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Hunting & Fishing cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

Good movie and a well presented message.
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

Agreed, let's hope it wakes some people up.
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

Anytime i see a documentary regardless of the subject, i like it when both sides are presented no matter what. I agree the religion and crap has nothing to do with the subject and should be taken out. But like anything, i am sure there are ten hour films that will argue the exact opposite views and do it just as well. The truth usually lies somewhere in between.
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

Those of us who live amongst this crap seem to have differing views from those who don't. Funny how that works.

 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

Pretty interesting.
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

Everyone that likes seeing Elk and Moose around has an obligation to start hunting wolves. Period. Common sense is not going to prevail until it is too late.
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

I don't know if anyone else noticed the bigger, big picture in this documentary.

Why would the government want to introduce animals to control wildlife populations?

I believe the only answer to this question is the disarmament of the american people. If the ferderal government takes over wildlife management and supercedes state regulations then your right to bear arms will be in dire jeapordy. When these wolves, coyotes, wild hogs, etc. begin impacting big game animals and the feds can stop hunting, that will be their time to strike. Liberals will be shouting, Why do you need a gun if their is not anymore hunting allowed? They will say, th only reason to have a gun now is to kill people so we will remove the guns. After the guns are gone you will be sheep. Sheep do not need to vote. So you will not. And your life will not be your own.

However, I do not fear this, because I will never see it. I will never see it because the moment it comes to pass I would have first been killed before I relinquish my constitutional rights and god given rights.
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rediculous</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know if anyone else noticed the bigger, big picture in this documentary.

Why would the government want to introduce animals to control wildlife populations?

I believe the only answer to this question is the disarmament of the american people. If the ferderal government takes over wildlife management and supercedes state regulations then your right to bear arms will be in dire jeapordy. When these wolves, coyotes, wild hogs, etc. begin impacting big game animals and the feds can stop hunting, that will be their time to strike. Liberals will be shouting, Why do you need a gun if their is not anymore hunting allowed? They will say, th only reason to have a gun now is to kill people so we will remove the guns. After the guns are gone you will be sheep. Sheep do not need to vote. So you will not. And your life will not be your own.

However, I do not fear this, because I will never see it. I will never see it because the moment it comes to pass I would have first been killed before I relinquish my constitutional rights and god given rights. </div></div>

The Right to Keep And Bear Arms has absolutely nothing to do with Hunting, zero, zip, nada........and Hunting simply is NOT a Right guaranteed by the Constitution.

That said...you would have to beat me out the door to defend Them.
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

Great video! That's home town for me, I've know most the ranchers in the video all my life and some of the livestock kill pictures I've seen first hand. Hell, I grew up on one of the ranches in the video and talked to them the other day about hooking me up with a wolf. Those guys have knocked the wolves back quite a bit lately, not nearly as many cows killed this year, I had one of the packs mentioned come into a stand while I was calling coyotes, kinda made me feel I needed a little more fire power than I had in my bolt action, they met their demise shortly after than.
The "religion" part is essential to our rights as States and as citizens, it's a core part of this IMO.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rediculous</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know if anyone else noticed the bigger, big picture in this documentary.

Why would the government want to introduce animals to control wildlife populations?

I believe the only answer to this question is the disarmament of the american people. If the ferderal government takes over wildlife management and supercedes state regulations then your right to bear arms will be in dire jeapordy. When these wolves, coyotes, wild hogs, etc. begin impacting big game animals and the feds can stop hunting, that will be their time to strike. Liberals will be shouting, Why do you need a gun if their is not anymore hunting allowed? They will say, th only reason to have a gun now is to kill people so we will remove the guns. After the guns are gone you will be sheep. Sheep do not need to vote. So you will not. And your life will not be your own.

However, I do not fear this, because I will never see it. I will never see it because the moment it comes to pass I would have first been killed before I relinquish my constitutional rights and god given rights. </div></div>

The Right to Keep And Bear Arms has absolutely nothing to do with Hunting, zero, zip, nada........and Hunting simply is NOT a Right guaranteed by the Constitution.

That said...you would have to beat me out the door to defend Them. </div></div>

I'm under the belief that the introduction of the wolves has a substantial part in firearms. For a long time citizens who have arms stated that they have them so they may hunt. With that, hunting is a management tool. To keep populations in check. It is my opinion that the wolves were placed to populate and expand the ranges to "manage" game herds. In the end if the game populations are depleted enough that there is no need to hunt them ( read manage by hunting ). Then there is a large part of the argument to own a firearm taken.
I firmly believe the anti firearms people are behind it.
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

rights to hunting were not granted by the constitution because they were was first granted by God. As for having something to do with the right to bear arms, you are wrong. Because of the times we live in the majority of the public does not know how to hunt or want to hunt. They are also reliant on the government and cannot provide for themselves. This is what the government wants, a citizen populous that cannot provide for themselves without the government. Once that is attained we will be owned. Easiest way to get people rip roarin' now days is declare something endangered. Then you have a voting group to ban hunting. After that to make sure you maintain absolute control you can't have a bunch of honkies with rifles so you PR campaign the uselessness of a weapon when hunting animals is outlawed. Our constitution has already been misconstrued and vandilized by poloticians and if you think they won't mislead the average ignorant joe you are wrong. RF ID chips and GPS implants...does anybody know what this means? Revalations?

-I may be taking this too far, but anything can happen and preparing for the worst now will keep you safe from the lesser later.
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

You are right about this being a must see for everyone.
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

I've lived in the west, in or around area's where wolves have affected livelihoods for over 15 yrs.. At one point in time my livelihood was directly related/affected by the wolves. I was at all the meetings regarding the wolves and their status. Many, many of the Outfitters, Ranchers etc. have a firm suspicion if not a firm belief that this wolf thing has a lot to do with firearms.
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rediculous</div><div class="ubbcode-body">rights to hunting were not granted by the constitution because they were was first granted by God. As for having something to do with the right to bear arms, you are wrong. Because of the times we live in the majority of the public does not know how to hunt or want to hunt. They are also reliant on the government and cannot provide for themselves. This is what the government wants, a citizen populous that cannot provide for themselves without the government. Once that is attained we will be owned. Easiest way to get people rip roarin' now days is declare something endangered. Then you have a voting group to ban hunting. After that to make sure you maintain absolute control you can't have a bunch of honkies with rifles so you PR campaign the uselessness of a weapon when hunting animals is outlawed. Our constitution has already been misconstrued and vandilized by poloticians and if you think they won't mislead the average ignorant joe you are wrong. RF ID chips and GPS implants...does anybody know what this means? Revalations?

-I may be taking this too far, but anything can happen and preparing for the worst now will keep you safe from the lesser later. </div></div>

Wow, just wow....

Back to reality now for a minute, if you don't mind. Feel free to copy/paste any part of the Second Amendment, or any part the entire Constitution for that matter, which states that you have a Right to Keep & Bear for hunting purposes.

I'll wait..........
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

For some reason people realize that wolves were here before the introduced them. Also, the wolves the sent us are not the same wolf that we originally got rid of..

That being said i don't know too many people that don't have a wolf tag in their pocket and i know im going to make sure some wolves have a very hard winter...

Just got done with the worst elk hunting season i have ever seen. Lots of wolves, little bit of elk. The sheep herder that tries to make a living didn't have anything good to say about them when the wolves jumped into the corral with the sheep.

I encourage everyone that wants to protect wolves to get one as a pet..
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

I'll be watching this later, hence the reason for this:

TAG
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

The 3 S's will work on Wolves.
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

Its legal here, so the three s's stand for shoot...shoot...shoot
smile.gif
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

I do understand the concept behind introducing these wolves into the ecosystem but it was and is a stupid idea. Just like many of the other intodcued species (vegitative and animal) the goverment have relased like the cane toad or cudzu. These introductions have completely destroyed ecosystems.

I don't think there was any kind of conspiricy going on to get rid of guns by releasing wolves. The idea was, wolves are natrual predetors in the ecosystem, they will help control wild animal populations and make those populations healthier. When an animal heard gets to large the wolves will change their diets from lets say rabbits or deer to elk.

So they eat primarly elk for a couple years and the elk heards get smaller. Since the elk heards are smaller all the elk are healthier since there are many less elk to compete with for food or mating. So the wolves switch back to deer mainly since the cost in energy to find and capture an elk is to high.

Since the deer have been left alone for 2 years the deer population has exploded and many of the deer are unhelthier since they are competing with so many other deer. So here comes the wolves, and the cycle starts over.

This is a very simple explination of a very complex system. Anyways this was part of the idea (or one of the excuses) for introducing wolves by some "very smart people". Or so they thought they were smart, mabye they sould have taken into account the livestock that was in the neigboring area, why hunt elk when they can take down a slower moving animal like a cow. Not only is the cow easier to capture, no matter how many cows they kill they are replaced by more cattle.

You would think these people would learn.
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

I'll go on record again and say there is a need for wolves. However, not the volume we have. There is more to the story than we'll ever know. But on the surface you can start to make educated guesses.
We all have tags in hand when hitting the hills.
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: briscoetab</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So they eat primarly elk for a couple years and the elk heards get smaller. Since the elk heards are smaller all the elk are healthier since there are many less elk to compete with for food or mating. </div></div>

As a biologist, I must say this view is a bit simplistic. Yes, over time, the elk herd will be smaller and likely healthier. However, this relies on the assumption that the elk were over-populated to begin with. In most areas of elk country I have frequented, I find this assumption to be false.

Also, it is over extended periods of time where you see this equilibration of populations to where the prey population is smaller and healthier. In the short term, predator populations can and will exploded (if not regulated) until they nearly exterminate game. Then it will swing in the other direction, on and on until equilibrium is established.

When much of the money used to maintain wildlife today comes from hunters, it is nothing short of sheer stupidity to allow game populations to be decimated to the point that they have been in some areas.

Add onto this the fact that elk do not have the freedom to move in response to predator pressure that they used to. Their range has been severely restricted by human encroachment as, unlike whitetails, they will not typically move in and live side by side with people. The whole equation has been changed since the wolf disappeared.

I have no problems with an adequate, well-thought-out, and regulated wolf population. But what we have now is complete stupidity. I applaud the efforts taken by the states to push back on the feds...but c'mon Montana, I can't help you out when you manage the wolf as a big game animal (ie $350 NR tags, that's a pricey lottery ticket).
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

ATH,

Yes I know what I said is simplistic, very simplistic and that is what i stated "this is a very simple explanation of a complex system".

I am not currently a bioligist in the sense of the job, but do have a degree is forest wildlife management and have done work in that field, just not currently. Like I said I do understand this concept and the purpose behind it.

Like you said you must assume that the populations are overpopulated and unhealty for what I said to be true. Are elk populations currently overpopulated, not that I know of but in recent years there have been areas where they were. I also never said that elk were overabundant, I was siimple stating the concept behind having natural predators in order to control animal populations.

I do pretty much agree with everything you said and was not saying what I said in an angry manner, just clearing up what you were saying about what I said (don't want you to think I took offense to what you said since I am typing and not talking and that is hard to convey in a written message).
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

What people fail to understand is that we already HAD wolves before the stuck more in the mix. You just didn't see or hear them unless you were a bit remote. One friend has seen 3 this year from his pickup! Also, the wolves the introduced are not the same wolf that was here.

Alaska is a good example of what the predators will/can do. The shoot them from helicopters for a reason. Its because they don't just kill the sick and weak or what they need to survive like people that DONT live here and see it think (or read on the internet). They kill everything, then move to a new area for food. You cannot buy a non resident moose tag for the keni peninsula anymore. too many predators and hardly any moose. It used to be the primer place to hunt moose in the 70's.

Come to idaho, i will buy you 2 wolf tags and point you in a direction...

011-2012 Wolf Hunting Season: Idaho-
http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/hunt/?getPage=266

Standard hunting season dates statewide: Aug 30 - Mar 31, except for Aug 30 - Dec 31 in Island Park and Beaverhead wolf management zones and Aug 30 - June 30 in Lolo and Selway zones.
Hunters may buy 2 tags per calendar year.
Bag limit: No person may take more than one wolf per legal tag in his or her possession.
Hunting hours are one half hour before sunrise to one half hour after sunset.
Wolf seasons are Any-Weapon seasons.
Electronic calls may be used statewide.
Wolves may be taken incidentally during fall bear baiting.
Reduced-price nonresident wolf tags ($31.75) statewide.
Hunters must report killing a wolf within 72 hours. Hunters must present skull and hide to IDFG office within 10 days.
The wolf season closes when the harvest limit for that zone is reached or the season closing date, whichever comes first.
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: briscoetab</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ATH,

Yes I know what I said is simplistic, very simplistic and that is what i stated "this is a very simple explanation of a complex system".

I am not currently a bioligist in the sense of the job, but do have a degree is forest wildlife management and have done work in that field, just not currently. Like I said I do understand this concept and the purpose behind it.

Like you said you must assume that the populations are overpopulated and unhealty for what I said to be true. Are elk populations currently overpopulated, not that I know of but in recent years there have been areas where they were. I also never said that elk were overabundant, I was siimple stating the concept behind having natural predators in order to control animal populations.

I do pretty much agree with everything you said and was not saying what I said in an angry manner, just clearing up what you were saying about what I said (don't want you to think I took offense to what you said since I am typing and not talking and that is hard to convey in a written message). </div></div>

We're all good, given that I've heard similar to your original post from the mouths of some rabid wolf proponents I was more concerned with someone reading it and not also the fuller explanation. Just wanted to add that context.
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What people fail to understand is that we already HAD wolves before the stuck more in the mix. You just didn't see or hear them unless you were a bit remote. One friend has seen 3 this year from his pickup! Also, the wolves the introduced are not the same wolf that was here.

Alaska is a good example of what the predators will/can do. The shoot them from helicopters for a reason. Its because they don't just kill the sick and weak or what they need to survive like people that DONT live here and see it think (or read on the internet). They kill everything, then move to a new area for food. You cannot buy a non resident moose tag for the keni peninsula anymore. too many predators and hardly any moose. It used to be the primer place to hunt moose in the 70's.

Come to idaho, i will buy you 2 wolf tags and point you in a direction...

011-2012 Wolf Hunting Season: Idaho-
http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/hunt/?getPage=266

Standard hunting season dates statewide: Aug 30 - Mar 31, except for Aug 30 - Dec 31 in Island Park and Beaverhead wolf management zones and Aug 30 - June 30 in Lolo and Selway zones.
Hunters may buy 2 tags per calendar year.
Bag limit: No person may take more than one wolf per legal tag in his or her possession.
Hunting hours are one half hour before sunrise to one half hour after sunset.
Wolf seasons are Any-Weapon seasons.
Electronic calls may be used statewide.
Wolves may be taken incidentally during fall bear baiting.
Reduced-price nonresident wolf tags ($31.75) statewide.
Hunters must report killing a wolf within 72 hours. Hunters must present skull and hide to IDFG office within 10 days.
The wolf season closes when the harvest limit for that zone is reached or the season closing date, whichever comes first. </div></div>

Glen -

I am on my way. Can I have a tour of the shop when I stop by for my tags?
wink.gif
I hunted MT last year for deer/elk. The wolves had definintely made the elk a bit scarcer around those areas according to the locals we were talking to.
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Come to idaho, i will buy you 2 wolf tags and point you in a direction...

011-2012 Wolf Hunting Season: Idaho-
http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/hunt/?getPage=266

Standard hunting season dates statewide: Aug 30 - Mar 31, except for Aug 30 - Dec 31 in Island Park and Beaverhead wolf management zones and Aug 30 - June 30 in Lolo and Selway zones.
Hunters may buy 2 tags per calendar year.
Bag limit: No person may take more than one wolf per legal tag in his or her possession.
Hunting hours are one half hour before sunrise to one half hour after sunset.
Wolf seasons are Any-Weapon seasons.
Electronic calls may be used statewide.
Wolves may be taken incidentally during fall bear baiting.
Reduced-price nonresident wolf tags ($31.75) statewide.
Hunters must report killing a wolf within 72 hours. Hunters must present skull and hide to IDFG office within 10 days.
The wolf season closes when the harvest limit for that zone is reached or the season closing date, whichever comes first. </div></div>


hmmm... sign me up!!!!!!
 
Re: cry wolf the real reason wolves were introduced

Tripwire,
I agree with those that think it is a push by anti-gun folks. Follow the money. If they take away our hunting seasons, less people own guns. The less people that own guns, the less people that care if guns are taken away.

Why do we need guns if we can't hunt? We don't need them for protection, there are plenty of police out there! The gov't will take care of us. You see my point. Not arguing constitutional semantics, but simply getting on board the logic train (toot! toot!).
 
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