Looking for some info on treating a barreled action. Any body had it done?
Re: Cryogenic treatment
It was all the rage 10 years ago. Some barrel makers still do it as standard and some offer it as an option. I say don't waste your time.
It was all the rage 10 years ago. Some barrel makers still do it as standard and some offer it as an option. I say don't waste your time.
Re: Cryogenic treatment
If you're planning on using your barrel as a cutting implement, or put a lot of rounds through it in a little time, go ahead, it's your money. Cryo is great for cutting tools, I had it done to one of my rifles years ago when I worked in a machine shop that did cryo to tooling. I haven't really noticed much of a difference.
If you're planning on using your barrel as a cutting implement, or put a lot of rounds through it in a little time, go ahead, it's your money. Cryo is great for cutting tools, I had it done to one of my rifles years ago when I worked in a machine shop that did cryo to tooling. I haven't really noticed much of a difference.
Re: Cryogenic treatment
it's one of those zen things, disbelieve at your peril. will you ever know if it helped? never. did you build a gun worth alot of money? i did. i spent it, $80 plus ship to 300 below. you believe your smith did it better than any other? if a tree falls in the forest....it's your barrel and your money.
it's one of those zen things, disbelieve at your peril. will you ever know if it helped? never. did you build a gun worth alot of money? i did. i spent it, $80 plus ship to 300 below. you believe your smith did it better than any other? if a tree falls in the forest....it's your barrel and your money.
Re: Cryogenic treatment
Is it going to make a shot out barrel a MOA tack driver ? Not a chance in Hades ! Will it help prolong the life of a brrel ? yeah, sorta, maybe. I had one done years (as in 12+) ago, sold it to a friends son and he won't part with it. Loves it. FWIW, it was a Douglas barrel installed on a Ruger. It was quick to clean and it shot great I just wanted to go in a different direction than the Ruger.
I have seriously thought about sending off 2 Schneider barrels just to see if there is a difference. I have seen marked improvement on cutting tools and engine parts but ... rifle barrels are still a enigma.
Is it going to make a shot out barrel a MOA tack driver ? Not a chance in Hades ! Will it help prolong the life of a brrel ? yeah, sorta, maybe. I had one done years (as in 12+) ago, sold it to a friends son and he won't part with it. Loves it. FWIW, it was a Douglas barrel installed on a Ruger. It was quick to clean and it shot great I just wanted to go in a different direction than the Ruger.
I have seriously thought about sending off 2 Schneider barrels just to see if there is a difference. I have seen marked improvement on cutting tools and engine parts but ... rifle barrels are still a enigma.
Re: Cryogenic treatment
Cryogenic tempering works. By "works" one should ask what exactly does it do for the money? From a microstructure perspective it refines the grain structure and precipitates martensite (hard carbides) without any additional brittleness associated with quenching.
So, what does this buy you? Better toughness, wear resistance and much better crack fatigue resistance (due to smaller, more dense grain structure). The higher the carbon content in the steel the more prononced the results. But it also works with non-ferritic alloys such as aluminum. It appears to me that any alloy that responds to conventional hardening will also positively respond to deep cryogenic tempering.
What won't it buy you? Sub MOA from a poorly fabricated/constructed barrel. I did notice some slightly (though statistically significant) smaller groups at 100 yards, but that was not the reasons I had it done. One would have to shoot, say, 50 rounds of the same lot number prior to and afterwards. I did 20 before and after and the groups were about 20% smaller.
I worked with the gentleman who "perfected" the process (Edward Busch) owner of Cryo-Tech in Hazel Park, Michigan. He and I would sit and discuss metallurgy and he held nothing back from me. He actually offered me a job but I knew it would be a difficult sell since it's the very opposite of what I had been taught so I declined. I will tell you this, however: I saw Tiger Woods' golf clubs (long before I knew of a "tiger woods"), parts of a satellite, cylinder heads for a top aftermarket motorcycle manufacturer tuner, drag race engine blocks and cylinder heads for several top fuel dragster engine builders as well as NASCAR engine components and cylinder heads, AMA motorcycle complete engines and brakes. Cylinder heads, springs, brake discs, connecting rods, pistons and crankshafts are regularly cryo'd in motorsports applications today.
People have misconceptions and this is probably due to them not being very familiar with Metallurgy. A properly done barrel will benefit but will YOU notice it? Probably not. Is it worth the money? To me it is but then I'm well aware of metallurgy and the benefits of grain structure refinement and carbides. Most persons will not be as aware and to be honest I find that most sane persons aren't the least bit interested in wading through dry, technical material. Just keep in mind that it performs NO miracles and MOST of us will not tax our equipment enough to warrant much of the processes available to manufacturers.
Oh, one benefit for barrel makers and firearm manufacturers is that the machinability improves somewhat. The downside is the time required to properly temper and anneal the blanks - and time is money.
Cryogenic tempering works. By "works" one should ask what exactly does it do for the money? From a microstructure perspective it refines the grain structure and precipitates martensite (hard carbides) without any additional brittleness associated with quenching.
So, what does this buy you? Better toughness, wear resistance and much better crack fatigue resistance (due to smaller, more dense grain structure). The higher the carbon content in the steel the more prononced the results. But it also works with non-ferritic alloys such as aluminum. It appears to me that any alloy that responds to conventional hardening will also positively respond to deep cryogenic tempering.
What won't it buy you? Sub MOA from a poorly fabricated/constructed barrel. I did notice some slightly (though statistically significant) smaller groups at 100 yards, but that was not the reasons I had it done. One would have to shoot, say, 50 rounds of the same lot number prior to and afterwards. I did 20 before and after and the groups were about 20% smaller.
I worked with the gentleman who "perfected" the process (Edward Busch) owner of Cryo-Tech in Hazel Park, Michigan. He and I would sit and discuss metallurgy and he held nothing back from me. He actually offered me a job but I knew it would be a difficult sell since it's the very opposite of what I had been taught so I declined. I will tell you this, however: I saw Tiger Woods' golf clubs (long before I knew of a "tiger woods"), parts of a satellite, cylinder heads for a top aftermarket motorcycle manufacturer tuner, drag race engine blocks and cylinder heads for several top fuel dragster engine builders as well as NASCAR engine components and cylinder heads, AMA motorcycle complete engines and brakes. Cylinder heads, springs, brake discs, connecting rods, pistons and crankshafts are regularly cryo'd in motorsports applications today.
People have misconceptions and this is probably due to them not being very familiar with Metallurgy. A properly done barrel will benefit but will YOU notice it? Probably not. Is it worth the money? To me it is but then I'm well aware of metallurgy and the benefits of grain structure refinement and carbides. Most persons will not be as aware and to be honest I find that most sane persons aren't the least bit interested in wading through dry, technical material. Just keep in mind that it performs NO miracles and MOST of us will not tax our equipment enough to warrant much of the processes available to manufacturers.
Oh, one benefit for barrel makers and firearm manufacturers is that the machinability improves somewhat. The downside is the time required to properly temper and anneal the blanks - and time is money.
Re: Cryogenic treatment
I would pay the price and have it done! I think it does work and works well!
I would pay the price and have it done! I think it does work and works well!
Re: Cryogenic treatment
I think it comes down to the simple question...
Will it hurt? No.
Will it help? Maybe.
Iteresting that its used on cutting tools...I could see a barrel falling under the spectrum of cutting tool. What exactly do lands do? They cut.
With all the voodoo surrounding barrels now, and in the past, I'm supprised its not a more hotly debated topic.
I think it comes down to the simple question...
Will it hurt? No.
Will it help? Maybe.
Iteresting that its used on cutting tools...I could see a barrel falling under the spectrum of cutting tool. What exactly do lands do? They cut.
With all the voodoo surrounding barrels now, and in the past, I'm supprised its not a more hotly debated topic.
Re: Cryogenic treatment
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wheres-Waldo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think it comes down to the simple question...
Will it hurt? No.
Will it help? Maybe.
Iteresting that its used on cutting tools...I could see a barrel falling under the spectrum of cutting tool. What exactly do lands do? They cut.
With all the voodoo surrounding barrels now, and in the past, I'm supprised its not a more hotly debated topic. </div></div>
do the lands cut or form the bullet?
i am strongly thinking about having my axle shafts cryo treated in my rock crawler but i am not 100% sold on it for a barrel. i don't think it could hurt (other than your wallet) though.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wheres-Waldo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think it comes down to the simple question...
Will it hurt? No.
Will it help? Maybe.
Iteresting that its used on cutting tools...I could see a barrel falling under the spectrum of cutting tool. What exactly do lands do? They cut.
With all the voodoo surrounding barrels now, and in the past, I'm supprised its not a more hotly debated topic. </div></div>
do the lands cut or form the bullet?
i am strongly thinking about having my axle shafts cryo treated in my rock crawler but i am not 100% sold on it for a barrel. i don't think it could hurt (other than your wallet) though.
Re: Cryogenic treatment
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't hurt. It might or might not help. Ask the major custom barrel makers and, over a beer, most of them will tell you to save your money. </div></div>
Was able to ask a major barrel maker and that is exactly what he said.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't hurt. It might or might not help. Ask the major custom barrel makers and, over a beer, most of them will tell you to save your money. </div></div>
Was able to ask a major barrel maker and that is exactly what he said.
Re: Cryogenic treatment
Oh it was a hotly debated topic several years ago, I forget what happened, I think we all just decided "to each his own" and left it at that.
Like I said, I had mine done, but really only because I could get it done for free. I don't shoot that particular rifle enough for it to make a difference on barrel life. but it sure makes my buddies drool.
Oh it was a hotly debated topic several years ago, I forget what happened, I think we all just decided "to each his own" and left it at that.
Like I said, I had mine done, but really only because I could get it done for free. I don't shoot that particular rifle enough for it to make a difference on barrel life. but it sure makes my buddies drool.
Re: Cryogenic treatment
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaddyRat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't hurt. It might or might not help. Ask the major custom barrel makers and, over a beer, most of them will tell you to save your money. </div></div>
Was able to ask a major barrel maker and that is exactly what he said.</div></div>
Was he a Metallurgist? Has he any courses and lab experience in Metallurgy?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaddyRat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't hurt. It might or might not help. Ask the major custom barrel makers and, over a beer, most of them will tell you to save your money. </div></div>
Was able to ask a major barrel maker and that is exactly what he said.</div></div>
Was he a Metallurgist? Has he any courses and lab experience in Metallurgy?
Re: Cryogenic treatment
If you Cryo your barrel, and it shoots well, it's money well spent. If you don't Cryo your barrel, and it shoots well, then it's money saved. You win either way.
Barrels aren't Voodoo; but I sacrifice live chickens to my best shooting rifles every year.....Never screw with the mojo of a fine shooting barrel.
Bob
If you Cryo your barrel, and it shoots well, it's money well spent. If you don't Cryo your barrel, and it shoots well, then it's money saved. You win either way.
Barrels aren't Voodoo; but I sacrifice live chickens to my best shooting rifles every year.....Never screw with the mojo of a fine shooting barrel.
Bob
Re: Cryogenic treatment
Interestingly, Krieger runs every heat of steel through Cryo prior to the deep hole drill operation.
Several years ago, they ran some tests on their drilling with and without. Results were that the drilling process went much more smooth and straight after Cryo.
They purchased a complete system and process all their steel prior to this operation.
Not sure how much effect it will have to Cryo a finished product but machinability is definitely impacted in a positive manner.
Best,
Terry
Interestingly, Krieger runs every heat of steel through Cryo prior to the deep hole drill operation.
Several years ago, they ran some tests on their drilling with and without. Results were that the drilling process went much more smooth and straight after Cryo.
They purchased a complete system and process all their steel prior to this operation.
Not sure how much effect it will have to Cryo a finished product but machinability is definitely impacted in a positive manner.
Best,
Terry
Re: Cryogenic treatment
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Terry Cross</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interestingly, Krieger runs every heat of steel through Cryo prior to the deep hole drill operation.
Several years ago, they ran some tests on their drilling with and without. Results were that the drilling process went much more smooth and straight after Cryo.
They purchased a complete system and process all their steel prior to this operation.
Not sure how much effect it will have to Cryo a finished product but machinability is definitely impacted in a positive manner.
Best,
Terry </div></div>
That was our experience as well. Its not going to help after the barrel is done nearly as much as it would to the piece of billet before machining. The stress relief we use on a completed barrel has be proven to work and it works well every day. Just because the molecules in your barrel are perfectly aligned doenst mean it does much at all to stablize harmonics in your barrel. Thats why we use harmonic stress relief.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Terry Cross</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interestingly, Krieger runs every heat of steel through Cryo prior to the deep hole drill operation.
Several years ago, they ran some tests on their drilling with and without. Results were that the drilling process went much more smooth and straight after Cryo.
They purchased a complete system and process all their steel prior to this operation.
Not sure how much effect it will have to Cryo a finished product but machinability is definitely impacted in a positive manner.
Best,
Terry </div></div>
That was our experience as well. Its not going to help after the barrel is done nearly as much as it would to the piece of billet before machining. The stress relief we use on a completed barrel has be proven to work and it works well every day. Just because the molecules in your barrel are perfectly aligned doenst mean it does much at all to stablize harmonics in your barrel. Thats why we use harmonic stress relief.
Re: Cryogenic treatment
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[
Its not going to help after the barrel is done nearly as much as it would to the piece of billet before machining. The stress relief we use on a completed barrel has be proven to work and it works well every day. Just because the molecules in your barrel are perfectly aligned doenst mean it does much at all to stablize harmonics in your barrel. Thats why we use harmonic stress relief.</div></div>
The fatigue strength, toughness and crack resistance properties will improve if DCT is performed after the barrel is completed. It matters not if its done as a billet or finished. As long as you don't raise the temp of the material above the recrystallization temperature during your barrel making (and you won't) the effects of the process remain.
I agree that it would be better if done before operations on the blank because you extend your tool life. As an end user only, I don't see the tool life aspect of making the barrel so its a "blind operation" to the public. If I were in the barrel making business I'd treat my stock and tools then carry on focusing on the aspects that I can more easily control.
I'm curious as to your reference to "harmonic stress relief". Could you share, in general/generic terms, what it is you're referring to? Thanks in advance.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[
Its not going to help after the barrel is done nearly as much as it would to the piece of billet before machining. The stress relief we use on a completed barrel has be proven to work and it works well every day. Just because the molecules in your barrel are perfectly aligned doenst mean it does much at all to stablize harmonics in your barrel. Thats why we use harmonic stress relief.</div></div>
The fatigue strength, toughness and crack resistance properties will improve if DCT is performed after the barrel is completed. It matters not if its done as a billet or finished. As long as you don't raise the temp of the material above the recrystallization temperature during your barrel making (and you won't) the effects of the process remain.
I agree that it would be better if done before operations on the blank because you extend your tool life. As an end user only, I don't see the tool life aspect of making the barrel so its a "blind operation" to the public. If I were in the barrel making business I'd treat my stock and tools then carry on focusing on the aspects that I can more easily control.
I'm curious as to your reference to "harmonic stress relief". Could you share, in general/generic terms, what it is you're referring to? Thanks in advance.
Re: Cryogenic treatment
I've always wondered if people would buy cryogenically treated everyday things, just to say they were cryogenically treated? Like pens, stainless steel coffee cups, staplers and such....
How's that for your weird marketing idea of the day?
I've always wondered if people would buy cryogenically treated everyday things, just to say they were cryogenically treated? Like pens, stainless steel coffee cups, staplers and such....
How's that for your weird marketing idea of the day?
Re: Cryogenic treatment
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you Cryo your barrel, and it shoots well, it's money well spent. If you don't Cryo your barrel, and it shoots well, then it's money saved. You win either way.
Barrels aren't Voodoo; but I sacrifice live chickens to my best shooting rifles every year.....Never screw with the mojo of a fine shooting barrel.
Bob
</div></div>
Awesome post. Even coming from a puddle jumper.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you Cryo your barrel, and it shoots well, it's money well spent. If you don't Cryo your barrel, and it shoots well, then it's money saved. You win either way.
Barrels aren't Voodoo; but I sacrifice live chickens to my best shooting rifles every year.....Never screw with the mojo of a fine shooting barrel.
Bob
</div></div>
Awesome post. Even coming from a puddle jumper.
Re: Cryogenic treatment
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy2Times</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you Cryo your barrel, and it shoots well, it's money well spent. If you don't Cryo your barrel, and it shoots well, then it's money saved. You win either way.
Barrels aren't Voodoo; but I sacrifice live chickens to my best shooting rifles every year.....Never screw with the mojo of a fine shooting barrel.
Bob
</div></div>
Awesome post. Even coming from a puddle jumper. </div></div>
Hey, I resemble that remark!!!!
Bob
ex-QM2, USCG
1969-1974
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy2Times</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you Cryo your barrel, and it shoots well, it's money well spent. If you don't Cryo your barrel, and it shoots well, then it's money saved. You win either way.
Barrels aren't Voodoo; but I sacrifice live chickens to my best shooting rifles every year.....Never screw with the mojo of a fine shooting barrel.
Bob
</div></div>
Awesome post. Even coming from a puddle jumper.
Hey, I resemble that remark!!!!
Bob
ex-QM2, USCG
1969-1974
Re: Cryogenic treatment
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chui</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm curious as to your reference to "harmonic stress relief". Could you share, in general/generic terms, what it is you're referring to? Thanks in advance. </div></div>
We use a setup similar to a mill table that has a vibrating force inducer on it. On that there is a tool to measure the vibrations that are coming from the barrel. Its computer controled and it vibrates the barrel in the sub-harmonic and the peak harmonic areas and does it untill the harmonics of the barrel become stable.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chui</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm curious as to your reference to "harmonic stress relief". Could you share, in general/generic terms, what it is you're referring to? Thanks in advance. </div></div>
We use a setup similar to a mill table that has a vibrating force inducer on it. On that there is a tool to measure the vibrations that are coming from the barrel. Its computer controled and it vibrates the barrel in the sub-harmonic and the peak harmonic areas and does it untill the harmonics of the barrel become stable.
Re: Cryogenic treatment
Custom knife makers have been using this since the early 80's
Needs to be part of the process, not an afterthought. imo
There is another thread related to this to.
Custom knife makers have been using this since the early 80's
Needs to be part of the process, not an afterthought. imo
There is another thread related to this to.
Re: Cryogenic treatment
Are we talking about treating a factory bbl. or a custom bbl.
Are we talking about treating a factory bbl. or a custom bbl.
Re: Cryogenic treatment
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GunsAreCool.com</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've always wondered if people would buy cryogenically treated everyday things, just to say they were cryogenically treated? Like pens, stainless steel coffee cups, staplers and such....
How's that for your weird marketing idea of the day? </div></div>
a guy around here did a batch of disposable razors. i hear they lasted quite a bit longer than non-cryo treated ones.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GunsAreCool.com</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've always wondered if people would buy cryogenically treated everyday things, just to say they were cryogenically treated? Like pens, stainless steel coffee cups, staplers and such....
How's that for your weird marketing idea of the day? </div></div>
a guy around here did a batch of disposable razors. i hear they lasted quite a bit longer than non-cryo treated ones.
Re: Cryogenic treatment
factory savage 10fp barrel
factory savage 10fp barrel
Re: Cryogenic treatment
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chui</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm curious as to your reference to "harmonic stress relief". Could you share, in general/generic terms, what it is you're referring to? Thanks in advance. </div></div>
We use a setup similar to a mill table that has a vibrating force inducer on it. On that there is a tool to measure the vibrations that are coming from the barrel. Its computer controled and it vibrates the barrel in the sub-harmonic and the peak harmonic areas and does it until the harmonics of the barrel become stable. </div></div>
I'm an NVH (Noise, Vibrations and Harshness) engineer by profession and I understand having a forcing function on one end of the barrel which I assume is held in a fixed-free condition, i.e., held at the chamber end with an accelerometer near the muzzle in the same plane as the forcing function. By doing an "impact test" one can observe the response of the barrel and determine the Bending Modes of the barrel as well as the Natural Frequency of the barrel. I don't follow "vibrating the barrel in the sub-harmonic & peak harmonic areas" unless you mean frequencies as opposed to areas. How would you characterize a stable harmonic? Usually there is a 6 dB reduction in the harmonics of a fundamental. It's a decaying function so one cannot say there is a constant 6 dB reduction. This is from vibration (powertrain) and acoustic (interior sound, air induction and tailpipe) data.
Intuition tells me that there is some merit to what you speak of; I've just not delved into it. Thanks for sharing.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chui</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm curious as to your reference to "harmonic stress relief". Could you share, in general/generic terms, what it is you're referring to? Thanks in advance. </div></div>
We use a setup similar to a mill table that has a vibrating force inducer on it. On that there is a tool to measure the vibrations that are coming from the barrel. Its computer controled and it vibrates the barrel in the sub-harmonic and the peak harmonic areas and does it until the harmonics of the barrel become stable. </div></div>
I'm an NVH (Noise, Vibrations and Harshness) engineer by profession and I understand having a forcing function on one end of the barrel which I assume is held in a fixed-free condition, i.e., held at the chamber end with an accelerometer near the muzzle in the same plane as the forcing function. By doing an "impact test" one can observe the response of the barrel and determine the Bending Modes of the barrel as well as the Natural Frequency of the barrel. I don't follow "vibrating the barrel in the sub-harmonic & peak harmonic areas" unless you mean frequencies as opposed to areas. How would you characterize a stable harmonic? Usually there is a 6 dB reduction in the harmonics of a fundamental. It's a decaying function so one cannot say there is a constant 6 dB reduction. This is from vibration (powertrain) and acoustic (interior sound, air induction and tailpipe) data.
Intuition tells me that there is some merit to what you speak of; I've just not delved into it. Thanks for sharing.
Re: Cryogenic treatment
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GunsAreCool.com</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've always wondered if people would buy cryogenically treated everyday things, just to say they were cryogenically treated? Like pens, stainless steel coffee cups, staplers and such....
How's that for your weird marketing idea of the day? </div></div>
a guy around here did a batch of disposable razors. i hear they lasted quite a bit longer than non-cryo treated ones. </div></div>
Yes, that should work, too. I had some cheap razors that were cryo'd and they did last longer than the store bought cheap razors. Ultimately, it's a cost thing...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GunsAreCool.com</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've always wondered if people would buy cryogenically treated everyday things, just to say they were cryogenically treated? Like pens, stainless steel coffee cups, staplers and such....
How's that for your weird marketing idea of the day? </div></div>
a guy around here did a batch of disposable razors. i hear they lasted quite a bit longer than non-cryo treated ones. </div></div>
Yes, that should work, too. I had some cheap razors that were cryo'd and they did last longer than the store bought cheap razors. Ultimately, it's a cost thing...
Re: Cryogenic treatment
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chui</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't follow "vibrating the barrel in the sub-harmonic & peak harmonic areas" unless you mean frequencies as opposed to areas. How would you characterize a stable harmonic? </div></div>
What happens is you put so much power to the inducer. As it starts to get towards the peak harmonics it will start to vibrate a bit. Right before the harmonics run way up there is a good damping effect that happens to the barrel. It will resemble a bell curve on the transducer graph. That is the sub harmonic part of it. Then the computer raises the amplitude to max and runs it back down then repeats. This happens during the monitoring part of the process. It keeps doing this to check if the harmonics have stabilized or not.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chui</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't follow "vibrating the barrel in the sub-harmonic & peak harmonic areas" unless you mean frequencies as opposed to areas. How would you characterize a stable harmonic? </div></div>
What happens is you put so much power to the inducer. As it starts to get towards the peak harmonics it will start to vibrate a bit. Right before the harmonics run way up there is a good damping effect that happens to the barrel. It will resemble a bell curve on the transducer graph. That is the sub harmonic part of it. Then the computer raises the amplitude to max and runs it back down then repeats. This happens during the monitoring part of the process. It keeps doing this to check if the harmonics have stabilized or not.
Re: Cryogenic treatment
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chui</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't follow "vibrating the barrel in the sub-harmonic & peak harmonic areas" unless you mean frequencies as opposed to areas. How would you characterize a stable harmonic? </div></div>
What happens is you put so much power to the inducer. As it starts to get towards the peak harmonics it will start to vibrate a bit. Right before the harmonics run way up there is a good damping effect that happens to the barrel. It will resemble a bell curve on the transducer graph. That is the sub harmonic part of it. Then the computer raises the amplitude to max and runs it back down then repeats. This happens during the monitoring part of the process. It keeps doing this to check if the harmonics have stabilized or not. </div></div>
Ah, seems like you're running a sine sweep varying the amplitude of the inducer. As you approach the nautural frequency of the barrel you'll see a response on the accelerometer trace. If a component is well damped it will have a broad response (amplitude vs. frequency). By that I mean a 'fat' bell curve. If the component is poorly damped it will have a steep, narrow (or more so) bell curve.
So you are exciting the barrel within the accelerometer trace (first mode - which correlates to the natural frequency of the barrel to when the energy levels trail off PRIOR TO the first natural mode). Got it.
Very interesting. I'll research into this some more. I'm aware of a company in Michigan that used this method for race car parts. Brakes, connecting rods if my memory serves me correctly. At the time I was working with Ed Busch, the guy who pioneered and developed Deep Cryo 'Tempering' in Hazel Park, MI so I only made a note of the process but did not investigate. Now is as good a time as any.
Thanks again, bro!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chui</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't follow "vibrating the barrel in the sub-harmonic & peak harmonic areas" unless you mean frequencies as opposed to areas. How would you characterize a stable harmonic? </div></div>
What happens is you put so much power to the inducer. As it starts to get towards the peak harmonics it will start to vibrate a bit. Right before the harmonics run way up there is a good damping effect that happens to the barrel. It will resemble a bell curve on the transducer graph. That is the sub harmonic part of it. Then the computer raises the amplitude to max and runs it back down then repeats. This happens during the monitoring part of the process. It keeps doing this to check if the harmonics have stabilized or not. </div></div>
Ah, seems like you're running a sine sweep varying the amplitude of the inducer. As you approach the nautural frequency of the barrel you'll see a response on the accelerometer trace. If a component is well damped it will have a broad response (amplitude vs. frequency). By that I mean a 'fat' bell curve. If the component is poorly damped it will have a steep, narrow (or more so) bell curve.
So you are exciting the barrel within the accelerometer trace (first mode - which correlates to the natural frequency of the barrel to when the energy levels trail off PRIOR TO the first natural mode). Got it.
Very interesting. I'll research into this some more. I'm aware of a company in Michigan that used this method for race car parts. Brakes, connecting rods if my memory serves me correctly. At the time I was working with Ed Busch, the guy who pioneered and developed Deep Cryo 'Tempering' in Hazel Park, MI so I only made a note of the process but did not investigate. Now is as good a time as any.
Thanks again, bro!!
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