'm not choosing a powder based on this thread. I'm collecting data on clean burning powders because before my current supply runs out in ~18 months, I intend to switch to something cleaner. I'll probably take a lb of the top 5 for testing before I buy a large quantity of the one/s that suit my needs.
I don't have a problem cleaning my firearms, but being able to fully disassemble them for cleaning is a luxury of the current usage case, and may not always be possible. Besides, I have a lot less spare time than I used to, so anything that saves time is a plus in my book. I just wish I had kept notes on relative cleanliness when I did my last round of tests. It would save me from having to retry options like tightgroup and power pistol (at least I still have the load data to start from).

Speak for yourself regarding hobbies, to me it's a skill. If I had spent half the time I have invested into the shooting sports on cold chiseling chunks of metal, I'd be a master engraver by now (instead of the hobbyist I am currently). ;)
 
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jr81452 said:
Thanks for all the responses thus far. A couple of remarks addressed:
I tend to load warm-hot (eg. 40s&w: 180gr jhp- aa#5 6.8gr - 34.2k psi), as I mostly try to replicate factory carry/defense loads with my training ammo. Not really sure why so many of you seem to like low power loads.

I don't seem to have any load data for V-V N320. Is it relatively new? My primary load books are lyman 48th edition, hornady 7th, and lee 2nd, so I'm probably a little out of date.
Click to expand...

-Because shooting fundamentals are far more important than what power level your ammo is at
-Brass and gun parts last longer
-They're more enjoyable to shoot, less toll on hands/wrist/etc
-Less cost over time

IMO, shooting defense load levels doesn't really pay off that much in the end, IF ANY....but it does suck more when you shoot them.

I also refer to a lot of .38spl in my posts. I shoot Cowboy Action, so you can't shoot hotter rounds. Theres a 1000fps cap on all pistol loads.

EDIT: I can understand the need/want to make loads equal to factory range ammo....but making them equivalent to hot defense loads doesn't really make any sense to me in the long run.
 
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Gustav7 said:
-Because shooting fundamentals are far more important than what power level your ammo is at

EDIT: I can understand the need/want to make loads equal to factory range ammo....but making them equivalent to hot defense loads doesn't really make any sense to me in the long run.
Click to expand...

While I can see and agree with the logic of your other points, these two are outliers.
The first would be logical for a new shooter, but once you have the fundamentals down you should be ramping up power until you meet defense load ratings. For one, it will force you to improve your form and grip. For another, you will be better prepared in a defense scenario. Particularly if you CC, you should be training with your carry load (or equal) at least 4 times a year. Combat/defense is going to introduce enough stress related accuracy issues, why add unfamiliarity with your loads recoil and handling characteristics to the mix?
Anecdotally, I used to have a member of my shooting group who would run ~750fps loads in his 40s&w because it was "more accurate" and easier on his hands. He had decent split times and held 6" @ 25yrd without issue. One day we loaded him up with gold dot and his times doubled with 14" groups. After another member and I took turns with his pistol to prove that the ammo could hold 5" with .5 splits, he finally conceded that he couldn't control the pistol with the higher recoil (which was obvious to those of us watching his muzzle flip). Training with low power loads had allowed him to become lax with his grip. 3 months of shooting defense loads had him back in the swing, and his groups with the low power ammo improved to 4.75" @ 25y.

That said, I'm not an expert and I don't shoot competition (anymore). I just always took the "you fight the way you train" adage to heart. I might have a different view if I were comfortable legally with loading my CC with my own reloads. Then I guess the two experiences would be equal regardless of the actual load power. For the same reasons, I hit the heavy bag for 5 mins a day before I wrap my hands for the rest of the workout.
 
jr81452 said:
Settle down there bud, I'm not even ON your lawn :LOL:

But seriously, I'm not choosing a powder based on this thread. I'm collecting data on clean burning powders because before my current supply runs out in ~18 months, I intend to switch to something cleaner. I'll probably take a lb of the top 5 for testing before I buy a large quantity of the one/s that suit my needs.
I don't have a problem cleaning my firearms, but being able to fully disassemble them for cleaning is a luxury of the current usage case, and may not always be possible. Besides, I have a lot less spare time than I used to, so anything that saves time is a plus in my book. I just wish I had kept notes on relative cleanliness when I did my last round of tests. It would save me from having to retry options like tightgroup and power pistol (at least I still have the load data to start from).

Speak for yourself regarding hobbies, to me it's a skill. If I had spent half the time I have invested into the shooting sports on cold chiseling chunks of metal, I'd be a master engraver by now (instead of the hobbyist I am currently). ;)
Click to expand...


I said I was in a mood.....

anyways, some of it has to do with the powder and some of it has to do with the load. I use bullseye for .45 and have loads for 9, 40, and .38 and it’s a fairly clean burning powder but I don’t like beating up my 1911s so I load them soft which results in a dirtier gun but full house loaded run clean
 
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jr81452 said:
While I can see and agree with the logic of your other points, these two are outliers.
The first would be logical for a new shooter, but once you have the fundamentals down you should be ramping up power until you meet defense load ratings. For one, it will force you to improve your form and grip. For another, you will be better prepared in a defense scenario. Particularly if you CC, you should be training with your carry load (or equal) at least 4 times a year. Combat/defense is going to introduce enough stress related accuracy issues, why add unfamiliarity with your loads recoil and handling characteristics to the mix?
Anecdotally, I used to have a member of my shooting group who would run ~750fps loads in his 40s&w because it was "more accurate" and easier on his hands. He had decent split times and held 6" @ 25yrd without issue. One day we loaded him up with gold dot and his times doubled with 14" groups. After another member and I took turns with his pistol to prove that the ammo could hold 5" with .5 splits, he finally conceded that he couldn't control the pistol with the higher recoil (which was obvious to those of us watching his muzzle flip). Training with low power loads had allowed him to become lax with his grip. 3 months of shooting defense loads had him back in the swing, and his groups with the low power ammo improved to 4.75" @ 25y.

That said, I'm not an expert and I don't shoot competition (anymore). I just always took the "you fight the way you train" adage to heart. I might have a different view if I were comfortable legally with loading my CC with my own reloads. Then I guess the two experiences would be equal regardless of the actual load power. For the same reasons, I hit the heavy bag for 5 mins a day before I wrap my hands for the rest of the workout.
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying and I understand the logic. It sounded like you train with full house loads 100% of the time... which I'm assuming you don't?

I didn't mean to make it sound like I ONLY train with low power loads. I mainly train with moderate, sometimes just under moderate loads in auto pistols, but I do have an ammo can of full power 124gr loads with Unique I shoot on occasion. I also shoot my actual defense ammo once a year for maybe a mags worth of ammo to cycle it through and train with it.
 
jr81452 said:
Not terribly concerned with how clean the cases are because I wet polish. My primary irritation with AA# X powders is the residue buildup in the action and mags/mag well. I'm tired of having to fully strip and clean the pistols and mags every 1500 rounds to ensure reliability. I would like to double it to 3k without a malfunction if possible. I've been able to achieve that goal with certain factory target loads.
Click to expand...

I only mentioned it as for me it seems to translate directly to how dirty (or not) the gun itself gets.
 
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Gustav7 said:
I get what you're saying and I understand the logic. It sounded like you train with full house loads 100% of the time... which I'm assuming you don't?
Click to expand...
No, I only train about 25% of the time. When I go to the range to practice I usually use commercial target ammo. When I go out to my own land to train I use full power loads to run the courses. I reload only full power loads, because (with time considered) there isn't a significant savings in reloading target ammo vs buying it. But buying 10k+ defense/match grade loads is expensive AF. I do cast and load Pb boolits for the old guns. Two of the lever guns and the FN1910 never liked fmj loads.
 
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