Not sure where to post this so I'm going to post it here in Bolt Action Rifles as well as I'm going to make a post on Accurate Shooter Forum as well.
This will probably start an argument but don't know what else to do other than to spell this out in black and white.
This has been kicked to death I don't know how many times but not just me but by everyone. I've posted pictures of what happens and the damage that can be done to barrels from using abrasives, using abrasives in conjunction with a brush and fire lapping barrels.
Everyone... when it comes to using an abrasive type cleaner you have to be very careful in how you use it. Improper use or over using an abrasive type cleaner either in a paste form or a liquid form it can and will cause problems. When and where and in what time frame we cannot put exact numbers on it. Too much is beyond our control being the barrel maker. We have ZERO control over what and how people clean barrels with.
Same goes with someone using a fire lapping kit, Tubbs Final Finish or someone doing they're own finish lapping to a barrel. Again we have no control over what is being done.
You cannot expect a barrel maker to warranty and replace a barrel at n/c when something is being done to it that is totally beyond our control.
Latest example with pictures attached. Customer has less than 400 rounds on a 6mm barrel. Caliber is 6XC. He used Iosso bore paste along with Tubbs Final Finish to fire lap the barrel. How many times etc... we don't know exactly.
The first approx. 2" of rifling in front of the chamber... the lands are completely gone. Basically polished smooth. From the breech face of the chamber until you get about 6" up from the breech do you start to see lands. At this junction point the bore is about .2385". That's a full .0015" of material that has been taken out of the bore.
Tubbs years ago asked me to endorse his Final Finish kits. I said... only if he was going to cover the warranty on the barrels. The conversation ended right then and there on the phone.
The rest of the bore when you look at the lands there is no crispness to it. The edges are smoothed/rounded over. All points to cleaning damage. Sorry for the grainy pics.
The customer wasn't happy when we said we will not warranty it. He said he's done it to four other barrels with no issues. Again guys... we have no control over how much is done and how often and how aggressive. Cleaning is simply beyond our control in what a person does to the barrel. Maybe the company who makes the cleaner product should cover the warranty to the barrel/customers rifle. I'd like to see that happen?
I tried to come to a happy medium with customer and said that we would help with something but not eating the whole thing. it was a no go.
It's on our website under cleaning etc.... as well.
No fire lapping kits should be used in our barrels. This can damage the barrel and we will not warranty a barrel in any way.
Your barrel should never be lapped by anyone else other than us. Any individual or gunsmith lapping our barrels also voids the warranty.
If you want to play with or use a Fire Lapping kit.... I only say in a factory type barrel with a really rough bore and if your going to use it in ours... use it towards the end of the life of the barrel. Then I feel you most likely have nothing to lose but there is no reason to use it on our barrel when it's new etc... if you think you have a problem with our barrel.... I'd prefer you call us and ask us for help before something gets done to it that cannot be undone.
First picture is at the case mouth.
Next pic is 6" from the breech face. So approx. 2" to 3" from the case mouth and you can start to see the land.
Approx. 8" from the breech end
Here is several inches in from the muzzle. Looks nice but again the crispness to the lands isn't there.
This will probably start an argument but don't know what else to do other than to spell this out in black and white.
This has been kicked to death I don't know how many times but not just me but by everyone. I've posted pictures of what happens and the damage that can be done to barrels from using abrasives, using abrasives in conjunction with a brush and fire lapping barrels.
Everyone... when it comes to using an abrasive type cleaner you have to be very careful in how you use it. Improper use or over using an abrasive type cleaner either in a paste form or a liquid form it can and will cause problems. When and where and in what time frame we cannot put exact numbers on it. Too much is beyond our control being the barrel maker. We have ZERO control over what and how people clean barrels with.
Same goes with someone using a fire lapping kit, Tubbs Final Finish or someone doing they're own finish lapping to a barrel. Again we have no control over what is being done.
You cannot expect a barrel maker to warranty and replace a barrel at n/c when something is being done to it that is totally beyond our control.
Latest example with pictures attached. Customer has less than 400 rounds on a 6mm barrel. Caliber is 6XC. He used Iosso bore paste along with Tubbs Final Finish to fire lap the barrel. How many times etc... we don't know exactly.
The first approx. 2" of rifling in front of the chamber... the lands are completely gone. Basically polished smooth. From the breech face of the chamber until you get about 6" up from the breech do you start to see lands. At this junction point the bore is about .2385". That's a full .0015" of material that has been taken out of the bore.
Tubbs years ago asked me to endorse his Final Finish kits. I said... only if he was going to cover the warranty on the barrels. The conversation ended right then and there on the phone.
The rest of the bore when you look at the lands there is no crispness to it. The edges are smoothed/rounded over. All points to cleaning damage. Sorry for the grainy pics.
The customer wasn't happy when we said we will not warranty it. He said he's done it to four other barrels with no issues. Again guys... we have no control over how much is done and how often and how aggressive. Cleaning is simply beyond our control in what a person does to the barrel. Maybe the company who makes the cleaner product should cover the warranty to the barrel/customers rifle. I'd like to see that happen?
I tried to come to a happy medium with customer and said that we would help with something but not eating the whole thing. it was a no go.
It's on our website under cleaning etc.... as well.
No fire lapping kits should be used in our barrels. This can damage the barrel and we will not warranty a barrel in any way.
Your barrel should never be lapped by anyone else other than us. Any individual or gunsmith lapping our barrels also voids the warranty.
If you want to play with or use a Fire Lapping kit.... I only say in a factory type barrel with a really rough bore and if your going to use it in ours... use it towards the end of the life of the barrel. Then I feel you most likely have nothing to lose but there is no reason to use it on our barrel when it's new etc... if you think you have a problem with our barrel.... I'd prefer you call us and ask us for help before something gets done to it that cannot be undone.
First picture is at the case mouth.
Next pic is 6" from the breech face. So approx. 2" to 3" from the case mouth and you can start to see the land.
Approx. 8" from the breech end
Here is several inches in from the muzzle. Looks nice but again the crispness to the lands isn't there.
