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Did CheyTac ammo almost blow up me and my DTA HTI today?

S

secondofangle

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 8, 2008
229
3
Utah
Range day with the 375. Tested my initial reloads which will be reported in another thread running under Reloading.

Today's testing confirms previous observations that the 350 SMKs from Cheytac shoot very well. The group below on the left is 5 shots with these. The 3 were all touching and I took a break and I could hear Lowlight saying 3 shot groups are for sissies, so I shot the other 2 and it opened up a bit.

At 32 degrees, these are chronographing at 3100-3125. In the field with it a little warmer in early December, like in the 50s, they were shooting at 1600 yards as though they were going 3150 with the advertised BC of 0.81

The 350 grain Balanced Flight Projectile from CheyTac I can't get to shoot worth a darn as the group on the right demonstrates.

Every now and again, I think 3 times today over the 26 factory rounds I shot, one would seem notably hotter. Two had heavy bolt lift. All the brass have ejector marks, some worse than others, depends somewhat on where in the circumference the ejector strikes. Primers are flat but not squared off.

The final shot I made (because I had to stop) seemed quite hot - it was one of the 350 SMKs. [Among the subjectively "hot" rounds I shot (3 of them that I distinctly recall) I cannot recall which were SMKs and which were copper solids, but I shot about 18-20 SMKs and only 6-8 solids, because the latter shoot for shit.] When I lifted to bolt on the final SMK, the case did not come out and indeed, it pulled the extractor out of the bolt. Whoa.

I loaded the rifle in the truck thinking I'll have to tap out the case with a rod when I get home, then I learned that I could put the extractor back in the bolt. After I did that, I recycled the bolt and it pulled out the case pictured below which is ruptured right above the base. Yikes.

I kinda wish I had tried shooting it again, but the truck was loaded. Also, I figure I should speak with both CT and DTA before shooting it again, just to make sure they don't have any recommendations.

Here's the ruptured case and the head of the case. Interestingly, there ain't much of an ejector mark on it.
<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140112_164328934_zps8iwuiqcd.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140112_164328934_zps8iwuiqcd.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140112_164328934_zps8iwuiqcd.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140112_171528093_zpso8rh5dri.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140112_171528093_zpso8rh5dri.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140112_171528093_zpso8rh5dri.jpg"/></a>

Another shot of the head of the ruptured case. You can barely see the ejector mark on the star and the "JA". On the "CH" you can see another mark in the area of the extractor that I was having trouble understanding until I looked carefully at the extractor as in the next photo.
<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/IMG_20140112_180019305_zpsbwzwa903.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/IMG_20140112_180019305_zpsbwzwa903.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140112_180019305_zpsbwzwa903.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/IMG_20140112_180958449_zpsbqy4cwrk.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/IMG_20140112_180958449_zpsbqy4cwrk.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140112_180958449_zpsbqy4cwrk.jpg"/></a>

Here's the lot of the ammo:
<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140112_172546164_zpsuic8yhq3.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140112_172546164_zpsuic8yhq3.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140112_172546164_zpsuic8yhq3.jpg"/></a>

Here's another case that felt hot. The ejector mark nearly obliterated the "CH" in Cheytac
<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/IMG_20140112_175646925_zpspwgaaple.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/IMG_20140112_175646925_zpspwgaaple.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140112_175646925_zpspwgaaple.jpg"/></a>

Here's the extractor that came out of the bolt (DTA sponsors the local range and there's a plate in the bench I was shooting on)
<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140112_162824322_zpsux7xedju.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140112_162824322_zpsux7xedju.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140112_162824322_zpsux7xedju.jpg"/></a>

Here's the target of representative groups for the SMK on the left and the copper solid on the right:
<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/3227f3e2-6fce-4f00-bd5c-fe2dc57861f7_zpsea971c13.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/Mobile%20Uploads/3227f3e2-6fce-4f00-bd5c-fe2dc57861f7_zpsea971c13.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 3227f3e2-6fce-4f00-bd5c-fe2dc57861f7_zpsea971c13.jpg"/></a>
 
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I would get it checked out first, that is a stick of dynamite under you cheek and I would not push it.

secondofangle said:
Range day with the 375. Tested my initial reloads which will be reported in another thread running under Reloading.

Today's testing confirms previous observations that the 350 SMKs from Cheytac shoot very well. The group below on the left is 5 shots with these. The 3 were all touching and I took a break and I could hear Lowlight saying 3 shot groups are for sissies, so I shot the other 2 and it opened up a bit.

At 32 degrees, these are chronographing at 3100-3125. In the field with it a little warmer in early December, like in the 50s, they were shooting at 1600 yards as though they were going 3150 with the advertised BC of 0.81

The 350 grain Balanced Flight Projectile from CheyTac I can't get to shoot worth a darn as the group on the right demonstrates.

Every now and again, I think 3 times today over the 26 factory rounds I shot, one would seem notably hotter. Two had heavy bolt lift. All the brass have ejector marks, some worse than others, depends somewhat on where in the circumference the ejector strikes. Primers are flat but not squared off.

The final shot I made (because I had to stop) seemed quite hot. When I lifted to bolt, the case did not come out and indeed, it pulled the extractor out of the bolt. Whoa.

I loaded the rifle in the truck thinking I'll have to tap out the case with a rod when I get home, then I learned that I could put the extractor back in the bolt. After I did that, I recycled the bolt and it pulled out the case pictured below which is ruptured right above the base. Yikes.

I kinda wish I had tried shooting it again, but the truck was loaded. Also, I figure I should speak with both CT and DTA before shooting it again, just to make sure they don't have any recommendations.

Here's the ruptured case and the head of the case. Interestingly, there ain't much of an ejector mark on it.
<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140112_164328934_zps8iwuiqcd.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140112_164328934_zps8iwuiqcd.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140112_164328934_zps8iwuiqcd.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140112_171528093_zpso8rh5dri.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140112_171528093_zpso8rh5dri.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140112_171528093_zpso8rh5dri.jpg"/></a>

Another shot of the head of the ruptured case. You can barely see the ejector mark on the star and the "JA". On the "CH" you can see another mark in the area of the extractor that I was having trouble understanding until I looked carefully at the extractor as in the next photo.
<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/IMG_20140112_180019305_zpsbwzwa903.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/IMG_20140112_180019305_zpsbwzwa903.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140112_180019305_zpsbwzwa903.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/IMG_20140112_180958449_zpsbqy4cwrk.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/IMG_20140112_180958449_zpsbqy4cwrk.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140112_180958449_zpsbqy4cwrk.jpg"/></a>

Here's the lot of the ammo:
<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140112_172546164_zpsuic8yhq3.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140112_172546164_zpsuic8yhq3.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140112_172546164_zpsuic8yhq3.jpg"/></a>

Here's another case that felt hot. The ejector mark nearly obliterated the "CH" in Cheytac
<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/IMG_20140112_175646925_zpspwgaaple.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/IMG_20140112_175646925_zpspwgaaple.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140112_175646925_zpspwgaaple.jpg"/></a>

Here's the extractor that came out of the bolt (DTA sponsors the local range and there's a plate in the bench I was shooting on)
<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140112_162824322_zpsux7xedju.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140112_162824322_zpsux7xedju.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140112_162824322_zpsux7xedju.jpg"/></a>

Here's the target of representative groups for the SMK on the left and the copper solid on the right:
<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/3227f3e2-6fce-4f00-bd5c-fe2dc57861f7_zpsea971c13.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/Mobile%20Uploads/3227f3e2-6fce-4f00-bd5c-fe2dc57861f7_zpsea971c13.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 3227f3e2-6fce-4f00-bd5c-fe2dc57861f7_zpsea971c13.jpg"/></a>
Click to expand...
 
Damn.... not another thread on the same problems. I'm glad you weren't hurt. There is another thread with another member having the same issue (mabey a little worse) with his .308. I sure hope it's not all happening as a result of the ammo shortages (panic buys) and the manuf.'s/suppliers cutting corners or over looking quality control trying to keep up with demand.

LRI... I've never heard anythin about CheyTac being a problem company would you care to explain? I have read the post where they didn't award the prize gun but that's all I've heard. I have a friend looking at their platform in a .300 or .338.

Dave
 
Judging by your group and the pressure you ran into I would say your bore is not set up for the cheytac bullets. Bet you have a standard bore set up for lead core or bullets like the cutting edge with relief grooves around it.
 
RWSGunsmithing said:
Judging by your group and the pressure you ran into I would say your bore is not set up for the cheytac bullets. Bet you have a standard bore set up for lead core or bullets like the cutting edge with relief grooves around it.
Click to expand...

The reported case rupture was with teh 350 grain Sierra MatchKing loads from CheyTac
 
Not surprising the ruptured case does not have an ejector mark; pressure was vented by the breech in the casewall.
 
There sure is a lot of confusion surrounding CheytacUSA and their 375CT offerings. I've had more than one customer that has been quite displeased with them. There doesn't seem to be a solid consensus on what exactly they are selling over there, as far as what it works in and what it doesn't. However, that has nothing to do with dropping too much powder in a case and causing dangerous over-pressure.

Just to be clear, it was a factory loaded round from Cheytac that 'sploded?

For what it's worth, I've never had to look past DTM for factory 375CT ammo. They are running the cutting edge bullets, and Russ is loading them. Tough to get better than that!
 
I had similar case ruptures with Jamison brass in a different caliber. It turns out there brass was set back 0.030 at the shoulder. I read in your thread in the reloading section that you said your resized cases fit easily into the chamber. Is it possible your having a similar problem for the same reasons?

Sent from my Huawei-U8665 using Tapatalk 2
 
Captech International

I looked at the Jameson Brass site and looked at the cases they sell for the 375 CheyTac and they look kinda odd. If you look at the rim there is a ring in the same area that your had a problem with there is also a ring around the first shoulder of the case. I am wondering if there is an issue with that. I say that because I was shooting my 44mag this past summer and I had some older Winchester SuperX factory rounds and they were all over the place shooting 5-6in groups at 50yds and were also hard to get out of the cylinder, not paying too much attention I shot another 6rds and same thing except they would not come out and I had to slam the extractor rod against the bench to get them out and found that they were splitting 50% of the length of the case. I looked at the other rounds and found that they (made that way according to Win.) had a second crimp in the case after the bullet and that area was turning dark and some even looked corroded (real dark) on the second crimp. I just happend to look at their site and seen the case on it's side and seen the dark lines in the case and that was my first thought that came to mind and wondered if it could be a weak spot.

Dave
 
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OpsO said:
I had similar case ruptures with Jamison brass in a different caliber. It turns out there brass was set back 0.030 at the shoulder. I read in your thread in the reloading section that you said your resized cases fit easily into the chamber. Is it possible your having a similar problem for the same reasons?

Sent from my Huawei-U8665 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

I was shooting factory ammo, as indicated in the OP
 
I went through the rest of my factory fired cases yesterday and found 3 more ruptured cases nearly identical to the one above
 
Here are the other blown cases. They weigh 135-137 grains of a powder when you tear them apart and measure. Cheytac will be investigating, as soon as I send them the rest of the lot of cartridges.
<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-01/IMG_20140123_093030563_zpswx5i6nw3.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-01/IMG_20140123_093030563_zpswx5i6nw3.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140123_093030563_zpswx5i6nw3.jpg"/></a>
 
I don't know, but I HOPE not....I've been considering a bore scope for some time, perhaps now is the time....

Brass shot after these shows no indication that it is impacted by a chamber imperfection
 
So, the balanced flight projectiles loaded ammo (that I paid $7 a round for) shoot so bad that last night I pulled the bullets to use the brass for my own loads.

The top 10 grains or so of powder was loose, but the remainder of the powder below that was packed adn caked together so tight that I had to use a metal rod to ram in there and break it up so I could dump it out. Here are some conglomerates of powder that came out after I scrambeled the rest with the rod. All of the 14 shells I dissaembled were like this. What gives?

<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/IMG_20140208_163922947_zpsh7qq3jqk.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/IMG_20140208_163922947_zpsh7qq3jqk.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140208_163922947_zpsh7qq3jqk.jpg"/></a>
 
secondofangle said:
So, the balanced flight projectiles loaded ammo (that I paid $7 a round for) shoot so bad that last night I pulled the bullets to use the brass for my own loads.

The top 10 grains or so of powder was loose, but the remainder of the powder below that was packed adn caked together so tight that I had to use a metal rod to ram in there and break it up so I could dump it out. Here are some conglomerates of powder that came out after I scrambeled the rest with the rod. All of the 14 shells I dissaembled were like this. What gives?

<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/IMG_20140208_163922947_zpsh7qq3jqk.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/IMG_20140208_163922947_zpsh7qq3jqk.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140208_163922947_zpsh7qq3jqk.jpg"/></a>
Click to expand...
As Willie Nelson would say .....That Shit ain't Right !
 
Man,
That is bad business all around.. I am glad you are OK and there were no other injuries. I reload 375 Cheytac and I have 200 pieces of Jamison brass. I have not had any issues so far but I plan to thoroughly inspect everything I have after reading this thread. I am very interested to hear what Cheytac has to say regarding this incident.
 
A customer of mine tried those balanced flight projectiles. Shot like absolute garbage for him as well, while the cutting edge 352's were producing 5" groups at 1000yds.

So-called "new" cheytac seems to be producing similar experiences as the "old" cheytac.
 
secondofangle said:
Here are the other blown cases. They weigh 135-137 grains of a powder when you tear them apart and measure. Cheytac will be investigating, as soon as I send them the rest of the lot of cartridges.
Click to expand...

After the first case let go, I'm not sure I would have put a 2nd round in the rifle... but I AM sure I wouldn't have done it 4 more times. :D
 
jdonovan said:
After the first case let go, I'm not sure I would have put a 2nd round in the rifle... but I AM sure I wouldn't have done it 4 more times. :D
Click to expand...

Call me dumb, but I figured "It's factory ammo". When I felt a 'hot" one, i would inspect the primer and the base of the case. These ruptures went unnoticed until the last one blew out the ejector. it was only after talking to cheytac and sorting through all the brass for all the ammo I have shot, that I found the other 3.

I'm sending them the remainder of the lot. Tehy're gonna inspect. But I already know some of the problems. The load is right at max, and based on the ones I've torn apart, the variability of the charges is +/- upwards of 1.2 grains. With the COAL of 4.10, it is damn near a compressed load. One extra grain in there and.......kablewie!

Why the powder is all caked in the BFP rounds is another thing altogether.

I was told that they have billions of those BFPs and that they're turned for a different bore than the standard .375. That they ordered some barrels early in their existence that were the wrong spec, their fault. Rather than waste the barrels, they had the projectiles turned to match the barrels - which makes these BFPs shoot like shit in spec guns like my HTI.
 
datec said:
I've never heard anythin about CheyTac being a problem company would you care to explain? I have read the post where they didn't award the prize gun but that's all I've heard. I have a friend looking at their platform in a .300 or .338.
Dave
Click to expand...

Hit Google good and hard, it's a decade long Greek tragedy of epic proportions

If your friend likes the look of that specific gun design, then go to EDM arms, or go with Desert Tactical & their design.
 
secondofangle said:
So, the balanced flight projectiles loaded ammo (that I paid $7 a round for) shoot so bad that last night I pulled the bullets to use the brass for my own loads.

The top 10 grains or so of powder was loose, but the remainder of the powder below that was packed adn caked together so tight that I had to use a metal rod to ram in there and break it up so I could dump it out. Here are some conglomerates of powder that came out after I scrambeled the rest with the rod. All of the 14 shells I dissaembled were like this. What gives?

<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/IMG_20140208_163922947_zpsh7qq3jqk.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/IMG_20140208_163922947_zpsh7qq3jqk.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140208_163922947_zpsh7qq3jqk.jpg"/></a>
Click to expand...

Not sure. Would a compressed load cause the powder to stick together like that?
 
secondofangle said:
. These ruptures went unnoticed until the last one blew out the ejector. it was only after talking to cheytac and sorting through all the brass for all the ammo I have shot, that I found the other 3.
Click to expand...

Ok, that is a bit different then. I was hoping you hadn't shot one, found the hole in the case. Shot another.. look another hole, lets try #3, Ooo another hole. That would have been a bit crazy to keep at it if you were finding holes.

I'm sending them the remainder of the lot. Tehy're gonna inspect. But I already know some of the problems. The load is right at max, and based on the ones I've torn apart, the variability of the charges is +/- upwards of 1.2 grains. With the COAL of 4.10, it is damn near a compressed load. One extra grain in there and.......kablewie!
Click to expand...

Might be time to switch to DTM, and say good by to cheytac ammo.
 
OK here's some followup.

I have to say that CheyTac and their employees have showed appropriate concern for the problem that I have chronicled above. I talked to them and sent them my blown cases and the remainder of my SMK loads I got from them. They offered to replace my ammo. I requested instead that they just send me the equivalent in brass. Last week I got a shipping notification for a 6# shipment, which is what 100 empty cases ships for. I have ordered 2 such shipments in the past.

The remaining balanced flight projectile copper solids I had from them - I pulled the bullets and used the powder for garden fertilizer and used the primed case to load my own SMK loads at 132 grains of Retumbo loaded to the lands in the HTI, which I have settled upon as my load.

Just today I got the shipment but it was 50 empty brass and 50 SMKs which they had meplat trimmed and also "sharpened" with a statement that this increases uniformity and improves BC (to what number???).

They included this letter, which states basically that my blown cases are a result of high pressure because of chamber dimension differences between their chambers and "competitors' offerings". They state in the letter that they have reduced their loads to make their ammunition compatible with a wider range of rifles/chambers.

I wish a lot of things in retrospect. Mainly that they had sent me 100 empty brass, b/c I don't know what to do with the modified SMKs they sent me!

In any case, (no pun intended - hahahah) I will continue to buy brass from them to reload my own ammo. I like that they are a consistent source for the Jamison brass at a reasonable price, and that they tried to make this situation right. And that they (or their forebears) designed this really really cool cartridge, which I have become quite fond of.

I guess the "take home message" is that this is a hot cartridge that pushes the limits of the materials involved. Please be careful reloading this and don't try to load it to the max. You get enough BANG with moderate loads, which still far exceed, ballistically, just about anything else out there.

<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/5d14b58a-b551-4e84-b896-198f6e72a95f_zps349007fa.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/5d14b58a-b551-4e84-b896-198f6e72a95f_zps349007fa.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 5d14b58a-b551-4e84-b896-198f6e72a95f_zps349007fa.jpg"/></a>
 
Crap - I'm sitting on 100 of 350SMK and 100 of their solids :( form my HTI
Have not shot it yet but now I'll be weary
 
SEND THAT AMMO BACK.

And their solids arent' worth a damn, they won't shoot in an HTI, they're the wrong diameter, call DTM and ask them.

Or pull the bullets, reduce the charges and reload.
 
Just an FYI on those copper/nickel solids: they were originally developed by LRBT in conjunction with a special bore spec from Lawton Barrels. They perform great with that combo (easily better than any other bullet I tested) but not so well in any other standard configuration. Besides, they'll foul your barrel so quickly and so bad that you'll be using Wipeout between sessions.

Take secondofangle's advice.
 
I'm just browsing, don't mind me.

But that letter has 4 grammatical errors that really stand out as well as screwed up tab spacing.

Carry on. :)
 
It's the firearms industry - proper spelling and grammar would make them look like filthy liberuls! At least there aren't words unnecessarily capitalized.
 
Cheytac Solids are approx .001" too large in diameter to fire in conventional sized barrels, our HTI is conventional bore size. We did not see value in producing unconventional barrels that only let you fire cheytac projectiles through them. Of course Cheytac could have just reduced the projectile diameter during their initial development process and never would have had to use unconventional bore diameters to begin with. My theory is they had already made thousands of rounds that were the larger diameter and it was easier for them to say how super secret the projectile was that it needed an entirely unique barrel than it was for them to scrap them and reduce the diameter of the projectile. Looks like the new owners of Cheytac are trying make a go of it and I hope it works out for them.
 
ney1 said:
Cheytac Solids are approx .001" too large in diameter to fire in conventional sized barrels, our HTI is conventional bore size. We did not see value in producing unconventional barrels that only let you fire cheytac projectiles through them. Of course Cheytac could have just reduced the projectile diameter during their initial development process and never would have had to use unconventional bore diameters to begin with. My theory is they had already made thousands of rounds that were the larger diameter and it was easier for them to say how super secret the projectile was that it needed an entirely unique barrel than it was for them to scrap them and reduce the diameter of the projectile. Looks like the new owners of Cheytac are trying make a go of it and I hope it works out for them.
Click to expand...
Agreed on all accounts. The chamber dimensions Cheytac is using are completely different from what you guys have in the HTI as well. HTI using the "standard" PTG reamer, with cheytac using the "original" cheytac reamer. At least that's as close as I've got to figuring it out. Resizing brass fired in an HTI with a cheytac sizer is bad juju.

It's good to have several companies supporting the 375CT cartridge!

However, I've heard from about 5 different people now that the "new" owners are the very same people that were with the "old" cheytac. Titles were just changed around. I have not been able to confirm any of that. There's some sorted history there. ;)
 
By my measurement just now with a Starrett Caliper (0.001 - for ten thousandths, I'm guessing) measuring the bearing surface:

SMK 0.375 dead on

CT BPF varies between .3742 and .3748

CE 352: 0.3745 or thereabouts

With my measurement instrument, I can't really discriminate, but both are slightly less diameter than the SMK.

The biggest difference I can tell is the driving band on the CEB which adds about 0.002
 
orkan said:
Lead core projo's will be larger, as they "squish" more than solids.

You'd need a good mic to measure the difference in size.
Click to expand...

I need more tools! Excellent! Just link me to the proper instrument and I'll be all over it! (The wife will never notice.)

Also, you should change your number to 605-556-1911
 
Orkan is spot on. The smk conforms to rifling more easily. The harder turned solds are much stiffer and do not. That is why the pressure goes up it is also why they tend to fouls barrels more than jacketed bullets.
 
Just do a little fire lapping with tubs final finish, problem solved.
 
ney1 said:
Orkan is spot on. The smk conforms to rifling more easily. The harder turned solds are much stiffer and do not. That is why the pressure goes up it is also why they tend to fouls barrels more than jacketed bullets.
Click to expand...

Though it's worth mentioning that those LRBT/Cheytac/Jamison copper/nickel alloy solids are made of a softer material than many of the other turned solids you see out there. I first noticed this back in 2007 when I tried to seat the 419gr solid for the first time and the tip got bent pretty easily, requiring a special VLD-type seating stem. Most other solids seem to be made of spun brass, bronze or alloys. Cutting Edge does both Brass and Copper bullets and the later I would expect to be relatively soft as well. Though as mentioned, neither is softer than lead with a thin copper jacket.
 
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