• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Defiance or Big Horn Arms?

FamilyMan

FamilyMan

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 3, 2011
720
0
Utah
i think i am going to finally pull the trigger and get a custom action. i have always liked the surgeon but not for any particular reason other than i had heard about them and they were considered the best. down side is surgeon isn't taking any orders and are like 8-10 mos out according to the person i talked to today. so i have been researching a little and have come down to the Defiance Deviant or the Big Horn arms Tactical. Ive read the specs on each but since i am not as experienced with custom action's or gunsmithing i am not quite sure what the benefits/drawbacks of each of them are. So I am not really asking which one is better than the other, because i believe when you get up to this level of equipment you really cant go wrong. I am leaning towards the Big Horn only cause i have talked with AJ over the phone quite extensively and feel he knows his stuff and i haven't heard a single thing bad about there stuff yet. but i can also say the same for Defiance.
So my question is what am i gaining /losing by going with the Big Horn TL2 over the Defiance Deviant? or the surgeon for that matter?
Thanks
 
Last edited:
it was only like a week ago that defiance had a couple deviants on their "for immediate sale" list. you might as well go the deviant route so you can be the cool guy with the hot new action. :)
 
Both of those receivers are very similar. Both now come with integral lugs. The Defiance has an integral base whereas the Bighorn does not. I have both Defiance and Bighorn and like them both equally. I like the actual bolt of the Bighorn better but was not impressed with the factory scope base. I ordered a custom base from Murphy Precision and am good to go.

Go with either and you will be happy.

-Kyle ~ XLR
 
I am lucky enough to have a Surgeon action. I have nothing but praise for it, but I wouldn't wait 8-10 mths for it. Some perspective though, I ordered a 223 bolt from them and was quoted 6 mths but received it in 2. An option for the Surgeon is to buy a Rifle from Eurooptic. They come fully loaded with an AICS 2.0 chassis. Expensive, but top notch.

I personally don't think you can go wrong with a Bighorn or a Defiance action. I would go with whichever one you could get quickest, provided some other component (e.g., barrel or stock) doesn't take longer. If it was me, I would probably go with the Defiance because it's pretty much like the Surgeon. Something to consider is that these actions may not be a true "drop in" Rem700 replacement to a chassis system if that is the route you're going ... you would definitely want to ask that question.

What are you looking to chamber your rifle in?
 
The Bighorn site says their bolt handle is now an integral part of the bolt. Is this a cast part?
 
Coin toss. In the hands of a capable smith, they will all turn into a first rate rifle. Literally, it's all personal preference at the Surgeon, BH, Defiance level.
 
LCDR JGB said:
Something to consider is that these actions may not be a true "drop in" Rem700 replacement to a chassis system if that is the route you're going ... you would definitely want to ask that question.

What are you looking to chamber your rifle in?
Click to expand...
no chassis will be bedded in a T4A
6.5 Creedmoor
 
From the Bighorn website......
Our current backlog has grown to the extent that we are temporarily suspending taking new orders.
 
Edds said:
From the Bighorn website......
Our current backlog has grown to the extent that we are temporarily suspending taking new orders.
Click to expand...

Damn!!!

Surgeon & now Bighorn.......................................WTF? Who's buying up all these actions?
 
buckey said:
Damn!!!

Surgeon & now Bighorn.......................................WTF? Who's buying up all these actions?
Click to expand...

I spoke with AJ from Big Horn yesterday and he said they have a large batch they were sending out to their dealers this month or next so they will be available from some dealers soon!
 
buckey said:
Damn!!! Who's buying up all these actions?
Click to expand...

Pretty much anything that requires a FFL is in short supply now. Anyone who was holding off on builds now has a fire under them thanks to all the regulation talk. And with tax refunds are on the way it's a double whammy. I'm sure there is some hording in there too.
 
Edds said:
The Bighorn site says their bolt handle is now an integral part of the bolt. Is this a cast part?
Click to expand...

The bolt shaft and handle are not cast but in deed machined out of one solid piece of 4130 as opposed to our older tig welded assembly. Our floating bolt head remains the same and has not changed.

Edds said:
From the Bighorn website......
Our current backlog has grown to the extent that we are temporarily suspending taking new orders.
Click to expand...

We are trying to shift from taking orders directly to having our dealers doing the sales of our actions. We are a small outfit and I just do not have the time to make actions and field all the incoming calls. You will be seeing actions showing up at Third Generation Shooters Supply, Trigger Time Gun Club, and a few other dealers within a month or two. In fact we are increasing our production and have just purchased a third Haas CNC mill. We are gearing up and are smoothing out our processes and have our largest batches of parts running through the shop as we speak. I feel our actions are only getting better with the new features and with the more experience I gain making them.

DSCN3338.jpg
 
WOW..... get me a towel to wipe up my drool!!!
Ive already called 3rd Gen to get one when they come in but they weren't taking pre orders so ill just have to keep checking in for when they arrive. I figured instead of having to make a decision between a Defiance Deviant and Big Horn Tactical i would just get both. So i placed and order with Defiance yesterday and am waiting for Big Horns to come in, then i can run both and see which one i like best. Seems like the most logical way of going about it right :)
AJ_Goddard said:
The bolt shaft and handle are not cast but in deed machined out of one solid piece of 4130 as opposed to our older tig welded assembly. Our floating bolt head remains the same and has not changed.



We are trying to shift from taking orders directly to having our dealers doing the sales of our actions. We are a small outfit and I just do not have the time to make actions and field all the incoming calls. You will be seeing actions showing up at Third Generation Shooters Supply, Trigger Time Gun Club, and a few other dealers within a month or two. In fact we are increasing our production and have just purchased a third Haas CNC mill. We are gearing up and are smoothing out our processes and have our largest batches of parts running through the shop as we speak. I feel our actions are only getting better with the new features and with the more experience I gain making them.

DSCN3338.jpg
Click to expand...
 
I have a Bighorn and used to own a Defiance. Like the features of the Bighorn much better.

Ordering my second as soon as I save a little scratch.

Good luck with both tho, thats a good problem to have :D

Regards,
DT
 
What kind of extractor does the Bighorn use?
 
FamilyMan said:
WOW..... get me a towel to wipe up my drool!!!
Ive already called 3rd Gen to get one when they come in but they weren't taking pre orders so ill just have to keep checking in for when they arrive. I figured instead of having to make a decision between a Defiance Deviant and Big Horn Tactical i would just get both. So i placed and order with Defiance yesterday and am waiting for Big Horns to come in, then i can run both and see which one i like best. Seems like the most logical way of going about it right :)
Click to expand...
First Premier scopes, now one each of Big Horn and Defiance...can your wife call my wife? :p
 
AJ is a first class guy & very responsive to all questions. ordered new version action back in December, can't wait for it to get here. Will be a 6CM in Terry Cross stock.
 
The Bighorn and the Defiance Deviant are the nicest 2 actions that are actually available at the time. You can't go wrong with either of them. Your plan of getting both and handling them yourself is a smart choice.
 
I have to agree with the last couple of posts; it first started with watching the Official 2012 SnipersHide build rifle thread that Spartan arms in Concord, CA is building. I have probably looked at that thread a dozen times longingly in the last several months. The rifle is based off of a Bighorn action, and of course all the other components are top shelf but I just keep going back and lusting over those actions....definitely going to be in my next build.
 
AJ_Goddard said:
The bolt shaft and handle are not cast but in deed machined out of one solid piece of 4130 as opposed to our older tig welded assembly. Our floating bolt head remains the same and has not changed.



We are trying to shift from taking orders directly to having our dealers doing the sales of our actions. We are a small outfit and I just do not have the time to make actions and field all the incoming calls. You will be seeing actions showing up at Third Generation Shooters Supply, Trigger Time Gun Club, and a few other dealers within a month or two. In fact we are increasing our production and have just purchased a third Haas CNC mill. We are gearing up and are smoothing out our processes and have our largest batches of parts running through the shop as we speak. I feel our actions are only getting better with the new features and with the more experience I gain making them.

DSCN3338.jpg
Click to expand...

Any ETA on actions being in stock and where? Need one badly...
 
D_TROS said:
I have a Bighorn and used to own a Defiance. Like the features of the Bighorn much better.

Ordering my second as soon as I save a little scratch.

Good luck with both tho, thats a good problem to have :D

Regards,
DT
Click to expand...

Curious as to what features you like better?
 
lkessler said:
I would like to know what you like better about the bighorn as well,also where does one go to buy these actions
Click to expand...

From the owner of the company himself, post #12 above

You will be seeing actions showing up at Third Generation Shooters Supply, Trigger Time Gun Club, and a few other dealers within a month or two.
Click to expand...


From the Website:

Our Action benefits

Long Shank with built in recoil lug

Gives better barrel alignment to the action.
Carries the weight of heavy barrels better.
Provides maximum thread strength when length meets or exceeds the diameter.


Two-piece Bolt

Handle is machined with the bolt.
Floating head seats perfectly on receiver lugs and is not affected by alignment of the bolt body.
Allows interchangeability of bolt heads for different cartridge sizes in the same action.
Allows for gas block for added safety to the shooter.
Allows for separate heat treatment of the bolt body and bolt head.


Repeaters

Narrow cut for single stack mags keeps the center of the action rigid.
Provides very smooth straight line feeding.
Allows the center section of the stock to have a thicker wall.
Removable mags allow easy loading and unloading.
5 and 10 round capacity for tactical rifles.


Receiver

Will fit standard length Remington stocks.
Will accept any Remington trigger, allowing greatest choices in stocks and triggers.
Extra heavy rear tang eliminates rear tang flex.
Positive bolt stop that does not contact bolt lugs.
Simple changes for cartridge size and length.
Lightened firing pins to quicken lock time.
Special heat treating of material for a lifetime of durable use.

Made in the USA with state of the art materials, machines, and processes to last a lifetime.
 
I have a melonited Defiance and it is like glass. That being said, I am going to try a bighorn on my next build. I have heard nothing but good feedback about fit, finish, and customer service. Check out Pierce and Borden as well.
 
Last edited:
h4everything said:
Curious as to what features you like better?
Click to expand...

This is not a bash on Defiance AT ALL, good stuff there. But for me and this price range, I start to dig a little deeper.

Features of the Bighorn I like better than other actions
#1 - floating bolt head - helps square up the bolt/action interface for more consistant shooting
#2 - integral recoil lug - allows the bighorn action to be put straight into a std rem stock with no milling/bedding alterations. the actions are both same length, but the recoil lug on defiance is 1/4" further forward, requireing not only stock to be milled out, but also area behind lug to be bedded.
#3 - bolt release - I liked the feel of it better and I believe it was more beefy

Good luck, cant lose either way.

DT
 
The G.A Precision Templar (Action I run) and the SAC Signature Actions are both products of Defiance Machine. I am not a gunsmith so when it comes to choosing actions I will let the experts advise my decisions. If George/Mark think that defiance actions are the basis for their builds, surely they will suit my needs.
 
hard call. i have left handed versions of both. bighorn is a lot smoother cause i have 8500ish rounds on it (and 4 barrels). but defiance just got a new cerakote so not at all a fair comparison.

what i like about the bighorn is
thick tang
adjustable bolt stop
larger bolt handle feels good


what i like about the defiance is
you can get it left bolt / right port
m16 style extractor

there are a ton of other differences like the floating bolt head, but none that really excite me

both are great
 
timjoebobbradley said:
Easy_E- Is that rifle ready to shoot? the tang seems awful proud of the stock. Maybe it is the way the photo is taken? What stock is that?
Click to expand...

You can order the thicker tang or regular . The Manners stock has the mini chassis I believe that makes it look more pronounced. I'm very satisfied with the action here's the first five shoots doing the shoot one clean method.
 
I was going to suggest Third Generation Shooting Supply but it looks like they are out. Crazy seeing how they had 7 or so actions in a couple weeks ago.
 
I think its awesome that theres yet another top notch manufacturing company in Colorado. Just bought an xlr chassis that Id love to drop a bighorn TL2-LA into. Hopefully this will be a complete local CO build. Any chance of doing a group buy for snipershide members? I work at the gander down the road from you and can look into doing ffl transfers out of our store if needed.

AJ_Goddard said:
The bolt shaft and handle are not cast but in deed machined out of one solid piece of 4130 as opposed to our older tig welded assembly. Our floating bolt head remains the same and has not changed.



We are trying to shift from taking orders directly to having our dealers doing the sales of our actions. We are a small outfit and I just do not have the time to make actions and field all the incoming calls. You will be seeing actions showing up at Third Generation Shooters Supply, Trigger Time Gun Club, and a few other dealers within a month or two. In fact we are increasing our production and have just purchased a third Haas CNC mill. We are gearing up and are smoothing out our processes and have our largest batches of parts running through the shop as we speak. I feel our actions are only getting better with the new features and with the more experience I gain making them.

DSCN3338.jpg
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

holy cow
Big Horn Origin and remington stock fit.
Replies
6
Views
179
powdahound76
powdahound76
S
Off the shelf, build or custom shop???
Replies
19
Views
758
LRI
LRI
U
Big Horn Origin barrel
Replies
11
Views
466
6brshooter
6brshooter
M
Failure to fire with AAC Ammunition
Replies
35
Views
338
Cascade Hemi
C
S
SOLD Deep South Tactical 6bra
Replies
2
Views
386
NLyles
N
Top Bottom
Back