Custom bolt action barrel not centered with stock

[Wannashootit]

Varified by what ?

Tell me what else, it could be?
Barrel? Receiver ring? Could not cause the trigger to be off-center in the inlet.

Both receiver inletting, and barrel channel- "off" the same amount (visually), and to the same side.

OP-
Is the reveal on both sides of the action, at the top stock line, identical?

 

[Shooter71]

It’s pretty easy to roll an action a degree or three during bedding and have the trigger off center.

 

[Mac 1]

I

New shooter here. I built my first custom bolt action rifle. Xlr element magnesium chassis, proof 16.5” cf barrel, and a bighorn origin action. Just got it back from the gunsmith last week and noticed that the barrel isn’t centered with the stock. It is free floating. I shot about 50 rounds through it this weekend and got it zeroed. Groups weren’t super tight but about on par with how I normally shoot. I was just wondering if this could be an issue. I did have one round that wouldn’t chamber properly. But only one out of a little over 50. I could be nit picking because of how much the smith charged me but I just wanna be sure it is a problem. They did bed the recoil lug I think. I will attach pics. Any help would be appreciated.

I d suggest you send it back to your " Smith " with that much uneven gap he should of applied two layers of duct tape to barrel and glassed the barrel channel for a cosmetic fix. It doesn't add that much weight and leaves a professional finish. Smith's like every other profession vary a great deal . As do the instructions their customers give them.

 

[b6graham]

I

I d suggest you send it back to your " Smith " with that much uneven gap he should of applied two layers of duct tape to barrel and glassed the barrel channel for a cosmetic fix. It doesn't add that much weight and leaves a professional finish. Smith's like every other profession vary a great deal . As do the instructions their customers give them.

Wut no thats not a fix

 

[pabrousseau]

Check to see if the holes in the receiver are not out of alignment length wise and centered in the bottom of the receiver.

 

[Wannashootit]

It’s pretty easy to roll an action a degree or three during bedding and have the trigger off center.

It sure is.
But that won't put the barrel off center. If the inletting were centered, the barrel would still be centered even if the receiver were slightly canted.
It (the barrel) is simply pivoting around the centerline. It wouldn't change L/R positioning.

 

[Shooter71]

It sure is.
But that won't put the barrel off center. If the inletting were centered, the barrel would still be centered even if the receiver were slightly canted.
It (the barrel) is simply pivoting around the centerline. It wouldn't change L/R positioning.

Agree completely. Trigger alignment is probably not related to the barrel alignment at all, but is related to bedding which is the first place I’d look for both issues.

 

[FisherT&C]

The origin recoil lug has a pin that holds it in place. If the pin was not used or came out the recoil lug could be canted. You have to take the gun out of the stock flip it upside down to see if it's canted. The recoil lug being canted can definitely effect how the barrel sits in the channel.

 

[Im2bent]

Here's the problem, trigger cants left the barrel on the other side of the pivot would be canted to the right. In this case op says they are biased towards the same side.

 

[Steel head]

I have an XLR carbon chassis with a Kelblys Atlas Tac action in it and there is no reason to bed an XLR chassis that i have found.
Sounds like a solution in search of a problem to me.

I have two XLR elements.
It’s silly to bed it unless you’re action is wonky.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I have physically held several M700's which suffered the same barrel/channel alignment problem. They went back to Remmy, and came back straight.

IMHO, they had replaced receivers which had been improperly bored and threaded for the barrel tenon (possibly also replaced). They shot lights out, but originally off the line, they shot.

...But that alignment...

I briefly wondered what a manufacturer values a receiver off the mass production line at (opinion/guess), and whether or not serial numbers ever get re-engraved.

Naahhh...

Greg

 

[XLR308]

I have physically held several M700's which suffered the same barrel/channel alignment problem. They went back to Remmy, and came back straight.

IMHO, they had replaced receivers which had been properly bored and threaded for the barrel (possible also replaced). They shot lights out, but originally off the line, they shot.

...But that alignment...

I briefly wondered what a manufacturer values a receiver off the mass production line at, and whether or not serial numbers ever get re-engraved.

Naahhh...

Greg

Just a side note Gregg Tacops can take a wonky Rem 700 reciever and turn it into a fucking work of art
It just depends on how you want to get there.

 

[Stoweit]

Send it back to your smith, and have him make it right.

 

[BJames]

Just shoot the damn thing. Had a manners that did the same thing, shot great, I even got over it after awhile

 

[357Max]

There's an easy way to prove/disprove if the bedding compound is the problem.

XLR inlet is radial cut i.e. a fancy way of saying it's effectively a v block accept with radial contact instead of line contact.

Go to NAPA and buy some plasti guage, lay 2 strands of it perpendicular to the xlr inlet, front & back. Install barrelled action over the plasti guage and snug the action screws to about 20 inch pounds. Then pull it and check to confirm it flattened the plasti guage evenly & has at least 2 points of contact front & back to the xlr inlet. If it does then it's likely an xlr problem. If it doesn't then the smith fucked up the bedding.

I'm leaning towards the latter since the damn thing should have never been bedded to start with. If the bedding is high, the action screw clearance holes in the chassis will certainly allow enough side to side to result in what you have pictured.

It would be real easy to screw up the bedding job by just grabbing a std set of 700 action screws to snug while bedding sets up.

Use the wrong screws and it might feel tight, when in reality you've just bottomed out the screws.

 

[Ccollins77]

Here’s a pic of the bedding job on the recoil lug. Spoke with xlr today and I’m sending the chassis back to them to check it. The fact that the trigger isn’t centered in the trigger guard and leaning towards the same side as the barrel is making them scratch their heads too

 

[Biggie1976]

Interested to see the outcome

 

[SB545]

Interested to see the outcome

I am as well.

OP, any updates?

 

[Baron23]

View attachment 7663004
Here’s a pic of the bedding job on the recoil lug. Spoke with xlr today and I’m sending the chassis back to them to check it. The fact that the trigger isn’t centered in the trigger guard and leaning towards the same side as the barrel is making them scratch their heads too

And the result was??

 

[camocorvette]

Op hasn't been on since November 23 2021. Might not get an answer

 

[Elite_KG]

I would have removed that “bedding” and checked it for myself. The fact a gunsmith would let the gun leave his shop off-center means you need a new gunsmith.

 

[Ziloooo]

I know this reply can be a bit old for a 2021 post. But I might get an idea how to fix that off-center barrel for barreled action style rifle.

Here's my story. I bought a new stock for my .22 Tikka T1x, and the first time I put everything together, I noticed the barrel is not centered in the stock, and the left side is almost touching the barrel making the barrel barely free-float. The stock is made by Boyds, a pretty budget choice. So the first thing I thought of is the build quality. Before I call their Customer Service, I pulled the barreled action out and tried below steps:

1. gently align the recoil lug with the dent on the barreled action.
2. stand the whole barreld action and the stock up, with the muzzle up.

I found before I tighten both the front and the rear screw, the barrel is able to swing freely left and right in the barrel tunnel (not sure if this is the right terminology). So I tried below screw tightening steps while the whole barreld action and the stock standing up.

1. tighten the rear screw to 70% snug, while holding the barrel at the central of barrel tunnel
2. tighten the front screw to 70% snug, while holding the barrel at the central of the barrel tunnel
3. tighten the rear screw to 90% snug, while holding the barrel at the central of the barrel tunnel
4. tighten the front screw to 90% snug, while holding the barrel at the central of the barrel tunnel
5. Finally, tighten both screw to specified torque using torque driver

And now i got my barrel perfectly centered in the stock.

There are two key points:

• stand the whole barreled action up. This will ensure the barrel action is 'sit' on the recoil lug, so when you shoot, the recoil will be absorbed by the lug properly.
• tighten the screw especially the rear screw while hand held the barrel to the center position. Most video I saw about installing the barreled action put the barreled action + stock on a gun vise, which means, when you tighten the screw, the barrel can 1. swing in any direction, unless your high-end stock/chasis has almost no tolerance for the barreled action to play. 2. bear force by touching the vise.

I don't think there's a lot to do with the inlet as most inlet is cut with sufficient tolerance. Tried my method and see if this works for you.

 

[Tokay444]

Alignment down the channel also depends on the method used for dialing the barrel. If they dialed at two points at the chamber end only, and didn’t index on the vertical plane can show up, if the barrel has a little English in it. I’d ask the shop to remove the bedding and see how it sits in the v block, or place it in another unbedded chassis and see. If it’s consistently crooked it’s likely in the barreled action, either barrel or action face. Yes, even ”custom” actions can have crooked faces. If it’s straight in another chassis, then obviously it’s the chassis. In a fiberglass stock you deal with that during bedding. Not ideal in a v block chassis.

What does alignment of the trigger depend on?

 

[SonoranPrecision]

I know this reply can be a bit old for a 2021 post. But I might get an idea how to fix that off-center barrel for barreled action style rifle.

Here's my story. I bought a new stock for my .22 Tikka T1x, and the first time I put everything together, I noticed the barrel is not centered in the stock, and the left side is almost touching the barrel making the barrel barely free-float. The stock is made by Boyds, a pretty budget choice. So the first thing I thought of is the build quality. Before I call their Customer Service, I pulled the barreled action out and tried below steps:

1. gently align the recoil lug with the dent on the barreled action.
2. stand the whole barreld action and the stock up, with the muzzle up.

I found before I tighten both the front and the rear screw, the barrel is able to swing freely left and right in the barrel tunnel (not sure if this is the right terminology). So I tried below screw tightening steps while the whole barreld action and the stock standing up.

1. tighten the rear screw to 70% snug, while holding the barrel at the central of barrel tunnel
2. tighten the front screw to 70% snug, while holding the barrel at the central of the barrel tunnel
3. tighten the rear screw to 90% snug, while holding the barrel at the central of the barrel tunnel
4. tighten the front screw to 90% snug, while holding the barrel at the central of the barrel tunnel
5. Finally, tighten both screw to specified torque using torque driver

And now i got my barrel perfectly centered in the stock.

There are two key points:

• stand the whole barreled action up. This will ensure the barrel action is 'sit' on the recoil lug, so when you shoot, the recoil will be absorbed by the lug properly.
• tighten the screw especially the rear screw while hand held the barrel to the center position. Most video I saw about installing the barreled action put the barreled action + stock on a flat surface or gun vise, which means, when you tighten the screw, the barrel can swing in any direction, unless your high-end stock/chasis has almost no tolerance for the barreled action to play.

There's really nothing to do with the inlet as most inlet is cut with sufficient tolerance. Tried my method and see if this works for you.

Except now your recoil lug is not flat against its mating surface, and it’s very likely that you’ll see group sizes open up, erratic fliers, a shifting zero, or any combination of the three. Even if you can get away with this in a 22, it’s definitely not a good idea with any center fire.

Additionally, most actions are round, making the stock and action self centering, even in low end stocks. Which means even if this worked, it would be impossible to accomplish with 99% of actions.

 

[Ziloooo]

Except now your recoil lug is not flat against its mating surface, and it’s very likely that you’ll see group sizes open up, erratic fliers, a shifting zero, or any combination of the three. Even if you can get away with this in a 22, it’s definitely not a good idea with any center fire.

Additionally, most actions are round, making the stock and action self centering, even in low end stocks. Which means even if this worked, it would be impossible to accomplish with 99% of actions.

I'm now thinking mine might now be the general case that can be applied to Rem 700 style action that has recoil lug attached/integrated to the action. Tikka style action has the recoil lug bedded in the stock and what's on action is a groove that matches the lug, so i think install it straight up is about to do what the manual said about install while holding it back against the lug.

I get your point on self centering, which is what MDT said about why their chasis does not need bedding. But in my case, the barrel was not centered because of the action was not centered, due to, from my point, the tolerane in the action screw pillar and the fact that the wood is soft.

I'll do a test on range this weekend and see it can achieve comparable result to the factory one. If not, I may consider glass bedding around the action screw pillars.

 

[XLR308]

View attachment 7663004
Here’s a pic of the bedding job on the recoil lug. Spoke with xlr today and I’m sending the chassis back to them to check it. The fact that the trigger isn’t centered in the trigger guard and leaning towards the same side as the barrel is making them scratch their heads too

I had completly forgotten about this thread since i have been just reading and not logged in for a long time.
I am not claiming to be a master at bedding like LRI and many others im sure but that is one ugly ass bedding job for just a lug.
If i had done that myself i wouldnt share pictures of it and sure as hell wouldnt want to charge someone for it.

 

[Mike Casselton]

What is your native language?

 

[SonoranPrecision]

I'm now thinking mine might now be the general case that can be applied to Rem 700 style action that has recoil lug attached/integrated to the action. Tikka style action has the recoil lug bedded in the stock and what's on action is a groove that matches the lug, so i think install it straight up is about to do what the manual said about install while holding it back against the lug.

I get your point on self centering, which is what MDT said about why their chasis does not need bedding. But in my case, the barrel was not centered because of the action does not centered, due to, from my point, the tolerane in the action screw pillar and the fact that the wood is soft.

I'll do a test on range this weekend and see it can achieve comparable result to the factory one. If not, I may consider glass bedding around the action screw pillars.

Again, if your recoil lug is not making equal contact across its entire width, that can cause pretty serious issues with accuracy/repeatability. It’s a much larger issue than cosmetic barrel centering.

 

[Ziloooo]

Again, if your recoil lug is not making equal contact across its entire width, that can cause pretty serious issues with accuracy/repeatability. It’s a much larger issue than cosmetic barrel centering.

are you referring to the issue when the recoil lug inlet itself is not perpendicular to the central line of the chasis? If this is the case, do you think glass bedding around the recoil lug can be the fix?

 

[SonoranPrecision]

are you referring to the issue when the recoil lug inlet itself is not perpendicular to the central line of the chasis? If this is the case, do you think glass bedding around the recoil lug can be the fix?

That’s exactly it. If you hold the action agains the recoil lug, and the barrel is off center, then that’s the way it is. Tightening the action in any other orientation is going to result in the recoil making uneven contact with its mating surface.

And yes bedding is going to be the best way to make sure the recoil lug is making full and even contact.

 

[Ziloooo]

That’s exactly it. If you hold the action agains the recoil lug, and the barrel is off center, then that’s the way it is. Tightening the action in any other orientation is going to result in the recoil making uneven contact with its mating surface.

And yes bedding is going to be the best way to make sure the recoil lug is making full and even contact.

makes sense to me. Thank you.

I agree mating the recoil lug with the mortise is more import and should be probably the first thing to check. I think mine is not about the recoil lug not perpendicular to the centrel cuz it fits well in the stock before I tighten the screw. But when I tighten the screw on the vise, the vise touch the barrel and set force to the barrel, which causes the barrel being off after tightning the action screw.

 

[LRI]

OP,

There's a few things I would look at, but first an opinion. If a chassis stock requires bedding, then you bought the wrong chassis. The whole point of the system is so that you only have to be smart enough to know how to snug up a couple screws.
That is what you paid for and what you should get.

10-15 years ago that wasn't always the case. The AI stuff was notorious for needing "something" because AI goofed on the inlet with the "V" system they used. The taper on the tang created a fulcrum where the front of the receiver would attempt to levitate off the stock when the rear guard screw was tightened to the typical 40-50 lbs.-inch. Correcting this required either a pad of resin to cast the tang or a machined insert (pillar) installed in the rear guard screw hole, and then surfaced to the receiver outside contour.

My advise regarding how your barreled action resides with its bias toward the right hand side of the barrel channel:

• The first thing I would do is pull the thing apart and carefully inspect the trigger well inlet on the stock. They are not one size fits all and as best as manufacturers try, its a tall order for them to anticipate every trigger brand used in an action with an M700 footprint. I cannot count the number of times a linkage, sliding pin, or "something" has kicked me in the sack during a final assembly where we had to go back and clearance for a feature not accounted for.
• Next, look at your trigger pins or carrier (however the trigger is being physically attached to the receiver body) and make double sure that something isn't sticking out enough to where its sitting on the chassis rather than the action.
• Look at your safety selector lever and ensure its not impinging on anything.

The point here is to inspect your chassis to try and identify any inclusions that would indicate something is touching something it shouldn't. Based on your photo of the barrel listing to the right, I'd be looking on the right side of the trigger well for anything as it'll push the tang side of the receiver to the left and cause the muzzle to lean towards the right.

• Next, pull the scope off your barreled action but leave the base attached. Flip the thing upside down and set it on a table with the base sitting on the surface. Grab a level. Set it on the table first and note where the bubble resides. Now take the level and set it on the flat bottom edge of your action's recoil lug. Does the bubble match how it did while on the table or is it biased to one side? If it is, does the bias make the left side of the recoil lug lean against the lug well in your chassis? If it does, this'll cause your stuff to push to the right. This is VERY common on factory M700's that have been rebarreled. Especially on a well bedded stock. If that lug is not timed correctly, it'll make the whole thing twist when being assembled and the channel alignment will be so bad that Ray Charles can see it. It is why we go to great lengths to have clients allow us to pin the recoil lug to the receiver on actions like the M700.
• Last, if the action was bedded to the chassis, I would personally have the lump of resin removed. This may not be possible without some machining equipment. (vertical mill) I would not advise being a blacksmith and whittling away at it with a die grinder. The reason being, its possible that it was not aligned correctly when the recoil lug casting was made.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

C.

 

[Ziloooo]

Except now your recoil lug is not flat against its mating surface, and it’s very likely that you’ll see group sizes open up, erratic fliers, a shifting zero, or any combination of the three. Even if you can get away with this in a 22, it’s definitely not a good idea with any center fire.

Additionally, most actions are round, making the stock and action self centering, even in low end stocks. Which means even if this worked, it would be impossible to accomplish with 99% of actions.

I pulled out the barreled action and re-do the work today....you are right on the self centering, i mostly do not need to set force on the barrel to the center when tightening the screw. However, I found I do have to hold it in place gently as there will be a bit play that can make the barrel swing left and right a bit before tightening to the screw. I believe that's normal as the recoil lug and the mortise on the action is not snug fit?