When you dial in a barrel using the first few inches of the chamber and the throat, do you disregard any minor run-out at the muzzle end, or do you clock the run-out in a specific direction? The obvious layman's answer would be point it up, but the more I think about it, does it matter?
Gunsmithing "clocking" a barrel while chambering.
- Thread starter Ksracer
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It can matter. I usually mark TDC on the muzzle end with a sharpie after dialing in the breech end. Just move the sharpie close to the barrel while it is turning just until it makes contact. Then split the sharpie line for TDC. I'll time it to this mark when I cut for the action.
It depends on what "true" is. No bore is likely to be "perfectly" straight through the blank. They wander a bit while drilling, then the blank gets turned between centers, so each end is "true" to the blank's OD, but in the middle, the ID is not likely to be concentric with the OD.
Those are really short sections of a bore to try to indicate. Unless the sections are co-axial with each other, the answer is no, not without flexing the barrel. However, I'm not trying to dial in a section of the muzzle, so I guess I'm not even sure what you are trying to ask with the question?
Are you dialing for position or for angle? You can get a point at the muzzle and breech to be perfectly in line relative to the spindle axis if you want. That doesn't mean that the bore is spinning true with the spindle.
Imagine a slightly curved section of road. Do you point your car to the end point, or do you follow the road as it bends? That's kind of the thought process as to why most guys axially align the first several inches of the breech to the spindle bore. The idea is that you accept that the barrel has some bend in it, and you align your chamber tangent to that curve.
Regardless, we're talking about angles that are stupid small. My guess is someone could clock the bend to TDC, and the next barrel to 3 oclock, and you couldn't shoot them and tell the difference. I say that because I know some shops clock them, and some don't, and I've never heard anybody complain from the shops that don't.
Imagine a slightly curved section of road. Do you point your car to the end point, or do you follow the road as it bends? That's kind of the thought process as to why most guys axially align the first several inches of the breech to the spindle bore. The idea is that you accept that the barrel has some bend in it, and you align your chamber tangent to that curve.
Regardless, we're talking about angles that are stupid small. My guess is someone could clock the bend to TDC, and the next barrel to 3 oclock, and you couldn't shoot them and tell the difference. I say that because I know some shops clock them, and some don't, and I've never heard anybody complain from the shops that don't.
Who says once you pull you long, (relatively) flimsy barrel out of you dual spider chucks and screw it onto a receiver so all the weight is hanging from one end, everything is in the same place it was on the machine?
Up until now, I was only able to indicate a single point on each end of the barrel, so I was pointing my chamber at the end of the curve. This time, id like to try pointing my chamber into the area immediately in front of it, or follow the curve as you say.
As you said, I suspect that I may find out that the curve is so minor, I just ignore it. Idk yet.
I decided not to clock it and ignore the run-out at the muzzle. My first 5 shots on a target @400yds with my old zero and dope went into a 2" group, about 5" low.
I forgot to mention that I was re-barreling and that the old barrel was dialed in at each end.
I forgot to mention that I was re-barreling and that the old barrel was dialed in at each end.
I never will understand why someone would want to indicate an area 24 to 30 inches in front of the chamber or work area. Makes no sense. One fella told me he does it because he wants the muzzle in front of the chamber for recoil reasons. He claimed he could feel the rifle recoil off track with a few thousands muzzle runout. I thought, boy if you can feel .020 or much less, misalignment during recoil your the shit!! I dont bother to clock any of my personal barrels. Through endless testing on my home range right outside my machine shop i see no accuracy gain or loss. I do find small differences on point of impact , but that doesnt mean squat to me. A few clicks of the scope and all is well. I do clock all my customers barrels at 6 or 12. When someone pays me for a job i take no short cuts, and clocking a barrel doesnt take any extra time anyway. I mark my barrels like Gene described. I will add that for the long range guys, it is probably a good idea to keep the run out at 12 ocklock .
I read an artical one time that Gene Buckies posted. For those that dont know who Gene is, he is a short range Benchrest master. Perhaps the best there currently is, in the game. Gene doesnt clock his barrel either. Gene stated that had clocking your barrel really matter, then someone needs to tell all his hall of fame points. LOL Benchrest has always set the standards in rifle accuracy. The folks who claim its an easy sport, have simply never tried it. Until i find a better way, ill continue my practices. Lee
I read an artical one time that Gene Buckies posted. For those that dont know who Gene is, he is a short range Benchrest master. Perhaps the best there currently is, in the game. Gene doesnt clock his barrel either. Gene stated that had clocking your barrel really matter, then someone needs to tell all his hall of fame points. LOL Benchrest has always set the standards in rifle accuracy. The folks who claim its an easy sport, have simply never tried it. Until i find a better way, ill continue my practices. Lee
Whats the trick to lining up a Savage barrel ? Remington's are simple but on the Savage you would have to adjust the shank length and chamber to rotate the barrel ?
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savage barrels are no different while they are still in the lathe. Find top dead center and set the headspace with a go gauge while the barrel is still in the lathe. Do a little math and see how much farther the reamer needs to be advanced and trim the back of barrel for proper clearance. Re check your work. Simple stuff. Buying a fit all blank i guess your taking your chances. Then again does it really matter??? Lee
On an off the shelf barrel, there's no way to do so other than luck of the draw. We all know savage barrels can't shoot good because of the importance of muzzle timing/chamber indicating method....
The shop (MD Firearms) that I shoot for/am sponsored by clocks my barrels at 12 o clock when they're mounted.
I don't feel that it makes a difference accuracy wise, but my last two .260 barrels have shot a little flatter than what AB says they should, and my 300WM and 260 Remington share just about the same 100 yard zero.
It's not necessary, but it makes me feel good that my gunsmith treats his machine work as if it's an art form and just not a job.
I don't feel that it makes a difference accuracy wise, but my last two .260 barrels have shot a little flatter than what AB says they should, and my 300WM and 260 Remington share just about the same 100 yard zero.
It's not necessary, but it makes me feel good that my gunsmith treats his machine work as if it's an art form and just not a job.
Although I only have anecdotal evidence, it seems that a barrel clocked to one side or the other would not track properly, windage-wise, when shooting at multiple distances. My first F-Class experience was with a stock R700 PSS and I know that I'd have to add about 3 clicks (tenth of MIL) of right windage when going from 100 yards to 600 yards to hit center (on a wind-free range). I attributed this to misaligned scope-base screw holes, mis-clocked barrel, or some combination of both. My current F-Class rig has been aligned and re-drilled for 8-40 screws and has the barrel clocked to 12 and I see no tracking issues when going from 100 yard zero to my 600 yard dope.
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