Derek Chauvin 'defense'

[...]

I think it's amazing how the disdain for BLM has turned into this ball of contradictions.

Even if you never knew what color George Floyd was, it's pretty hard to ignore the fact that every witness on the ground told the officer that he was going to kill him, and that even a fellow officer suggested easing up on the knee to the neck.

Those are going to be hard details to ignore.

In general, I'm not a fan of police killing unarmed people. But you all's mileage may vary...

so police now need to take orders on restraint techniques from an agry mob of retards?

again, what actual proof is there that the "knee on the neck" was the cause of Floyds death?

autopsy reports show 0 trauma to his neck.......but did show a myriad of health issues, and 4x the lethal dose of fentanyl.

i really dont know how many times i need to repeat myself in this thread before those facts sink into your smooth brains.

 

[theLBC]

guess who is getting rich while getting americans hooked on oxy or other opiates?

yes, our great "doctors" that many of you respect and trust so much.

guess who gets to do legal discovery for a pain intervention company (used to)?

/yes i know there are good and decent humans that practice medicine, just saying...

 

[Solid7]

no, no it is not......if it was, i would have killed a fuck load of people by now....neck holds are a fairly common compliance technique taught in most martial arts.

a simple blood choke is relatively safe and effective.....ive had it done to me, and ive done it to plenty of people.

Chauvins neck restraint restricted neither air nor blood flow......and was a dept approved restraint technique.

So there's no difference between a neck hold in a martial arts environment, vs one applied to an unwilling participant?

I was in an altercation once, and applied a neck hold to someone - fully justified. I was a little surprised at how the amount of adrenaline I was under, made that hold so much more effective. In under 2 seconds, a man was unconscious, convulsing, and drooling out of both sides of his mouth. If I had been up against a trained opponent, they could have held that move for 45-60 seconds, and not thought twice about it.

 

[Solid7]

so police now need to take orders on restraint techniques from an agry mob of retards?

again, what actual proof is there that the "knee on the neck" was the cause of Floyds death?

autopsy reports show 0 trauma to his neck.......but did show a myriad of health issues, and 4x the lethal dose of fentanyl.

i really dont know how many times i need to repeat myself in this thread before those facts sink into your smooth brains.

Would you trust a liberal telling you that Joe Biden won the election fair and square?

What part of your smooth brain fails to understand what happens to the public opinion, when a police officer is involved in a black death? (in any way, shape, or form)

If you're in that part of Minneapolis, and that's the crime is a phony $20, why the fuck do you even bother? Cite him, and let him stay polluted (but alive) in his own hell hole, while he's waiting to appear. Greater crimes than this, get a turn of the head every day. There's no hope of fixing that mess.

I'm also suggesting that no matter how invested you are in being right, there are trained medical professionals, who will still take the stand, and testify that asphyxia was the cause of death. I know that you know better now, then, and in the future. But I don't. And your opinion doesn't matter to me very much. I'll take the facts, as they're best presented. If you go on to suggest a political bias, then I'll also suggest that equally applies. Now, had GF had a gun in his hand, this becomes a different argument. But he didn't. So why would any police department in modern day America, have a policy that allows for such a racially/politically charged shitstorm?

Yes, you do heel to an angry group of retards, when the fallout is not proportional to the reward. It's not really difficult. Doesn't matter what your ideal of policing is... Some things aren't worth the effort. Trying to arrest the ghetto into submission is the epitome of retardation. That's a losing battle. Fuck the ghetto. Leave them alone, but contained.

 

[gedeon]

Would you trust a liberal telling you that Joe Biden won the election fair and square?

What part of your smooth brain fails to understand what happens to the public opinion, when a police officer is involved in a black death? (in any way, shape, or form)

If you're in that part of Minneapolis, and that's the crime is a phony $20, why the fuck do you even bother? Cite him, and let him stay polluted (but alive) in his own hell hole, while he's waiting to appear. Greater crimes than this, get a turn of the head every day. There's no hope of fixing that mess.

I'm also suggesting that no matter how invested you are in being right, there are trained medical professionals, who will still take the stand, and testify that asphyxia was the cause of death. I know that you know better now, then, and in the future. But I don't. And your opinion doesn't matter to me very much. I'll take the facts, as they're best presented. If you go on to suggest a political bias, then I'll also suggest that equally applies. Now, had GF had a gun in his hand, this becomes a different argument. But he didn't. So why would any police department in modern day America, have a policy that allows for such a racially/politically charged shitstorm?

Yes, you do heel to an angry group of retards, when the fallout is not proportional to the reward. It's not really difficult. Doesn't matter what your ideal of policing is... Some things aren't worth the effort. Trying to arrest the ghetto into submission is the epitome of retardation. That's a losing battle. Fuck the ghetto. Leave them alone, but contained.

no

 

[Tree]

Would you trust a liberal telling you that Joe Biden won the election fair and square?

What part of your smooth brain fails to understand what happens to the public opinion, when a police officer is involved in a black death? (in any way, shape, or form)

If you're in that part of Minneapolis, and that's the crime is a phony $20, why the fuck do you even bother? Cite him, and let him stay polluted (but alive) in his own hell hole, while he's waiting to appear. Greater crimes than this, get a turn of the head every day. There's no hope of fixing that mess.

I'm also suggesting that no matter how invested you are in being right, there are trained medical professionals, who will still take the stand, and testify that asphyxia was the cause of death. I know that you know better now, then, and in the future. But I don't. And your opinion doesn't matter to me very much. I'll take the facts, as they're best presented. If you go on to suggest a political bias, then I'll also suggest that equally applies. Now, had GF had a gun in his hand, this becomes a different argument. But he didn't. So why would any police department in modern day America, have a policy that allows for such a racially/politically charged shitstorm?

Yes, you do heel to an angry group of retards, when the fallout is not proportional to the reward. It's not really difficult. Doesn't matter what your ideal of policing is... Some things aren't worth the effort. Trying to arrest the ghetto into submission is the epitome of retardation. That's a losing battle. Fuck the ghetto. Leave them alone, but contained.

Do you understand that the term asphyxia has zero to do with anything other than an inability to get adequate oxygen? It does not mean it was caused by the actions of an officer. But then again when someone has an opinion facts matter little if they are unwilling to listen.

 

[Fig]

So there's no difference between a neck hold in a martial arts environment, vs one applied to an unwilling participant?

I was in an altercation once, and applied a neck hold to someone - fully justified. I was a little surprised at how the amount of adrenaline I was under, made that hold so much more effective. In under 2 seconds, a man was unconscious, convulsing, and drooling out of both sides of his mouth. If I had been up against a trained opponent, they could have held that move for 45-60 seconds, and not thought twice about it.

Motherfucking Phoenix Eye! I knew it! No one could be this badass and know absofuckinloutlyeverything without knowing some Kung-fu moves that incapacitate a tweaking perp in seconds.

Let me guess, was the honor of the Mayor’s daughter involved in this “fully justified” altercation?

 

[chevy_man]

So why don't we just have ourselves a "purge" then? I mean fuck ethics, after all.

I'm no fan of junkies - and I'm hardly a humanitarian, but that doesn't really sound like well thought out logic.

So you're going to take the guy screaming (so he can obviously breathe) during a drug OD and calmly do anything with him?

Not fucking happening.

If he couldn't breathe, it was the O.D. he had going on. More than likely he was lying since he could still yell, repeatedly, and that takes air!

 

[Bullfrog08]

You haven't ever talked to a junkie have you?

There isn't a human thing about most of them. More wild animal, as they demonstrate with the fucked up shit they do every damn day that most ignore.

Talk to a rookie LEO and he'll tell you about all these fucked up stories of crazy shit happening. Talk to the 10+ year LEO that was right beside him and it's just another day at work.

You learn quick that you'll spend 90% of your career dealing with the lowest 10% of the iq range and it'll be the same ones over and over.

I deal with dumbshit in my line of work daily. I still try to always do the right thing. If you cant do the job, then get a new line of work. The end result is that you are doing a job. Disregarding a plea for breathing is a person doing a shit job. Im not saying the guy set out to kill someone that day, but looks to me like he played a roll in it. He/they have accountability.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Can't we just fast forward to the riots?

 

[Bullfrog08]

if my dog ingests 4x the lethal amount of fentanyl....and then you need to put your knee on him to restrain him.....rest assured i will not hold you responsible for my dogs OD.


god this isnt like dads missing keys, where the last person to touch them is responsible.

hell, if i shook Floyds hand, and he died 10 minutes later, am i responsible for his death because i was the last to touch him?

if i bumped into Floyd on the sidewalk, then he died 10 minutes later, am i responsible?

if i put Floyd in a cop car and he died 10 minutes later, am i responsible?

if i had to restrain him on the ground, and he died 10 minutes later, am i responsible?

......where the fuck does this end?......


you cant just say, oh well the officer was the last person to interact, therefore we hold him responsible.......thats bullshit.

the dude had 4x the lethal amount of fentanyl in his system.......he was going to die regardless of what happened next.

you also need to prove the Chauvins actions directly caused floyd to die...not just, " oh he was with him last"........you have to actually medically prove that the knee was the cause of the death, and not the massive amount of drugs in floyds system.

and considering the autopsy showed no signs of trauma to floyds neck......thats going to be a hard one to prove.

I just dont see it so black and white as that. Whats more important, someones life or restraining them/making the arrest? Drugs, no drugs, you detain, you take on the responsibility of their care. They took his right to seek medical care, so now it is their problem. A knee on the back while someone begs for air.....not good. Regardless if there was a breathing issue or not.

I think there are two views on this.....I forsee a hung jury.

If the video showed him roll him over, try help him with breathing issues, then we are not even having this conversation.

Oh, and im all for losers leaving this world asap. The guy contributed little to society.

 

[Solid7]

I deal with dumbshit in my line of work daily. I still try to always do the right thing. If you cant do the job, then get a new line of work. The end result is that you are doing a job. Disregarding a plea for breathing is a person doing a shit job. Im not saying the guy set out to kill someone that day, but looks to me like he played a roll in it. He/they have accountability.

Thank you. That's absolutely the point.

 

[Solid7]

Do you understand that the term asphyxia has zero to do with anything other than an inability to get adequate oxygen? It does not mean it was caused by the actions of an officer. But then again when someone has an opinion facts matter little if they are unwilling to listen.

Yo, Dr Tree... If I knew as well as you do, I'd probably be one of the "experts" testifying.

What I do know, is that there will be multiple doctors testifying that the asphyxia that was induced, was (mechanical) trauma related. And I know that you'll choose which side you want to believe, based on whatever Fox News tells you to believe.

I'm pretty fucking convinced that I saw an officer involved death (worst case), or an unwise escalation (at best).

Like everything in this matter, it's all about who is picking what battles. Not all are well chosen.

 

[Solid7]

Motherfucking Phoenix Eye! I knew it! No one could be this badass and know absofuckinloutlyeverything without knowing some Kung-fu moves that incapacitate a tweaking perp in seconds.

Let me guess, was the honor of the Mayor’s daughter involved in this “fully justified” altercation?

If he was as high as you want to believe he was, I would have just waited for him to OD on his own. Would have saved a lot of trouble.

Not really sure what the rest of your typical Karen babble rant was all about.

 

[thejeep]

If only the medics could have gotten there sooner and given George a large dose of lasix by mistake of course. Then they could all stand around and laugh on video as George let out a huge 3 liter uncontrolled explosion of piss everywhere. Right before he died.

 

[chevy_man]

I deal with dumbshit in my line of work daily. I still try to always do the right thing. If you cant do the job, then get a new line of work. The end result is that you are doing a job. Disregarding a plea for breathing is a person doing a shit job. Im not saying the guy set out to kill someone that day, but looks to me like he played a roll in it. He/they have accountability.

Ignoring the pleas of a man desperate to attempt an escape, the same man that "couldn't breathe" while he was sitting in the car. Sure, he had a role, he just happened to try and arrest the idiot during his O.D.

Was the right thing to stand him up and let him stumble away to tip over in the gutter and die? He was a dead man walking!



It baffles me how anyone could see them doing any different. The idiot had been lying to officers since the moment they showed up. He was obviously capable of speech and breathing, and was trying to escape. It's criminal 101 to cry about breathing and then try running off. I would venture to bet any experienced officer has heard that from damn near everyone they've had to forcibly detain in the last few years.

 

[...]

I just dont see it so black and white as that. Whats more important, someones life or restraining them/making the arrest? Drugs, no drugs, you detain, you take on the responsibility of their care. They took his right to seek medical care, so now it is their problem. A knee on the back while someone begs for air.....not good. Regardless if there was a breathing issue or not.

they literally called the dude an ambulance.....what the fuck are you talking about?

if im OD'ing, and then break the law....and a cop arrests me.....its not the cops fault if i cant make it to the hospital because of my own actions.

you could argue the cops have a responsibility to call EMS......which they did in this case.......but the cops dont all of a sudden become God and able to control all aspects of the dudes life.

more importantly, if they didnt restrain him...and he ran into traffic because he was high on drugs, and got hit by a car......all you limp wrists would be on here bitching and moaning because the cops didnt properly restrain him and prevent him from hurting himself.

 

[chrome]

I've been watching where I can. No expert by any means, but if I was a juror, "beyond a reasonable doubt" hasn't been satisfied in my mind yet.

 

[...]

I deal with dumbshit in my line of work daily. I still try to always do the right thing. If you cant do the job, then get a new line of work. The end result is that you are doing a job. Disregarding a plea for breathing is a person doing a shit job. Im not saying the guy set out to kill someone that day, but looks to me like he played a roll in it. He/they have accountability.

jesus christ there is no way you can be this dense.........the dude was claiming he couldnt breath before the cops even touched him.

and every scum bag for the past 10 years has been yelling "i cant breath" whenever they get arrested........should cops just let them all go?

fucking hell man.....

 

[BullGear]

I deal with dumbshit in my line of work daily. I still try to always do the right thing. If you cant do the job, then get a new line of work. The end result is that you are doing a job. Disregarding a plea for breathing is a person doing a shit job. Im not saying the guy set out to kill someone that day, but looks to me like he played a roll in it. He/they have accountability.

How many times do you think a police officer hears that? "I can't breathe" is probably one of the most common things the bad guy can say to get the cop off of them. Then all bets are off, now he may have a fighting chance.

The fact that Floyd was saying it BEFORE he was put on the ground would make it seem that this was just the 1001st time this officer had heard it.

Would the narrative had changed if they had loaded Floyd into their car and he died while in the back seat? No, it's the cop's fault.

 

[Tchitcherine]

Attention smart people: if the knee to the neck killed Mr. Floyd, then why has the Prosecution not claimed as much, e.g. either in their opening statement, or as shown by any factual evidence to support such a claim? And further, where is the claim that whatever conduct might (or not) be attributed such unspecified cause-and-effect itself was unlawful?

 

[Bullfrog08]

jesus christ there is no way you can be this dense.........the dude was claiming he couldnt breath before the cops even touched him.

and every scum bag for the past 10 years has been yelling "i cant breath" whenever they get arrested........should cops just let them all go?

fucking hell man.....

jesus christ there is no way you can be this dense.........the dude was claiming he couldnt breath before the cops even touched him.

and every scum bag for the past 10 years has been yelling "i cant breath" whenever they get arrested........should cops just let them all go?

fucking hell man.....

"Stop resisting, stop resisting, stop resisting"......same same, no?

Youre not changing my mind, and im not anymore dense than yourself. Just have to agree to disagree.

Lets say moving forward, youre in the same situation....what do you do?

 

[Solid7]

I still fail to understand why anyone - here or elsewhere - is so invested in arresting a hood rat, in his own hood, and running him through the system, for such a fucking insignificant offense. We don't even punish real criminals in this country. What the fuck good do you think you're gonna do with a hard drug user, whose crimes were being high, and trying to pass monopoly money?

Derek Chauvin is a colossal idiot. Write him a ticket, tell him to fuck off back home - or wherever. God knows the prosecutor probably isn't interested in prosecuting, anyway. And counterfeiting is a federal crime, so let them deal with it. Instead, this dude fucked his entire life up, by creating a political firestorm, in an already hot button environment, on an absolutely incendiary issue. 2 dudes now have no life - and I'm not even referring to GF's death, because he wasn't really alive, anyway. He wasn't fucking worth the encounter. In a zone full of zombies, it wasn't worth the tax dollars to even attempt an arrest. Officer discretion, ZERO.

For what it's worth, the black community can't expect everyone else to clean up their toxic dump of a mess. They gotta want it worse than the people living under so-called "privilege" - who don't tolerate that shit from their own. Unfortunately, white America is headed into the ghetto, too, so maybe some of us will soon see this from a different perspective.

 

[Solid7]

Attention smart people: if the knee to the neck killed Mr. Floyd, then why has the Prosecution not claimed as much, e.g. either in their opening statement, or as shown by any factual evidence to support such a claim? And further, where is the claim that whatever conduct might (or not) be attributed such unspecified cause-and-effect itself was unlawful?

Hey, dumb guy... Might want to read actual prosecutor statements, and not Fox News soundbites.

For reference, the prosecutors name is Jerry Blackwell... And here are a smattering of actual opening statement quotes.

=======
Moments before showing that image, Blackwell presented the oath that Minneapolis police officers swear to follow. "I will enforce the law courteously and appropriately ... never employing unnecessary force or violence," a highlighted portion of the oath reads. In another highlighted portion, officers promise, "I recognize the badge of my office as a symbol of public faith, and I accept it as a public trust to be held so long as I am true to the ethics of the police service."

"Despite Chauvin being told twice that Floyd did not have a pulse, "he does not let up, and he does not get up," Blackwell said. He added that the officer did not move off Floyd even as a paramedic sought a pulse. It wasn't until a gurney was brought to remove Floyd's body that Chauvin lifted his weight off Floyd, Blackwell said."
=====


Those are the statements that are going to condemn Derek Chauvin... You are arguing that he never explicitly states that a knee to the neck killed George Floyd. And maybe that is, or is not correct - I'm not that invested to break it down like a pundit. The accusation is that excessive force was a direct contributor to the death, and that the stress of the excessive force, exacerbated existing conditions. He will also argue that it wasn't the drugs that killed GF, and will present witnesses to the same. (they have to stand up to the rigor of testimony, not you or I)

The prosecution will also put it into (proper) perspective, by stating:

=====
"It was about a counterfeit $20 bill that was used at a convenience store" — a misdemeanor. He later added that Floyd died in police custody despite not attempting to flee or harm anyone else.


"There were five grown men, armed police officers, who were on the scene over a fake $20 bill,"
=====


So right back up there to that statement about the office being a "symbol of public faith".

This dude is SO SCREWED. Doesn't matter what you think about politics, race, whatever. If that's really what the oath of office states, and this is what went down, he's done. And it's honestly his own fault.

 

[Solid7]

There is little reason to believe that Derek Chauvin committed 2nd degree murder, but I think that's just how badly they want a prosecution. There is no way that they're going to settle for less than the lowest charge - which is the one they'll actually be gunning for. (aim high, hit low)

If this man is acquitted, everyone knows that America is going to be on fire for weeks.

 

[Tchitcherine]

Hey, dumb guy... Might want to read actual prosecutor statements, and not Fox News soundbites.

For reference, the prosecutors name is Jerry Blackwell...

Moments before showing that image, Blackwell presented the oath that Minneapolis police officers swear to follow. "I will enforce the law courteously and appropriately ... never employing unnecessary force or violence," a highlighted portion of the oath reads. In another highlighted portion, officers promise, "I recognize the badge of my office as a symbol of public faith, and I accept it as a public trust to be held so long as I am true to the ethics of the police service."

"Despite Chauvin being told twice that Floyd did not have a pulse, "he does not let up, and he does not get up," Blackwell said. He added that the officer did not move off Floyd even as a paramedic sought a pulse. It wasn't until a gurney was brought to remove Floyd's body that Chauvin lifted his weight off Floyd, Blackwell said."

Those are the statements that are going to condemn Derek Chauvin... You are arguing that he never explicitly states that a knee to the neck killed George Floyd. And maybe that is, or is not correct - I'm not that invested to break it down like a pundit. The accusation is that excessive force was a direct contributor to the death, and that the stress of the excessive force, exacerbated existing conditions. He will also argue that it wasn't the drugs that killed GF, and will present witnesses to the same. (they have to stand up to the rigor of testimony, not you or I)

The prosecution will also put it into (proper) perspective, by stating:

"It was about a counterfeit $20 bill that was used at a convenience store" — a misdemeanor. He later added that Floyd died in police custody despite not attempting to flee or harm anyone else.


"There were five grown men, armed police officers, who were on the scene over a fake $20 bill,"

So right back up there to that statement about the office being a "symbol of public faith".

This dude is SO SCREWED. Doesn't matter what you think about politics, race, whatever. If that's really what the oath of office states, and this is what went down, he's done. And it's honestly his own fault.

Appreciate the bold text, but there's no statement of cause of death. Just a vague allusion to excessive force as a contributor to the death, wrapped in sensational language.

Chauvin may be screwed, but the prosecution is flailing. In particular, today Attorney Schleiter committed several own goals during presentation of State's witnesses, particularly 1) MPD Lt. Mercil, use-of-force trainer, and 2) MPD Officer MacKenzie, medical support coordinator. Defense announced they will recall the latter as their own witness.

Whether the jury can think critically and/or comprehend cause and effect is a different matter.

As for the topic here, it looks like Attorney Nelson is doing a damn good job in cross examination in defense of his client..

 

[Solid7]

Appreciate the bold text, but there's no statement of cause of death. Just a vague allusion to excessive force as a contributor to the death, wrapped in sensational language.

Chauvin may be screwed, but the prosecution is flailing. In particular, today Attorney Schleiter committed several own goals during presentation of State's witnesses, particularly 1) MPD Lt. Mercil, use-of-force trainer, and 2) MPD Officer MacKenzie, medical support coordinator. Defense announced they will recall the latter as their own witness.

Whether the jury can think critically and/or comprehend cause and effect is a different matter.

As for the topic here, it looks like Attorney Nelson is doing a damn good job in cross examination in defense of his client..

All fair points, and duly noted. I concede that you are correct in this.

What will be extremely problematic, is that that the "sensational language" is pointing to "excessive force", which is much more subjective than the actual cause of death, and secondarily, that GF died in police custody (which is already beyond reasonable doubt). The average person is not likely to consider this a coincidence, and will be far more sympathetic to the prosecution, given the (relatively) inconsequential nature of the crime.

 

[...]

Hey, dumb guy... Might want to read actual prosecutor statements, and not Fox News soundbites.

For reference, the prosecutors name is Jerry Blackwell... And here are a smattering of actual opening statement quotes.

=======
Moments before showing that image, Blackwell presented the oath that Minneapolis police officers swear to follow. "I will enforce the law courteously and appropriately ... never employing unnecessary force or violence," a highlighted portion of the oath reads. In another highlighted portion, officers promise, "I recognize the badge of my office as a symbol of public faith, and I accept it as a public trust to be held so long as I am true to the ethics of the police service."

"Despite Chauvin being told twice that Floyd did not have a pulse, "he does not let up, and he does not get up," Blackwell said. He added that the officer did not move off Floyd even as a paramedic sought a pulse. It wasn't until a gurney was brought to remove Floyd's body that Chauvin lifted his weight off Floyd, Blackwell said."
=====


Those are the statements that are going to condemn Derek Chauvin... You are arguing that he never explicitly states that a knee to the neck killed George Floyd. And maybe that is, or is not correct - I'm not that invested to break it down like a pundit. The accusation is that excessive force was a direct contributor to the death, and that the stress of the excessive force, exacerbated existing conditions. He will also argue that it wasn't the drugs that killed GF, and will present witnesses to the same. (they have to stand up to the rigor of testimony, not you or I)

The prosecution will also put it into (proper) perspective, by stating:

=====
"It was about a counterfeit $20 bill that was used at a convenience store" — a misdemeanor. He later added that Floyd died in police custody despite not attempting to flee or harm anyone else.


"There were five grown men, armed police officers, who were on the scene over a fake $20 bill,"
=====


So right back up there to that statement about the office being a "symbol of public faith".

This dude is SO SCREWED. Doesn't matter what you think about politics, race, whatever. If that's really what the oath of office states, and this is what went down, he's done. And it's honestly his own fault.

You are a fucking moron

"Hur dur all over a $20"

No, it's because he was a habitual offender....breaking the law.....again.....high on drugs.....again.....a danger to himself and others....again


The $20 is just the reason they were called to the scene.....Floyds actions are why he's dead now, not the cops

Hell, there isn't really any evidence to suggest chauvin even used "excessive force"......

But there is plenty of evidence to show Floyd had enough drugs in his system to kill 4 healthy people.......and seeing as he was not even a healthy person to start with, seems like that's the more likely cause of his death

 

[Solid7]

You are a fucking moron

Wow, that's heavy, bro... (maybe "scro" would be more appropriate)

 

[Tree]

Hey, dumb guy... Might want to read actual prosecutor statements, and not Fox News soundbites.

For reference, the prosecutors name is Jerry Blackwell... And here are a smattering of actual opening statement quotes.

=======
Moments before showing that image, Blackwell presented the oath that Minneapolis police officers swear to follow. "I will enforce the law courteously and appropriately ... never employing unnecessary force or violence," a highlighted portion of the oath reads. In another highlighted portion, officers promise, "I recognize the badge of my office as a symbol of public faith, and I accept it as a public trust to be held so long as I am true to the ethics of the police service."

"Despite Chauvin being told twice that Floyd did not have a pulse, "he does not let up, and he does not get up," Blackwell said. He added that the officer did not move off Floyd even as a paramedic sought a pulse. It wasn't until a gurney was brought to remove Floyd's body that Chauvin lifted his weight off Floyd, Blackwell said."
=====


Those are the statements that are going to condemn Derek Chauvin... You are arguing that he never explicitly states that a knee to the neck killed George Floyd. And maybe that is, or is not correct - I'm not that invested to break it down like a pundit. The accusation is that excessive force was a direct contributor to the death, and that the stress of the excessive force, exacerbated existing conditions. He will also argue that it wasn't the drugs that killed GF, and will present witnesses to the same. (they have to stand up to the rigor of testimony, not you or I)

The prosecution will also put it into (proper) perspective, by stating:

=====
"It was about a counterfeit $20 bill that was used at a convenience store" — a misdemeanor. He later added that Floyd died in police custody despite not attempting to flee or harm anyone else.


"There were five grown men, armed police officers, who were on the scene over a fake $20 bill,"
=====


So right back up there to that statement about the office being a "symbol of public faith".

This dude is SO SCREWED. Doesn't matter what you think about politics, race, whatever. If that's really what the oath of office states, and this is what went down, he's done. And it's honestly his own fault.

Nowhere in the above statement does it indicate murder. It nearly implies a violation of oath. You continue to reference a misdemeanor passing of a counterfeit $20 bill but fail to point out an individual high on meth and fentanyl was behind the wheel of a motor vehicle. Which is also an arrest able offense. Maybe the officers should have given him his ticket and let him drive off to possibly kill some innocent children or grandmother crossing the street.
Seems you are focusing on what you choose to focus on and ignore all other facts.
Good on you for arguing with no facts of the officer murdering someone.

 

[Solid7]

Nowhere in the above statement does it indicate murder. It nearly implies a violation of oath. You continue to reference a misdemeanor passing of a counterfeit $20 bill but fail to point out an individual high on meth and fentanyl was behind the wheel of a motor vehicle. Which is also an arrest able offense. Maybe the officers should have given him his ticket and let him drive off to possibly kill some innocent children or grandmother crossing the street.
Seems you are focusing on what you choose to focus on and ignore all other facts.
Good on you for arguing with no facts of the officer murdering someone.

Did he actually drive away? Do any of the other details of the incident matter to you? (including when the officer's colleagues tried to intervene to get Chauvin to ease up)

I didn't say the officer committed murder. I even said I don't think that the prosecution expects a murder charge to stick. But as far as officer involvement in the death, here is something pertinent:

"Prosecutors don't have to prove that Chauvin's actions alone caused Floyd's death, according to Minnesota guidelines for jury instructions. According to the state and the defense's proposed jury instructions, " 'To cause' means to be a substantial causal factor in causing the death. … The fact that other causes contribute to the death does not relieve the defendant of criminal liability.""

 

[Tchitcherine]

All fair points, and duly noted. I concede that you are correct in this.

What will be extremely problematic, is that that the "sensational language" is pointing to "excessive force", which is much more subjective than the actual cause of death, and secondarily, that GF died in police custody (which is already beyond reasonable doubt). The average person is not likely to consider this a coincidence, and will be far more sympathetic to the prosecution, given the (relatively) inconsequential nature of the crime.

The interesting part to me is how, despite all the furor, the course and outcome of the trial are far from certain. The devil is in the details, and as the details emerge, the knowledge of the events evolves. Still, rioting seems likely regardless of the verdict, which can only compound the scope and depth of tragedy.

 

[Solid7]

Seems you are focusing on what you choose to focus on and ignore all other facts.

That is some classic irony right there. Read the room, fella.

 

[kriller134]

I was thinking if I was selected as a juror for this case I’d find any way to get thrown off. There’s no winning here. If you’re responsible for a hung jury it’ll come out sooner or later and your life is fucked. These scumbag woke assholes will dox you and threaten your family.

 

[Solid7]

Still, rioting seems likely regardless of the verdict, which can only compound the scope and depth of tragedy.

Which makes it all the more baffling that trained police officers in 2020 could get themselves into this situation. In almost any profession in America today, we are taught that "perception is the new reality". It should be driven home that much harder in public sector jobs.

If police aren't able to do their jobs properly in a given locale, then perhaps their services need to be reconsidered, where they are least effective, and focused more heavily where they are most beneficial.

Either way, America can't afford this problem any longer.

 

[chevy_man]

Did he actually drive away? Do any of the other details of the incident matter to you? (including when the officer's colleagues tried to intervene to get Chauvin to ease up)

I didn't say the officer committed murder. I even said I don't think that the prosecution expects a murder charge to stick. But as far as officer involvement in the death, here is something pertinent:

"Prosecutors don't have to prove that Chauvin's actions alone caused Floyd's death, according to Minnesota guidelines for jury instructions. According to the state and the defense's proposed jury instructions, " 'To cause' means to be a substantial causal factor in causing the death. … The fact that other causes contribute to the death does not relieve the defendant of criminal liability.""

Seems to many that enough fentanyl to kill a horse would be the cause. Not sure anything is a contributing factor after you willfully take beyond lethal amounts of drugs.


I hope you're trolling and you're not this dense in "real life".

 

[Solid7]

Seems to many that enough fentanyl to kill a horse would be the cause. Not sure anything is a contributing factor after you willfully take beyond lethal amounts of drugs.


I hope you're trolling and you're not this dense in "real life".

The autopsy did not conclude that fentanyl was the cause of death. In fact, for whatever you want to believe the actual cause of death was, the doctor who conducted the autopsy, is on record, thusly:

"Baker ruled the manner of death a homicide, a death that occurs at the hands of another person."

If by "that dense in real life", you mean that I consider the evidence, instead of adopting a cable news opinion, then yeah, that'd be me.

 

[UKDslayer]

The autopsy DID find 4x the lethal dose of fentanyl in his system...along with heart disease.....and a tumor that caused him to secrete excess adrenaline...

Floyd was FOAMING AT THE MOUTH before officers even arrived on scene and was complaining he couldnt breath before he was even placed on the ground...floyd was in the process of dying from an OD before police arrived.

Don't forget the fact he KNEW he had the deadly Covid (contributory?) and wasn't wearing a mask - he was putting everyone near him at jeopardy. Surprised Chauvin didn't get the virus..

 

[UKDslayer]

Sorta out-of-the-blue, but bear with me here. A LOT of years ago, right here on the 'Hide, there was a video. IIRC, it was of a few Hide members getting together out of a challenge, and they 'waterboarded' each other. Because of all the hullaballoo in the media at the time, about how 'bad' waterboarding was.

And right here, those 'Hide members proved (any viewer) wrong.

HOpefully some of you folks here, have been here long enough to remember that 'era'.

Good times!! That was Todd R. @ SHC when it was held down at RO. We won't say who was doing the waterboarding...but afterward Todd said "Obama I think thats gonna work"

 

[Solid7]

But there is plenty of evidence to show Floyd had enough drugs in his system to kill 4 healthy people.......and seeing as he was not even a healthy person to start with, seems like that's the more likely cause of his death

4 healthy people don't do drugs. Any addict, alcoholic, etc, will efficiently process more of the choice substance, than any non-user. Stupid argument. And any trained officer in an urban area, should be able to spot an OD, and react accordingly. So even stupider. Unfortunately, we haven't yet been cleared to euthanize junkies on sight. There is still an expectation that they receive appropriate medical attention (of which sitting on them doesn't count). So you'll have to get used to that.

I guess you missed the statement that the officer failed to remove himself from GF, until he (GF) was placed (dead) on the stretcher.

Listen, buddy, you're clearly the expert. And when the trial is over, if the medical expert testimony suggests contrary to your own opinion, you'll still hold fast. Because somehow, when you have a position, your mind doesn't change, regardless of anyone else's input. That's fine. Just get your ass out there, and do something to clean up the mess when it's over. If you think this situation was OK, and couldn't have been handled any better, then for the love of Krist, fucking help out the innocent bystanders who are gonna get hit in the fucking aftermath. That's your obligation for refusing to even consider any accountability on the part of the officer. Otherwise, shut your gob. Actions have consequences, and this officer's failure to consider his own, led to this epic shit show. (as if we didn't have historical precedent for it)

 

[LawnMM]

floyd was already cuffed and basically helpless

Handcuffs don't make you helpless, at all. I've been assaulted, at the felony level, twice, both times by *wait for it* PEOPLE IN HANDCUFFS.

Both times resulted in an ER visit for me and the bad guy.

 

[theLBC]

Handcuffs don't make you helpless, at all. I've been assaulted, at the felony level, twice, both times by *wait for it* PEOPLE IN HANDCUFFS.

Both times resulted in an ER visit for me and the bad guy.

sorry, didn't realize how vulnerable you were to a cuffed assailant on his belly while he is restrained by other officers.

 

[TurboTrout]

This whole case seems like a instance when two scum buckets collided

It’s a shame Floyd wasn’t dealt with before he held a gun to a pregnant woman’s belly

For officer dumbass, it’s a shame they have immunity and the band wagons circle so well, otherwise he’d probably would have MAYBE been a security guard at walmart years ago.

Those two deserved each other.

 

[quietmike]

I think it's amazing how the disdain for BLM has turned into this ball of contradictions.

Even if you never knew what color George Floyd was, it's pretty hard to ignore the fact that every witness on the ground told the officer that he was going to kill him, and that even a fellow officer suggested easing up on the knee to the neck.

Those are going to be hard details to ignore.

In general, I'm not a fan of police killing unarmed people. But you all's mileage may vary...

Which businesses were burned and liquor stores looted over Tony Timpa?

 

[TurboTrout]

go try to arrest some cracked out felons then come back here and lecture us on "ethics".

"hur dur the cops handled the woman abuser too roughly, hur dur"

why dont you tell us who is more "unethical".....the cop who used a dept approved restraint technique to control a potentially dangerous suspect.

oooooor a cracked out felon who OD'd trying to hide his stash because he didnt want to go back to jail.


jesus christ.......fucking retards are out in force over this douche bag........

So the standard I should hold police to is that of a crackhead?

I expect more.

I don’t need a two years community college AJ degree, or a power point on use of force to say that hanging out on that dudes neck was a...bad look, don’t think it caused his death, but it sure didn’t help, and the cop was a idiot and not mentally right doing it, he should get loved tenderly in prison for it, god knows the state has cast the lives of private citizens into ruin for far less.

If police don’t want to be held to that standard, lots of other jobs, though they probably don’t have the same level of bennies

 

[Swatman]

#1 you should be able to place someone in custody without them dying
#2 this never would have happened if Floyd complied

 

[LawnMM]

sorry, didn't realize how vulnerable you were to a cuffed assailant on his belly while he is restrained by other officers.

That's okay, I'm used to blanket statements made by people with zero frame of reference besides YouTube.

 

[...]

Question for all the autistics...

If I am being arrested, and I get placed on the ground and restrained....but I manage to bite a cyanide capsule and kill myself.....is that the officers fault??

If not...why does it all of a sudden become the officers fault if I happen to use 4x the lethal dose of fentanyl instead of cyanide?

 

[atomic41]

Question for all the autistics...

If I am being arrested, and I get placed on the ground and restrained....but I manage to bite a cyanide capsule and kill myself.....is that the officers fault??

If not...why does it all of a sudden become the officers fault if I happen to use 4x the lethal dose of fentanyl instead of cyanide?

We have heard multiple times by the mouthbreathers in this thread that the actual cause of death is irrelevant, the officer needs to go to jail because of...feelings.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

I will bet that if Chauvin had taken another position that the drugged, cuffed and about to die Floyd was not going to jump up and kick ass like Chuck Norris.