• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

CT elementary school shooting.

Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I want to hear input on this from our forum members who live offshore and do not have Second Amendment protections for their gun ownership rights.

Are we doing this wrong? How can we do better? Does what you have and don't have make you any better off than we are?

Greg </div></div>

My wife's family is all english. Their point of view is that we need a revamped mental health care system.

I don't know if it's been posted yet but has anybody read this?

http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

Reading through some posts on another forum there was a post from a physician. He was saying how numerous friends and colleagues in the medical and mental health profession didn't first ask how someone could do something so horrific, they asked what medications this person was on or had he been prescribed.

The link posted by Sir is very imformative and bolsters the questions asked by these DR's.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

That link should be required reading for all our public officials; and that's just for starters.

I sincerely hope we have more input here in this regard, as well as more related to the foreign viewpoint.

 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are we doing this wrong? How can we do better? Does what you have and don't have make you any better off than we are?</div></div>

Yes, you are discussing whether or not guns are the problem. They are not.

Stop discussing that guns are the problem and start addressing real problem (lack of morals, values, instant gratification, dog eat dog mentality, free lunches for everyone, communism, socialism and above all stop destroying a base of any society - family unit).

Gun control is irrelevant we may be better off (for now) only because ideas coming or being exported from US are new and have no history here but in a few years if we go the same route as now we're in the same shitter as you are now.

Lets cut the bull shall we? A lot of people on this board know exactly what the problems are, the cause of it and the needed solution but most of it is either forbidden to be discussed here or to complex to solve by few individuals (when right circumstances arise and enough percentages appear in population things will start to move but until that happens events such as this will happen) or simple typing over the net. And while there is much suffering in US currently don't forget that this (cruel as it may be) is for some folks on this planet business as usual and not uncommon occurrence.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

Great point Sharac

while this is an absolute tragedy here in the America, in A LOT other places in the world this is business as usual.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SirDrinksAlot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My wife's family is all english. Their point of view is that we need a revamped mental health care system.

I don't know if it's been posted yet but has anybody read this?

http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html </div></div>

EXCELLENT READING!
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SirDrinksAlot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know if it's been posted yet but has anybody read this?

http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html </div></div>

I read this article this morning, and have been forwarding it to friends every since.

I don't profess to have any answers to the problem of mental health care in the US, but we have a lot of work to do here. It's perfectly acceptable to spend substantial time and money talking about erectile dysfunction, but mental issues are still taboo. Until that is resolved, I fear that we will be unable to make any progress.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

In austria every person who wants to get a semi auto rifle or a handgun needs to undergo a mental test. the guns then need to be locked up in a safe, and the police will come and see your guns every 5 years.
this test doesnt help much, because with this test you can sort out a dumb maniac, but an intelligent maniac wont be detected, as long as he doesnt tell the truth in the test, and knows what he should say, and what is common sense.

we have, every year around christmas, "family tradgedies" all over europe, mostly with illegal guns or knives from people that went insane.

with obligatory locked up guns you can prevent occasional theft, but some lunatic that really wants to, would be abled to get the key or cut the safe open anyways. He could take a big knive or brew some explosives at home.

just look at the school shooting in winnenden in germany where gun laws are very strict, where a boy that was bullied freaked out with the gun of his father. eventually he managed to get a hold of a gun when his father forgot one outside the safe. the problem here was not the gun of the fahther but the bullied boy who was treated like shit in school day after day, and eventually comitted suicide and retaliated before that.


another example:
a friend of mine for example has gotten shizophrenic in his late 20s and he had a hunting rifle that i had sold to him some years before that. till that time he was a intelligent guy with no mental problems.
after i knew about his condition i gave him back the money and got the gun from him back with his consent.
so even though we have strong gun controle and mental tests it still it is up to friends and relatives to act responsible.

he is still in bad condition, and refuses to take medicin and refuses to recognize his problem.
Although he has no more guns, he could steal them from some of his relatives, i know his father and uncle have some, or from me easily. he could buy one on the black market with a bit of trying. he could steel them from centralized places (shooting clubs) or the unmanned police staion at night. Even though he doesnt have a gun himself he could easily get one , just like the shooter in newtown did.


the doctors should be abled to force him to take his pills and stay in hospital untill he is sane again.
but that doesnt happen
he was released although he was not taking his pills, and there is nothing we can do
<span style="font-weight: bold">we have to rely on him that he doesnt freak out.</span>

if it is not possible to prevent these shootings to happen in countries with strong gun controle in place and relative few guns around , it will never be possible to stop these things from happening by gun controle means in the US where guns are much more plentiful anyways.

we have to look at the real cause of the problem:
bullying in schools and problems with parents and teachers
no proper education of children
mental illnesses untreated

especially for boys and young men the educational system is not suited, its girls behaviour that is encouraged, boys are left out.
beeing wild , running around etc is bad behaviour.
physical violence to sort out problems among boys is not allowed any more, but psychological cruelties are tolerated.
boys very often dont know how to behave as a man properly any more, as many grow up without fathers, and only female teachers.
no wonder that some freak out eventually and turn into maniacs.









 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I want to hear input on this from our forum members who live offshore and do not have Second Amendment protections for their gun ownership rights.

Are we doing this wrong? How can we do better? Does what you have and don't have make you any better off than we are?

Greg </div></div>

As a Brit i will give you my thoughts. I respect your 2A rights and admire your desire to protect your rights. Having said that in the UK there is no 2A. In the last 20-yrs we have lost the right to handguns and semi-auto high power assault rifles both coming on the back of tragic massacres. Yes we have lost a lot but i can honestly say there are virtually no mass murder type crimes in the UK. I think many lives have been saved, although i can't prove it and i would give up those rights again given a free choice. I honestly believe the kids and parents killed in the two worst UK cases went to their graves knowing others have been saved.

To get a shotgun/rifle licence in the UK the police first seek approval and guidance from our local doctor (the benefit of the NHS). We are interviewed in our home by the equiv of SWAT type officers and we have to provide several rigorous references from responsible citizens ie lawyer, doctor, Member of Parliament or Local Council etc. Ultimately, the police manage the process and cant deny unless there is good reason. Our firearms have to be stored in approved safes when not in use. Yes this is a pain but i think it works and ensure responsible ownership.

The one key difference vs the US is you guys have a massive crime problem and a huge illegal gun ownership. Who protects thr good guys when they give up their guns ? The UK never had that problem and i would suggest you have to aggressively take illegal firearms out of circulation before you tackle the legal market. Illegal guns kill more and without them around the arguments for legal defensive ownership diminish.

Ultimately, we didnt get a choice when our guns were taken....i hate to admit it but i am fine with that outcome. Lives have been saved and our society is better off for it. I still get to own firearms, just not all the ones i want.

It isnt't going to he easy to change but i hope you get the outcome you deserve.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

I am glad for your responses. Please keep them coming, this info and opinion is valuable to all of us. I am not seeking to argue any of these points, and I'd personally prefer that didn't happen. I believe that would be counterproductive to the purpose of my request.

Greg
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gZn-Pq38B_Y"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gZn-Pq38B_Y" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.


To me, our friends abroad offer experiences we can learn much from. Simply, I have to concede there are too many nuts among us for us to continue enjoying the current level of open transfers and ownership such as trading guns out at the duck camp with no record, for example.

Okay. What do we do now? Continue exchanging ideas? Suit up and show up?

Exchanging ideas here we are participating in the national debate. But I need some ideas of how to more fully and meaningfully participate and affect the outcome.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I want to hear input on this from our forum members who live offshore and do not have Second Amendment protections for their gun ownership rights.

Are we doing this wrong? How can we do better? Does what you have and don't have make you any better off than we are?

Greg </div></div>

As a Brit i will give you my thoughts. I respect your 2A rights and admire your desire to protect your rights. Having said that in the UK there is no 2A. In the last 20-yrs we have lost the right to handguns and semi-auto high power assault rifles both coming on the back of tragic massacres. Yes we have lost a lot but i can honestly say there are virtually no mass murder type crimes in the UK. I think many lives have been saved, although i can't prove it and i would give up those rights again given a free choice. I honestly believe the kids and parents killed in the two worst UK cases went to their graves knowing others have been saved.

To get a shotgun/rifle licence in the UK the police first seek approval and guidance from our local doctor (the benefit of the NHS). We are interviewed in our home by the equiv of SWAT type officers and we have to provide several rigorous references from responsible citizens ie lawyer, doctor, Member of Parliament or Local Council etc. Ultimately, the police manage the process and cant deny unless there is good reason. Our firearms have to be stored in approved safes when not in use. Yes this is a pain but i think it works and ensure responsible ownership.

The one key difference vs the US is you guys have a massive crime problem and a huge illegal gun ownership. Who protects thr good guys when they give up their guns ? The UK never had that problem and i would suggest you have to aggressively take illegal firearms out of circulation before you tackle the legal market. Illegal guns kill more and without them around the arguments for legal defensive ownership diminish.

Ultimately, we didnt get a choice when our guns were taken....i hate to admit it but i am fine with that outcome. Lives have been saved and our society is better off for it. I still get to own firearms, just not all the ones i want.

It isnt't going to he easy to change but i hope you get the outcome you deserve.

</div></div>

i can apreciate your opinion but we have a HUGE factor playing into this you guys over there don't. its a little country called mexico, which imports drugs by the ton into the US and would just as easily switch to assault rifles of the full auto variety.

we already in california have to do transfers at a FFL, its a pain but I wouldn't have HUGE heartburn if that was the case nationwide. Illegal guns or stolen guns will always be a problem. Keeping your guns in a good safe is and should be what everyone does who is a responsible gun owner. I do it not only because i have small children but because its a very large monetary investment that is portable and can be carried away easily if not locked up.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A tighter gun control is what the plan is. How is this going to solve anything? </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are we doing this wrong? How can we do better?</div></div>


The two quotes above are inexorably linked, and yet through more than 5 decades of brainwashing most folks don't understand the link.

How is tighter gun control solving something? Tighter gun control very definitely solves something. As for 'are we doing this wrong?' - it is such a naive question .... of course we are - but it has NOTHING to do with firearms.

Rhetorical question - was LBJ's <span style="font-style: italic">Great Society Program</span> (and every iteration thereof from then to now) really about what it purported to be on face? If so, why has it not 'worked'? Consider that it has worked. Just not the way it was presented to the public.

Who doesn't understand that the nature of government - any government - is the expansion of power? Do you think it would behoove government to enact policy that promotes such intent, yet is presented to the public as something altogether different? Have Americans become more or less reliant on government over the last 5 decades? What does the current trajectory look like - becoming more or less dependent?

Consider that high capacity weapons have been around for more than 5 decades, yet the use of them in mass attacks is a relatively new phenom - esp against children. What has changed? Firearms or our culture? Remember our example above - the true 'purpose' of <span style="font-style: italic">The Great Society</span>? Consider the cumulative changes on our culture for the last 5 decades - does anyone really not think they were fostered in support of an ulterior motive?

When only criminals shall possess firearms, the only question left is - will you be a criminal? You do your thing, I'll do mine.


Good luck
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yes, you are discussing whether or not guns are the problem. They are not.

Stop discussing that guns are the problem and start addressing real problem (lack of morals, values, instant gratification, dog eat dog mentality, free lunches for everyone, communism, socialism and above all stop destroying a base of any society - family unit).

Gun control is irrelevant we may be better off (for now) only because ideas coming or being exported from US are new and have no history here but in a few years if we go the same route as now we're in the same shitter as you are now.

Lets cut the bull shall we? A lot of people on this board know exactly what the problems are, the cause of it and the needed solution but most of it is either forbidden to be discussed here or to complex to solve by few individuals (when right circumstances arise and enough percentages appear in population things will start to move but until that happens events such as this will happen) or simple typing over the net. And while there is much suffering in US currently don't forget that this (cruel as it may be) is for some folks on this planet business as usual and not uncommon occurrence. </div></div>

AMEN.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
To me, our friends abroad offer experiences we can learn much from. Simply, I have to concede there are too many nuts among us for us to continue enjoying the current level of open transfers and ownership such as trading guns out at the duck camp with no record, for example.

Okay. What do we do now? Continue exchanging ideas? Suit up and show up?

Exchanging ideas here we are participating in the national debate. But I need some ideas of how to more fully and meaningfully participate and affect the outcome.

</div></div>

I believe the second amendment exists to prevent tyranny from the federal government. As such I will never support any registration, restrictions on private transfer, or confiscation, period.

This killing of innocents was a tragedy, no doubt. However, it would be an even greater tragedy to forget the hundreds of thousands who have died to first secure and then defend our rights. I will not forget them. I will not dishonor them by allowing a madman to undo even one iota of what the sacrifice of these patriots have secured for us.

I don't give a damn what other countries do about guns. That is their business. Our Constitution and liberty is my business. I won't give it up without a fight for any reason.

Gird yourselves people. Greater sorrow than even this was borne by past generations for your inheritance. You know damn well already another gun regulation wouldnt prevent this evil but a good armed man or woman could have.

You think twenty innocents is bad? Take a browse through history at the fate of disarmed people groups. When Franklin lectured us about the false choice between liberty and security, moments like this, right now, were what he was talking about. You patriots out there, it's time to lead.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
To me, our friends abroad offer experiences we can learn much from. Simply, I have to concede there are too many nuts among us for us to continue enjoying the current level of open transfers and ownership such as trading guns out at the duck camp with no record, for example.

Okay. What do we do now? Continue exchanging ideas? Suit up and show up?

Exchanging ideas here we are participating in the national debate. But I need some ideas of how to more fully and meaningfully participate and affect the outcome.

</div></div>

I believe the second amendment exists to prevent tyranny from the federal government. As such I will never support any registration, restrictions on private transfer, or confiscation, period.

This killing of innocents was a tragedy, no doubt. However, it would be an even greater tragedy to forget the hundreds of thousands who have died to first secure and then defend our rights. I will not forget them. I will not dishonor them by allowing a madman to undo even one iota of what the sacrifice of these patriots have secured for us.

I don't give a damn what other countries do about guns. That is their business. Our Constitution and liberty is my business. I won't give it up without a fight for any reason.

Gird yourselves people. Greater sorrow than even this was borne by past generations for your inheritance. You know damn well already another gun regulation wouldnt prevent this evil but a good armed man or woman could have.

You think twenty innocents is bad? Take a browse through history at the fate of disarmed people groups. When Franklin lectured us about the false choice between liberty and security, moments like this, right now, were what he was talking about. You patriots out there, it's time to lead.


</div></div>

Great post KY, well said.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharac</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are we doing this wrong? How can we do better? Does what you have and don't have make you any better off than we are?</div></div>

Yes, you are discussing whether or not guns are the problem. They are not.

Stop discussing that guns are the problem and start addressing real problem (lack of morals, values, instant gratification, dog eat dog mentality, free lunches for everyone, communism, socialism and above all stop destroying a base of any society - family unit).

Gun control is irrelevant we may be better off (for now) only because ideas coming or being exported from US are new and have no history here but in a few years if we go the same route as now we're in the same shitter as you are now.

Lets cut the bull shall we? A lot of people on this board know exactly what the problems are, the cause of it and the needed solution but most of it is either forbidden to be discussed here or to complex to solve by few individuals (when right circumstances arise and enough percentages appear in population things will start to move but until that happens events such as this will happen) or simple typing over the net. And while there is much suffering in US currently don't forget that this (cruel as it may be) is for some folks on this planet business as usual and not uncommon occurrence. </div></div>

Agreed, a lack of repercussions. I would also add/tie in the lack of religious values. Atheism provides NO repercussions for actions as we saw. After all, if you suck start a pistol after shooting a bunch of people what is anybody going to do to you? What repercussions are there as a Godless person?

Just my .02
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Intrepid4576</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gZn-Pq38B_Y"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gZn-Pq38B_Y" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object> </div></div>

That was worth watching. Thanks
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
To me, our friends abroad offer experiences we can learn much from. Simply, I have to concede there are too many nuts among us for us to continue enjoying the current level of open transfers and ownership such as trading guns out at the duck camp with no record, for example.

Okay. What do we do now? Continue exchanging ideas? Suit up and show up?

Exchanging ideas here we are participating in the national debate. But I need some ideas of how to more fully and meaningfully participate and affect the outcome.

</div></div>

I believe the second amendment exists to prevent tyranny from the federal government. As such I will never support any registration, restrictions on private transfer, or confiscation, period.

This killing of innocents was a tragedy, no doubt. However, it would be an even greater tragedy to forget the hundreds of thousands who have died to first secure and then defend our rights. I will not forget them. I will not dishonor them by allowing a madman to undo even one iota of what the sacrifice of these patriots have secured for us.

I don't give a damn what other countries do about guns. That is their business. Our Constitution and liberty is my business. I won't give it up without a fight for any reason.

Gird yourselves people. Greater sorrow than even this was borne by past generations for your inheritance. You know damn well already another gun regulation wouldnt prevent this evil but a good armed man or woman could have.

You think twenty innocents is bad? Take a browse through history at the fate of disarmed people groups. When Franklin lectured us about the false choice between liberty and security, moments like this, right now, were what he was talking about. You patriots out there, it's time to lead.


</div></div>

Apparently we think alike and have not forgotten where these words come from:

"Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

as well as what they mean, stand for, and what has been sacrficed to protect them!
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.


Prevent tyranny? That is the most archaic argument around. You are already under the control and dominion of the government. Groceries, fuel, consumer goods never get cheaper appreciably because business has the protection of Congress, and if Congress wanted, when push came to shove, attack its citizens you really believe your small arms fire will be affective. Oh my goodness. Please smell the coffee. You're getting screwed and you don't even know it. Study up. Begin with the topic of The Rothschilds.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

To TJ from Britain. I don't want this to go into anything bad but have you checked your facts?

Quote from you. "The one key difference vs the US is you guys have a massive crime problem"

All the crime statistics I find on UK says it has a big crime problem, maybe not with fire arms but its there. In some cases it exceeds the US by a good margin. For instance crimes related to drug offenses were 326 times higher than US drug offenses. Assault victims 133% higher than US. Rape 125% higher than US. I can go on and on with statistics. Are they perfect no they leave allot of holes that just can't be possible filled in. The crime might also be higher here or seem higher because our population is almost 5 times what Great Britain is.

I have also had people I know from UK that have been stuck up and robbed on the streets from someone with a knife on more than one occasion.

My point is not to start something its to point that there is still a bit of crime there and yes there are very very low gun rate crimes in fact the US is ranked 668 times higher in gun crimes than Britain but that comes from the lack of guns.

Evil will find a way and bad people will do bad things does not matter if its with a gun or not.


The thing that most don't see about the 2nd amendment is its there so the government does not get too comfortable and therefore even more corrupt than it is. Of course this is not the only reason and also so we have the right to protect our selves. I have the right to defend myself weather its a Metal pipe, knife, hatchet, gun, or even what people are calling assault rifles which mine are not by definition as they are not selective fire. How about some famous quotes.

Isoroku Yamamoto:

"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass."

Japan was afraid at least a little bit of invading cause of the huge ownership of guns in America. Now lets see who is trying to take our guns away? The Government... An unarmed population is a less threatening one to the gov.

Or how about the famous Hitler quote.


“This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!” - Adolph Hitler, 1935, on The Weapons Act of Nazi Germany

Well in case someone didn't know he turned out to be a freaking lunatic...

The problem is not gun control or gun bans and never will be. I applaud if another country is okay with losing guns even if it never was their right but in OUR country, IT IS OUR RIGHT. To infringe on our right to bare arms IS treason or to try and get rid of or change the 2nd amendment.

There is no easy way to fix the illegal gun problem in America but banning or heavily restricting what the legal population can have is not going to fix anything.

Just like drugs all the illegal ones we still have problems with and its a never ending battle with other people making them and or smuggling them in.

The only thing necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

Now that I have said allot, probably made some people mad, and got my own satellite over my house tracking my IP I am off.

 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #FF0000">Prevent tyranny? That is the most archaic argument around. </span> You are already under the control and dominion of the government. Groceries, fuel, consumer goods never get cheaper appreciably because business has the protection of Congress, and if Congress wanted, when push came to shove, attack its citizens you really believe your small arms fire will be affective. Oh my goodness. Please smell the coffee. You're getting screwed and you don't even know it. Study up. Begin with the topic of The Rothschilds. </div></div>

Funny the first bit in your sentence is exactly what the anti gun people are using to try and ban guns. Saying that the 2nd amendment is old and outdated... and therefore not needed anymore, in which case there is no need for any gun that is used by military or police putting us to Shotguns and bolt actions only.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharac</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are we doing this wrong? How can we do better? Does what you have and don't have make you any better off than we are?</div></div>

Yes, you are discussing whether or not guns are the problem. They are not.

Stop discussing that guns are the problem and start addressing real problem (lack of morals, values, instant gratification, dog eat dog mentality, free lunches for everyone, communism, socialism and above all stop destroying a base of any society - family unit).

Gun control is irrelevant we may be better off (for now) only because ideas coming or being exported from US are new and have no history here but in a few years if we go the same route as now we're in the same shitter as you are now.

Lets cut the bull shall we? A lot of people on this board know exactly what the problems are, the cause of it and the needed solution but most of it is either forbidden to be discussed here or to complex to solve by few individuals (when right circumstances arise and enough percentages appear in population things will start to move but until that happens events such as this will happen) or simple typing over the net. And while there is much suffering in US currently don't forget that this (cruel as it may be) is for some folks on this planet business as usual and not uncommon occurrence. </div></div>

Agreed, a lack of repercussions. I would also add/tie in the lack of religious values. Atheism provides NO repercussions for actions as we saw. After all, if you suck start a pistol after shooting a bunch of people what is anybody going to do to you? What repercussions are there as a Godless person?

Just my .02 </div></div>

Generally, Religion has and does provide more motives for death.
Morality or morals are key;
“Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character”
Those are only provided by whom one looks up to, or the upbringing to establish character. Or whatever post medium provides new security or outlet. Religion is and is-not a common denominator. It is not a morality common demoninator.

I had a real tear for what happened. Also a substance of guilt as firearms are a fiber of my being. Even remotely, to try to absorb the situation is quite difficult. Understanding; none.

In the CT case, there was some wrong wiring. Mechanically, I can’t see how the mother (Nancy I believe), gets nice editorial pieces on grabbing take out and wine with nice chit-chat. Nothing of this nature is ever spontaneous. To the mental aspect, there is the most blindness with the ones you love or pity most. There is also responsibility and it is difficult to not fault the woman without ever knowing her.

In related response to gun control. : To take something simple home or broadcast to the masses; <span style="font-weight: bold">secure your hardware and prohibit any unauthorized access when not in use</span>.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

US pop according to census approx 315,000,000

2011 murder victims in US according to FBI approx 12,700, an average of 34 a day, by all methods, each a tradgedy to someone no doubt, declining annually.

Roughly .004% of the population was murdered in 2011.

Surely that number could be lower, but it will never be all zeros, believe it or not, if we dial back the emotion, what we're doing is not working all that bad. No doubt some things could be done better, but should we really jump to further restrictions on liberties and rights?

http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cri...de-data-table-8
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Prevent tyranny? That is the most archaic argument around. You are already under the control and dominion of the government. Groceries, fuel, consumer goods never get cheaper appreciably because business has the protection of Congress, and if Congress wanted, when push came to shove, attack its citizens you really believe your small arms fire will be affective. Oh my goodness. Please smell the coffee. You're getting screwed and you don't even know it. Study up. Begin with the topic of The Rothschilds.</div></div>

You know why it is the most archaic argument around? It is because that is the fucking purpose of the 2nd Amendment. You are a fool and an embarrassment to this entire community. You may be under the control and dominion of the government, but I am not. Please peddle your bull shit elsewhere.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

there are always going to be upgrades of weapons. funny the second does not say right to bear arms except....
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I want to hear input on this from our forum members who live offshore and do not have Second Amendment protections for their gun ownership rights.

Are we doing this wrong? How can we do better? Does what you have and don't have make you any better off than we are?

Greg </div></div>

As a Brit i will give you my thoughts. I respect your 2A rights and admire your desire to protect your rights. Having said that in the UK there is no 2A. In the last 20-yrs we have lost the right to handguns and semi-auto high power assault rifles both coming on the back of tragic massacres. Yes we have lost a lot but i can honestly say there are virtually no mass murder type crimes in the UK. I think many lives have been saved, although i can't prove it and i would give up those rights again given a free choice. I honestly believe the kids and parents killed in the two worst UK cases went to their graves knowing others have been saved.

To get a shotgun/rifle licence in the UK the police first seek approval and guidance from our local doctor (the benefit of the NHS). We are interviewed in our home by the equiv of SWAT type officers and we have to provide several rigorous references from responsible citizens ie lawyer, doctor, Member of Parliament or Local Council etc. Ultimately, the police manage the process and cant deny unless there is good reason. Our firearms have to be stored in approved safes when not in use. Yes this is a pain but i think it works and ensure responsible ownership.

The one key difference vs the US is you guys have a massive crime problem and a huge illegal gun ownership. Who protects thr good guys when they give up their guns ? The UK never had that problem and i would suggest you have to aggressively take illegal firearms out of circulation before you tackle the legal market. Illegal guns kill more and without them around the arguments for legal defensive ownership diminish.

Ultimately, we didnt get a choice when our guns were taken....i hate to admit it but i am fine with that outcome. Lives have been saved and our society is better off for it. I still get to own firearms, just not all the ones i want.

It isnt't going to he easy to change but i hope you get the outcome you deserve.

</div></div>

i can apreciate your opinion but we have a HUGE factor playing into this you guys over there don't. its a little country called mexico, which imports drugs by the ton into the US and would just as easily switch to assault rifles of the full auto variety.

we already in california have to do transfers at a FFL, its a pain but I wouldn't have HUGE heartburn if that was the case nationwide. Illegal guns or stolen guns will always be a problem. Keeping your guns in a good safe is and should be what everyone does who is a responsible gun owner. I do it not only because i have small children but because its a very large monetary investment that is portable and can be carried away easily if not locked up.

</div></div>

And we have the French
laugh.gif


Mexico is another issue and it is about the Federal govt stepping up and doing more. I think they can ask for more gun control but they have to give something back, something that ensures your security, protection and helps justify what they are taking away. Two months ago a nutcase in the UK decided to commit a mass crime...he didn't have a gun so he drove his car around a city trying to kill people (he succeeded with a couple). A nutcase is a nutcase and govts shouldn't react by taking everything from everyone. There is a middle ground.

Looking at is another way the US has over 9 deaths from firearm related incidents per 100,000 vs 0.25 for the UK, a multiple of almost 37 times !!!

Here is the much trotted out list of US school shootings. It is horrendous and has to stop. There is nothing like it elsewhere in the world and it has to stop. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

It has become so common and so shocking that it has become aspirational to the head cases out there. They are trying to do it with more violence and more carnage than the guy before them. It has almost become a competition and there will be copycat attacks. Someone somewhere has just learnt or understood something from this tragedy and is probably thinking they too can be famous.

I for one think every retiring member of the US Armed Services should have to spend a few months guarding a local school upon leaving the service. It can be done via concealed carry with training (and post a military doctor review board) and they can become productive members of the schoools...the best and brightest can help in the classroom whilst others can help on the sports-field and perhaps that will also help with the childhood obesity problem. It will be a chance for kids to meet servicemen & women, a chance to hear what they can do for their country when they grow up and for the retiring service member to make a productive transition back to civilian life. It avoids putting cops in uniform in school but adds a simple, experienced and trained layer of protection - it becomes a deterrent to this chicken shits.

As I say, we don't have this or gun violence in schools in the UK and it isn't just the lack of assault rifles that stops this...we can have a semi auto shotgun with extended mag so the firepower is there but the controls on who gets the firepower exist and usually work.

Ultimately, you have to decide what you are preapred to pay or give-up to protect your children...doing nothing is no longer an option.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You may be under the control and dominion of the government, but I am not. Please peddle your bull shit elsewhere.</div></div>

Quit paying your taxes, try to sell some raw milk, build a still and start selling your own hooch and get back to us on that.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

What a stupid post.

Do you think that the combined police and military of this country can control 100 million armed citizens? You uniformed guys would have to hide on base and never go out because yo would just be targets.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Prevent tyranny? That is the most archaic argument around. You are already under the control and dominion of the government. Groceries, fuel, consumer goods never get cheaper appreciably because business has the protection of Congress, and if Congress wanted, when push came to shove, attack its citizens you really believe your small arms fire will be affective. Oh my goodness. Please smell the coffee. You're getting screwed and you don't even know it. Study up. Begin with the topic of The Rothschilds. </div></div>
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Prevent tyranny? That is the most archaic argument around. You are already under the control and dominion of the government. </div></div>

You clearly lack a basic understanding of the origins of "gun control" laws, let alone the historical basis for 2nd Amendment protections.

Perhaps you might revisit the Federalist Papers for some actual knowledge, your post is beyond embarrassing.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

Casey, please decline any and all media contact in your lifetime. Even here, there's so many that just do not get it. Sad.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

I've thought about this a lot lately, from two specific angles. Honestly, I believe each are of equal importance.

1. How can we reduce the number of innocent deaths caused by crazy people (by use of bomb, car, blade, poison, or gun)?

2. How do we retain as much freedom as we can possibly hold? By this I mean, give up nothing in our rights to protect our families and ourselves the way we see fit.

The conclusion I've come to is this: Currently, we as reasonable people do not frame the argument.

We know full well no law, or series of laws will prevent national tragedies like this. But, the side of personal rights has to begin to frame the argument based on thoughtful solutions to the problem at hand: people killing other people. And we have to do so in a way that evokes more emotion. You will never convince anyone of anything with facts alone, and thats the first thing we normally jump to. Facts.

Those who wish to restrict or prohibit gun ownership have framed the argument. Right now everyone on television news is debating the balance of freedom to mass shootings. And thats the argument they want, because if thats the choice, most of the people in this country are going to vote to reduce freedom because they believe it reduce mass shootings. We know thats not the case, but how do we combat it?

We have to re-frame the argument. And to re-frame the argument, we have to bring a solid solution to the table. And, lastly, to come up with a solution, we have to address the root of the issue. If you want to cut down a tree, you have to take it out at the trunk. You can cut a limb or two off, but thats not going to kill the tree, only cause it to grow more limbs.

So, whats the root of the issue? I'm not sure. But most likely its the social outlook among so many of these people that leads them to disregard life entirely. I believe this is pure evil. In a society like ours, there are many outlets for evil, and some people soak it up. Add in a mental health issue, and its a deadly combination.

So, how can we come up with a solution for evil? I have no idea. But we need to find one. Without it, our rights will be constrained eventually. Even here, on a site filled with those who daily fight for our constitution and the rights it recognizes, we see those who are ready to give up some of those rights for safety. If we see that here, imagine how many guys that only have a shotgun for the occasional bird hunt will vote.

Most of all, we can’t face someone who says “We need to keep you from buying semi-auto weapons so fewer children will die,” and reply “guns don’t kill people, people kill people.” In that statement, they are providing a solution to a large group of people who “must do something,” even if they don’t really believe it will change much. They’ve framed the argument, and its for the kids. Unless we can re-frame it for the kids, we’ve got problems. We can argue the state of countries after severe gun control, but thats distanced from most people, and its factual. Kids are close and emotional.

So the big question is, how do we frame an argument that is both full of empathy for the situation at hand (because every mass murder is detestable and incredibly sad), and contains a solution that is rock solid in facts?

Addressing the tools and ignoring the evil will only allow evil more victims.

Whatever that debate is, I’ve learned that I can’t just pound my chest screaming “IT’S MY RIGHT!”
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Prevent tyranny? That is the most archaic argument around. You are already under the control and dominion of the government. </div></div>

You clearly lack a basic understanding of the origins of "gun control" laws, let alone the historical basis for 2nd Amendment protections.

Perhaps you might revisit the Federalist Papers for some actual knowledge, your post is beyond embarrassing. </div></div>


Bear in mind that this is the same person who equated carrying a gun to being a scared little boy. He's our snake in the grass, every forum has one. That being said, I understand what he's getting at and to some degree he's right at least in terms of how bastardized our constitution has become but he's preaching to the wrong audience, that kind of vernacular belongs on MSNBC.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

During this national debate about school murders we must steadfastly abstain from falsehood. Mental health must be at the core of this debate as much as strict enforcement of gun laws. Mental suffering ignored and untreated is the root issue and when we attend to this others will also be helped, alleviating huge amounts of suffering and government spending; the addicts and alcoholics.

P.S. As to whether the gov is in control of us, and who wins: Remember. The gov has the nukes, nitwit. This kind of short-sighted thinking is why some need others.

Try and write this stuff as if a gun control nut will read it to the Senate Committee in an open hearing. Mind your manners and your brain.

I'm not a mole. I'm merely expressing the hard stuff; what some of us don't want to hear. Truth hurts the ego often. Either we can participate in the debate, compromise, and preserve liberty, or refuse while they decide for us what our liberties will be, if any.

Highbender, I'm not your snake, I'm your hero. Negotiating and advocating is my livelihood. I can see where an argument is going way before most and way before it gets there.

 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Prevent tyranny? That is the most archaic argument around. You are already under the control and dominion of the government. </div></div>

You clearly lack a basic understanding of the origins of "gun control" laws, let alone the historical basis for 2nd Amendment protections.

Perhaps you might revisit the Federalist Papers for some actual knowledge, your post is beyond embarrassing. </div></div>

Actually he does have a point.
If it came down to it, if it really did, the gov would win and they are doing it little by little...

Patriot Act, prime example - they suspect you but can't charge you - off to prison with you...

Was the 2nd amendment put to prevent that? Yes, try organizing a militia and see how far you get, the FBI will have every member documented and watched.
Even Martin Luther King had a dossier with the FBI because they feared he was causing civil unrest.

The gov owns you, you just don't know it.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

Praise Jesus, Arcticlight.

Yes, that's all I'm getting at, but you expressed it clearer.

Study current events, i.e.; Egypt.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Highbender, I'm not your snake, I'm your hero. Negotiating and advocating is my livelihood. I can see where an argument is going way before most and way before it gets there.

</div></div>


Casay your self-promotion aside, you were never able to articulate yourself out of the "scared little boy" moniker you bestowed upon this community a few weeks back which is where you earned your snake in the grass label. However, like I said above you do make some valid points but your good points in are usually cloaked under a guise of PC bullshit so they often go unnoticed if not completely ignored. I pick up on them because we see eye to eye on some points (gov't can kick our asses/Rothchilds/etc.) you've made but by and large your delivery is way off the mark (which is really my whole point here). That being said, if you're our "hero" we're fucked.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

Keep it real. Conserve server space.

(If the post isn't pertinent to the thread pm it?)

Highbender, check your pm.

Also, everyone, read Bunny Blaster above. Then read his post again, and again, and again until you get it. We have to re-frame the debate, and take it to them. On the offensive. Wait to defend and your ass is kicked.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Quit paying your taxes, try to sell some raw milk, build a still and start selling your own hooch and get back to us on that.</div></div>

Taxes? You mean tractor buying time? Why would I want to sell milk and hooch?
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Negotiating and advocating is my livelihood. I can see where an argument is going way before most and way before it gets there. </div></div>

commander-mcbragg.jpg
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

This event should force the US to look at actually putting in place REAL measures to minimise these types of events from happening in the future .

BUT as Politicians are usually BS artists , I expect them to go OFF at a tangent & put up another Ban or restriction that will basically effect only the Law abiding & responsible gun commmuntiy , BAN & maknig stuff illegal does not control or stop it , just look at the drug problem .

Making some thing Illegal , only controls it for the good law abiding people , IT has no effect on the Lawless , this is something all the Politicians seem in capable of understnading , as such does not control the bad people at all , what effects bad people are ONLY actions , like arming the good sheep / people , and putting maybe the death penilty in place .

IE they will put back in place the Assault Weapon ban etc , Opps costs them nothing to do in costs & appears to address the issue , it will not as we all know , IF it did , I would expect that in the time it was in place for there to have been ZERO high school shootings in those yrs , Opps .

The main Law that keeping making these shootings possible is the law that made it illegal to have ANY gun in school grounds , Opps all that meant was you have know legally disarmed all the good people at school that could maybe prevent the incident , ie the teachers etc .

By disarming all the good guys at school , you just made the target easier & safier for the mass murderer , NOT harder .

Its as IF no one wants to really fix the problem Properly , they just want to look like they are fixing IT , we need to in simple terms actually effect/restrict/isolate the bad people and empower the GOOD people , NOT mainly effect the GOOD people in a negiative way .

GovT must actually do the job right , rather than being lead by rich lawyers & Judges , move away from points of law & move to principles of Law .

Move away from blaming the evil acts of men on tools ,and blme men for thier actions , I know that the Lawyers will not like that as they will make less money , but they have twisted real justice into injustice .

They should not put any Bans in place as they have been proven not to work in theory or practice .

They should remove the ban on All guns on school grounds , and allow teachers that have CCW to do so , and pay them a little extra to do so , empower the good people .

And IF they still feel the need to JUMP on the gun owners do it in a correct manner , ie make having a gun licence a better vetted system , in NZ to have a gun licence you have to do basic gunnskill test & pass a criminal back ground check , one would think that is obvoius , and it is , however in NZ we also have to have 2 reference people , one a family member & one non-family member , both these people are talked to in lenght by the vetting officer , to see if he can see any thing WRONG , so its not soley based on passing a test & having a clean record , they talk to people you know to get an idea of what sort of person you are , its not prefect , nothing is , but its a pretty good layered system , and is based more in the real world rather than the virtual .

I agree an armed society is a polite society , we just need to explain , that more guns do not equal more risk , we need to look at MORE good guns , stop mis interperting the numbers ,

LOOK at what they did after 911 , they put MORE guns in , not less , they armed the pilots etc , thats more not less guns , GOOD guns .

Politicians use to be Leaders and Statesmen in a good way , now they are just good talkers/lairs .


Later Chris
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: patsim</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Intrepid4576</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gZn-Pq38B_Y"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gZn-Pq38B_Y" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object> </div></div>

That was worth watching. Thanks </div></div>

Un-fucking-believable. Really?

What does this anti-military, fantasy-facts-based, inflamatory BS contribute here?

It uses a household survey to over-exagerate Iraqi civilian death estimates. Yet the narrator attributes ALL of those deaths to the US military. That waste-of-oxygen also calls the US military "the greatest perpetrator of mass murder in our current era". Seriously?

Yet another sheep... Pissed at the sheepdog... Don't waste your 2+26... I'll never gets those minutes back.


Back on topic, that "Anarchist Soccer Mom" blog was an eye-opening read. An unfortunately-NOT-unique position these days.

There were many "links" in the chain of errors that allowed a mentally-FUBAR'd individual to illegally obtain weapons, break-in to a schoolhouse, and carry out this tragedy almost completely un-opposed.

Not every tragedy has to have a universally applicable solution...

-Mom could've used a gun safe.
-Psycho could've been on effective meds.
-Psycho's facebook fan-boys could've called the cops when they read his threats.
-School could've had alarmed points of entry.
-School personnel could've been armed.
-Psycho could've been struck by an errant lightning bolt that morning...

The woulda/coulda/shoulda list can go on forever. Say a prayer for those kids, the survivors, and the politicians susceptible to knee-jerk bad decisions.

Then clean your guns, and count your <span style="text-decoration: line-through">ammo</span> blessings...
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

Because a select few assholes don't like the aesthetics presented when armed security is tasked with protecting those who can't or won't defend themselves, the whole population must be subject to a gross violation of our constitutionally secured, God given right to protect ourselves?...Ah, no.

The complete, coerced, defenselessness of our children in schools must end! Immediately!

There is ample precedent for psychos seeking infamy exploiting defenseless people and in any other realm of law, criminal or civil, the legal-industrial-complex would have made lucrative hay with the obvious negligence apparent when the same fucking "Mistakes", "Oversights" or "Tragedies" are repeated.

Assholes, idiots and maniacs with any type of gun are fair topics for concern and remedy but pretending to solve the problems of fame seeking loons preying on masses of unguarded people by taking guns from only those who will surrender them is intolerable horse shit.

The school districts, Universities, malls and movie theatres involved in the most recent shootings are far more negligent in allowing the environments for these massacres to be repeated than any politician or Aesthete is willing to admit.

I'm long past tired of being subject to risk because some wine sipper thinks eliminating that obvious risk is in "Bad Taste".

 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

+1 on the misinformation. My son and I were in the Boston area over the weekend and it was very interesting to listen to the local news reports and press conferences broadcast from Newtown as we drove through. As those stations faded out and we got closer to home, the so called "facts" were changing quite a bit.

What scares me is that a large amount of the general population do not know how to think for themselves and need to have the media do their thinking for them.

My prayers to the families...
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

I'm waiting for tomorrow's developments. I think I'm getting whiffs of a sellout.

Greg
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because a select few assholes don't like the aesthetics presented when armed security is tasked with protecting those who can't or won't defend themselves, the whole population must be subject to a gross violation of our constitutionally secured, God given right to protect ourselves?...Ah, no.

The complete, coerced, defenselessness of our children in schools must end! Immediately!

There is ample precedent for psychos seeking infamy exploiting defenseless people and in any other realm of law, criminal or civil, the legal-industrial-complex would have made lucrative hay with the obvious negligence apparent when the same fucking "Mistakes", "Oversights" or "Tragedies" are repeated.

Assholes, idiots and maniacs with any type of gun are fair topics for concern and remedy but pretending to solve the problems of fame seeking loons preying on masses of unguarded people by taking guns from only those who will surrender them is intolerable horse shit.

The school districts, Universities, malls and movie theatres involved in the most recent shootings are far more negligent in allowing the environments for these massacres to be repeated than any politician or Aesthete is willing to admit.

I'm long past tired of being subject to risk because some wine sipper thinks eliminating that obvious risk is in "Bad Taste".

</div></div>

Exactly. The alternate reality these people live in intersects with truth and the result is dead kids. The blame is always with the shooter, but its time for us to shout from the rooftops that liberal nitwits and their "gun free" zones are causal factors.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Ronws
Dallas School Shooting
Replies
10
Views
489
Ronws
Ronws
7.62willdo
Losing faith in Texas LE……
Replies
20
Views
702
TicTacTex
TicTacTex
HeavyAssault
FAFO files....Be amazed!!
Replies
0
Views
482
HeavyAssault
HeavyAssault
PatMiles
WATCH: Former High School Wrestler Takes Matters into His Own Hands When He Sees Vicious Thug Assaulting a Helpless Female Subway Employee
Replies
36
Views
1K
LawTalker
L
_Windrider_
Iowa school shooting
Replies
36
Views
1K
Maggot
Maggot
Top Bottom
Back