Gunsmithing Cleaning rods marks
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Re: Cleaning rods marks
Skip both aluminum and brass and jump right to Dewey coated rods, the coating is soft enough that if it does flex and touch the bore, it wont hurt it.
EDIT: to answer your question, the reason are aluminum and brass rods are a bad idea is when they touch the bore, you get filed pieces of alum/brass chips left in your bore, because as you said the barrel is harder than the rod. And if there was a single piece of shaving left in your bore or worse your chamber when you fire a round through it, it could and probably would impregnate that shaving onto the rifling or chamber and cause all kinds of accuracy hell. And good luck cleaning it out.
Stick with Dewey coated rods.
Skip both aluminum and brass and jump right to Dewey coated rods, the coating is soft enough that if it does flex and touch the bore, it wont hurt it.
EDIT: to answer your question, the reason are aluminum and brass rods are a bad idea is when they touch the bore, you get filed pieces of alum/brass chips left in your bore, because as you said the barrel is harder than the rod. And if there was a single piece of shaving left in your bore or worse your chamber when you fire a round through it, it could and probably would impregnate that shaving onto the rifling or chamber and cause all kinds of accuracy hell. And good luck cleaning it out.
Stick with Dewey coated rods.
Re: Cleaning rods marks
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Skip both aluminum and brass and jump right to Dewey coated rods, the coating is soft enough that if it does flex and touch the bore, it wont hurt it.
EDIT: to answer your question, the reason are aluminum and brass rods are a bad idea is when they touch the bore, you get filed pieces of alum/brass chips left in your bore, because as you said the barrel is harder than the rod. And if there was a single piece of shaving left in your bore or worse your chamber when you fire a round through it, it could and probably would impregnate that shaving onto the rifling or chamber and cause all kinds of accuracy hell. And good luck cleaning it out.
Stick with Dewey coated rods. </div></div>
actually the big problem with aluminum rods is the coating of aluminum oxide that forms on the surface of aluminum. If aluminum oxide sounds familiar... it should its actually one of the hardest substances know to man so hard its what is used to make sandpaper and other abrasive products. So just picture a rod of sandpaper in your rifle bore next time you reach for a cheap aluminum rod.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Skip both aluminum and brass and jump right to Dewey coated rods, the coating is soft enough that if it does flex and touch the bore, it wont hurt it.
EDIT: to answer your question, the reason are aluminum and brass rods are a bad idea is when they touch the bore, you get filed pieces of alum/brass chips left in your bore, because as you said the barrel is harder than the rod. And if there was a single piece of shaving left in your bore or worse your chamber when you fire a round through it, it could and probably would impregnate that shaving onto the rifling or chamber and cause all kinds of accuracy hell. And good luck cleaning it out.
Stick with Dewey coated rods. </div></div>
actually the big problem with aluminum rods is the coating of aluminum oxide that forms on the surface of aluminum. If aluminum oxide sounds familiar... it should its actually one of the hardest substances know to man so hard its what is used to make sandpaper and other abrasive products. So just picture a rod of sandpaper in your rifle bore next time you reach for a cheap aluminum rod.
Re: Cleaning rods marks
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brokefromguns</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Skip both aluminum and brass and jump right to Dewey coated rods, the coating is soft enough that if it does flex and touch the bore, it wont hurt it.
EDIT: to answer your question, the reason are aluminum and brass rods are a bad idea is when they touch the bore, you get filed pieces of alum/brass chips left in your bore, because as you said the barrel is harder than the rod. And if there was a single piece of shaving left in your bore or worse your chamber when you fire a round through it, it could and probably would impregnate that shaving onto the rifling or chamber and cause all kinds of accuracy hell. And good luck cleaning it out.
Stick with Dewey coated rods. </div></div>
actually the big problem with aluminum rods is the coating of aluminum oxide that forms on the surface of aluminum. If aluminum oxide sounds familiar... it should its actually one of the hardest substances know to man so hard its what is used to make sandpaper and other abrasive products. So just picture a rod of sandpaper in your rifle bore next time you reach for a cheap aluminum rod.</div></div>
I never thought about the coating that forms on the outside of the rod. Thanks for the input fellas.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brokefromguns</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Skip both aluminum and brass and jump right to Dewey coated rods, the coating is soft enough that if it does flex and touch the bore, it wont hurt it.
EDIT: to answer your question, the reason are aluminum and brass rods are a bad idea is when they touch the bore, you get filed pieces of alum/brass chips left in your bore, because as you said the barrel is harder than the rod. And if there was a single piece of shaving left in your bore or worse your chamber when you fire a round through it, it could and probably would impregnate that shaving onto the rifling or chamber and cause all kinds of accuracy hell. And good luck cleaning it out.
Stick with Dewey coated rods. </div></div>
actually the big problem with aluminum rods is the coating of aluminum oxide that forms on the surface of aluminum. If aluminum oxide sounds familiar... it should its actually one of the hardest substances know to man so hard its what is used to make sandpaper and other abrasive products. So just picture a rod of sandpaper in your rifle bore next time you reach for a cheap aluminum rod.</div></div>
I never thought about the coating that forms on the outside of the rod. Thanks for the input fellas.
Re: Cleaning rods marks
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Skip both aluminum and brass and jump right to Dewey coated rods, the coating is soft enough that if it does flex and touch the bore, it wont hurt it.
... Stick with Dewey coated rods. </div></div>
I cannot agree more.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Skip both aluminum and brass and jump right to Dewey coated rods, the coating is soft enough that if it does flex and touch the bore, it wont hurt it.
... Stick with Dewey coated rods. </div></div>
I cannot agree more.
Re: Cleaning rods marks
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCummings</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And then there is the carbon residue that all rods pick up inside the barrel and run against the rifling, coated or not. </div></div>
There is not a damn thing you can do about that. Hell when you run a patch through your bore, what do you think is going on? Yup, its pushing all of that carbon residue you mentioned through the bore. What do you think happens when you fire rounds down a bore, same thing! the bullet is pushing more of than carbon down the bore. All we can do is minimize the damage by using quality cleaning equipment.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCummings</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And then there is the carbon residue that all rods pick up inside the barrel and run against the rifling, coated or not. </div></div>
There is not a damn thing you can do about that. Hell when you run a patch through your bore, what do you think is going on? Yup, its pushing all of that carbon residue you mentioned through the bore. What do you think happens when you fire rounds down a bore, same thing! the bullet is pushing more of than carbon down the bore. All we can do is minimize the damage by using quality cleaning equipment.
Re: Cleaning rods marks
+1
I have a mixture of Dewey and Proshot rods and I prefer the Proshot.
+1
I have a mixture of Dewey and Proshot rods and I prefer the Proshot.
Re: Cleaning rods marks
Then there's the ever-present disagreement between the coated and uncoated stainless or toolsteel rods, as well.
Then there's the ever-present disagreement between the coated and uncoated stainless or toolsteel rods, as well.
Re: Cleaning rods marks
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bsp212</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1
I have a mixture of Dewey and Proshot rods and I prefer the Proshot. </div></div>
Same here!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bsp212</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1
I have a mixture of Dewey and Proshot rods and I prefer the Proshot. </div></div>
Same here!
Re: Cleaning rods marks
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Then there's the ever-present disagreement between the coated and uncoated stainless or toolsteel rods, as well.
</div></div>
Whats the logic in chosing uncoated over coated? I dont think ive ever heard someone say they prefer bare metal in there bore.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Then there's the ever-present disagreement between the coated and uncoated stainless or toolsteel rods, as well.
</div></div>
Whats the logic in chosing uncoated over coated? I dont think ive ever heard someone say they prefer bare metal in there bore.
Re: Cleaning rods marks
A long time ago, the logic was to use the hardest material you could get (stainless) because softer materials would get more debris embedded and act like a lapping rod. Harder material was supposed to stay cleaner so even if you do touch the bore, it was just polished metal and not grit.
I don't know if the theory has been disproved, or if the coated rods obsoleted the advantage of stainless. In any case, the modern concensus is to use a quality coated rod.
A long time ago, the logic was to use the hardest material you could get (stainless) because softer materials would get more debris embedded and act like a lapping rod. Harder material was supposed to stay cleaner so even if you do touch the bore, it was just polished metal and not grit.
I don't know if the theory has been disproved, or if the coated rods obsoleted the advantage of stainless. In any case, the modern concensus is to use a quality coated rod.
Re: Cleaning rods marks
When i first got my rifle, i immediately went looking locally for a coated rod. we have like 5 shops within 15 minutes and surprisingly only one had a coated rod. i went looking for dewey since its so widely recommended, but all i found was a proshot model, and i bought it. needed it that day because i was gonna zero the rifle that day, and wasnt about to leave it dirty after the first rounds downrange, what with it being a brand new toy and all.
so, i walked in, found the proshot, and bought it. could not be happier.
Paulus
When i first got my rifle, i immediately went looking locally for a coated rod. we have like 5 shops within 15 minutes and surprisingly only one had a coated rod. i went looking for dewey since its so widely recommended, but all i found was a proshot model, and i bought it. needed it that day because i was gonna zero the rifle that day, and wasnt about to leave it dirty after the first rounds downrange, what with it being a brand new toy and all.
so, i walked in, found the proshot, and bought it. could not be happier.
Paulus
Re: Cleaning rods marks
Soft rods are bad for long term use as they get embedded with abrasive particles. That's the "real" reason they are bad.
Lay them down on your bench, drop them, windy day and it's in the surface, wearing your bore from that point on.
This would include coated rods
Decent non coated rods, wiped in use don't do this.
There is no doubt this goes on. correct cleaning with a bore guide, right sized brushes and patches will not cause noticable damage to a bore over it's life span.
If you want to know about bore care and tools check out the benchresters. While a FEW use decent coated rods most use plain ss rods.
I would use coated rods only in some applications and understand they do not have the life span of plain ones. They are no better. What IS bad is CF rods, bore snakes and similar. Better to use a decent coated rod, throw it out every few years at most than use those
bore guides are a MUST have....
Soft rods are bad for long term use as they get embedded with abrasive particles. That's the "real" reason they are bad.
Lay them down on your bench, drop them, windy day and it's in the surface, wearing your bore from that point on.
This would include coated rods
Decent non coated rods, wiped in use don't do this.
There is no doubt this goes on. correct cleaning with a bore guide, right sized brushes and patches will not cause noticable damage to a bore over it's life span.
If you want to know about bore care and tools check out the benchresters. While a FEW use decent coated rods most use plain ss rods.
I would use coated rods only in some applications and understand they do not have the life span of plain ones. They are no better. What IS bad is CF rods, bore snakes and similar. Better to use a decent coated rod, throw it out every few years at most than use those
bore guides are a MUST have....
Re: Cleaning rods marks
I wipe my Dewey rod each time I make a pass throug the bore to get the crud off of it so I dont push it back through the bore dirty. But keep this in mind when talking about pushing carbon desidue through your bore with a coated rod. What do you think is happening when you push a patch through a dirty bore? you are pushing that same carbon residue through it, so saying a coated rod is bad is kinda funny because you push the same carbon residue through your bore each time you push a patch through it and also each time you shoot it.
Stop worrying and use a Dewey rod.
I wipe my Dewey rod each time I make a pass throug the bore to get the crud off of it so I dont push it back through the bore dirty. But keep this in mind when talking about pushing carbon desidue through your bore with a coated rod. What do you think is happening when you push a patch through a dirty bore? you are pushing that same carbon residue through it, so saying a coated rod is bad is kinda funny because you push the same carbon residue through your bore each time you push a patch through it and also each time you shoot it.
Stop worrying and use a Dewey rod.
Re: Cleaning rods marks
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wipe my Dewey rod each time I make a pass throug the bore to get the crud off of it so I dont push it back through the bore dirty. But keep this in mind when talking about pushing carbon desidue through your bore with a coated rod. What do you think is happening when you push a patch through a dirty bore? you are pushing that same carbon residue through it, so saying a coated rod is bad is kinda funny because you push the same carbon residue through your bore each time you push a patch through it and also each time you shoot it.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Not funny at all. Pressure wave in front of the projectile pushes a lot of the crap out, the rest acts like a lubricant, some gets pushed in front, some gets ridden on. When you are cleaning you remove the "protective" fouling and go back to clean metal. Patches are "soft", push, absorb and give. It's not a surface which is drawn through over and over. It's not a hard surface like the coating on rods.
It's not just carbon though. We are talking glass and all sorts of things.
What I said was accurate. Having seen the differences with a microscope, having spent time looking for factual "proof" and finding it, having run my own tests and finding what I found is fully supported by others who have done the same means I am able to be SURE of what I am saying. Coated rods offer nothing in most applications and DO embed with abrasives. IF you use a quality rod, wipe every time, don't drop it, never put it down on a dirty surface and throw it away every so often then it's probably not going to make a difference you will notice. OTOH, if you have a really accurate barrel chambered for a low intensity cartridge then it's quite possible you will.</span>
Stop worrying and use a Dewey rod. </div></div>
Who is worrying? My post was factual. I learn anything I can, even if it means my understanding about a subject was incorrect or not fully thought out. I'm sure you do the same
Wiping/bore guides are a MUST. I have coated rods for some applications. Most of my rods are quality SS.
If people feel better using a coated rod then that's up to them, does not hurt to understand what's going on though
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wipe my Dewey rod each time I make a pass throug the bore to get the crud off of it so I dont push it back through the bore dirty. But keep this in mind when talking about pushing carbon desidue through your bore with a coated rod. What do you think is happening when you push a patch through a dirty bore? you are pushing that same carbon residue through it, so saying a coated rod is bad is kinda funny because you push the same carbon residue through your bore each time you push a patch through it and also each time you shoot it.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Not funny at all. Pressure wave in front of the projectile pushes a lot of the crap out, the rest acts like a lubricant, some gets pushed in front, some gets ridden on. When you are cleaning you remove the "protective" fouling and go back to clean metal. Patches are "soft", push, absorb and give. It's not a surface which is drawn through over and over. It's not a hard surface like the coating on rods.
It's not just carbon though. We are talking glass and all sorts of things.
What I said was accurate. Having seen the differences with a microscope, having spent time looking for factual "proof" and finding it, having run my own tests and finding what I found is fully supported by others who have done the same means I am able to be SURE of what I am saying. Coated rods offer nothing in most applications and DO embed with abrasives. IF you use a quality rod, wipe every time, don't drop it, never put it down on a dirty surface and throw it away every so often then it's probably not going to make a difference you will notice. OTOH, if you have a really accurate barrel chambered for a low intensity cartridge then it's quite possible you will.</span>
Stop worrying and use a Dewey rod. </div></div>
Who is worrying? My post was factual. I learn anything I can, even if it means my understanding about a subject was incorrect or not fully thought out. I'm sure you do the same
Wiping/bore guides are a MUST. I have coated rods for some applications. Most of my rods are quality SS.
If people feel better using a coated rod then that's up to them, does not hurt to understand what's going on though
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