I just loaded up and shot my 5th firing using 6.5cm alpha munitions ocd LRP brass with one charge weight pretty stout. I didn't puncture a primer or have any signs of pressure even though a couple shots were at around 2900 and those shots i got a clicker which ive never had before. I anneal every firing and normally dont fire really stout loads. Usually around the 2750 mark. This was win staBall 6.5 and I went up a bit too highto start but what im wondering is with those pieces of hrass that were clickers is that round now a clicker from now on or is that just a result of such stout load? I didn't have a heavy bolt lift or anything.
Clickers
- Thread starter JRBullock1987
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- 6.5cm alpha brass clickers
I have had clickers in a few cartridges from running stout loads. In my 300PRC Imp they didn’t start until the 5th firing. Sometimes it can be from a slightly oversized die. But if you’re not getting them with normal loads it’s probably from running stout loads. Once you run the brass that hot the clickers usually don’t go away with sizing. You can measure the base of the case just above the extractor groove and compare it to brass that was fired with mild loads and I’m sure it will be .001-.002 thou larger.
What is the base dia of your brass right above the extractor groove and then at the .200” mark? If your brass is too big for your chamber then you will get clickers that can’t be prevented by sizing. If your chamber is big enough then you might be able to get rid of the clickers with a small base die.
I'm cleaning the ones I just shot right now and will measure and get back to you. It was 17 total shots and I believe it was only 2 pieces of brass I got the clickers with. Like I said in my initial question...usually i only hit the 2750s and only hits the 2800s a couple times with different loads so I dont normally shoot hot loads. I find when I get up into the 2800s my loads most of the time start to open up but it was 140gr eld match bullets and staBall6.5 which is a first time for this powder. I didnt want to pull the bullets and since I wasn't getting any significant pressure signs besides a bit of primer flattening I shot all 5 rounds at that top charge weight. And 2 of them had clickers happen. So just measure slightly above the the extractor groove.... I'll measure them compared to other foreformed brass I haven't resized yet that weren't hot loads and let you know here in a bit. I use rhe sac sizing die which does size the base a bit more than some other dies and have always used that die with my 6.5cm brass. So will that eliminate the clickers? Or do i need to find those cases that measure more and toss them?
Respond to what I wrote to 918v and let me know what you think? I didn't want to retype everything but there's? S in there that you might be able to answer and expound upon. Thanks
Watch the "does your die fit your chamber" and the "clickers" video, they sort of go hand in hand.
www.wheeleraccuracy.com
I call "clickers" when the base of the brass isnt getting sized enough to fit the chamber properly and is beyond the spring back threshold so its always jammed. Primarily due to a mismatch between sizing die and chamber, doesnt take pressure to induce clickers, its more material.
It sounds like you dont have "clickers" so much as you have just a simple case of over pressure rounds swelled up in the chamber. Yes the base swelled but also everywhere else contributing too. Same symptoms, just a slightly different cause. One will be present on subsequent firings and one wont.
So when you size, make sure that the .2 base line on your brass is going down at least half a thou from the sized dimension. If it doesnt at all you may have a case of the clickers going forward. A different die that has a smaller base dimension by a thou or a "small base" die thats a couple thou smaller and maybe that puts them back small enough to cure the clickers. Only one way to find out and thats... to find out.
Videos | wheeleraccuracy
www.wheeleraccuracy.com
I call "clickers" when the base of the brass isnt getting sized enough to fit the chamber properly and is beyond the spring back threshold so its always jammed. Primarily due to a mismatch between sizing die and chamber, doesnt take pressure to induce clickers, its more material.
It sounds like you dont have "clickers" so much as you have just a simple case of over pressure rounds swelled up in the chamber. Yes the base swelled but also everywhere else contributing too. Same symptoms, just a slightly different cause. One will be present on subsequent firings and one wont.
So when you size, make sure that the .2 base line on your brass is going down at least half a thou from the sized dimension. If it doesnt at all you may have a case of the clickers going forward. A different die that has a smaller base dimension by a thou or a "small base" die thats a couple thou smaller and maybe that puts them back small enough to cure the clickers. Only one way to find out and thats... to find out.
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Resize the cases using your normal process and see if they shoot fine, or not. The Cortina mandrel dies will size the case base down about .001 smaller than the normal sizing die and is kind of built to take care of the clicker issue. But spending that money to save 2 cases isn't very cost effective. However, if you are looking for a mandrel die now you have an excuse to buy one.
Cool appreciate it broWatch the "does your die fit your chamber" and the "clickers" video, they sort of go hand in hand.
Videos | wheeleraccuracy
I call "clickers" when the base of the brass isnt getting sized enough to fit the chamber properly and is beyond the spring back threshold so its always jammed. Primarily due to a mismatch between sizing die and chamber, doesnt take pressure to induce clickers, its more material.
It sounds like you dont have "clickers" so much as you have just a simple case of over pressure rounds swelled up in the chamber. Yes the base swelled but also everywhere else contributing too. Same symptoms, just a slightly different cause. One will be present on subsequent firings and one wont.
So when you size, make sure that the .2 base line on your brass is going down at least half a thou from the sized dimension. If it doesnt at all you may have a case of the clickers going forward. A different die that has a smaller base dimension by a thou or a "small base" die thats a couple thou smaller and maybe that puts them back small enough to cure the clickers. Only one way to find out and thats... to find out.
Ok thanks ill process the brass amd keep track of what two were the clickers amd see what happens.
It depends on everything else. If your brass has a big base and your chamber is small in diameter then you might not have enough clearance for the brass to do its thing and spring back enough to extract easily. For example, say your chamber is .470” in diameter and your brass is .469” in diameter, that is not enough clearance because the case head diameter will prevent the sizing die from sizing the case walls at the .200” mark down far enough to overcome the springback from sizing. So you’ll end up with a sized case with a .4695” diameter and clickers.
But if your brass is .467” then a small base die has more room to work with and you might end up with a sized case measuring .468” and no issues whatsoever.
So it depends on your chamber diameter, your case dimensions, and your sizing die interval dimensions. This claim that the die sizes brass .001” more than a standard sizer die doesn’t mean anything. There is too much variance between different brands of dies and different brands of brass for that to be taken as gospel.
If you’re not getting clickers with your normal loads at 2750-2800 then it’s most likely just the higher pressure loads causing it. It doesn’t always happen to every piece like in your current scenario. I would measure the bases before and after sizing. Then compare the base measurements to the brass you usually run at 2750-2800. If you’re getting clickers on brass with your normal loads also then it might possibly be a die issue.
Saami min spec at 200 line on 65cm is 0.4714, measure your fired and sized brass with a quality micrometer, NOT your caliper. The alpha brass is tough in the web, and I'd be surprised if it's over. 0.4705 fired, you may have a small chamber. I know I ran into clickers with 65 and 25cm using redding type S FL bushing dies year back they were sloppy loose and didn't size the lower half the case hardly at all. I switched to RCBS matchmaster FL bushing dies, and was shocked how much more they sized the case, from 0.471 to 0.4695.
Thanks. Yeah i use the sac siz8ng die and they've always made my brass fit my chamber just fine. It was only with really high pressure i experienced a clicker.
I just finished sizing and prepping my brass measured all the brass and my sac die sized my brass at the 200 line to 0.4695 so it looks like like ill be ok
. Thanks for the info
Good deal. If you're still getting clickers then the chamber is small, as long you're not running crazy psi.I just finished sizing and prepping my brass measured all the brass and my sac die sized my brass at the 200 line to 0.4695 so it looks like like ill be ok
I usually try and stay in the 2750fps-2800fps area. From my testing once I get into the 2830s and up is where my groups really start to open up so I try and stay below that
you're only concerned about resizing the base with the 45 die ... you still have to do a full resize with your CM die
If his sac die is sizing to 0.4695, I don't think a small base die will get that tough brass much smaller. I have a Cortina small base mandrel die, and it won't size much smaller than that. I'm not familiar with the Lee FCD die tho.
I mentioned Lee FCD earlier out of memory, but that's not really what I had in mind ... Lee also makes a Buldge Buster attachment that can be screwed into the body of FCD and that focuses only on the base of the cartridge (a passthrough design for the 45 ACP that wouldn't touch the taper or shoulder). The dimensions are slightly larger for the 45 ACP, but if the 308 case was bulged badly it could tame it to be run through a normal or smaller base die afterwards.
What I was really thinking about was w 45 ACP carbide sizing die that had an open top that would allow a .308 case to pass through without touching shoulder or taper but fully size down the case web (albeit, slightly larger than the actual 308 dims).
Most of what I was thinking about was probably more related to MG fired brass .... not necessarily a slight out of spec issue with a heavier bolt lift..... a Smaller base die should take care of things as previously mentioned and the Wheeler vid is likely the best understanding of the issue.
Apologies for the derailment
What I was really thinking about was w 45 ACP carbide sizing die that had an open top that would allow a .308 case to pass through without touching shoulder or taper but fully size down the case web (albeit, slightly larger than the actual 308 dims).
Most of what I was thinking about was probably more related to MG fired brass .... not necessarily a slight out of spec issue with a heavier bolt lift..... a Smaller base die should take care of things as previously mentioned and the Wheeler vid is likely the best understanding of the issue.
Apologies for the derailment
I just finished sizing and prepping my brass measured all the brass and my sac die sized my brass at the 200 line to 0.4695 so it looks like like ill be ok
But what did the brass measure before you sized it?
I had a similar problem with a 338LM with clickers running them too hot for ELR. I bought a Lee sizing die and using a carbide cutter removed the shoulder portion of the die. That prevented the shoulder area being moved back too far and made a great “small base” sizing die. Solved the problem and cost about $20 as I recall. Note again it takes a carbide cutter.
