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Suppressors Does Anyone Leave the Suppressor on ALWAYS?

Morrisongd

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 17, 2010
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Hi...
Quick question. I've got a .338 Lapua AIAW SM with an AWC ThunderTrap Suppressor...SB 5-25X56. Great set up...love it and zeroed it yesterday at 600 to hit tin cans and bowling pins with regularity. I also shot at 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 yard distances and recorded all my scope settings.

Here is the question:

If I take off the can...I'm afraid I will loose all those zeros. It took me all day to gather this data. Then I was thinking...I could just leave the suppressor on...but then it does not fit in the bag/possible cleaning issues. Hmmm.

It may hold those zeros with the can removed and reinstalled...I just haven't tried as the gun is fairly new to me. I'm hoping it does...but from my reading here, it appears it probably wont.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Gavin
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

I have not had POI changes with mine being taken on/off. I have a can for centerfire and a seperate one for rimfire and haven't noticed any changes with either. BTW, nice rig !
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

I leave mine on my 308 unless i clean the gun which is pretty rare , the barrel is only 16" so the over all length is about the same as a typical rifle.
I dont have any reason to take it off , it reduces muzzle jump , noise and my loads are tuned for it
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YTALER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have not had POI changes with mine being taken on/off. I have a can for centerfire and a seperate one for rimfire and haven't noticed any changes with either. BTW, nice rig ! </div></div>

...then you're one in 500,000.

OP...run it without the can and see what it does. Minor POI changes are VERY common.
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

The only thing I would be concerned about with leaving it on is buildup and heat getting so bad that you CAN'T get the can off - I took a class with a guy once who had that issue. It was on a semi-auto, though, so different ball of wax.
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BravoSector1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YTALER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have not had POI changes with mine being taken on/off. I have a can for centerfire and a seperate one for rimfire and haven't noticed any changes with either. BTW, nice rig ! </div></div>

...then you're one in 500,000.

OP...run it without the can and see what it does. Minor POI changes are VERY common. </div></div>

The OP can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe he is wanting to know if there will be a POI change if he takes the can off and then puts it back on. NOT shooting with the can vs. without.
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

I run an AWC Raider on my Noveske 18" 5.56 SPR rig other than for cleaning this baddass stays permanently attached to this platform. After removal for cleaning then reattachment there is minuscule(1/4-5/16") vertical shift.After about 10-15 rds. it seems to realign itself.
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

Thanks for the replies. I plan on ALWAYS using the suppressor… I just need to know if I will have a change of impact when it's taken off and reinstalled. I will do a test with the suppressor to see if there's a point of impact change when removed, then re-installed. If there is no change, I can remove the can at will with no worries.... But if there's a 4 inch change at 300 yards then taking it off after every range session will not be an option. I'll just have to find a different bag to carry it in and leave it on all the time. Thanks for your thoughts and replies... and I will let you know how this turns out.
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

Is it a thread on panic flinch? If so poi shift is less, if it is a QD most quality supp will have repeatable poi shifts. My advise is to use a log book and document what your rifle does with/ without supp, and cold bore, clean v/s fouled barrel etc...... A good data book will save you worlds of headaches.
Thanks
Joe M
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

Yes I do plan on getting a logbook. I have logged and photographed everything via my iPhone thus far. I have 70 rounds (three range sessions) through the rifle so far.

My rifle shoots better with the SUPPRESSOR then with the muzzle brake. Therefore, I have no intention of firing the rifle with just the muzzle brake in the future. I also have a 3 inch point of impact change with the SUPPRESSOR on versus the muzzle brake. With the SUPPRESSOR on the impact is 3 inches high into the right at 2 o'clock at 100 yards.

What I'm really hoping is that I can fire 10 perfect shots at 100 yards with the SUPPRESSOR… Unscrew it... put it back on and fire those 10 perfect shots again with no change of point of impact. I have not done this test yet but I will let you know.

(Trying to work up a load...84 grains VV N560...300gr SMK.....Winchester large magnum rifle primers...Lapua Brass...not neck turned...body then neck sized with Redding Competition Bushing Set (.365 bushing)...Forster trimmed to 2.714....and COAL of 3.730.) Holding a 6 inch 5 round group at 600 yards... But know I can find a better load and would like to cut that in half. I'm hitting bowling pins and tin cans with regularity at 600, but would like to see a three-inch group on paper.

The suppressor (AWC ThunderTrap not titanium) is threaded and comes to an abrupt stop when it hits the shoulder of the barrel. I tighten it by hand very firmly so that it can't come loose. I check it often and haven't needed Teflon tape on the threads thus far. I try to repeat the torque value when tightening by hand, but I know that's impossible.

My scope turrets have not been altered from the factory settings.(mil/mil) I have NOT raised the turret caps by way of Allen wrench and set to zero. Using AI MOUNT with 44 MOA. Knowing that, here are my zero settings on the dial:

Elevation

100 yards......2.2 on the dial
200 yards......2.8
300 yards......3.4
400 yards......4.0
500 yards......4.8
600 yards......5.6

Windage.... Only one click right from 0.

As a newbie... The variables seem endless to unlock the Rubicks Cube of accuracy....And I'm trying to decide which variable should be tweaked first vs last... Still studying...

Regards,
Panic Flinch

Ft Meade........Range 1......600 yards
Quantico.........Range 4....1000 yards
FLETC............Range 6......100 yards indoor
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Panic Flinch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi...
Quick question. I've got a .338 Lapua AIAW SM with an AWC ThunderTrap Suppressor...SB 5-25X56. Great set up...love it and zeroed it yesterday at 600 to hit tin cans and bowling pins with regularity. I also shot at 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 yard distances and recorded all my scope settings.

Here is the question:

If I take off the can...I'm afraid I will loose all those zeros. It took me all day to gather this data. Then I was thinking...I could just leave the suppressor on...but then it does not fit in the bag/possible cleaning issues. Hmmm.

It may hold those zeros with the can removed and reinstalled...I just haven't tried as the gun is fairly new to me. I'm hoping it does...but from my reading here, it appears it probably wont.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Gavin
</div></div>

Take a Sharpe marker and put a index mark(small) on the can the the barrel. Then you can take it off and ensure to return it to the marked spot. This will work 99% of the time. I use this with a lot of guns that use the same can, and want to keep the POI under control. Hope this helps.
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Panic Flinch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

My scope turrets have not been altered from the factory settings.(mil/mil) I have NOT raised the turret caps by way of Allen wrench and set to zero. Using AI MOUNT with 44 MOA. Knowing that, here are my zero settings on the dial:

Elevation

100 yards......2.2 on the dial
200 yards......2.8
300 yards......3.4
400 yards......4.0
500 yards......4.8
600 yards......5.6

Windage.... Only one click right from 0.

As a newbie... The variables seem endless to unlock the Rubicks Cube of accuracy....And I'm trying to decide which variable should be tweaked first vs last... Still studying...

Regards,
Panic Flinc </div></div>

Reset your knobs to zero once you've confirmed your 100y zero (or whatever zero you want to run). There is no danger or mystery in this. Just follow the instructions in your manual which will basically say to loosen the small hex screw(s) on each knob and spin to zero before retightening the hex screw(s). Do this before you do anything else.
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

Definately test it and see if it is repeatable. I leave mine on except for cleaning and get great repeatable results. But as much as I leave it on, there may be a reason you have to take it off and the worry about whether it will be on again will kill you if you don't know for certain. When mine is ready for cleaning I clean after I have finished shooting for the day, the put the can back on and confirm zero before I put it back up, no worries then.
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

I always run with my suppressor on no matter what but my AWC Thundertrap is a heavy can and I have a POI shift at 100yrds about 3/4in and to the right I want to say.....? Its been so long since I shot without it...and it was just a handful of times then I realized for my purposes there was no need to take it off.
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

Ok, what's a repeatable POI shift? You put the suppressor on, zero, take the suppressor off. Wait two days, put the suppressor on and take cold bore shot.

Where is it???

All things being equal, shouldn't the POI be pretty much the same?
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Spade 13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, what's a repeatable POI shift? You put the suppressor on, zero, take the suppressor off. Wait two days, put the suppressor on and take cold bore shot.

Where is it???

All things being equal, shouldn't the POI be pretty much the same? </div></div>

Yes , if its the same weapn shooting the same ammo through the same can with a climate the same taking a can off and on should have no problem with returing to zero , some fast attach cans are said to have an issue though but vener heard of it with a thread mount can unless the things wasent screwed on tight
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BravoSector1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YTALER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have not had POI changes with mine being taken on/off. I have a can for centerfire and a seperate one for rimfire and haven't noticed any changes with either. BTW, nice rig ! </div></div>

...then you're one in 500,000.

OP...run it without the can and see what it does. Minor POI changes are VERY common. </div></div>

My SureFire cans dont shift..... guess we are at 2 and 500,000?
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

UPDATE....Great news guys… I was able to shoot bowling pins at 600 yards take the can off .... put the can back on and shoot bowling pins again!!! As a side note, I did everything I could to try and replicate the torque I put on the suppressor initially. The Suppressor is threaded. I did not get a visual of the shots on paper so I'm not exactly certain if the group size changed at all.... but I figured the bowling pin has got to be sub MOA.

I was really afraid that the group would be 4 to 5 inches off at 600 yards with the can removed then replaced... but it didn't happen, Whew! I can hang onto this AWC… Although the thunder beast is looking very tempting!

Happy shooting..... panic flinch
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

My POI stays the same and I put my can on and take it off every time I shoot, for portability. When I was considering shooting competitions with the can on, I went to the range and shot groups taking the can on and off and had no issues. Mine is a thread on AWC ThunderTrap.
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

I've never had any POI shifts between sessions. I never shoot the rilfes I have set up for suppressed without a suppressor, but I do have zeros and separate ballistics charts for non-suppressed just in case. This is with QD mounts, not threaded.
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

I run a thunder east 30 p and I get a a consistent .6 mil shift straight down with the can on. The can comes off every time and when it goes on it always shifts .6 mils straight down. The key is the shift is consistent.
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

I always take mine off after shooting, because it will contain humidity with among others ammonia. This will create a corrosive environment on the end of your barrel, and we can all understand thats not good. Maybe you wont have rust at once, or maybe you shoot your suppressor so hot that most of the humidity will evaporate, but i guarantee you that it is better for your barrel to take it off. I have 7 supressors out of which ive made two myself. None of them creates a POI change when taken off and put on. If i shoot without the silencer, the POI change is about an inch. All are threaded, threads used are 1/2"x20 UNF, M14x1,5, M14x1 and M18x1,5.
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

Also i have to add that it is very important to tighten your silencer good. I normally gives it a good fast twist, and lets it "clonck" on tightly.
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

I leave all of my suppressors on the rifles that I bought them for... Originally my plan was to have just a couple "multipurpose" cans, but for some reason and 14 cans later than didn't happen. Now I do have a few cheap YHM thread-on .223 & .308 cans that I keep around as spares for friends and family to use when they are with me. Other than that I keep all of my cans on the rifles at all times; even during transport & storage. I only remove them when the rifle is cleaned at which time I clean the can as well!!!

Good luck!!!
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

You'd be hard pressed to find a decent case that will fit a suppressed bolt gun.
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

Leaving your can on...

Depends on your can, as mentioned above. Having said that, a couple of things, regardless of whose can it is and how it is attached to the barrel.

1. Condensation : In some environments a cooling can will create sweating that can roll back into your barrel and have real consequences. Secondly, if you are running a gas gun, it can run back into your gas system and have greater consequences.

2. The crud effect : It is always a good idea to occasionally dismount your can. Clean the carbon, especially if your running some powders off of the QD, threads or most importantly the crown.

3. Never hurts to handle the can every number of rounds to check for tightness.
 
Re: Does Anyone Leave the Suppressor on ALWAYS?

damnit man..we are visual folk here...you have to post a picture for some eye candy
 
Re: Does Anyone Leave the Suppressor on ALWAYS?

Silencer ON:
IMG_0455.jpg

IMG_2065.jpg


And the last rifle is now OD-green:)
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sirhitalot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I always take mine off after shooting, because it will contain humidity with among others ammonia. This will create a corrosive environment on the end of your barrel, and we can all understand thats not good. Maybe you wont have rust at once, or maybe you shoot your suppressor so hot that most of the humidity will evaporate, but i guarantee you that it is better for your barrel to take it off. I have 7 supressors out of which ive made two myself. None of them creates a POI change when taken off and put on. If i shoot without the silencer, the POI change is about an inch. All are threaded, threads used are 1/2"x20 UNF, M14x1,5, M14x1 and M18x1,5. </div></div>


This is really good advice! Don't leave the can on when you're done shooting and don't clean the barrel with the can on. There are a number of reasons for this. To start-Rifle cal suppressors don't like to have loose crap in them so all those flakes of carbon knocked off when the cleaning rod hit a baffle or the bits of wire from the brush or god forbid a patch could cause some serious damage if a bullet hits one and deflects. I've repaired some suppressors that had unexplained baffle strikes and in more than one case debris was found in the can that could have caused it.
Next is what I quoted from SirHitalot above-condensation and moisture trapping. Smokeless powder leaves a pretty large quantity of water vapor in its passing. If it condenses on a cold can it can cause corrosion. Reacting with the nitrogen by-products of combustion it will create ammonia (as he noted) and even if you heat the can up enough to remove all liquid water you will still have vapor. When the gun and can cool it will condense on the surfaces that cool first.....likely the barrel will be one of these. I've seen some serious pitting on the last few inches of bore in a couple guns where owners left the can on and put them in a case to take home. I always recommend an oily patch through the bore after removing the can prior to casing the rifle. Stainless barrels are nice for dedicated suppressed rifles as well.
In all the research we've done with poi changes it appears that as long as you get the suppressor torqued to about the same everytime you won't have any changes on any one particular rifle. Swapping from one to the other will change things of course. Also using a mark to line up when reinstalling is a bad idea. Over time your thread lockup may change and the mating surfaces wear. This will allow the can to come loose if you just tighten it to a certain point. Tighten to a torque even if its just you saying, "thats about as tight as last time". The cans change on the poi will change if its in a different position but not usually by a lot so make sure its tight and check it occasionally. Some threads let things loosen and others seem to stay tight but check anyway. A loose can will be trouble for your groups and also can create baffle and endcap strikes.

Hope that helps

Frank
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: biffj</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sirhitalot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I always take mine off after shooting, because it will contain humidity with among others ammonia. This will create a corrosive environment on the end of your barrel, and we can all understand thats not good. Maybe you wont have rust at once, or maybe you shoot your suppressor so hot that most of the humidity will evaporate, but i guarantee you that it is better for your barrel to take it off. I have 7 supressors out of which ive made two myself. None of them creates a POI change when taken off and put on. If i shoot without the silencer, the POI change is about an inch. All are threaded, threads used are 1/2"x20 UNF, M14x1,5, M14x1 and M18x1,5. </div></div>


This is really good advice! Don't leave the can on when you're done shooting and don't clean the barrel with the can on. There are a number of reasons for this. To start-Rifle cal suppressors don't like to have loose crap in them so all those flakes of carbon knocked off when the cleaning rod hit a baffle or the bits of wire from the brush or god forbid a patch could cause some serious damage if a bullet hits one and deflects. I've repaired some suppressors that had unexplained baffle strikes and in more than one case debris was found in the can that could have caused it.
Next is what I quoted from SirHitalot above-condensation and moisture trapping. Smokeless powder leaves a pretty large quantity of water vapor in its passing. If it condenses on a cold can it can cause corrosion. Reacting with the nitrogen by-products of combustion it will create ammonia (as he noted) and even if you heat the can up enough to remove all liquid water you will still have vapor. When the gun and can cool it will condense on the surfaces that cool first.....likely the barrel will be one of these. I've seen some serious pitting on the last few inches of bore in a couple guns where owners left the can on and put them in a case to take home. I always recommend an oily patch through the bore after removing the can prior to casing the rifle. Stainless barrels are nice for dedicated suppressed rifles as well.
In all the research we've done with poi changes it appears that as long as you get the suppressor torqued to about the same everytime you won't have any changes on any one particular rifle. Swapping from one to the other will change things of course. Also using a mark to line up when reinstalling is a bad idea. Over time your thread lockup may change and the mating surfaces wear. This will allow the can to come loose if you just tighten it to a certain point. Tighten to a torque even if its just you saying, "thats about as tight as last time". The cans change on the poi will change if its in a different position but not usually by a lot so make sure its tight and check it occasionally. Some threads let things loosen and others seem to stay tight but check anyway. A loose can will be trouble for your groups and also can create baffle and endcap strikes.

Hope that helps

Frank</div></div>

So what do the guys that run integrally suppressed systems do? Can't take off when they are done shooting right? Also what kind of cleaning procedure do they have?
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

Most integrals are .22LR and they normally come apart for cleaning. I make a replica of the High Standard HDMS that the OSS used in WWII. Its an integral and it comes apart for cleaning. I tell people to disassemble prior to cleaning and to use a brush through the barrel only after removing baffles. With a .22LR you can also use WD40, BreakFree, CLP or some other oily lube in the can to shoot with. That helps keep the moisture from causing problems with the barrel. 9mm and other pistol cal integrals are very similar and can also use oil or grease without worry about damage. On the other hand you don't want oil or grease in a rifle cal suppressor for the same reasons you don't want other floating debris. I have seen a rifle can split due to overpressure caused by water in the can converting to steam. The pressure in a .223 is already high enough and some lightweight cans are on edge as it is. Add the pressure of superheated steam and pow. When you find a manufacturer who makes an integral rifle can it would do you well to ask him these questions. ...Rifle and pistol cans are different animals so ask the manufacturer of the can before trying something you're not sure is right.

Hope that answers you.

Frank
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sirhitalot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I always take mine off after shooting, because it will contain humidity with among others ammonia. This will create a corrosive environment on the end of your barrel, and we can all understand thats not good. Maybe you wont have rust at once, or maybe you shoot your suppressor so hot that most of the humidity will evaporate, but i guarantee you that it is better for your barrel to take it off. I have 7 supressors out of which ive made two myself. None of them creates a POI change when taken off and put on. If i shoot without the silencer, the POI change is about an inch. All are threaded, threads used are 1/2"x20 UNF, M14x1,5, M14x1 and M18x1,5. </div></div>

THIS. YHM told me it traps moisture. I just keep it next to the rifle. If you shoot a rifle a bunch and leave it on there for a couple weeks and then take it off you can see that shit bleeding into the barrel.
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YTALER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry , I thought he was asking if it changed by just taking it off and then putting it back on. </div></div>

I was making remarks to BravoSector.... he claimed they all shift. At 100 yards, I cant tell a shift with my Surefire cans.
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

A dehumidifier is a good investment guys..... or a golden rod in your safe. I run two dehumifiers in opposite corners of the room to keep everything leveled out all year round. I have had NO rust issues keeping the cans on after a good brush down. The only cans I have issues with are Gemtech Sandstorms because they are uncoated Ti.
 
Re: Does Anyone Their Suppressor on... Always?....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CAT5</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a .45 Ti rant on a 9in 300BLK that wont come off...
I can still open the can and all is fine except for the fact its there... </div></div>

Get it hot and use an oven mitt to remove it.