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Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

#51
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EWP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would never own a Dillon press just because the idiots made them where the brass feeds in from the right side where the handle is, it makes feeding the cases a pain where the LnL AP is left hand feed for the case and bullet and the handle is on the right so feeding the LnL while pulling the lever is very simple and can be done on the fly unlike the Dillon.
my $.02 </div></div>

The 650 was not designed to be used without a casefeeder. The idiots has the inginuity to design it so could you use it without the casefeeder even though that was not the intent of the machine. If you want a manually fed Dillon, save the $128 and get a 550 where you manually feed the cases on the LH side. $0.02
 
#52
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longrange****</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Or if you dont want to mess with the actual bullet collater just get the bullet drop tubes and fill those with one hand as you crank with the other. I can load an easy 1000+ an hour on my 650 this way. The Collater may have added another few hundred an hour but I'll keep the 400 dollar difference!

</div></div>

Thats a good idea, I guess I didnt think of that.

Things are still leaning toward the Dillon.......and I know that a lot of the Bench shooter guys are using them.

Im just left wondering if they are using the systems the way they come from Dillon or if they are using those floating tool heads as you mentioned or if they are modifying them....Im just concerned with runout on the progressives.....

I watched a number of videos for the Dillon but did see one where the guy stuck the tool head in and it appeared to have a fair amount of play in it....If my Turret press had that much I would have tossed it in the trash.

The reason Im thinking about run-out is if you really think about it as the first round moves around you will have uneven preassure being placed on one side of the tool head. Not too big of a deal since thats not going to happen often but even so, I cant imagine that there is even preassure on the tool head all the way around with the different amounts of preassure being applied one each die...... </div></div>


That's one of the big reasons why I went with the LNL. I like having the dies screwed into the press body in one solid piece.

I was on this same boat as you and got the LNL and have been very very very satisifed. I have loaded many rounds with it and the only two things that I can knock it for is that you have to keep the primer system clean and I wished that it sat the primers a little bit deeper. But both you can totally fix on your own and would take seconds.
 
#53
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quickdraw40</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EWP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would never own a Dillon press just because the idiots made them where the brass feeds in from the right side where the handle is, it makes feeding the cases a pain where the LnL AP is left hand feed for the case and bullet and the handle is on the right so feeding the LnL while pulling the lever is very simple and can be done on the fly unlike the Dillon.
my $.02 </div></div>

The 650 was not designed to be used without a casefeeder. The idiots has the inginuity to design it so could you use it without the casefeeder even though that was not the intent of the machine. If you want a manually fed Dillon, save the $128 and get a 550 where you feed the cases on the LH side. $0.02 </div></div>


If it were designed to be used with a case feeder than they should have it packaged together with it as standard. IMO, they should have designed it so that it is ergonomic to use it with or without. That way you can't gripe about it and gives the customers more options.
 
#54
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nessal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quickdraw40</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EWP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would never own a Dillon press just because the idiots made them where the brass feeds in from the right side where the handle is, it makes feeding the cases a pain where the LnL AP is left hand feed for the case and bullet and the handle is on the right so feeding the LnL while pulling the lever is very simple and can be done on the fly unlike the Dillon.
my $.02 </div></div>

The 650 was not designed to be used without a casefeeder. The idiots has the inginuity to design it so could you use it without the casefeeder even though that was not the intent of the machine. If you want a manually fed Dillon, save the $128 and get a 550 where you feed the cases on the LH side. $0.02 </div></div>


If it were designed to be used with a case feeder than they should have it packaged together with it as standard. IMO, they should have designed it so that it is ergonomic to use it with or without. That way you can't gripe about it and gives the customers more options. </div></div>

The 650 without the casefeeder still has a casefeed tube which you fill manually and then it autofeeds them into the shell plate.

ITs much faster and far easier then fitting them in one at a time into the shell plate.

I did this for a while before I bought the casefeeder.
 
#55
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nessal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If it were designed to be used with a case feeder than they should have it packaged together with it as standard. IMO, they should have designed it so that it is ergonomic to use it with or without. That way you can't gripe about it and gives the customers more options. </div></div>

They did give you an option if you don't want the case feeder... save $128 and get the 550. Buying a 650 with no plans on getting a casefeeder just doesn't make any sense.

Buy a 650 with a casefeeder. Buy a 650, use it for two months while saving for a casefeeder. No casefeeder wanted (pistol only), buy a SDB, No casefeeder wanted (pistol and rifle)- buy a 550. Bought the 550 and regret not having a casefeeder, now there is a casefeeder for the 550. Seems like they are giving their customers a lot of options to me.........

 
#56
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That's one of the big reasons why I went with the LNL. I like having the dies screwed into the press body in one solid piece.
</div></div>

A little bit of float or play is a good thing in reloading. Have you ever used a Redding Competition die?
 
#57
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quickdraw40</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nessal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If it were designed to be used with a case feeder than they should have it packaged together with it as standard. IMO, they should have designed it so that it is ergonomic to use it with or without. That way you can't gripe about it and gives the customers more options. </div></div>

They did give you an option if you don't want the case feeder... save $128 and get the 550. Buying a 650 with no plans on getting a casefeeder just doesn't make any sense.

Buy a 650 with a casefeeder. Buy a 650, use it for two months while saving for a casefeeder. No casefeeder wanted (pistol only), buy a SDB, No casefeeder wanted (pistol and rifle)- buy a 550. Bought the 550 and regret not having a casefeeder, now there is a casefeeder for the 550. Seems like they are giving their customers a lot of options to me.........

</div></div>

As far as ergonomics go, my statement still stands. It would make more sense to feed everything from the left side. And the only option for the 650 is to get it with or without the case feeder. And if you choose without, then it will be kind of annoying. So it would make more sense to design the press to make it more practical for either option. You really can't lose.
 
#58
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quickdraw40</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That's one of the big reasons why I went with the LNL. I like having the dies screwed into the press body in one solid piece.
</div></div>

A little bit of float or play is a good thing in reloading. Have you ever used a Redding Competition die? </div></div>


I actually do use a seat of Redding Comp dies. Great dies might I add.

But I feel that if you have 5 dies on a plate that moves around, each station may pull each every way and it could affect the finished product. I'm not saying that it would, but it might. I just feel more comfortable with a solid press. But I guess I'm conditioned from using single stage presses my whole life and only moved to a progressive a year ago.
 
#59
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

I have a Lock-N-Load AP and have had nothing but trouble with it (loading pistol rounds so far). First I had to get a replacement primer ram because it kept sticking no matter what was done to clean it up. Next I had problems with the primer punches in my hornady dies...ended up getting replacements for them (hornady provided the .45ACP replacement for free, one that actually screws in). Next I had problems with the ejector spring. Sometimes it would jam up, other times it would eject the round across the room. All this time I couldn't get a consistent powder throw. I bought a micrometer die for powder, but I'm not sure I care anymore.

Basically, it takes me about 30 mins to an hour to get the rig tuned up to start pumping out rounds, and I just don't have that much free time to waste. Now, I have a model thats just above S/N #1000, and they have "revised" some of the components, but they expect me to pay to fix the mechanical shortcomings (like the ejector spring, the shell plates, and the die spindles)...If it would just throw the proper powder charge, I would look at keeping it.
 
#60
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Presence</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Lock-N-Load AP and have had nothing but trouble with it (loading pistol rounds so far). First I had to get a replacement primer ram because it kept sticking no matter what was done to clean it up. Next I had problems with the primer punches in my hornady dies...ended up getting replacements for them (hornady provided the .45ACP replacement for free, one that actually screws in). Next I had problems with the ejector spring. Sometimes it would jam up, other times it would eject the round across the room. All this time I couldn't get a consistent powder throw. I bought a micrometer die for powder, but I'm not sure I care anymore.

Basically, it takes me about 30 mins to an hour to get the rig tuned up to start pumping out rounds, and I just don't have that much free time to waste. Now, I have a model thats just above S/N #1000, and they have "revised" some of the components, but they expect me to pay to fix the mechanical shortcomings (like the ejector spring, the shell plates, and the die spindles)...If it would just throw the proper powder charge, I would look at keeping it. </div></div>
Did you dissasemble the powder measure and clean the shipping lube off? That's what I find is the main problem with inconsistent powder throws.
 
#61
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

i was never a dillon monkey just because of all the hype that came with guys that used them.....I bought a 1050 a few months ago and can say I know why they go nuts about them....it is awesome...the pwder measure is dead nuts accurate all the time.
 
#62
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longrange****</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BigBore....how is the priming system on the RCBS.... </div></div>
RCBS's priming system works perfectly. Several thousand rounds and no skipped primers. If you buy CCI's already in strips, life is easier. I load the strips with the included strip loader and put them in zip locks for later. Fail proof priming system.

My LNL missed a primer about every 40 loads. It also jammed between stages about every 12 to 15 rounds, especially on the .45ACP. I had to polish the 45 shellplate out w/Dremel because 2 holes were undersized.

Didn't have too many problems with 9mm. Loding the.40 was a PITA!

I just got tired of screwing with it and worring if all the loads were primed. I adjusted the pawls a couple of times, but it seems they go out of adjustment every 1000 rounds or so. Priming system is unreliable. LNL bushings work loose while loading. Shell retainer spring stretches and breaks....BLA...BLA...BLA. I ended up stocking a BUNCH of parts from Hornady to keep it running.

Hornady parts were not in spec.
 
#63
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quickdraw40</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 650 was not designed to be used without a casefeeder. The idiots has the inginuity to design it so could you use it without the casefeeder even though that was not the intent of the machine. If you want a manually fed Dillon, save the $128 and get a 550 where you manually feed the cases on the LH side. $0.02 </div></div>

I'm guessing that was a typo. SDB, 550 and 650 all feed cases from RH side.

As far as the case feeder goes, the 650 without one is the worst of both worlds. Most of the work in changing calibers with case feeders is the slider mechanism, which still has to be swapped/adjusted on a 650, no matter whether you have the case feeder or not. Also drives up the price of every caliber change.

Hornady feeds cases from LH side.

Andy
 
#64
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quickdraw40</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nessal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If it were designed to be used with a case feeder than they should have it packaged together with it as standard. IMO, they should have designed it so that it is ergonomic to use it with or without. That way you can't gripe about it and gives the customers more options. </div></div>

They did give you an option if you don't want the case feeder... save $128 and get the 550. Buying a 650 with no plans on getting a casefeeder just doesn't make any sense.

Buy a 650 with a casefeeder. Buy a 650, use it for two months while saving for a casefeeder. No casefeeder wanted (pistol only), buy a SDB, No casefeeder wanted (pistol and rifle)- buy a 550. Bought the 550 and regret not having a casefeeder, now there is a casefeeder for the 550. Seems like they are giving their customers a lot of options to me.........

</div></div>

The options suck if you ask me, just because one does not want/need a case feeder doesn't warrant having to buy another press that doesn't even auto index.

Why not just make it so even the case feeder feeds from the left and if you don't want one you can still easily feed the brass and bullets from the left instead of having to work around the handle every time.

It just isn't a well thought out press, but I do see why so many Dillon users "have to have" a case feeder, because the thing is a nightmare to use without one unlike the LnL which works effortlessly with or without a case feeder.
 
#65
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EWP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The LnL SS and AP cant share the same die bushing settings as someone mentioned since the LnL AP has the dies set much deeper than the SS LnL, there is no way to "shim" the dies to match both presses, any die set for the AP will be way to deep for the SS and the single stage dies will not be deep enough for the AP, so the dies will have to be adjusted for each or do as I did and buy a die set for each press.
</div></div>

Sorry but you are incorrect:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXaB_I4nrhY&feature=player_detailpage
 
#66
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigDKC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EWP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The LnL SS and AP cant share the same die bushing settings as someone mentioned since the LnL AP has the dies set much deeper than the SS LnL, there is no way to "shim" the dies to match both presses, any die set for the AP will be way to deep for the SS and the single stage dies will not be deep enough for the AP, so the dies will have to be adjusted for each or do as I did and buy a die set for each press.
</div></div>

Sorry but you are incorrect:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXaB_I4nrhY&feature=player_detailpage
</div></div>

That isn't necessarily something your average re loader can just make adjustments to get to work as I said, but I guess if you have the time and money or a lathe laying around it can be done but a new set of dies would probably cost as much as the spacer to have made plus the trial and error would not be as easy as shown for say a sizing die that would need to be closer to no more than say .0005" in difference and cam-over taken into effect to work the same on both presses unlike a powder measure or powder cop die.
 
#67
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EWP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quickdraw40</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nessal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If it were designed to be used with a case feeder than they should have it packaged together with it as standard. IMO, they should have designed it so that it is ergonomic to use it with or without. That way you can't gripe about it and gives the customers more options. </div></div>

They did give you an option if you don't want the case feeder... save $128 and get the 550. Buying a 650 with no plans on getting a casefeeder just doesn't make any sense.

Buy a 650 with a casefeeder. Buy a 650, use it for two months while saving for a casefeeder. No casefeeder wanted (pistol only), buy a SDB, No casefeeder wanted (pistol and rifle)- buy a 550. Bought the 550 and regret not having a casefeeder, now there is a casefeeder for the 550. Seems like they are giving their customers a lot of options to me.........

</div></div>

The options suck if you ask me, just because one does not want/need a case feeder doesn't warrant having to buy another press that doesn't even auto index.

Why not just make it so even the case feeder feeds from the left and if you don't want one you can still easily feed the brass and bullets from the left instead of having to work around the handle every time.

It just isn't a well thought out press, but I do see why so many Dillon users "have to have" a case feeder, because the thing is a nightmare to use without one unlike the LnL which works effortlessly with or without a case feeder. </div></div>
I am kind of an idiot but on any five station press the brass feed station and bullet seating station have to be opposite one another....Maybe I am missing a significant portion of the industrial design genius you possess, but could you elaborate how on any progressive press you could feed both bullets and brass from one side?????
 
#68
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am kind of an idiot but on any five station press the brass feed station and bullet seating station have to be opposite one another....Maybe I am missing a significant portion of the industrial design genius you possess, but could you elaborate how on any progressive press you could feed both bullets and brass from one side?????
</div></div>

On the RCBS Pro 2000 (five stations) you feed brass and bullets from the left side. You don't have to take your hand off the handle.
 
#70
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xr650rRider</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On the RCBS Pro 2000 (five stations) you feed brass and bullets from the left side. You don't have to take your hand off the handle. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Same way on the LnL AP... </div></div>

The 650 feeds the brass from the back right side and you manually feed bullets from the left. Not an issue with a casefeeder. It automatically indexes. Pull the handle and feed bullets... repeat hundreds of thousands of times, no issues.

The 550 feeds brass from the front right side and you manually feed bullets and index from the left. You have to 1. feed a new piece of brass and 2. load a bullet after pulling the handle. I have two hands... I would rather do one chore with each hand than leave my right hand on the handle while my left hand does two things. While pulling the handle I grab a bullet. While indexing I grab a piece of brass. While feeding the bullet I feed the brass. It is faster using two hands to perform two tasks. Repeat hundreds of thousands of times, no issues.

I have an idea, the OP should try all three and decide for himself.

 
#72
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

On a 5 station press, case feeding and bullet feeding generally are 2/5's apart, or 144 degrees (from bullet to case; 216 degrees the other way). On the AP, the bullet feed is at about 5:30, and the case feed is at about 10:30. The press's front frame member is at about 5:00, so it is still to the right of the bullet feeding station.

Comparing ergonomics of a manually indexed press to a auto-inexed press is moot. Of course you have time to do something extra while indexing with the other hand.

Andy
 
#73
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

Guy, let me tell you my experience with a Hornady lock and load. I went back and forth over it and a Dillon xl 650. I had so many issues with the hornady. The priming issues, failure to advance, failure to load powder, etc. I finally sent it back, they were nice enough to pay for shipping both ways. I got it back, set it up, and first primer went off fine, then one got stuck....................again! So I put it right back in the box and sold the dam thing.

I just ordered a xl650, should be here in a few weeks and I cannot wait to try it. I had to spend more money, and I lost money on the hornady, but I Hope to God it is worth it. Even my hornady dies are troublesome. I have sold all of them and have bought Redding dies.

Not sure what you intend to buy, but no way would I recommend a Hornady. Nice people, great customer service, but the products do not seem to be the quality they need to be.
 
#74
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308Shooter1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Did you dissasemble the powder measure and clean the shipping lube off? That's what I find is the main problem with inconsistent powder throws. </div></div>

I did...plus I threw graphite through it, amoungst 100 other things. I might throw the micrometer in there just to avoid having to list it all for sale.
 
#75
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

I have a Hornady LnL set up for 45 ACP. It has run nicely from the start after an evening adjusting and tweaking.

The powder measure is the most consistent one I've ever used (also used RCBS and Redding), and it is even more consistent than my Chargemaster. I use Titegroup, which is a flake powder with the pistol insert and it is 100% consistent. I still spot check on start-up and every 50 or 100 rounds, and weigh all finished rounds to check for a squib or double charge. Caught one with no primer and powder spilled out like this.

fwiw on the set-up, they have videos on youtube that are good. Follow the instructions carefully including using their One Shot dry lube inside the powder measure assembly and inserts. I use Redding carbide dies which have worked well without any lube.

My only issue was having to use some blue loctite to keep the bushings from working loose as well as a couple of the other threaded parts. Once loctite was applied, they have stayed put.

As mentioned above, about 1 out of 100 rounds it will miss a primer causing powder to spill in the track if you miss it, which is irritating. If the powder spills, clean it out of the track or it will causing binding.

Did 300 rounds yesterday and 300 today with no hassles. Very easy to operate and very happy with it.

Whichever one you pick, definitely buy a case feeder. It is a must have.

 
#76
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xr650rRider</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am kind of an idiot but on any five station press the brass feed station and bullet seating station have to be opposite one another....Maybe I am missing a significant portion of the industrial design genius you possess, but could you elaborate how on any progressive press you could feed both bullets and brass from one side?????
</div></div>

On the RCBS Pro 2000 (five stations) you feed brass and bullets from the left side. You don't have to take your hand off the handle. </div></div>

My point to the original poster claiming stupidity on Dillon's part for their design was that although you may be able to design a machine where one hand loads both brass and bullets it is never from the same side of the press.
 
#77
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My point to the original poster claiming stupidity on Dillon's part for their design was that although you may be able to design a machine where one hand loads both brass and bullets it is never from the same side of the press.
</div></div>


If that makes sense to you that is all that matters.
 
#78
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

I think most of the auto loaders have some issues. I sold my dillion and just pickup a LNL. Hoping the LNL is the answer. I kinda like the LNL maybe a little better right now. Time will tell. Looks a little simpler than the dillion.
 
#80
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smokshwn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My point to the original poster claiming stupidity on Dillon's part for their design was that although you may be able to design a machine where one hand loads both brass and bullets it is never from the same side of the press.
</div></div>

The LNL AP loads both brass and bullets with the same hand on the left side of the press! Why do you say it never happens?

Andy
 
#81
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeSWammo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I run a Dillon 650 and like it- when it's up and running! But, changing calibers takes me anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour. Plus, I always have something major to adjust/fix about every 500 or so rounds when in use. Since you will be doing several calibers, my vote is for the Hor LNL. You can change calibers in about 45 seconds, vs 45 minutes to an hour for the 650. So, caliber change is a big deciding factor, IMO.
I would get the the LNL with the bushings set up in the calibers you mention, and get a case feeder. There are several auto bullet feeders out there that will more than double your output. I can run about 450 rounds an hour loading 223 on a 650 (no bullet feeder) going at a steady pace, more than double with handgun rounds (with the bullet feeder). </div></div>

Chad, I don't see how it could possibly take 45 minutes to change calibers on a 650. I could see 45 minutes for a 1050, including switching the primer system, but not on a 650. There are two pins you pull out by hand to change the toolhead, and two allen screws to remove while changing the shellplate. A few plastic bushings and the casefeed plate finish it off. 10 minutes is more than enough time, and 5 isn't too hard.

However, I don't like the many plastic parts used on the Dillon 650. There IS always something that always seems to need fixing, especially after a caliber change. I am looking into the Hornady for this reason. </div></div>

I have only 2 tool heads, and try to keep my 223 set up all the time. But sometimes I have to switch them up to other calibers, like have I been. Just the other day, it took me 45 minutes to have the press set up to load from scratch with new 223 dies. I had to change out the priming system to small primers, and all the other set-up stuff. Plus, my priming system is malfunctioning, and it's bugging the tar out of me. If you had 1 tool head for each caliber, this would save time, but increase cost. I will be adding more tool heads for this reason. I don't load much on the 650, so set up time is always high for me. And I hate that every screw is a different size on the 650. </div></div>

I can see that, setting up toolheads is very time consuming. The priming system is a pain on the 650. Sometimes it works, sometimes it crushes primers in sideways. And, I can think of at least 4 different size allen wrenches I need to change the primer system and shell plate. However, I do like the little 1" "lock rings" that Dillon sells for dies, makes it a little easier to set up tooheads.

The Dillon "no BS" warranty seems to have becom the opposite recently, too. I normaly go by the retail store in Scottsdale for parts. I have never even had them ask me a question, let alone interrogate me about a broke part unitl a certian lady began working in the front. Everytime I go in with a broken part I am treated like a shop-lifter for trying to get a replacement. And purchasing items is an ordeal too, as she knows all things Dillon, and customers do not. Oh well.
 
#82
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

I have never used a 650 but I have been running the 550 for 20+ years. As for needing parts for it....... I never have.
I also had a 1050 for a while during my subgun days. I really liked it but it was a monster of a machine.
There is not a single progressive machine out there without some issues.
Look at which one offers the most accessories. I always thought the bullet tray and strong mount were lame until I got them. Now I couldn't do without them.
I still believe in Dillon and would definitely buy another one if I needed it.
 
#84
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quickdraw40</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Handloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I never use the 650 anymore because the priming system is always messing up and I have had a mass detonation. Dillon said only use the Remington primers in the Dillon. One would assume that any primers could be used.

</div></div>

Never heard that and after shooting IPSC for 15 years, My friends and I have loaded a combined millions of rounds on Dillon presses and nobody uses Remington primers. </div></div>

I find that odd too since Winchester adn CCI primers both have harder cups anyway. I've mashed BR2s HARD in 650 without detonation. </div></div>

Point-of-fact....why should one use a system that "Mashes" primers.
 
#85
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

I got the LNL and it was missing a part. It needed a spring for the powder measure. Call them and they sent out the part the next day. Wrong part. I can understand the wrong part. I will send a picture of the part that it was missing. No complaints they was very nice and fast with shipping of the part. Just got our wires cross. Hornady has always been good to deal with. Mess with it some. I like the concept a little better on the machine but I haven't used it yet though.
 
#86
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

I hope to God the Dillon does not mash any primers, that was the big problem with my hornady. And like someone else said, hornady did treat me right, I will give them that. very courteous, and payed for shipping both ways.

That lady at the Dillon shop that is interrogating you, I would ask to speak to a manager, if they have a no BS warranty, then you should not even have to talk to her, hand her the part and say I would like a new one, no questions asked. Plain and simple.
 
#87
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

Wow, Im gone for a bit and look what happens!

This is good though, we are compileling some great first hand information regarding these machines. I was offered a used Dillon for a great price so Im going to give that a shot and see what happens.

Thank you guys for the time to give your opinions and whatnot....if anyone has more to add to this, please do. Im sure that there are a number of new guys looking through this for information.
 
#88
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

i looked at the same 3 options and called brian enos to order a 650,he told me a 550 would be better for what i wanted to do.i ordered a 550 and tool heads etc that he recomended and have been very happy with it.
 
#89
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

I load 9mm,40 and 223 on a 650. Seperate toolheads for all. Caliber change takes five minutes tops. Reading others posts seems some of you are having problem with the priming system,smearing and crunching. If you are having these kinds of priming issues you are not adjusting the primer system correctly. Not sure the name of the part but a lot of people dont realize the spring loaded arm that guides the shell into station two has an adjustment screw and this will fix issues with crunching and smearing primers. I have used CCI, Winchester, Wolf ,Federal and probably other primers with no problems.
 
#90
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hummerdawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I load 9mm,40 and 223 on a 650. Seperate toolheads for all. Caliber change takes five minutes tops. Reading others posts seems some of you are having problem with the priming system,smearing and crunching. If you are having these kinds of priming issues you are not adjusting the primer system correctly. Not sure the name of the part but a lot of people dont realize the spring loaded arm that guides the shell into station two has an adjustment screw and this will fix issues with crunching and smearing primers. I have used CCI, Winchester, Wolf ,Federal and probably other primers with no problems.</div></div>

Well this is interesting....can you PLEASE give us a detailed instruction on how you are doing this? If all these guys are missing it, for some reason, it leads me to believe its not in the manual.
 
#91
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Handloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quickdraw40</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Handloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I never use the 650 anymore because the priming system is always messing up and I have had a mass detonation. Dillon said only use the Remington primers in the Dillon. One would assume that any primers could be used.

</div></div>

Never heard that and after shooting IPSC for 15 years, My friends and I have loaded a combined millions of rounds on Dillon presses and nobody uses Remington primers. </div></div>

I find that odd too since Winchester adn CCI primers both have harder cups anyway. I've mashed BR2s HARD in 650 without detonation. </div></div>

Point-of-fact....why should one use a system that "Mashes" primers. </div></div>

My XL650 is gone. I use a T7 now.
 
#92
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

It is in the manual on how to adjust the arm, but it is overlooked easily. The adjustment screw is buried on the back of the guide arm. And the guide arm is spring activated and it doesnt look like you could adjust it nor need to. Hell I didnt know it was there for a year until I had changed to a different caliber and was experiencing the crunching smearing primer disease.
 
#94
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wyobill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i looked at the same 3 options and called brian enos to order a 650,he told me a 550 would be better for what i wanted to do.i ordered a 550 and tool heads etc that he recomended and have been very happy with it. </div></div>

I too was planning on getting the 650 (as recommended by all my shooitng buddies), but after talking to Brian about the different calibers I planned on reloading (.223 , .308, .45ACP, 9mm) I ended up with a 550. So far I am EXTREMELY pleased with it. I've easily swapped between the large and small primer setups, different powder bars, and shell plates. If you have a dedicated tool head for each caliber it doesn't take too long to be up and running again. I'm sure the 550 isn't as fast as a 650, but I average about 250-300 rifle rounds per hour. I did 1000 rounds of my 3gun "baster" ammo in a little over 2 hours. Pistol looks to be a little faster (I'm still doing small batch load development).

650 is great for large quantities of one or two calibers. The 550 is better for average quantities of many calibers.
 
#95
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longrange****</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hummerdawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I load 9mm,40 and 223 on a 650. Seperate toolheads for all. Caliber change takes five minutes tops. Reading others posts seems some of you are having problem with the priming system,smearing and crunching. If you are having these kinds of priming issues you are not adjusting the primer system correctly. Not sure the name of the part but a lot of people dont realize the spring loaded arm that guides the shell into station two has an adjustment screw and this will fix issues with crunching and smearing primers. I have used CCI, Winchester, Wolf ,Federal and probably other primers with no problems.</div></div>

Well this is interesting....can you PLEASE give us a detailed instruction on how you are doing this? If all these guys are missing it, for some reason, it leads me to believe its not in the manual. </div></div>

After about 12 or so years (and well over 300K) I began to experience flipped primers. A couple of replacement parts, a little tweaking and back to normal. Maybe I'm just lucky.
 
#96
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

I mess with the LNL for about a week now. Comparing it to my old 650. I like the LNL more. The powder thrower throws more consistent powder. Easy to setup and run.
The 650 powder thrower. I had to polish and mess with it. Still did not get the results I like. Glad I sold it and bought the LNL.
 
#97
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

My vote goes for the Hornady LNL. I have had 1 for about 4 years now and i really like it. The only complaints i have is i got the one before they had the ez ject system and the little ejecter sucks. Actually it dont suck but you do have to mess with it alot but it works fine with average size cases but if you go small (9mm) or big it will give you headaches so i took mine out and just pull them off by hand but the new EZ ject works alot better i hear. Now the primer slot does have to be clean but i never have problems wiht it. Other than that it works like a dream and is so easy to change over and the powder measure seems to be very accurate.
 
#98
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

This thread is from a ways back but its a good one...

My summary of the pages would be that both the 650 and LNL can have primer feeding issues and spill powder into the mechanism. Both have their fans and detractors but I thought the comments on RH/LH ergonomics were good...something you might not know unless you had a chance to use one.

Both companies seem to have responsive customer service but there were a number of comments regarding poorly fitting/loose tolerance parts from Hornady which is something I have experienced myself on some dies I purchased from them. Also from my perspective, as long as Dillon has been in the progressive business and for the price they ask, their system should be very refined but it does not really sound like it is.

It sounded like the primer strip feeding design from RCBS was better than either the Dillon or Hornady method.

Be interested in hear from others on their continued experience with progressive presses.
 
#99
Re: Dillon XL650 Vs Hornady LnL Vs RCBS 2000

I have struggled with a Hornady LNL AP for about 6 months now. Constant problems with high primers. Now, I am having problems with everything coming loose. I have to keep several allen wrenches, combo wrenches, screwdrivers, etc. laying on the bench, where I should have room to work. Keeping an eye on the press, to keep it from falling apart, and to check to see if every case gets primed, has become a royal PITA. It keeps me from paying more attention to the things I need to pay attention to while loading. Hornady has , for the most part, been helpful. One of their techs did tell me that he had never heard of the "high primer" problem before. Yeah... The idea for the LNL AP is great, but the manufacturing is total crap. For you folks that have one, and like it, I am glad for you. I wish everyone (that is not an enemy) firearms, and reloading equipment that work satisfactory. I bought a Dillon RL550B from Brian Enos, to use while I ironed out the problems on the LNL. It works fine. I am now looking for someone that would like to own a LNL AP, because I no longer want to own it. I thought I had too much invested in it to let it go, but I now know that I will be much better off with a Dillon 650. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the LNL. I just have one that is sub-standard, and I do not want ot go through the trouble, and money, to send it back to Hornady several times when they have techs that think there is nothing wrong with the POS. I have hand loaded for over 20 years. I own RCBS, Dillon, Forster, Lee, Redding and Hornady products. The only (unsolved) problems I have had is with Hornady. I have purchased many Hornady products, and the only problems I have had is with the LNL AP.
 
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