CZ 527 17 Hornet Varmint: Gunsmith says to support barrel for accuracy

[carbonbased]

I have a brand new CZ 17 Hornet Varmint. It's shooting 1.25" to 2.25" groups. Place I bought it from has a lifetime warranty on guns, which is why I go there. My CZ .204 varmint and 455 Ultra Lux .22 are very accurate.

Anyway, the old gunsmith there (nice guy) looked at my groups and said, for whatever reason, my gun/barrel needs some support between the barrel and stock, right before the barrel leaves the stock. He says the groups suggest a barrel harmonics issue, and the support will reduce the amplitude of the barrel. In the groups (5 shot), there will be a couple shots close together.

Neither he or I had any 17 Hornet bullets. He's ordering some in, and so am I. I shot all mine trying to see if the groups would tighten up.

What say you? I thought sporter barrels often merit such support, but not varmint barrels. Although CZ 527 varmint barrels are not real heavy…

edit: maybe I should've posted this in gunsmithing (just noticed that sub-forum)

 

[Codiekfx400]

I would not put any pressure on the barrel. It probably needs the copper cleaned out of it. Try some sweets 7.62 solvent. I would expect that gun to be sub moa with factory ammo. I have the same rifle and it’s very accurate. Also check your scope mounts. In the slight chance the gunsmith is correct you can put pressure on the barrel with some layers of material and shoot to see if it helps.

 

[mcfred]

Contact CZ about it if it is verified not to be an ammo/fouling/scope issue.

CZ should honor a lifetime warranty for the original owner. They replaced an inaccurate rifle for me once.

They might not warranty a rifle that's been modified.

 

[carbonbased]

The good thing about this shop is they have their own lifetime warranty, so I’m covered either way.

 

[Rumbo]

My cz varmit 17hornet shoots half inch all day but I do have to pull a snake or brush through every 10 to 20 rounds. It seems to be a real dirty round. If I don't clean it the groups blow out 1 to 2 inches. Have been loading it with 10.4 grains of 2208 with a 20gr v-max. Chrono is at around 3650fps.
Just ordered a cz varmit in 204 ruger. Hope its as accurate.

 

[Ledzep]

Some factory grade button rifled barrels respond well to an upward pressure at the end of the stock. Some do not.

It's a double edged sword-- it may reduce group size but even so, POI is likely to shift around with variable loading of the fore-end. Easy enough to try with a stack of card stock or playing cards cut into strips.

I would rebarrel or contact CZ, personally.

 

[isofahunter]

Sometimes a little pressure right near the end of barrel channel can settle groups. I always use electrical tape to test the theory and if it shows improvement put in an epoxy bump as a permanent solution.

 

[Robert Gradous]

I have a brand new CZ 17 Hornet Varmint. It's shooting 1.25" to 2.25" groups. Place I bought it from has a lifetime warranty on guns, which is why I go there. My CZ .204 varmint and 455 Ultra Lux .22 are very accurate.

Anyway, the old gunsmith there (nice guy) looked at my groups and said, for whatever reason, my gun/barrel needs some support between the barrel and stock, right before the barrel leaves the stock. He says the groups suggest a barrel harmonics issue, and the support will reduce the amplitude of the barrel. In the groups (5 shot), there will be a couple shots close together.

Neither he or I had any 17 Hornet bullets. He's ordering some in, and so am I. I shot all mine trying to see if the groups would tighten up.

What say you? I thought sporter barrels often merit such support, but not varmint barrels. Although CZ 527 varmint barrels are not real heavy…

edit: maybe I should've posted this in gunsmithing (just noticed that sub-forum)

CZ is generally very accurate,,,, with the hornaday factory ammunition.
I have a 22 hornet and my friend has a 17 hornet and if we do our job 3/8 to a half inch 3 shot groups.
If the action is bedded correctly the barrel should be floated,,,,,, but if it doesn't respond then get a soft wedge of foam or rubber under the barrel about a 1/2 inch back from the end of the stock and bolt it back together.

Robert Gradous

 

[Mike Casselton]

I have 5 CZ 527 rifles.
22 Hornet, 221 Fireball (2 of them), 6.5 Grendel and the 17 Hornet.

The first three shot well out of the gate. The 17 and 6.5 needed quite a few to settle in.

Two things have worked for all of my 527 rifles and for others I've shot.

1. Skip the set trigger and adjust the basic trigger for a smooth take up and release.

2. I get better groups with a soft, yet firm hold on the rifle. Shooting them close to free recoil opens the groups up.

Lastly, if it still doesn't shoot well, put a trusted scope on it.

BTW,
You did clean all that black gunk out of the barrel BEFORE you shot it, right?

 

[JG26_Irish]

I have a brand new CZ 17 Hornet Varmint. It's shooting 1.25" to 2.25" groups. Place I bought it from has a lifetime warranty on guns, which is why I go there. My CZ .204 varmint and 455 Ultra Lux .22 are very accurate.

Anyway, the old gunsmith there (nice guy) looked at my groups and said, for whatever reason, my gun/barrel needs some support between the barrel and stock, right before the barrel leaves the stock. He says the groups suggest a barrel harmonics issue, and the support will reduce the amplitude of the barrel. In the groups (5 shot), there will be a couple shots close together.

Neither he or I had any 17 Hornet bullets. He's ordering some in, and so am I. I shot all mine trying to see if the groups would tighten up.

What say you?

What the old gunsmith said, May or may not help and is not permanent, so give it a try. However, check the obvious 1st and do what Cody suggested and spend about two days cleaning the copper fouling out of the bbl. Every 17 I own will foul much faster than any other caliber. Or to put it differently, the smaller the bore, the more adverse impact from a given amount of fouling. If you failed to break in the bbl properly, clean it and run thru the break in process by shooting 5 shots, clean, repeat, for a while. CZ’s are nice but the bbl’s are not hand lapped customs and the 17’s are more prone to issues anyway and benefit from careful break in. Should be sub moa from a solid bench using 12x or better scope imo.

 

[carbonbased]

So, checking back in on my thread. Attached are pictures from after the gunsmith supported the barrel near where it exits the stock. The shooting was on April 24, 2019.

A fellow at the range, who shoots much better than I, recorded recorded a 100yd three shot group measuring .17 MOA. He messed up the fourth shot, resulting in a four shot group of 1.38 MOA.

My two groups of three shots each averaged out to .57 MOA.

The ammo used for this second session was 20 grain Hornaday factory ammo.

There really aren’t enough data here for me to conclude that what the gunsmith did has permanently improved the gun. But, it’s a promising start. I definitely think that this gun needs to be bedded. If anything, if I keep it the way it is, the barrel needs more support, because when I handle the rifle I can hear the barrel rubbing around a bit on the pad the gunsmith installed.

During my subsequent prairie dog hunt, I found I used either my .204 or .22, and barely touched the .17.

This summer, I was messing around with a .223 Remington 700 5R, and didn’t pay any attention to the 17 hornet.

Even though I live in frigid Minnesota, I might try some more shooting with the 17 hornet, but to be honest, I’m more interested in 22 rimfire right now.

I should note that I did indeed clean most of the black gunk out, which if I remember correctly, is the bluing that CZ does…They must dunk in the whole barrel into the bluing solution.

I should note that my initial groups in my original post were shot using both the 25 and 20 grain Hornaday factory ammo. I can see why they discontinued the 25 grain, as it shot noticeably worse.

I’ll try to remember to check back and update you all with more groups and any improvements I have made with the rifle. I sure appreciate all the advice.

 

[shaun1826]

I had the same accuracy issues with mine. Shooting 1.5 moa. Contacted CZ, their spec says it shoud shoot 1 moa. Sent it in under warranty, waiting to see what they say.

 

[shoot 51]

I have a Savage 17 Hornet and it builds a carbon ring pretty easy and accuracy goes with it. Clean your barrel

 

[chevy_man]

Use an o-ring.

Pretty common with the rimfire crowd. Loosen up the stock and shift the o-ring down the barrel, tighten down and shoot. Loosen/move/shoot until you find the sweet spot.


The limbsaver barrel harmonic tuner can work too.

 

[carbonbased]

I had the same accuracy issues with mine. Shooting 1.5 moa. Contacted CZ, their spec says it shoud shoot 1 moa. Sent it in under warranty, waiting to see what they say.

Interesting! Please let us know what they say.

 

[shaun1826]

I’ll try and remember too. I just bought the rifle new 3 weeks ago. First time I’ve had a problem with a CZ. It also fails to chamber a round every 5-10 rounds. The bolt stops about 1/2 inch shy of being fully forward. I’m hoping they just replace the rifle with both issues being there. They quoted a 4-6 week turnaround.

 

[MarinePMI]

.17 and .20 cal barrels can take a bit more to settle down. You need to shoot at least a 100 rds (possibly 150rds) before you can really tell if the barrel is bad or it just needed to be broken in.

Sub-caliber cartridges and barrels do not behave the same as .224 on up. They are examples where percentages really do matter...and are much more demonstrable.

 

[Rust]

I have a few CZs, from 17HMR to .416 Rigby. Those that didn't shoot well out of the box tightened up with a good bedding job (walnut stocks). The .17 HMR barrel starts to fall of accuracy wise after about 30 rounds or so.

 

[carbonbased]

Hey @Rust, I assume you know we’re discussing the centerfire 17 Hornet and not HMR, but are just adding some interesting experiences with your HMR. It’s weird your HMR’s accuracy falls off so quickly. Makes the gun rather useless.

That prairie dogger on YouTube, cavedweller1959, told me his Ruger 17 Hornet is very accurate only for about 25 rounds, and then starts spraying. I belong to his Patreon.

 

[carbonbased]

Small update: to stop the slight rubbing sound I mentioned above (barrel moving very very slightly on the pad) I added a bicycle inner tube patch under it. We shall see how that works.

 

[Rust]

Hey @Rust, I assume you know we’re discussing the centerfire 17 Hornet and not HMR, but are just adding some interesting experiences with your HMR. It’s weird your HMR’s accuracy falls off so quickly. Makes the gun rather useless.

That prairie dogger on YouTube, cavedweller1959, told me his Ruger 17 Hornet is very accurate only for about 25 rounds, and then starts spraying. I belong to his Patreon.

Yup, knew that. What I was pointing out was that, for a minimal recoil rifle such as a 17 HMR or 17 Hornet, bedding with proper torque of the action generally tightens up accuracy.

As far as the fall off in accuracy goes, tiny bores foul quickly, nothing unexpected there. At fifty yards (keeps the wind from too much influence when testing groups andf ammo) the fall of is from tight cloverleafs to 1/2"+ after twenty five to thirty rounds. I have heard it takes a LOT of rounds to break in the factory barrel. No prairie dogs down south, just the occasional possum or armadillo

 

[carbonbased]

The barrel thing (kludge?) finally got to me and I sent the gun back to CZ on advise from the shop’s second (and younger) gunsmith. It’s been there for months already, since March or thereabouts. COVID is messing with turnaround, for sure.

I’ll let you know the story when it comes back.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

The gunsmith is not being dumb.

I had a Rem 700 VLS 223 that came with a raised contact bump in the end of the stock channel. I told myself, that can't be right; only floating varmint barrels can work best, so I removed it.

Last time I ever took a Dremel to a gun in vengeance.

I got what you have.

Nothing I could imagine and try would make it shoot as well as it did with plain old factory Remington 223 ammo when I first bought it. Eventually I put back a facsimile of the original contact pad and Voila; I had a good shooting 223 VLS again.

Let the smith do his thing with the proviso that if it doesn't work, you're counting on his support under the shop's guarantee.

When somebody offers you an easy way out, at least give them the chance to make good.

Greg

PS, I skipped past your latest post, guess I was being dumb. Or was I?

 

[MarinePMI]

Ummm....CZ rifles come from the factory with floated barrels (except the FS models of course).

If anything, I'd check to see if the barrel is touching (unintended) the stock (specifically on the right side). CZ's inletting patterns used to be off a few degrees, which caused most needing to have the barrel channel relieved on the right side. I've been told that this has been fixed, but the early models were well known to have this issue across the line of rifles (45x's, 527's and 550's).

 

[carbonbased]

PS, I skipped past your latest post, guess I was being dumb. Or was I?

I’m not sure, lol! Anyway, the short version is:

1. Gun grouped bad (+1 MOA)
2. Old gunsmith put pad under barrel
3. Gun grouped great, but barrel rubbed pad under handling (sorta like squeaking, but not)
4. I added a little more stuff under barrel, same spot
5. Gun grouped worse, but not as bad as #1
6. Brought gun back to store
7. Younger gunsmith (40-50yrs old) not happy with the very idea of the fix nor the way it was done. Said that it’s CZ problem, let’s see if they fix it (aka bedding, new barrel, new gun, etc). Old gunsmith not coming in anymore due to COVID.
8. Younger gunsmith also said he’ll fix it if CZ doesn’t. The shop has a lifetime warranty on guns, btw.

@MarinePMI If the barrel was touching, it would’ve had to have been waaaaay up by the receiver, and then, just barely. The gun was generously free floated the whole length of the barrel. But maybe it needed a good bedding job, or the factory threading threw off the harmonics, or blah blah voodoo pig blood etc etc etc.

I just bought a CZ 22 Hornet Lux as a salve. Be here in two weeks.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

So it worked, but it squeaked? I

I'd lift the barreled action, sprinkle some graphite, put it back together, and forge on.

But who am I to...?

 

[carbonbased]

So it worked, but it squeaked? I

I'd lift the barreled action, sprinkle some graphite, put it back together, and forge on.

But who am I to...?

Yeah, I get it. There’s a “Whatever works” school of thought and the “Fix it correctly” philosophy. Both can go haywire when pushed to extremes, as in the “There I fixed it” meme and, lacking a better term, the “Over-Anal-yzer” method.

It just got to me, you know? Shouldn’t be happening (in some perfect world) and since it was under warranty and costing me nothing (not even for shipping), I figured I’ll give it a whirl.

I had that bump of which you speak under a Rem .204 factory stock. Had unexplained flyers. Put it into a KRG W3 chassis because I wanted to heavy that rifle up, and a side effect was the groups are ow .5/.6”.

YMMV.

If dealing with the CZ would’ve cost me $$$, yeah, I would’ve put up with it.

On just whatever works:

On perfection:

 

[carbonbased]

So, an update on my gun. About a month ago my gun shop called and said my gun was finally back from CZ. I went there a couple days ago and was presented with a brand new CZ in 17 Hornet, Varmint barrel. Just like the original, except no factory threaded barrel, a nicer stock, and no explanation from CZ as to what the problem was.

At my behest, the shop called CZ to see if they’d thread the barrel. The answer was, “No.” Seems that my gun was a US non-catalog item that CZ USA got from Europe, and no more were available. I was unhappy with this, but also ok because I was planning on changing the thread on the CZ from euro m15 or whatever to 1/2x28, and my shop said they’d thread the new gun at half-price.

In closing, there was something wrong enough with the original to prompt CZ to sent a new gun. I sort of wish I knew what that was.

 

[sdkidaho]

So, an update on my gun. About a month ago my gun shop called and said my gun was finally back from CZ. I went there a couple days ago and was presented with a brand new CZ in 17 Hornet, Varmint barrel. Just like the original, except no factory threaded barrel, a nicer stock, and no explanation from CZ as to what the problem was.

At my behest, the shop called CZ to see if they’d thread the barrel. The answer was, “No.” Seems that my gun was a US non-catalog item that CZ USA got from Europe, and no more were available. I was unhappy with this, but also ok because I was planning on changing the thread on the CZ from euro m15 or whatever to 1/2x28, and my shop said they’d thread the new gun at half-price.

In closing, there was something wrong enough with the original to prompt CZ to sent a new gun. I sort of wish I knew what that was.

How does the new one shoot?

 

[carbonbased]

How does the new one shoot?

Really well! Nailed prairie dogs out to 250 yds this summer with no problem. I’m not a huge group shooter so I can’t give you some ultra-specific MOA groups, but it shoots sub-MOA.

Unfortunately it seems CZ has discontinued a number of 527s. I think they’re moving to a push feed system to compete on cost with Tikka. There’s a post somewhere on that in the Hide, and on various CZ forums.