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Cost v. Benefit of Reloading .308

Infidel45

Infidel45

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 12, 2014
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Bristol, VA
I have been reloading for a few months for 2 .308's (AAC-SD bolt gun and a DPMS LR-308). Both of these rifles, I have found, shoot best with the 175's, either 118LR or FGMM with the FGMM 168's a close second. I have also found the 130 gr SOST/OTM Barrier (MK319 Mod 0) does very well out to about 700 yds. So I bought some of the 130 gr MK319 pulls (about 500) and 600 118LR/175 SMK pulls to load for the rifles for load work-up. I already have brass (fire-formed from factory FGMM/LC LR/FC), but eventually it will need to be replaced.

I have calculated that it costs me .52 cents per round to hand load NOT including the cost of brass (yet). [.21 cents/rd for powder (@$35/lb locally incl tax), .26 cents/rd for the 175 pulls and .05 cents/rd for BR 2 primers]

When I have to buy brass, I have found once-fired LC (not LR) for .18/rd/1000 (Cleaned, swagged, de-primed) and .27/rd/500 for UNFIRED LC (not LR) which still have the LC primer in them. So if I went that route it would increase my loading cost to .70-.79/rd and reduce some of the labor involved in reloading my own brass (depriming, primer pocket deburring, cleaning, priming again, etc) for at lease ONE firing. Higher grade brass (New Lapua, New Federal, etc) would be a bit more obviously.

To the point: I can get FGMM 175's for $1.22/rd by the case/200 or $1.25/20 by the box. The 130 gr MK319 I can get for around $1.00/rd. So with all the work/time involved in reloading on a single stage press with all hand tools (except depriming/neck-sizing/bullet seating) I am saving about .45/rd on the 175's and .20/rd on the 130's. This, of course doesn't factor the most precious cost of re-loading when you work full time and have a 2.5 yr old...TIME.

I am thinking that my time is worth more than .45 per round..considering I can afford to buy ammo if need be but can't buy anymore time. I think I am going to split the difference unless/until I get into a more expensive caliber such as .260/6.5 CM, etc. I am going to hand load when I have time but not try and produce ALL my own ammo (match and practice) like I am now and buy cases of 175's for $1.22/rd to shoot in matches. Save the handloaded pulls for lots of trigger time at the range.

What is everyone else's cost/benefit ratio when your time is factored into it?
 
I can load for about half of what good factory ammo is but reloading is, for me, part of the enjoyment of shooting. However if I had the choice of reloading or spending time with my kid, I'd spend the time with my kid. Especially if I could afford factory ammo and there was plenty around. If I added even minimum wage for the time I spend prepping cases then there isn't any way I could justify reloading.
 
Only you can decide if it is worth your time.

I will say for 308 the match ammo off the shelf match ammo shoots almost as good as any hand load I have ever made for me 308 so performance is a wash. If you don't want to spend the time reloading for your 308 buy FGMM 175's and sell your once fired brass, I believe it normally goes for $.30-.35 per case so you can recoup some cost there.
 
Both of you make good points and are along my line of thinking. To clarify, I like reloading my own ammo..I find the whole process to be sorta relaxing when I HAVE the time to do it and not just "cramming" the time in to get cases prepped, primed, etc. And the payoff of seeing/hearing your own rounds hit steel right where you pointed them is rewarding. So I definitely won't quit hand loading but I will start buying the ammo to shoot in comps. Take some of the time pressure off to get volume practice AND match ammo put together, chrono'd, etc.

Thanks guys..
 
I approached it that way for some time, but now I have a different approach. The cost of factory ammunition that satisfies match accuracy requirements is simply too high these days for me to tolerate under any circumstances.

Additionally, I never really reloaded for reasons of cost; my requirements were always about load development as a means to optimal accuracy from my rifles. But the handloads have always worked out cheaper anyway.

Lately, I am experimenting with brass from Prvi-Partizan (PPU headstamp) loaded ammo in .223 and 7.62x54R. The PPU .223 Match ammo isn't really as accurate as I can get, accuracy-wise, but the brass is definitely good enough, and the components can be collet pulled and reworked for better accuracy. The PPU X54R 150gr Soft Points are very adequate for hunting, and at least as accurate or better than the alternatives. Unlike top premium ammo, the PPU .223 Match is accurate enough to be used for training my Grandchildren, yet inexpensive enough to buy in some considerable bulk. I'm retired, I shoot A LOT, and handloading is something that gets done here at my place several times a week during shooting season.

I have also streamlined my handloading process by limiting my techniques to only those that are needed to fabricate the basic ammo, and employing Dillon RL550B progressive loading with a Hornady Automated Powder Dispenser.

By doing limited steps with careful consistency, and automating the process, my time is allotted more efficiently, so the labor issue becomes as limited as possible. Naturally, these automation measures add cost, but the press was bought used about 30years ago, and the powder measure finally allows me to have metered/weighed charges available just about as quickly as I can put them to use.

Doing things this way counts heavily on careful load development. I take my time and ensure that good results are repeatable before proceeding with making ammo in any bulk.

I have no idea what my per-unit costs are, but I'm also pretty sure they are more acceptable than engaging in the process of consensual rape that passes for buying factory match grade ammo these days.

Greg
 
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yea only u can make that call but one thing that will help u is buying in bulk...buy 8 lb jugs of powder and bullets by the 1k...harder on the $ upfront but u save a decent amount in the long run...most powders are around $25/lb if u buy 8 lbs jugs...$10 per lb will add up fast if u shoot a lot
 
Considering almost every bullet will shoot well with at least two different charge weights/velocities... that is the beauty of reloading, and the cost benefit. Considering you have already done the leg work of finding factory ammo that will perform, some of the cost savings has already been spent... as others have stated, what is your time worth to you.
 
If you are retied like I am time reloading is not a factor but the cost of FGMM is. However I can see the OP's point if he can afford the FGMM and time is valuable to him.
 
I have hand loaded for 9mm and 45 for almost ten years. I started to get the characteristics I wanted, not to save money. After the initial outlay, I certainly have saved money. I don't load fast, but I can easily do 300 an hour.

This year, I started load development and loading for a 308 bolt gun. I had tried a number of the better factory loads. Privi 168 and 175, FGMM 168 and 175, M118LR, etc.

The gun loves FGMM 168 and M118LR. The rest, not so much.

I wanted more range than 168 and settled on 175 SMK with Varget.

I carefully tested charges in .5 grain increments, then .2 grain, then .1 grain. With the ogive .020 into the lands. A friend recommended backing off to the lands and then .020 jump.

The load I found, just touching the lands is so much more consistent than anything I could afford, I may never shoot factory again.

Most of the brass I used was Privi I had bought loaded and saved.

I hate brass prep. I recently bought some new Lapua brass I am looking forward to trying.

I did all of the testing and development in 100 yard indoor range. I know that helped expedite the process.
 
If and when you start reloading specialty ammo you will see a big difference as you cant get quite a bit of the ammo that you can load on your own. I don't know of anyone that sells .308 loaded with VLD bullets that are seated for your rifle, so if you want to shoot a 175 berger, your going to have to roll your own. For 168-175 standard stuff you will still save money, My match ammo in .308 or 6.5-284 all costs be about .50 in components, I figure brass is .75/1.00 each, and load it 10 times, or .075 / .10 per load and im at .60 per round. I don't want to think about how much ive got in reloading gear, that's another issue.
 
Everything seems to boil down to time vs money. I'm retired, so I've got the time. I also really like to see my home-crafted ammo shoot little groups. I probably don't save any money cause I shoot more. Crap! Maybe my wife IS right? I'm really just wasting time and money!
 
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Infidel,


Let me start by saying that if you are spending more than $0.45 per round ALL in reloading, you are doing it wrong.

1. Think Big. Buy in Bulk. Buy Online. Buying reloading components at your Local Gun Store is a waste of money especially if you are buying components in small quantities. Most places will ship you a 40lb order in one box...that means one shipping charge & one HAZMAT fee...

2. Buy 1 year to 2 year supplies at one time. I never order less than 16lbs of powder, + 10,000 primers and 2,000 bullets in an order...this let you minimize shipping fees and insulates you against the scalpers that rip off people who really need components during the mad rushes that now seem to occur every other year.

3. Look for deals online on shooting forums. There are people constantly getting out of reloading, needing money, switching out of calibers etc. For instance, i was able to buy 900 Hornady 178gr HPBT Match bullets for $24/100 shipped last month, on this site...the same bullets are $28-$33 online + shipping, and $36.99 + tax locally...it adds up.

4. Avoid Gunshows...there was a time when great deals could be had at gunshows...no mas. They are just another way for local sellers to rip off more people.

Now that we've addressed how you are supposed to accumulate your stash at the best prices, let's talk about the other aspects of reloading...but first, a word on the math.

1. 308 Winchester Brass sells online for $23/100 to $80/100. That price range is for new brass. Once-fired brass is about $25/100 on gunbroker and slightly higher with a fresh primer. You need to be honest with yourself re needs and ability. Unless you are shooting in the higher echelons of bechrest, 1,00yard prone matches, etc, you will not be able to tell the difference between the once-fired brass and Lapua brass. Your Rifle will outshoot you for a significant amount of time, so pick components that are suitable for your application, not the very "best".

2. You can get about 5-10 reloads with brass, one w primer, one w powder, one w bullet...that means your cost is as follows:
* Brass; $0.05 to $0.03 per round.
* Powder; $0.03 per round, based on buying 8lb jugs online
* Primer; $0.03 per round, based on buying for $25/1000 online
* Bullet; $0.28 per round, based on buying online without any "deals"
* All in cost is = $0.40 to $0.37 per round (That's ALL in).

I don't understand how you are reloading for double that...u must be throwing away your brass and paying through the nose for components.

The other aspect is TIME. This is the most misunderstood. NOONE's time is valuable...that is to say the time you spend reloading is cannot be monetized...you would find another way to waste your "free time" if you did not reload. Don't get me wrong, i fully understand your time is invaluable (cant put a cost against it) to you and you want to devote it to being a good husband and father, however, that time is wasted from a financial stand point.

I hate reloading. I think of it as a chore. Therefore, anything i can do to minimize the time i spend reloading is worth it to me. i have therefore taken the following actions to speed up my reloading;

1. Get a motorized trimmer...specifically, a Giraud Trimmer...it performs three steps in one (triming, chamfering inside & outside of case mouths). All other trimmers suck since they don't save you time or perform as well as a Giraud trimmer. Before i acquired a Giraud, this step took the most time.

2. Get a tumbler or US cleaner Bigger than you need. No matter what is says on the box the actual capacity is about 60% of whats indicated...if you want your brass spic & span. Otherwise, you will waste time by performing case cleaning more than once.

3. Get a progressive press. DO not let anyone tell you that you cannot load accurate ammo in a progressive press. It's a myth. You can load 5x faster than a single stage press minimizing time away from what you'd rather be doing.

4. Find a powder that's powder measure friendly. I'm guessing the myth of progressive presses being inaccurate stems from trying to load powders w long kernels. With H-4350, i get variations up to 2.5 grains when it "crunches", Varget is about 0.8gr, AR-comp, 0.2gr, 2000MR NO variation!.

There, that all i have for now. Gotta get back to work...
 
Before I started reloading, I spent lots of time (and $$$) trying various commercial .223 and .308 loads. For a given rifle, I could almost always find at least one that shot pretty well, usually the most expensive one available (LOL). IMO, the biggest difference of rolling my own has been the selection of heavier, high BC bullets.

None of the bullets I have developed loads for (Berger 168 Hybrids, 185 Juggernauts, 80.5 Fullbores, and 90 gr VLDs) are available in commercial ammunition. Although my handloads are capable of significantly smaller groups than I ever achieved with commercial ammo, are generally going much faster, and have much smaller ES/SD values, the real value of loading these high BC bullets immediately becomes obvious when shooting 600 to 1000 yd and the wind starts to blow. It is unfortunate that loads with these bullets aren't commercially available, but it's really unrealistic to expect ammunition manufacturers to be able to accommodate such a wide range of bullets, particularly those that are longer/heavier and usually require specific chamber dimensions in order to be loaded efficiently and shoot well.

In order to develop loads that consistently shoot well below half MOA and have ES values in the neighborhood of 10 fps, I have found it necessary to employ some extremely "OCD" practices that require a lot of time and attention. I do not always enjoy the amount of time it takes, particularly brass prep, because it takes away from the amount of time I could be shooting. Although I recognize and appreciate the results of my reloading efforts in competitions, that is not to say I will ever enjoy the reloading process. I am not much concerned with the relative savings in terms of handloads vs commercial ammo; however, my time is worth a lot more than I can really assign any dollar value to. I do the reloading because of the obvious benefits in competition, but I wouldn't if I didn't have to.
 
Keep another point in mind.

Many times, a hot load will be an accurate one. But so will one that's somewhat less energetic. It will also be less wearing on the bore.

Shooting a hot load to 'gain on wind dispersion' is false wisdom. Whatever load you shoot, there will be wind deflection, and a bad wind call will cost you. How much is less a factor of the load you shoot and more a factor of your wind skills. When you miss, you did it, not the round.

So adding accelerated bore wear to the equation is simply adding insult to injury. And adding the cost of that barrel replacement to the reloading costs reveals a truer truth about handloading costs; it's the shooter that needs to work harder, and not the ammunition. If you can shoot 1/2MOA at 100yd, you can ace an NRA target; but truly, how often does that happen? Before you get all OCD about those extra reloading steps, how many of them are really needed, and doesn't the effort really need to be invested in shooting the ammo, and not so much in making it?

Greg
 
Infidel45 said:
. . . I have calculated that it costs me .52 cents per round to hand load NOT including the cost of brass (yet). [.21 cents/rd for powder (@$35/lb locally incl tax), .26 cents/rd for the 175 pulls and .05 cents/rd for BR 2 primers]

When I have to buy brass, I have found once-fired LC (not LR) for .18/rd/1000 (Cleaned, swagged, de-primed) and .27/rd/500 for UNFIRED LC (not LR) which still have the LC primer in them. So if I went that route it would increase my loading cost to .70-.79/rd and reduce some of the labor involved in reloading my own brass (depriming, primer pocket deburring, cleaning, priming again, etc) for at lease ONE firing. Higher grade brass (New Lapua, New Federal, etc) would be a bit more obviously.

To the point: I can get FGMM 175's for $1.22/rd by the case/200 or $1.25/20 by the box. The 130 gr MK319 I can get for around $1.00/rd. So with all the work/time involved in reloading on a single stage press with all hand tools (except depriming/neck-sizing/bullet seating) I am saving about .45/rd on the 175's and .20/rd on the 130's. This, of course doesn't factor the most precious cost of re-loading when you work full time and have a 2.5 yr old...TIME.

I am thinking that my time is worth more than .45 per round..considering I can afford to buy ammo if need be but can't buy anymore time. I think I am going to split the difference unless/until I get into a more expensive caliber such as .260/6.5 CM, etc. I am going to hand load when I have time but not try and produce ALL my own ammo (match and practice) like I am now and buy cases of 175's for $1.22/rd to shoot in matches. Save the handloaded pulls for lots of trigger time at the range.
What is everyone else's cost/benefit ratio when your time is factored into it?
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Your math is a bit fuzzy to me, and you should be saving closer to $0.75 per MATCH reload vs factory match ammo at $1.25 each. But your point is clear. If you can afford to buy factory ammo but have no time, by all means buy the ammo.

But if you can afford the ammo, why would you shoot less-than-match-grade-ammo for practice?

OTOH, if buying match but scratching for "trigger time" ammo strikes the proper time/cost balance for you, who is anyone to differ?

Finally, I can afford to buy all factory ammo, but have the time and ENJOY reloading and load-tinkering . . . and reloading gives me more of a reason to shoot with care and precision than just having "trigger time". YMMV.
 
Aside from your ammo being custom tuned to your rifle, ask yourself this instead... "Does it take me longer to load X number of rounds than it takes to earn the money to buy the same number of rounds?" It takes me longer to make the money than the ammo and I make decent money. Match ammo doesn't always work for everyone either.
 
Aside from having a round tailored to your rifle, another thing to consider is when you buy in bulk (1 or 2 years of loading material) it is easier on the wallet than buying 2 years of Match ammo. What if your rifle changes in the middle of that batch of Match ammo? And more importantly, I went for almost 2 years after a certain election when I could not find my preferred match ammo, and it went to $37/box.
 
Tell ya what. Sounds like you can afford factory and have time to shoot or time to reload but not both if you want to spend time with your kid. Spend the time with the kid because you only have one shot at raising him right and the rest of your life to reload. Then in 10 or 15 years you've got a shooting partner that will enjoy being with his ol' man instead of being resentful of a father that had rather play with bullets than playing with him. It will pay dividends I promise.
 
+1 on everything Tx said. That assessment was right on the money. To give you an idea of my current cost here is my breakdown:

Brass - .02 per firing (0.1 per piece 5 firings)
Powder - 0.11 per firing (8 lb kegs bought in bulk to reduce hazmat and shipping)
Bullet - .23 (175 Nosler factory overrun)
Primer - .02 (Tula large rifle)

Total: $0.38
 
Buying "bulk" online does not save any substantial money. By the time you add the mandatory $28 per purchase hazmat fee, and you pay shipping (and it will be steep when buying bulk ( as we are talking HEAVY components) there is little cost savings. Remember also when you lay out a lot of cash initially on bulk now your cash is tied up in that purchase and not available for other usages. I'm shoot approx 50 match .308 rounds per week, and that number can go down substantially if I can't get to my club and shoot. I reload match for about $.62 all components purchase from LGS's . MY LGS are great people, knowledgeable in hand loading, and they earned my business. It's not always about saving dimes , but making friends, supporting local gun shops and learning from the experts. I purchase my reloading components in small quantities each week or so, even if I don't need a particular component, I buy , so when the next primer or powder scare cleans out the shelves, I will have a good supply to keep me shooting. Just my .02 ....
 
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Road_Clam said:
Buying "bulk" online does not save any substantial money. By the time you add the mandatory $28 per purchase hazmat fee, and you pay shipping (and it will be steep when buying bulk ( as we are talking HEAVY components) there is little cost savings.
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Going to have to disagree with this. Last summer I picked up 4 8lb kegs of powder from Powder Valley. Shipping was 15 and hazmat 27.50. That works out to $10.62 per item. There is no LGS that sells powder for $10 more than PVI, especially after factoring in tax. Bullets you can still get cheaper online as well. Primers are the one area where you can generally do as well locally as online, but when something compelling like the promo MidSouth ran a couple months comes along where they pay hazmat on 5k+ primers, the gap widens.
 
I have young kids too, I reload in small stages, 1/2 hour to an hour at a time over several days, rather than spending the whole day reloading and away from the kids.
 
Infidel45 said:
What is everyone else's cost/benefit ratio when your time is factored into it?
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Most people waste more time in a day/week/month than it takes to load the ammo you need for your shooting.

They also waste more money on all kinds of things than a simple starter reloading setup would cost.


It's all about managing your time and deciding priorities. I haven't purchased factory ammo for years and years. I've always had plenty of time for reloading, shooting, and family by just not wasting time like sleeping in til noon, watching TV for hours, going out and BS'ing every night, and so on that many of my friends seem to do. THEY buy factory ammo. I put the money I saved into quality loading equipment and enjoy accuracy they can only talk about.

I once had to do a time utilization study at my work. In just the time there I found that I wasted a good hour or so every day. Out of curiosity I did the same study on my personal time. I found that I wasted over twice that at home. The term "waste" is only meant to describe time that could have been well used to do something more productive.
 
The big thing is availability, so long as you keep reloading supplies in bulk, you will always be able to shoot when you want. FGMM can dry up from time to time.

Outside of the.308, there are tons of benefits to reloading as fgmm does not really exist in a big way for other calibers. Mainly maximizing accuracy for any given cartridge.
 
Hunt4life said:
The big thing is availability, so long as you keep reloading supplies in bulk, you will always be able to shoot when you want. FGMM can dry up from time to time.

Outside of the.308, there are tons of benefits to reloading as fgmm does not really exist in a big way for other calibers. Mainly maximizing accuracy for any given cartridge.
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True this. Through all the shortages over the last few years I've never had to worry about having something to shoot. Just took delivery of 2k .308 projectiles (to go with the other several thou on the shelf) and haven't even made a dent on the 50+ lbs of powder I keep in stock. I buy primers by the case (5K).

Overall I have no more money invested in my supplies than those who buy ammo by the case but I do have ammo that out performs the factory stuff and I have it whenever I want it for any of my firearms.
 
I'll throw in my .02 for kicks here. I load for the following chamberings: 300RUM, 280AI, 25/06, 30/06, 260 Rem., 44mag and 45ACP.
I don't load for 5.56, .308, 40s/w, 380acp.

I have found it to average$14.50/20 rounds for me to load my rifle chamberings outside of 300RUM..that's about $1.05/rd. I'm sitting at about $14.00/50rds with the 44mag and 45ACP. All of these have allowed me to achieve greater accuracy than any factory loadings I've tried at 1/2 the cost or better.

I haven't really found it cost effective to load the other calibers as I've found factory loadings with acceptable accuracy at a price point that only costs a couple more dollars per box.
You need to look at the long view and decide what your best route is. I like to actually go out and shoot my guns a good bit. That mandates that I handload simply for the sake of economy with most of the chamberings I am working with. Superb accuracy is almost an ancillary benefit, and personally, I won't own a long gun that isn't capable of sub MOA accuracy and a few of them are far better than that.

Given these requiremants, I have bought several things to speed up my reloading process once I have a load dialed in.
A good sized tumbler keeps everything clean
A Hornady Auto charge, drops charges about as fast as I can seat bullets for the rifles
A Redding powder drop throws pistol charges just as fast
A power adapter for my lyman trimmer speeds up trimming

Along with these, I process everything in larger batches. I have several hundred pieces of brass minimum for each gun and process at least 100 at a time. I don't necessarily do more than one step on a given day so organization is a must, however, I can use 30-45min. a day through the course of a week and have 200 rounds to play with over the weekend. This takes the time/money portion out of it for me. For example, after dinner, wife is watching some mind numbing bullshit singing show on the television...I go trim brass for that hour..etc.

All in all, it's more how you manage your time than anything else.
 
I'm retired also and find I'm up most of the night reloading, then short nap and off to the range to shoot my reloads. Afternoon nap, then up and deprime, neck size, FLS, then into the stainless tumbler for two hours, then out to dry. To bed by nine and up about 4 AM. Begin reloading again. Shoot 4-5 days per week at reasonable cost and with good accuracy.

I agree that our children are our most treasured asset and time spent developing their values and character is critical. They grow up so fast, before long they'll be wanting to go out shooting and learning reloading ins and outs. My 38 yo son shoots with me about half the time, but unfortunately has shown no interest in the reloading part of this sport!

Good luck to all and as always be safe!
 
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in addition to all of the above, another good benefit is to customize a load to your particular rifle, if your rifle varies from a "standard" configuration. for instance, a shorty barrel will usually require a faster burning powder than a longer barrel, that an off the shelf ammo may not be able to (usually will not) compensate for the loss of velocity.

as mentioned in a previous post, a particular BC, or bullet design that works well either for paper, steel or game may not be available, which leads to reloading.

for the casual shooter or average hunter it probably doesn't pay off in the short or long run, probably just happy buying a box or two off the shelf, unless of course that same person wants to squeeze out every bit of accuracy they can for the limited amount they shoot.

for my .243 105 bthp or amax loads, i can load them for $19.20 a box of 20, .96 PER ROUND using brand new brass, more like .40 a round thereafter by taking out the cost of the brass.

i'd have to say that for my 110 vmax & 165 sst .308 loads it's about the same as the .243.

factory premium ammos that is liked by both are 30.00ish (usually more) per 20 (about 1.50 each), and i can't find 105's in .243 off the shelf.

from start to finish, takes me about 1.5 hours (deprime, size, trim, *tumble not included*, prime, charge, seat) not rushing to do 20. about 2.25 hrs to do 50, about 3 hrs for a 100. so doing a bigger batch pays off.

using $7.25 an hour (Pa.'s min wage) lets say add $10.88 (no deduction for taxes) for a box of 20, which brings me up to $30.08 a box of 20 using new brass, $18.88 per 20 round box every firing thereafter.

not saving much on the first firing, but approximately $11.00 a box of 20 thereafter, probably more.

using what i actually make an hour, i'm probably even steven or losing, but it's nice to whip up 50 or 100 rounds, knowing it's available, and that everything is "just so" when the trigger is squeezed.



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JRM83 said:
Going to have to disagree with this. Last summer I picked up 4 8lb kegs of powder from Powder Valley. Shipping was 15 and hazmat 27.50. That works out to $10.62 per item. There is no LGS that sells powder for $10 more than PVI, especially after factoring in tax. Bullets you can still get cheaper online as well. Primers are the one area where you can generally do as well locally as online, but when something compelling like the promo MidSouth ran a couple months comes along where they pay hazmat on 5k+ primers, the gap widens.
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+1
I always buy several 8 pound kegs per online order, and my friend and I combine our orders.
Online prices are much better than LGS, and sales tax on an 8 pound keg (which I don't pay shopping online) adds another $10.
 
Ordering bulk online is all well and good in certain situations peticulary if you have a group of people going in on a bulk purchase, but online is only good as long as the product is available which has NOT been the case for the past year and a half. I am also in a more favorable situation for purchasing supplies local as I live in NH and no sales tax. ;) The great news for everyone is i'm seeing a GREAT supply on the shelves of all the top fav powders at my LGS's
 
There has been talk, forever about the economies of handloading. I suppose you can say some cost a few cents more or less than factory stuff, but by the time you factor in the dies for each caliber and the scales and the precision powder measures and a whole room full of specialized tools and manuals and ballistics programs.... that are part of the cost, well, saving money on ammo is a little hard to figure. If you don't enjoy the tactile part of working with your hands, and instead equate it with spending time away from your family, then; reloading is not for you. Any consideration short of accuracy is never going to justify this if you can't find the time for it. It's all about attitude. Bean counters will find some way to justify which ever way they tilt and make it a dollars and cents issue.

It's all about fabricating the best custom, precision ammunition for a specific firearm. Banging away with generic ammo is no better than buying different lots of factory fodder, it's kinda a crapshoot as far as performance. Recreational shooting, informal target practice, setting up cans on the side of a hill, that's all different than match shooting or live targets or long range precision. So, you need to evaluate your needs, or put another way, basic economy car versus a luxury sedan versus public transportation. People that buy cars don't evaluate their cost per mile against what it would cost to take the bus. If it were strictly money, a lot of us would NOT be driving 3/4 ton 4X4's.

Sorry if this is a bit too convoluted. I think the OP should probably just buy whatever factory stuff he can find and forget handloading. Even though he said (later) that he enjoyed it, it does not come across that way. As always, just expressing a personal opinion. BB
 
My cost ratio .... Who knows?? , but my benefit ratio is that I'm producing rounds that will make a rifle achieve peak performance. Trust me, you keep buying factory stuff, eventually you'll surpass the cost of setup, brass, powder, ect.

So , with 5,000 rounds( average life of a.308 ) for 1.22$ a round , that's 6,100$. Simply hypothetical ofcourse , but that would buy EVERYTHING you would need plus a lot more. I also understand everybody has their financial limitations, but you don't have to buy the top of the line everything. Hell, I used Lee dies for years ( still do) and they are a very good set of dies for 32$. The lee collet die is my favorite die out there.
But when it comes to throwing accurate charge weights, that's important. .1 grain spread MAXIMUM. Also buying everything at once isn't necessary. I'd get what I needed to start. A press, powder thrower, dies, comparators , head space tool, chamfer and debur tool, caliper, and some reloading manuals. And ofcourse components.
From there add on as time and money come and go.
 
BuzzBoss915 said:
There has been talk, forever about the economies of handloading. I suppose you can say some cost a few cents more or less than factory stuff, but by the time you factor in the dies for each caliber and the scales and the precision powder measures and a whole room full of specialized tools and manuals and ballistics programs.... that are part of the cost, well, saving money on ammo is a little hard to figure.
Click to expand...

HUH???

.308 match ammo is almost $2 per round.

My cost to reload is 32 cents for the bullet (SMK 175, $160 per 500), 3.5 cents for the primer, 22 cents for the powder (Varget at $35 per pound), and brass at less than 7.5 cents per load (Lapua at $75 per 100, 10 loads) = 65 cents per round. Or a saving of $1.30+ cents per round. Or for 100 rounds, I save $130+.

I have had my press and other things for over 20 years and loaded well over 30,000 total rounds. So I will figure that I have paid it off a LONG time ago. But even starting out, you can get the stuff to load a single caliber for under $500. So load 500 rounds and you have paid for the equipment, and then start making money.

For pistol rounds, it is even better economics. I figured it out, my basic .45 ACP load, at a rate of 1000 loaded per hour (easy with a Dillon 650) is saving me $300 per hour.
 
BuzzBoss915 said:
but by the time you factor in the dies for each caliber and the scales and the precision powder measures and a whole room full of specialized tools and manuals and ballistics programs.... that are part of the cost, well, saving money on ammo is a little hard to figure.
Click to expand...


Not hard to figure out at all. Every business does this as part of their accounting.

Merely add up the cost of all the equipment and tools then divide by the number of years the items have as a useful life. Some tools will wear out in a few years and some are "lifetime items". For the sake of simplicity, use 20 years for most quality reloading tools and equipment. You now have a cost per year which you now divide by the number of rounds per year you load.

This gives you an "ammortization" figure that is merely added to the cost of each rounds powder/primer/bullet cost. Cases should be amortized by the number of firings.


I have $1500 in just my Dillon press alone. It has a life expectancy of almost forever but if I use 20 years, it costs me $75/year. I load over 5,000 rounds of a round that would cost me $1.25 each for only $0.60 on average. That makes my "ammortization cost per round" a whopping $0.015. Considering that I save 43 times that amount I think I can afford "the best".

Yes, not everyone loads ammo in that quantity or ammo that has that level of savings but even if you are loading 9mm pistol ammo and only saving a dime per round, the cost per year/per round is still the same for the equipment.

If you only think of the "hundreds" (or thousands) invested in equipment and tools without taking into consideration the life of the equipment, ammortizing rather than "expensing", then you're not doing a complete analysis.
 
samnev said:
If you are retied like I am time reloading is not a factor but the cost of FGMM is. However I can see the OP's point if he can afford the FGMM and time is valuable to him.
Click to expand...

This, I started reloading .45acp, so I could shoot more. So, reloading 223/308, was a natural progression for me. It's a fun part of the hobby, but I'm retired and have the time for it.
Plus it's adds a little more satisfaction to the shooting experience.

Enjoy
 
OP must decide if reloading is a hobby or a chore. Cost will be relative to the intended purpose.

One can startup with as little as a few hundred dollars or a few thousand. If the reloader really enjoys what he is doing, then cost does not matter.

If the intent is to just crank out ammo as cheap as possible, then I can see how the process can be cumbersome.

There are times when the reloader has other life priorities, i/e family, school, other hobbies; then just pack the stuff up and pickup again later. You notice I did not say work, as for me reloading is part of work/life balance that helps me unwind.

In the end, I am sure there are many hobbies that are much more expensive and have less return on investment, reloading gives the shooter the opportunity to take his shooting to the next level.
 
roggom said:
In the end, I am sure there are many hobbies that are much more expensive and have less return on investment, reloading gives the shooter the opportunity to take his shooting to the next level.
Click to expand...


Hand/Reloading is not for pessimists. That's what "Senior Centers" are for.
 
See? Everybody is going to have their own rationale. Man, I wish I could get inside the head of those that are cranking the handle just so they can blast a few more rounds, every day. I can't say that I enjoy the sport so much as to repeat the same drills and call it practice. To what end?

I already know what I want to do with my match barrels and it is not to see how fast I can burn them up.

If somebody wants to use a benchmark of twenty years to amortize an investment, I guess that's okay for those of us that are dedicated? For someone less committed, I doubt they would get past the nagging doubt that this is wasted time away from their family, Interesting that they fail to use the same motivation/argument for the time spent traveling to, and spending time, at the range?

Just to enlighten, I began hand loading in 1968 and admit to being a fossil. I actually enjoy crafting precision ammunition for each firearm, even if they are the same chambering. I keep them separated by mfg.headstamp and type of bullet used, to the extent that I can select them by feel, if they happen to be in the same pocket; you know, HP and spitzer?

Anyway, yes I completely enjoy the hobby and never attempted to figure the cost of shooting. But, intuitively, I feel that the grocery list of component costs do not tell the whole story, as if your time is worth nothing.

And, I might be a senior but I have never seen the inside of a "Senior Center". Yet.

I just feel that if your heart isn't in to it, you are far better off doing something you actually enjoy.

Also, when discussing your children and enjoying them, don't forget to consider the time you spend surfing the 'net. There are probably other things I could mention but just plug them in one at a time and ask yourself if it comes down to time spent, are any of them, short of putting food on the table, really justified? In other words, why cherry pick this one activity and decide it is unworthy of your time? I do some pretty innocuous things with my time, if I am honest with myself. BB
 
BuzzBoss915 said:
this is wasted time away from their family
Click to expand...


Only if you're using the time to get away from the family.

I grew up shooting with family. Mom and Dad both shot. Uncles and Cousins both shot. My kids and Grandkids shoot and we have all done it together in one form or another for over 60 years. Handloading both one round at a time or by firing up the "factory", it's all been a family event.

To sum up the whole issue of "Cost V Benefit, it's really a case of "If it has to be explained then you'll never understand". You will reload------------or you won't. The rest is just an exchange of ideas with nobody having the winning idea.
 
Every time I book a tuna fishing charter, my wife says I should just go buy some Tuna and " Save the money" .She gets a blank stare. Same thing with the reloading. How about reloading after the kid goes to bed? an hour here, an hour there, can get it done.
 
I enjoy hand loading strictly on a hobby level, I spend a few hrs like every other day. decapping one night, maybe a round of annealing on another night, or trimming. I have about a couple hundred of each .223 and .308 brass ready to load up depending on what type of shooting I plan to do. Life is pie slices divided up amongst work, relax, eat , drink, and handload ...
 
Hey deadshot. While I agree with most of what you wrote, I think you are a bit out of line to quote me out of context.

Originally Posted by BuzzBoss915
"this is wasted time away from their family"

I said nothing of the sort.

"For someone less committed, I doubt they would get past the nagging doubt that this is wasted time away from their family"
BB
 
roggom said:
In the end, I am sure there are many hobbies that are much more expensive and have less return on investment, reloading gives the shooter the opportunity to take his shooting to the next level.
Click to expand...

I used to race sailboats, and now race cars. :)
 
Thanks for all of the comments...well, most of them anyway. Despite the opinions of some that "reloading may not be for you" or the questions regarding commitment, etc., I think I will keep at it--when I have time. As my original post stated..I have only been reloading for a few months and doing so for only two .308 rifles. I don't know enough yet (or have the confidence in my handloading) to start developing loads that are too far outside the "box". I know what my rifles do with FGMM and 118LR, so that is what I am trying to hand load to match...also because my rifles are magazine fed and I have to keep COAL in mind. I haven't been shooting comps or Long Range very long either, compared to most of you it seems, so yes, I am also trying to crank out as many of these "clone match" rounds as I can to get as much trigger time as possible to develop the skill in both hand loading and (more importantly) shooting. I admittedly don't know as much about precision rifle shooting/skill as most here, but I do know (from Military, LE experience and getting to know competition shooters) that it is much more about the shooter (skill/experience) than the gear. The guy that got me into this world is a sponsored shooter for a major optics company....and he ONLY uses factory 118LR and a gas gun in every comp but ASC. I've seen him hit a 6" steel plate at 90 yds with his off the shelf .380 pocket pistol...repeatedly. I've seen a guy with a Wal Mart special, Savage .243 with a fixed 4x Tasco scope ring steel at 1000 yds. So my goals (Skill set development) currently are not the same as most of you who have been there/done that. My thinking is that if I can't consistently hit targets in differing conditions out to the limit of .308 range with Factory Match or a clone thereof, then no "magic hand load" is going to fix that. So my post was along those lines...though apparently not well clarified. I simply want to shoot as much as I can at this stage, as economically as possible, taking into consideration the TIME that I have decided to spend on this pursuit. Everyone's situation is different...doesn't make me any less committed to MY goals--I choose to dedicate more of my time with my family since that is priority 1 for me. This is a hobby to ME...I have no goals to be a sponsored shooter or be famous in these circles. I enjoy doing it and that is WHY I do it. Who is anyone to say "it isn't for you" because I don't do it the way someone else does or spend the same amount of time someone else can or does? You certainly have the right to say it and think it...free country and public forum...but really. I asked only "what is everyone's cost/benefit ratio when time is factored into it" after stating MY current situation and monetary costs. I know I can get supplies cheaper if I buy in bulk but I don't want "2 years worth" of gunpowder in the same house as my wife and 2 yr old. If my house catches fire, I don't want some unsuspecting young firefighter to walk into that while trying to save my home. My house..my choice...your house, your choice-I would never presume to tell someone how to live, manage their family life or whether something they like doing is or isn't "for them" simply because they don't do it my way or place the same priority level on it as I do.

Hell, I just got a chronograph in the mail this week and haven't used it yet...that is how "young" I am at hand loading. Maybe one day I will get a rifle in a "sexy" caliber that deserves the time spent "seating out to the lands" and weighing bullets and cases and separating by same in order to tighten my group up by .00111 inches at 100 yards....but I seriously doubt it. I just like to shoot and want to get better at it, but not at the expense of stuff that is actually important...to me.

Thanks again to those who responded to my simple question & situation without judgment or presumption. For the rest of it? I finally understand Dan Newberry's comment regarding "the self-appointed mall cops of handloading"..
 
Infidel45 said:
(re: large powder "stashes") If my house catches fire, I don't want some unsuspecting young firefighter to walk into that while trying to save my home.
Click to expand...

I shoot twice a week on average with a retired Fireman. He told me that firemen are more worried about all the aerosol cans in peoples houses than their reloading supplies.

In a fire the powder just burns, it doesn't explode. On the other hand, an aerosol paint can, or for that matter most other chemicals in aerosol cans (hairspray is a notorious one), will explode in a fireball and send out pieces of shrapnel.

Not everyone has smokeless powder in their home but almost everyone has flammable aerosol cans throughout their house and don't give it a second thought.
 
Infidel - I'm in a very similar situation as you. I have a 2.5 yr old daughter with another on the way. I reload for 4 cartridges including 308 Win. My 308 reloads cost about $0.50/rd not counting brass or $0.58/rd with Lapua brass amortized over 10 reloads. Time away from my family for a hobby is a big concern for me since I travel for work also. And I'm also in the position to afford factory match ammo if I so choose. I just got my new 308 in March for F class competitions. I bought 3 boxes of factory ammo and I think I have shot about 1/2 a box so far. I much prefer to shoot my loaded ammo. I only have about 250 rds through the gun because I haven't had time to go to the range very often, but I did shoot a 300 yd F class match last month. I came in second to the reigning World Champion. That level of satisfaction is not attainable with factory ammo; at least not in my gun. Now that you have a chono, run some FGGM over it and compare ES and SD with your reloads. I can beat FGGM by at least 10 on SD and probably 40 fps on ES. All that means I will drop less points due to vertical.

Long story short, I reload at night when I have time after my little girl has gone to bed. I reload in stages with the last stage being powder and bullet seating. I will prime brass sitting on the couch in the evening since I can be inside with my family. The time cost of going to the range and a few matches is much more than time spent reloading since going to shoot is at least 1/2 day and matches are all day. Benefits are the satisfaction of winning with my own reloads and improving my skills as a shooter, and I can have ammo any time I want.
 
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