Suppressors Done it all, AR still filthy when suppressed

[Dirty8404]

I’d recommend a quality barrel with appropriate length gas system, H buffer, and grease. 14.5 middy will be my next one. It will run like a sewing machine.

Ever shoot an M1A/M14? Piston in that thing is serious, same with AK. Piston in a AR is tiny, I’ve heard stories of them breaking, it’s an abortion.

Disclaimer: never owned one, only heard things secondhand.

 

[Snuby642]

A clean and prepped boresnake is something I figure an Alaskan would have
Handy.

No skivies iether, dont you get cold?

Do your balls hang low? Do they swing to and fro?
Can you tie 'em in a knot? Can you tie 'em in a bow?
Can you throw 'em o'er your shoulder like a Continental soldier?
Can you do the double shuffle when your balls hang low?

Couldn't resist. Lol

 

[2ndamendfan]

After seeing most of these replies I’m very seriously considering the AA or superlative arms Piston kit (not sure I want to shell out for the Pof just yet). I’m gonna swap a few parts around just Incase there’s something flukey, but if that fails it looks like I’ll be going to the dark side and doing a piston.

I have a couple pistons one being and AA and so far with limited usage it has pretty damn poor accuracy. I am not an accuracy snob. I am sure 95% + here can out shoot me. But I can hold my own. I dont shoot groups, they phsyc me out normally. I go for hits. Be it a 4" gong at 100 or 600, a hit is a hit and a miss is a miss. But when 1 MOA is not at all difficult for me and I pick up the AA equipped AR and it is 4 MOA I am pretty disapointed. Only a couple hundreds rounds down the tube and there are a lot of varibles but so far worst AR I have ever seen.
Just saying.
Is it better with a suppressor NO!!! DId you not read my first post? The carbon and grime is coming from the pressure still left in the camber/barrel when the case is pulled from the cahmber. Do you really believe that the gas tube with a ID of .090 is flowing 100 times more crap with a suppressor? .090 can only flow so much.
Think about it for just a minute. You need to slow down the cycle rate. 99% sure you will not be able to tell the difference between DI and piston with suppressor on.

 

[Mooncake]

Don't cobble together your own piston rifle. If you want a piston rifle do it right.
https://www.lwrci.com/p-329-ic-a5.aspx
With the block on the suppressed setting and an AR gas vent in place of the useless forward assist, gas to the face is non existent -- except the gas that belches out of the ejection port which you will have in any autoloading weapon.
I have two and both are around 1MOA accurate, the fit and finish couldn't be any better. Most of the parts are made in house in the USA. Exceptional quality rifles.

 

[veeramani]

The problem with eye pro, is when your out on a long walk, they always fog up + its another thing to get snagged on to by the bushes.

I think the advice from John Noveske when he said if you want a piston gun, get something designed from the ground up for a piston.

The problem with an AR is that if the round gets stuck in the chamber, its a catastrophic failure. there's no charging handle to stomp on to force the bcg backwards.

An AK is more forgiving that way, sure its overgassed but it doesn't get the chamber jamming like an AR. IMHO, any suppressed rifle should be used when only a few shots are going to be fired.
Or better yet a bolt action rifle where you won't have any problems at all apart from the can getting seized on the muzzle threads

 

[veeramani]

The eye pro thing, I don't know maybe I sweat more, but they always fog up or have sweat/grime get in the way when I'm doing long hikes.

I'm just speaking from my own experience. The AR I had was a 11.5 inch heavy barreled type, which I always shoot suppressed because it was too loud and had a big muzzle flash without the can but need to keep a long screwdriver in the backpack incase it seized up.

I'd always cleaned it after every outing. I found that it would jam after say 50 suppressed rounds of good ammo like FNB 55gr.

I've seen an 10.5 inch upper used by some SF type in the sandbox with an adams arms piston kit that the guy shot so much that the rifling was almost non-existent. But he said it ran fine so maybe the piston is the way to go with AR.

I've never had this problem with other suppressed guns like AKs, FNFAL or even STEYR AUG.

As for the M1A, sure its a bit less accurate than an AR10 but atleast you know 100% that it'll go bang when you pull the trigger + you can always beat the deer up, if you have no ammo

 

[RTH1800]

What, no bayonet? ?

 

[Dirty8404]

I've seen an 10.5 inch upper used by some SF type in the sandbox with an adams arms piston kit that the guy shot so much that the rifling was almost non-existent. But he said it ran fine so maybe the piston is the way to go with AR.

No.

 

[2ndamendfan]

There is a shit ton of dumbass/bullshit going on here. If you are getting cases stuck in your chamber you have a gun problem. Suppressed or not.
Been there done that.
Tune/fix the gun.

 

[veeramani]

Its not empty cases, its live rounds not going into battery. When you pry the bolt open the round is covered in soot. so maybe it doesn't fit well into the chamber anymore, once the system gets too dirty.

Just speaking from experience.

 

[JMGlasgow]

Is the M14 more accurate than the AR10?

They can be with a lot of work. I'd put my Glen Nelson built Supermatch against a similar match grade AR10.

Here's a little clip from an article about his rifles:

To give the reader an idea of what is possible with the M14 rifle and a talented armorer, the following will illustrate the point. In April 1986, Glenn Nelson built a Super Match M1A rifle from stripped receiverserial number 033187. The build included all TRW parts and a National Match rear sight. After final assembly, this rifle was tested on a machine rest. It grouped fourteen shots under the size of a nickel at 200 yards with 168 grain Sierra bullets. The test target was presented to the buyer, a member of the Second Army ShootingTeam.

 

[George from Alaska]

I like the piston Ruger SR that I have in 5.56 but I've seen nothing but problems and money being thrown into a pit when people try to use piston platforms to build their own Blackout SBR and then try to suppress it. Pain in the ass and almost always have to throw in an expensive bcg and an adjustable. I helped a soldier get his project going by suggesting he try an Odinworks many adjustments gas regulator. He was frustrated beyond belief at the unreliability of his sbr when he ran subsonics Blkouts in it. I have quite a variety of Blackout ammo as I have a small FFL shop and what finally worked best for him was the absolutely filthy, but inexpensive Remington UMC 220 grain subs. He is gone now, transferred, but I've wondered how the S&B subsonic I now buy by the case would do in his setup. It works great in all my 300's, suppressed or not. DI is the only way to go for me with a suppressed sbr. Anyone bought or built a piston Blackout sbr that runs fine suppressed or not?

 

[wigwamitus]

I just ran about 2,000 rds thru 18 inch 5.56 suppressed without cleaning it ... shot it till it wouldn't shoot ... first 1,500 rds were Black Hill new (red box) 77gr ... then 400 rds IMI 77gr ... then 100rds "Sheepdog" 77gr ... then it wouldn't shoot the FGMM 77gr ... my solution is to clean it ... it took 5m to work the firing pin out ... it was jammed tight .. .and another 5m to work the cam pin out .. it was jammed tighter ...
The two fastener hex screws holding the Timney "drop in" were loose ... the right side one two half turns loose (that's REAL loose) ... the left side one was one half turn loose (that's still pretty loose). I long ago put anti-travel roll pins in for the hammer and trigger ...

I'm also thinking about the AA piston conversion ...

And about changing out the Timney trigger ... that trigger has never been more than about 99% reliable ... I'd like a bunch more reliability ...

I have an AGB on there and this gun would not work without it ... I have to adjust it several times per year ... various combinations of seasons, suppressors and ammo seem to drive a need to "tune" the AGB.

But, this gun is still tempermental. Time for some new parts !

==
Edit, it's a mid-length ...

After cleaning went out and fired 20rds ... all is fine ... I guess you have to clean the impingment 556(18) mid-lengths with suppressors ... every now and then .. .whether you want to or not

==

 

[ThatOneGuy2830]

I recently took a course in July where I ran about 2,500 rounds through my BCM. I shot roughly 1,200 rounds suppressed through the rifle. Did not clean it during the course. Federal XM193 was the ammo used. BCM mid with 16 inch barrel. From what I have learned in use of suppressors is I have a bottle of lube on me during courses. SLP 2000 EWL does real well with extreme use. I use quite a lot of it but never had any issues with extraction or jamming. It gets incredibly dirty to the point of sludge falling out of the rifle. BCM also has a extractor upgrade kit which really can help. Spikes Tactical buffers can also help slow down the BCG. Here are some pics from the second day of the course. AR’s get dirty!

 

[Snuby642]

I've never ran that many without a cleaning, but bet you could go all summer long.
Try that in the winter and results will probably be different.

 

[Mike4837]

I don't have the depth of experience that some guys have here, but I'll share my experience setting up my 11.5 SBR with suppressor this summer.

The specs are as follows:

BCM Upper and Lower receivers
BCM Intermediate buffer system which uses Vltor A5 rifle buffers and springs
Vltor A5-H4 buffer
Geissele SDC trigger
Noveske 12.5" CHF Chrome Lined Lo-Pro barrel cut down to 11.5"
Geissele mk14 9.5" rail
LMT Enhanced bolt carrier
Noveske standard bolt
SiCo ASR 5.56 suppressor

I'm at 1100 rounds without cleaning and 700 of that is without malfunctions of any kind. I lube it liberally, but I haven't cleaned it. I'm trying to find the failure point where it just won't run reliably without cleaning. Almost all of it is suppressed. Now, you may ask, why 1100 round but only 700 without issue? I started out using the LMT Enhanced BCG including their enhanced bolt. After about 200 rounds I started having failures to extract. It appeared the extractor was just letting go of the brass and trying to cycle with the case still in the chamber. I tried the Gemtech BCG to try and remedy this, and it work for a little while, but started having the same problem. This is a duty rifle so I have to have it work suppressed and unsuppressed so you may have noticed I added many parts specifically to slow the cycle down. I finally switched to the standard noveske bolt that came with the barrel at the 400 round mark and have had zero issues since. LMT's bolt uses a different extractor design, and I'm not saying it's bad, but it didn't seem to work for me. The claw looked normal, sharp and undamaged so I don't believe it's a mechanical problem. All that to say, I would make sure your parts are quality, lube it well and don't believe that suppressed rifles have to be cleaned excessively. If you can't get it to cycle past 150 rounds, some thing is wrong. The trick is figuring out what is wrong.

Side note: It runs flawlessly unsuppressed as well.

 

[Timney USA]

I just ran about 2,000 rds thru 18 inch 5.56 suppressed without cleaning it ... shot it till it wouldn't shoot ... first 1,500 rds were Black Hill new (red box) 77gr ... then 400 rds IMI 77gr ... then 100rds "Sheepdog" 77gr ... then it wouldn't shoot the FGMM 77gr ... my solution is to clean it ... it took 5m to work the firing pin out ... it was jammed tight .. .and another 5m to work the cam pin out .. it was jammed tighter ...
The two fastener hex screws holding the Timney "drop in" were loose ... the right side one two half turns loose (that's REAL loose) ... the left side one was one half turn loose (that's still pretty loose). I long ago put anti-travel roll pins in for the hammer and trigger ...

I'm also thinking about the AA piston conversion ...

And about changing out the Timney trigger ... that trigger has never been more than about 99% reliable ... I'd like a bunch more reliability ...

I have an AGB on there and this gun would not work without it ... I have to adjust it several times per year ... various combinations of seasons, suppressors and ammo seem to drive a need to "tune" the AGB.

But, this gun is still tempermental. Time for some new parts !

==
Edit, it's a mid-length ...

After cleaning went out and fired 20rds ... all is fine ... I guess you have to clean the impingment 556(18) mid-lengths with suppressors ... every now and then .. .whether you want to or not

==

If you have any trigger issues, please let us know. They have a lifetime warranty!

 

[2ndamendfan]

I just ran about 2,000 rds thru 18 inch 5.56 suppressed without cleaning it ... shot it till it wouldn't shoot ... first 1,500 rds were Black Hill new (red box) 77gr ... then 400 rds IMI 77gr ... then 100rds "Sheepdog" 77gr ... then it wouldn't shoot the FGMM 77gr ... my solution is to clean it ... it took 5m to work the firing pin out ... it was jammed tight .. .and another 5m to work the cam pin out .. it was jammed tighter ...
The two fastener hex screws holding the Timney "drop in" were loose ... the right side one two half turns loose (that's REAL loose) ... the left side one was one half turn loose (that's still pretty loose). I long ago put anti-travel roll pins in for the hammer and trigger ...

I'm also thinking about the AA piston conversion ...

And about changing out the Timney trigger ... that trigger has never been more than about 99% reliable ... I'd like a bunch more reliability ...

I have an AGB on there and this gun would not work without it ... I have to adjust it several times per year ... various combinations of seasons, suppressors and ammo seem to drive a need to "tune" the AGB.

But, this gun is still tempermental. Time for some new parts !

==
Edit, it's a mid-length ...

After cleaning went out and fired 20rds ... all is fine ... I guess you have to clean the impingment 556(18) mid-lengths with suppressors ... every now and then .. .whether you want to or not

==

/
On the Timney trigger you have both allen set screws in both holes? there should be a set screw on top of the first one. first one tightens the trigger to the trigger pins by lifting it up applying pressure to the pins. Second set screw goes down the hole and tightens on the first to be come a "jamb nut" to prevent the first from coming loose.
If properly done it is a pretty fool-proof design.

 

[wigwamitus]

Yeah, this one doesn't have the second set of set screws ... back in the day when this lower got built, I let the "gunsmith" do it. I've learned to do it myself since. Perhaps the gunsmith forgot to put in those screws. So that explains why they always come loose!

 

[Timney USA]

Yeah, this one doesn't have the second set of set screws ... back in the day when this lower got built, I let the "gunsmith" do it. I've learned to do it myself since. Perhaps the gunsmith forgot to put in those screws. So that explains why they always come loose!

Give us a call and we would be happy to send you out a screw kit. or you can return it and we can look it all over and make sure its 100%. These guys are correct, in a lot of triggers you need the KNS type pins to hold them. In our triggers you do not as these set screws hold it tight.

 

[charger23]

Not a easy solution but an OSS can would cure this.

 

[wigwamitus]

Give us a call and we would be happy to send you out a screw kit. or you can return it and we can look it all over and make sure its 100%. These guys are correct, in a lot of triggers you need the KNS type pins to hold them. In our triggers you do not as these set screws hold it tight.

I need to do this.. Thanks!

 

[TimeWillTell]

Not a easy solution but an OSS can would cure this.

I'm interested to learn more about these and watch closely over next year or so. My big problem is they have seemed to change the design a lot in last few years (yes I know management changes and stuff) but nothing sucks more than having your can be obsolete before even out of ATF jail.

I am especially interested as it seems to meter well at the ear. I'm not in war so I don't care a lot about what it meters at the muzzle. There seems to be no free lunch with an AR: either sub-140 dB at the muzzle or at the shooter, not both.

 

[charger23]

I'm interested to learn more about these and watch closely over next year or so. My big problem is they have seemed to change the design a lot in last few years (yes I know management changes and stuff) but nothing sucks more than having your can be obsolete before even out of ATF jail.

I am especially interested as it seems to meter well at the ear. I'm not in war so I don't care a lot about what it meters at the muzzle. There seems to be no free lunch with an AR: either sub-140 dB at the muzzle or at the shooter, not both.

I’ll tell you I own the helix non QD in both 5.56 and 7.62. The 5.56 sits on a 12.5” LWRC upper and is hearing safe at the shooters ear. Shorter than this I wouldn’t bet on hearing safe but I can’t say. I don’t believe it unless I do it myself. Suppressing anything short in 5.56 is difficult which is why I’m stoked I’m hearing safe at 12.5”. I call hearing safe no ringing in my ears. Full disclosure, this is all I care about. I don’t give two shits about anyone else but the shooter because I am the shooter. The 7.62 is on a 16” LWRC REPR. It is most definitely hearing safe. Both guns have adjustable gas blocks and if I don’t run them on normal, aka I suppressed, with the can on mind you, hey won’t cycle. There is no backpressure. I am very impressed by both cans. Now, there have been a lot of changes to the overall design. I’ve been following them for years but never bought in until the helix cans were released. They are multi piece, therefore not quickly moved from rifle to rifle. I own about 15 cans. I don’t like having to move them if you don’t have to when you can have a dedicated can so I’m not too butthurt about the new Helix QD cans being released because I have more cans than guns now. Now that they are available though, I don’t know how anyone can justly choose another can for semi auto platform shooting. The naysayers will talk about the older cans complexity and price point etc. All that shit went right out the window with the QD helix. They are now the same QD system that everyone offers except better designed and 900 or less. The benefits of the can over baffles is undeniable. HK didn’t choose OSS for the CSASS because they are average, but because they are the best for the platform. I’m not going to go into the multitude of benefits, I’ll let you do your own research. Regarding new tech, I don’t see the design changing much now that they’ve gotten the same tech built into a QD one piece design. There will be some fine tuning I’m sure, but nothing revolutionary as revolutionary has already been accomplished. Check out the new reviews on YouTube of the helix QD system. Also, silencershop now carries OSS so I expect to see a lot more of them out on the range. PM me if you want more ear banging.

 

[TimeWillTell]

I’ll tell you I own the helix non QD in both 5.56 and 7.62. The 5.56 sits on a 12.5” LWRC upper and is hearing safe at the shooters ear. Shorter than this I wouldn’t bet on hearing safe but I can’t say. I don’t believe it unless I do it myself. Suppressing anything short in 5.56 is difficult which is why I’m stoked I’m hearing safe at 12.5”. I call hearing safe no ringing in my ears. Full disclosure, this is all I care about. I don’t give two shits about anyone else but the shooter because I am the shooter. The 7.62 is on a 16” LWRC REPR. It is most definitely hearing safe. Both guns have adjustable gas blocks and if I don’t run them on normal, aka I suppressed, with the can on mind you, hey won’t cycle. There is no backpressure. I am very impressed by both cans. Now, there have been a lot of changes to the overall design. I’ve been following them for years but never bought in until the helix cans were released. They are multi piece, therefore not quickly moved from rifle to rifle. I own about 15 cans. I don’t like having to move them if you don’t have to when you can have a dedicated can so I’m not too butthurt about the new Helix QD cans being released because I have more cans than guns now. Now that they are available though, I don’t know how anyone can justly choose another can for semi auto platform shooting. The naysayers will talk about the older cans complexity and price point etc. All that shit went right out the window with the QD helix. They are now the same QD system that everyone offers except better designed and 900 or less. The benefits of the can over baffles is undeniable. HK didn’t choose OSS for the CSASS because they are average, but because they are the best for the platform. I’m not going to go into the multitude of benefits, I’ll let you do your own research. Regarding new tech, I don’t see the design changing much now that they’ve gotten the same tech built into a QD one piece design. There will be some fine tuning I’m sure, but nothing revolutionary as revolutionary has already been accomplished. Check out the new reviews on YouTube of the helix QD system. Also, silencershop now carries OSS so I expect to see a lot more of them out on the range. PM me if you want more ear banging.

That's really good to hear. I have been fighting the urge to buy one but I think you make a good point about their current design and it's similarities to price and attachment as the competitors.

Your second point is why I'm so interested: it seems to be a superior semi-auto can design. Reduced back pressure, hearing safe at the ear. Coincidentally, I'm a LWRC fan and a 12.5" A5 is my plan when I get a form 1 back. Thinking the OSS HX-QD 556 is the can for it!

 

[charger23]

That's really good to hear. I have been fighting the urge to buy one but I think you make a good point about their current design and it's similarities to price and attachment as the competitors.

Your second point is why I'm so interested: it seems to be a superior semi-auto can design. Reduced back pressure, hearing safe at the ear. Coincidentally, I'm a LWRC fan and a 12.5" A5 is my plan when I get a form 1 back. Thinking the OSS HX-QD 556 is the can for it!

Let’s not forget it’s a self tightening taper mount that needs no timing with nearly no backpressure, no gas face, no filthy chambers and magazines, no adjustable gas block necessary, and no additional wear on the platform. It’s a no brainer. On a bolt platform is it still the best? I dunno. I love my TBAC cans but if I had to pick just one can I know which one it would be. Just my two cents. I went to a OSS demo range day and was sold after the first three rounds. Really shows when you go full auto baffle vs OSS.

 

[JeffLebowski]

It’s a carbine length gas system. I’ve looked into the switchblock, but my dumbass pinned and welded the ASR on which means I’m stuck with it for now. Changing it to an sbr nfa is in my near future though. Is there a way to change a carbine to a midlength without swapping barrels?

Stop. You do not know what you do not know. You don’t understand the weapon. Your weapon is not running well. Go get training.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Not a easy solution but an OSS can would cure this.

Or a good AR running nearly any baffle can. His AR being so finicky is indicative of problems with the AR, not the can.

 

[Dirty8404]

Or a good AR running nearly any baffle can. His AR being so finicky is indicative of problems with the AR, not the can.

This man is right. It’s the rifle 100%, not the can.

 

[2ndamendfan]

I figure I explained all that but hey what the hell, go for it guys.

 

[Snuby642]

Hearing safe 5.56, lol
Are you shooting subs?

can you here me? I'm talking to you.

I have ringing 24/7/365, keeps me awake.
Don't be a spaz and wear some earpro, duh!

Subsonic "any cal" with a can, gtg. Anything else is stupid!

Yes I said that! I think , or was that the tv? Maybe the phone?
I can't here good enough to tell anymore, Sob, I should have worn the earpro!

Funny, no not really, reality keep it up, you'll understand eventialy.
It's a suppressor, not a silencer!

 

[charger23]

As I said before my definition of hearing safe is no ringing. Should you be wearing ear pro all the time, yes. Is shooting with a suppressor on still damaging your hearing somewhat, probably, depending on the situation, suppressor, host. Kinda defeats the purpose of the suppressor though if you still need earpro but hey what do I know.

 

[Snuby642]

Suppressors are great, shoot subs all day every day, no earpro.
If you shoot supersonic wear some foamies. Imo
I don't shoot any large bore, so can't say about them.

I opolagise for the rant, overzealous so next gen old guys take better care of
Thier hearing than I did.

 

[ole'soldier]

I have 2 QD AAC suppressors(swap between several AR's) and a Palmetto State Armory direct thread suppressor dedicated to a 10.5" Pistol. That pistol ate everything before I suppressed it, steel ammo, brass, it didn't matter. Then I suppressed it, 2 shots on its maiden voyage and the case stuck on extraction, had to use a rod and smack it out. Ok, I felt I needed to slow it down so I swapped the buffer to one of my heavy's, same result only it wasn't stuck as bad. Swapped the BCG to a PWS Enhanced BCG, now a few shots and stuck again. I was kicking myself for not getting an adjustable gas block and went out to buy one. I went to Tactical Gun Works , a new place out by me and saw they were closed but the owner saw me from inside the store and invited me in.
He asked what was happening and I told him and went on to say I was looking for an adjustable gas block, yeah he had them but told me that wasn't my issue. He looked over my rifle with the stuck case, proceeded to get the stuck case out and clean it for me w/o asking if he could(even turn down my wanting to pay him), then told me you got quality gear, but what you need is this, it was the PWS suppressed buffer. I saw that and something told me I should have opted for it with the PWS BCG but I didn't(I had a PWS H2 in it). He told me I was on the right track with the BCG but the enhanced buffer would solve my timing issue, if it didn't work he would take it back no questions asked. So I bought it, hit the range the next day and ran both steel and brass w/o issue, damn I was smiling again.
Also, I've never had any of my AR's stop due to high round count suppressed that's what compelled me to write this. Someone else mentioned a "gun" issue and you never know. I didn't have to tune my other AR's, they are 16/18/20's and they just run suppressed or not. This 10.5 was the only one I had to "tune". Yes they get dirty but I use EWG on all my AR's and they don't seize up. As for cleaning, I recently tried Shooters Lube Cleaner (I also use CLP mainly) which cleans damn well actually. I also scrub my chamber with a chamber brush on the end of a drill on every AR after every outing and no issues with stuck cases.

 

[2ndamendfan]

I have 2 QD AAC suppressors(swap between several AR's) and a Palmetto State Armory direct thread suppressor dedicated to a 10.5" Pistol. That pistol ate everything before I suppressed it, steel ammo, brass, it didn't matter. Then I suppressed it, 2 shots on its maiden voyage and the case stuck on extraction, had to use a rod and smack it out. Ok, I felt I needed to slow it down so I swapped the buffer to one of my heavy's, same result only it wasn't stuck as bad. Swapped the BCG to a PWS Enhanced BCG, now a few shots and stuck again. I was kicking myself for not getting an adjustable gas block and went out to buy one. I went to Tactical Gun Works , a new place out by me and saw they were closed but the owner saw me from inside the store and invited me in.
He asked what was happening and I told him and went on to say I was looking for an adjustable gas block, yeah he had them but told me that wasn't my issue. He looked over my rifle with the stuck case, proceeded to get the stuck case out and clean it for me w/o asking if he could(even turn down my wanting to pay him), then told me you got quality gear, but what you need is this, it was the PWS suppressed buffer. I saw that and something told me I should have opted for it with the PWS BCG but I didn't(I had a PWS H2 in it). He told me I was on the right track with the BCG but the enhanced buffer would solve my timing issue, if it didn't work he would take it back no questions asked. So I bought it, hit the range the next day and ran both steel and brass w/o issue, damn I was smiling again.
Also, I've never had any of my AR's stop due to high round count suppressed that's what compelled me to write this. Someone else mentioned a "gun" issue and you never know. I didn't have to tune my other AR's, they are 16/18/20's and they just run suppressed or not. This 10.5 was the only one I had to "tune". Yes they get dirty but I use EWG on all my AR's and they don't seize up. As for cleaning, I recently tried Shooters Lube Cleaner (I also use CLP mainly) which cleans damn well actually. I also scrub my chamber with a chamber brush on the end of a drill on every AR after every outing and no issues with stuck cases.

Buffer weight changes timing just as you were told. More weight has more inertia (newtons law, object at rest wants to stay at rest) so it requires more force to get to move, this adds time to the dwell.
If you are sticking cases suppressed or not, 95+% of the time you are so over gassed the bolt is unlocking while the bullet is still well inside the barrel. this means the case still has lots of pressure inside expanding it to the chamber walls, the extractor jumps out of the grove due to the pressure.
An adjustable gas block would have accomplished the same thing without adding over all weight to the gun.
I have 2 or 3 with heavy buffers and yep I agree they do work. But once you under stand that it takes X amount of gas to move Y amount of buffer weight then you can adjust gas, or buffer it really is the same.
If the gun is to be suppresed and unsuppressed I perfer a gas block. if it will be run in only one configuration then buffer isn't a bad option.

 

[ole'soldier]

Yeah, my 10.5 basically stays suppressed, I never take the can off anymore. I do believe the adjustable block would have solved it but I like not having to adjust one. I have an oversized rail that the can sits halfway in to have the integral look so I was prepared for having to adjust it but I like the option I have currently.

 

[2ndamendfan]

Yeah, my 10.5 basically stays suppressed, I never take the can off anymore. I do believe the adjustable block would have solved it but I like not having to adjust one. I have an oversized rail that the can sits halfway in to have the integral look so I was prepared for having to adjust it but I like the option I have currently.

Yea getting to the gas block like that is a pain, dealing with one like that now.

 

[JWG]

Several things at work here.

1) the suppressor has significant backpressure, comparatively.
2) I am unsure what lubricant you are using?


I had a Daniel Defense that I could run all day suppressed. I don't think it would stop honestly, because it just pushed the crap out of the way of the moving parts and went on. The course ended with @1600 rounds fired, and I never added any lube or anything. I was using Wolf, as well. Now cleaning it for the sake of PM? Holy hell t hat was a mess. The crap was literally wire-brush hard baked on there. The outside of my BCG looked like a flood-swept river delta except the silt was black and hard as rock and layered on there.

How did I manage this? Well, DD overgasses the shit out of their guns, it was a 16.1" mid-length with a gasport that I pin-gauged at 0.0735". So I ran a Vltor A5 and their 7oz buffer.

With a properly gassed system this isn't necessary...it also doesn't get nearly as dirty as fast.

So that anecdote aside, what's your issue?

1, dwell time. You have a carbine system in a long barrel. Time matters. The high backpressure suppressor makes this all the worse. Crap flows backwards down the bore during unlocking, and the more pressure and more volume and more time you have for this to happen, the nastier it's going to be. Your options are: Use a suppressor with less backpressure/Change barrels/Both. Gas port size will help, but the difference won't be huge, as NOTHING is going to escape the "time" factor, even if you choke down volume some. Same with the backpressure. The suppressor is what it is. Change it or keep it.

2, lubricant. Yes, my gun runs dry just fine. That said, some don't. I have found that if you run certain lubricants they slow down far sooner than others. I like weaponshield on some guns, but on suppressed weapons it gets super super gritty. It's wet, and it's protecting against wear, but it is just gritty. ALG Go Juice on the other hand, you fire 50 rounds suppressed and charge the weapon and it still feels clean if you close your eyes and don't look at it. I don't know what lubricant you're using, but I've found ALG Go Juice and Slip 2000 and Lucas Extreme Duty Gun Oil to work very well for suppressed use. Also if you prefer grease, I've found "CherryBalmz" to do excellent. In lieu of that, my laundry-room sliding panel door is now silent, thanks to CB. So there's that. My HVAC vents also close and open soundlessly and with only the barest of pressure on that little "wheel" that is always a bitch to operate on the vents. Yes, I got bored.

Long story short, I'd start with fixing your system instead of band-aiding it. My properly gassed guns run similarly to how my Noveske Switchblock used to run, minus having to screw with the stupid SB that was always getting gummed up. I refuse to use adjustable anything, and instead opt for correctly ported barrels and low back-pressure suppressors.

Hodge Defense and Sionics and some stuff from BCM are the only one's I would buy. YMMV, opinions and all that, but they work and work great. In fact, here is a video of a Hodge gun, suppressed. It runs just fine unsuppressed, too.

Suppressors, I'm a Surefire fan, but others exist that also don't have a ton of backpressure.



***Addendum

Lube and grit from shooting suppressed can hamper feeding. You need to be sure to clean your mags well. What can happen is that after you have a day at the range or whatever, you break down the weapon and clean it, it's fine, you wipe off the mags, they're pretty, you load them up and store the weapon. Then you go to chamber a round and the BCG stops cold trying to feed a round that has "fused" with the grit and sticky crap on the inside of the mag feed-lip. Make sure to clean the inside of the mag feedlips very well!!!!

 

[JWG]

I used to use Slip 2000 and CLP (nothing wrong with them) but I really think grease (specifically calcium sulfinate) is the way to go.

The AR15/M4 is an unsealed machine that slides, no different than parts on a hay baler or a dozer that are greased.

Calcium Sulfonate is a food-grade base, high water-washout resistance, high temp, pressure, and naturally anti-corrosive (Li-base greases need additives). Plus grease seems to self-clean a sliding surface, migrating debris toward the low shear areas.

My rifle gets lubed after cleaning and not again until I clean. I’m at ~300rds now, I should run it without lubing until it fails.

EDIT: want to add, I only shoot this rifle suppressed.

I've found CherryBalmz "Black Rifle Balm" to be excellent. They have a legitimate add-pack, and the "weight" of it and tenacity of it is unique in all the greases I have used. It has the consistency of hairgel basically.

 

[JeffLebowski]

I’ll tell you I own the helix non QD in both 5.56 and 7.62. The 5.56 sits on a 12.5” LWRC upper and is hearing safe at the shooters ear. Shorter than this I wouldn’t bet on hearing safe but I can’t say. I don’t believe it unless I do it myself. Suppressing anything short in 5.56 is difficult which is why I’m stoked I’m hearing safe at 12.5”. I call hearing safe no ringing in my ears. Full disclosure, this is all I care about. I don’t give two shits about anyone else but the shooter because I am the shooter. The 7.62 is on a 16” LWRC REPR. It is most definitely hearing safe. Both guns have adjustable gas blocks and if I don’t run them on normal, aka I suppressed, with the can on mind you, hey won’t cycle. There is no backpressure. I am very impressed by both cans. Now, there have been a lot of changes to the overall design. I’ve been following them for years but never bought in until the helix cans were released. They are multi piece, therefore not quickly moved from rifle to rifle. I own about 15 cans. I don’t like having to move them if you don’t have to when you can have a dedicated can so I’m not too butthurt about the new Helix QD cans being released because I have more cans than guns now. Now that they are available though, I don’t know how anyone can justly choose another can for semi auto platform shooting. The naysayers will talk about the older cans complexity and price point etc. All that shit went right out the window with the QD helix. They are now the same QD system that everyone offers except better designed and 900 or less. The benefits of the can over baffles is undeniable. HK didn’t choose OSS for the CSASS because they are average, but because they are the best for the platform. I’m not going to go into the multitude of benefits, I’ll let you do your own research. Regarding new tech, I don’t see the design changing much now that they’ve gotten the same tech built into a QD one piece design. There will be some fine tuning I’m sure, but nothing revolutionary as revolutionary has already been accomplished. Check out the new reviews on YouTube of the helix QD system. Also, silencershop now carries OSS so I expect to see a lot more of them out on the range. PM me if you want more ear banging.

HK chose OSS because HK invested in OSS. Not because HK held an open competition for best suppressor for their CSASS entry. They simply bundled the OSS with their rifle. OSS looks like they’re finally getting their shit together, but there’s nothing wrong with baffle cans, Bin Laden was killed by an AAC equipped 416.

 

[JWG]

HK chose OSS because HK invested in OSS. Not because HK held an open competition for best suppressor for their CSASS entry. They simply bundled the OSS with their rifle. OSS looks like they’re finally getting their shit together, but there’s nothing wrong with baffle cans, Bin Laden was killed by an AAC equipped 416.

I feel the same way. At the time HK chose OSS, noone at HK wanted OSS, from what I understand, it was the same as the Nightforce NX8 getting a ZeroStop "Marketing did it..." is my thought. OSS was junk back then, IMO. Now? I'm very curious what they accomplish. My fear is all them little passages getting stopped up much faster than baffle cans fill with copper and other crap.

 

[JeffLebowski]

I feel the same way. At the time HK chose OSS, noone at HK wanted OSS, from what I understand, it was the same as the Nightforce NX8 getting a ZeroStop "Marketing did it..." is my thought. OSS was junk back then, IMO. Now? I'm very curious what they accomplish. My fear is all them little passages getting stopped up much faster than baffle cans fill with copper and other crap.

Yeah, I think you still have to clean those OSS can parts.

 

[Phineas7]

I have a PWS 14.5 that I use with an AAC SPR/M4. I bought the upper about 10 years ago when I got the suppressor. After hearing complaints about how dirty suppressors make the rifle and after hearing all the claims about how clean a piston upper is. I was pretty disappointed at the severe gas face and the mess the rifle was after shooting. I did put about 800 rounds thru it in a single day with no maintenance and no failures, but it was a mess. Since then I built a DI upper using an adjustable gas block. It's still messy but no worse than the pistol gun. The most I've shot without cleaning is about 400 rounds , but thankfully no failures.

I have no experience with other piston strategies, so maybe they are a lot better. However adding an adjustable block may help, by reducing the amount of gas sent to the chamber.

 

[2ndamendfan]

I have a PWS 14.5 that I use with an AAC SPR/M4. I bought the upper about 10 years ago when I got the suppressor. After hearing complaints about how dirty suppressors make the rifle and after hearing all the claims about how clean a piston upper is. I was pretty disappointed at the severe gas face and the mess the rifle was after shooting. I did put about 800 rounds thru it in a single day with no maintenance and no failures, but it was a mess. Since then I built a DI upper using an adjustable gas block. It's still messy but no worse than the pistol gun. The most I've shot without cleaning is about 400 rounds , but thankfully no failures.

I have no experience with other piston strategies, so maybe they are a lot better. However adding an adjustable block may help, by reducing the amount of gas sent to the chamber.

You need to read my posts (in this thread) on how the whole thing works. Your PWS put gas in your face because the timing was off with the suppressor attached. A piston set up does run cleaner without a suppressor. With a suppressor there is no difference between DI and piston, the gas in your face is from the chamber not the tiny little gas tube. The bolt opening while there is still pressure in barrel. Increased dwell time is needed. The problem can not be eliminated 100% because the suppressor traps the pressure.
The chamber is bigger than the bore and when the case is removed from the chamber it is less restrictive to vent pressure out the chamber than out of front of the suppressor. Remember the bullet is acting like a cork, while still in the suppressor.
To eliminate the problem 100% you would have to have enough dwell time to allow the pressure to drop in the suppressor. At which point there would not be enough pressure to cycle the bolt. Making the gun non-functional as a semi-auto.
I believe this would be the case even if the gun was not gas operated, such as inertia driven or blow back. Again because if you delayed operation long enough to let the pressure drop in the suppressor the recoil pulse to operate the bolt would be long gone.
Semi-Auto + suppressor = gas/carbon in the action of the gun and your face.

I will give another example.

I have an AR-57 rifle (upper on a lower I built) it is a bottom eject design and with that a AR-15 mag with the spring and follower removed makes a awesome brass catcher. Without a suppressor everything is normal. But when I install a suppressor I found something strange. When I dump the brass out all the primers have popped or been pushed out of the cases. It only happens with the suppressor on. That gun is blow back operated, no gas system. That tells me a little 22 can (rated for the hot 5.7 round) creates enough back pressure to push the primers out of the cases when the bolt opens. I could actually fix this with a stronger spring to keep the bolt closed a couple milliseconds longer, but then the gun would not function without a suppressor.

 

[Phineas7]

I had a lot of trouble with that rifle originaly because of the excessive recoil with the suppressor. It was bouncing back so hard it was having feeding issues. I changed the buffer assembly to the Vltor A5 with an H3 buffer to fix it. It probably would have helped if it had been a mid-length instead of carbine length.

It's a Mod 0 upper without the adjustable block. I ended up modifying it by adding some additional bleed off holes in the Piston tube. That got the gas face down to a bearable level. It's still not as good as the other rifle but it's okay.

As mentioned it is very reliable now after the modifications. So it is what it is.

 

[2ndamendfan]

I had a lot of trouble with that rifle originaly because of the excessive recoil with the suppressor. It was bouncing back so hard it was having feeding issues. I changed the buffer assembly to the Vltor A5 with an H3 buffer to fix it. It probably would have helped if it had been a mid-length instead of carbine length.

It's a Mod 0 upper without the adjustable block. I ended up modifying it by adding some additional bleed off holes in the Piston tube. That got the gas face down to a bearable level. It's still not as good as the other rifle but it's okay.

As mentioned it is very reliable now after the modifications. So it is what it is.

That is awesome. Good on you for figuring out a solution (as best as can be). I like to hear of shit like that for future reference.

 

[Phineas7]

That is awesome. Good on you for figuring out a solution (as best as can be). I like to hear of shit like that for future reference.

Thanks.

FWIW: It was so over-gassed, the additional bleed-offs don't appear to have had any affect on un-suppressed operation. Admittedly I've only ran a few mags thru it, just to check that the cases were landing in the same general area.

 

[dkamps]

The dirtiness of the AR suppressed is mainly due to dwell+unlock timing and pressure being inside the barrel still escaping into the receiver... also where most "gas face" comes from. Has actually very little to do with the DI aspect of the AR. Piston AR's will get just as dirty, just not in the tail portion of the bolt.

Sadly the omega has a bit more backpressure than most suppressors I'd personally recommend with the AR platform (KAC and Surefire). I have a saker 556K on my 11.5 SR15 MOD2 for now (kac can in jail), mams pinned on my 14.5.

My recommendations for you; get a Triarc 14.5 middy (the gas ports are actually the right size, much smaller than most... .064 or .068 I think), pin a normal gas block to it, and grab a LMT EBCG. The carrier in that bcg has a slightly relaxed cam path, delaying the unlocking of the bolt compared to a standard carrier, which will make the most difference. Also has an extra gas release port for some of the overgas symptoms you can encounter.

Before I ran exclusively KAC AR's... my 11.5 triarc track 2.0 w/LMT EBCG + H2 buffer had about 2.5k suppressed rounds through it before the grossness of how dirty it was overcame my sanity. It was problem free and had a perfect ejection pattern, The only time I had gas face problems was in awkward positions from a vtac with the gun on its side, stock in my bicep for ultra low face to grass prone work.