• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Double amputee shot really???

Tunanut

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 20, 2010
12
0
58
Lake Norman
by police.

Cop was cornered by disabled man, says police spokesman
HOUSTON — A Houston police officer shot and killed a one-armed, one-legged man in a wheelchair Saturday inside a group home after police say the double amputee threatened the officer and aggressively waved a metal object that turned out to be a pen.
Police spokeswoman Jodi Silva said the man cornered the officer in his wheelchair and was making threats while trying to stab the officer with the pen. At the time, the officer did not know what the metal object was that the man was waving, Silva said.
She said the man came "within inches to a foot" of the officer and did not follow instructions to calm down and remain still.
"Fearing for his partner's safety and his own safety, he discharged his weapon," Silva told The Associated Press.
Police did not immediately release the name of the man who was killed. They had been called to the home after a caretaker there called and reported that the man in wheelchair was causing a disturbance.
The owner of the group home, John Garcia, told the Houston Chronicle that the man had a history of mental illness and had been living at the house about 18 months. Garcia said the man had told him that he lost a leg above the knee and all of one arm when he was hit by a train.
"He sometimes would go off a bit, but you just ignore it," Garcia told the newspaper.
Silva identified the officer as Matthew Jacob Marin, a five-year veteran of the department. He was immediately placed on three-day administrative leave, which is standard in all shootings involving officers.
Houston police records indicate that Marin also fatally shot a suspect in 2009. Investigators at the time said Marin came upon a man stabbing his neighbor to death at an apartment complex and opened fired when the suspect refused to drop the knife.
On Saturday, Marin and his partner arrived at the group home around 2:30 a.m. Silva said there were several people at the house at the time. The caretaker who called police waited on the porch while the officers went inside, she said.
"It was close quarters in the area of the house," Silva said. "The officer was forced into an area where he had no way to get out."
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

fucking idiots. i guess someone doesn't know the escalation of force very well.

oc spray would have sufficed.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

OC spray is not the correct level of force for assault with a deadly weapon. Back to cop school 101 for spanky.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

a fit and trained police officer is "cornered" by a double amputee in a wheelchair. something is missing from the puzzle.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

One arm, one leg, confined to wheelchair. Not looking good for the hometeam. Add the 2nd application of deadly force in a 5 year career, and that the shooter was not the lead officer...oh boy...
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

<span style="font-size: 26pt"><span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">BAN ALL PENS!</span></span></span>
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

More information is needed before people start throwing stones.

The caretaker was outside because of the tight quarters in the house = Lack of a reactionary gap available to the officer.

Shiny metal object clutched in a fist and being violently slashed about. My first thought would not be a pen. Even so, I own pens I can hammer into a tree and are pointed deliberately to be used as a weapon.

What kind of wheelchair? Some of those motorized chairs are pretty fuckin quick. Combine the two above points with a motorized chair, maybe a less than ideally lighted room, and two seconds to decide whether I shoot or my partner is assaulted with an unknown object by a nut that isn't obeying commands, and I can see myself making the same call.

We don't know what the initial call was, either. Had the EDP already assaulted another person? Surely the media would include that information rather than jump on a juicy headline, right? The media IS always unbiased and ethical, isn't it?

Or we can continue to make ignorant comments, since everyone with an Internet connection feels like they know enough about what we do to call someone a fucking idiot based on a half assed initial media report. Keep showing your ass there, buddy.

I do promise that this couple will catch shit forever from fellow officers, good natured or otherwise.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

And where does it say anything about a lead officer? I haven't seen that in any of the articles I've read.

In my experience, unless it was a two man unit, which it may have been, there isn't always a conversation about who's in charge when you are running into a shitstorm. You just trust your backup to do what has to be done, which may be shooting a cripple that's trying to stab me in the dick with a pointed object.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

Does not add up.

Trapped by a wheel-chair bound person, and can't see what he is holding in his one and only hand?
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wes126</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And where does it say anything about a lead officer? I haven't seen that in any of the articles I've read.

In my experience, unless it was a two man unit, which it may have been, there isn't always a conversation about who's in charge when you are running into a shitstorm. You just trust your backup to do what has to be done, which may be shooting a cripple that's trying to stab me in the dick with a pointed object. </div></div>

From the article;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Fearing for his partner's safety and his own safety, he discharged his weapon," Silva told The Associated Press.</div></div>
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wes126</div><div class="ubbcode-body">More information is needed before people start throwing stones.



Or we can continue to make ignorant comments, since everyone with an Internet connection feels like they know enough about what we do to call someone a fucking idiot based on a half assed initial media report. Keep showing your ass there, buddy.



I do promise that this couple will catch shit forever from fellow officers, good natured or otherwise.</div></div>

So what am I intuiting from this? I think I'd be hard pressed to defend shooting a one-armed, one-legged man in a wheelchair, even if he were close to me and armed with a contact weapon.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

That says partner, not lead officer. Partner could mean they were a two man car, or it could mean your coworker on scene, which is how I use it. That term could come from a the police report or could come from whoever wrote the article.

Being hard pressed to defend yourself against a cripple is a personal choice. Defending your partner is not.

That aside, I have no intention of being permanently maimed by a pen just because the guy holding it is seated and is using a one handed grip. Would you feel differently if it were phrased that way and the man's physical limitations were not emphasized? If I was assured a puncture wound was all that would be sustained, I might even risk my partner taking it, while I try and take it from the man. However, a shank is a shank, whether it has a sharpened edge or not. Daggers, sword canes, boyonets, and fencing swords are not considered less lethal, but have all been used with a sharp end and no cutting edge effectively. Even if the dude can't get up, if he had me pinned in a corner, however that happened, I can think of one very important piece of my anatomy I would shoot him to keep from being ripped open.

Texas Penal Code, Chapter 9, where justifiable force is outlined, states, from the top of my head, that --- any force necessary, but no more, including lethal force, is justified in order to prevent serious bodily injury or death to yourself or a third person. Grand jury will determine whether he could have reasonably stopped the threat with lesser force, but the serious bodily injury will be a cakewalk to defend. It won't matter that it was a pen or a switchblade. Put one picture of a ripped open nutsack on screen and that issue will be settled.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

The police spokesman said that it was close quarters and the officer had been pushed into an area he had no way out of.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

What happened to training with night sticks or hand to hand. If one of those cops had a brain and used it he could have stopped the attacker without shooting him, hell just kick and push the wheelchair would throw him off balance and maybe tip him over. With stuff like this going it's no wonder more and more people have a negative attitude against leo's.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

Forget that a police officer was the shooter and ask yourself this question. If the shooter was a CCW and the "victim/target" was a one armed, one legged man in a wheelchair what would everyone have to say?
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

Here is what the problem is:

The police may very well have had no choice but to shoot him or risk serious injury because of poor tactics and no planning on behalf of the city / police department.

Mentally disturbed and Mentally handicaped people can be dangerous to others & to themselves, but if all you bring is a gun, your hands and some strong words, chances are you may very well have to use the gun.

Now think for just a bit about what you would do if you were told that a mentally unstable person who was not armed with any significant weapons was in a house, could be physically violent and you:

a. Did not have guns
b. Would wind up loosing you job if someone got killed
c. Needed to resolve the issue, as it was your job to do so.
d. Had a bit of time to plan or had already worked out a plan
e. Understood a bit about mental illness and that the person may not respond as normal rational humans do, but may respond on a much more basic animal fight or flight response.

Trying to physically grab a mentally challenged person or rush / corner one with no plan is usually a very bad idea, much in the same way trying to grab a wild animal or a strange dog is.

In many of these events (Including this one it seems) it is no surprise that the person is mentally challenged as the person who called for police assistance said so (or should have said so) and there is nothing that demands immediate action that can't wait a bit for a plan / backup / team with the right tools
Or better yet the 911 operaters should be able to pass that information along as an important part of the situation details so the correct team can be sent.

With a bit of planning and thought ahead of time, there are tons of companies very happy to sell all kinds of devices just for that situation and you have a team setup that gets called if needed, or train your local swat team on how to do it. (Or make your own in a hurry with a quick visit to your local hardware store / supermarket / fire station / animal control office etc.)

Just like how riot police are trained (in countries that are not brutal dictatorships) how to handle dangerous mobs who are violent and plan to hurt people / property, with dedicated non-lethal equipment instead of just pulling out the machine guns.

Or like what you would have to plan to do if you were the specialist brought in to remove a Federally protected endangered animal that liked the taste of you for dinner, from a house to relocate them back to their habitat.

These are the things happen way more often than many other situations that cities spend tons of time and money preparing for even if the other events probably will never happen.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

How many of you so ready to criticize have ever been a respondent to a 911 call? Or shot someone? None, would be my guess.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

Is a 911 call anything like a "react" while on the QRF in a combat zone? I bet nobody here other than an LEO has EVER faced a life threatening situation where you have to think before you pull the trigger...
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

Let me give y'all a different perspective. I AM a one legged, one armed man. My wheelchair clocks 15mph and I guarantee if I got you with the foot plate it would break bones. While my trunk strength is not great, my right arm is fully functional and stronger than your average fit male. I can hold a knife and control my chair at the same time. I can also draw and fire my CCW 1911 faster and more accurately than most of my police friends.

While the report sounds terrible, and most likely the officer will lose his job and be sued in civil court don't jump to conclusions. The officer would not be able to kick or push the chair away and could easily trapped.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wes126</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many of you so ready to criticize have ever been a respondent to a 911 call? Or shot someone? None, would be my guess. </div></div>

I have been on tons of mental illness calls in my line of work probably more than most law enforcement officers, these people are usually a bigger threat to themselves than anyone else do some get very upset, yes.... do the kick and swing and fight us on occasion absolutely, I'm sorry but under no fuckin time in the fire service was the answer "shoot him."

If two guys can't handle a guy with a pen, a guy with one arm and one fucking leg no less... Get a new god damn job
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

ANGLICO, you hadn't chimed in second guessing. My comment was directed at the ones quick to second guess and criticize. I would guess that you've seen the fallout of a misinformed third party inserting their uninformed opinion into a shooting inquiry.

Jw, thank you for a personal experience and fact based opion in the midst of a cloud of white noise.

Mendy, I've done your job full time, have you done mine? Remember the guys with guns that show up to the dangerous emotional disturbed person calls and then radio that the scene is secure so y'all can come in? That's us
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

Sometimes we wait, sometimes this type of thing unfolds with us sitting right there... Im always on the side of LEOs we work right next to each other but at what point do you just say, "yeah that guy fucked up."

I have fucked up good plenty of times, just own it... Don't give me the get out of jail free "I was in fear for my life" bullshit answer that he gave

This man was a PT in a group home with a caretaker, she had most likely delt with him acting out plenty of times, I would bet anything that when that gun went off she was wondering what in the fuck just happened
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

You say "yeah, that guy fucked up" when you have more information than is being disseminated right now, at least, or ideally, when he is convicted of wrong doing by a jury of his peers.

This man WAS a PT in a home with a caretaker, who SAID he gets out of line sometimes, and it's best just to ignore. So how much worse was it this time that the caretaker, or whoever, had to call law enforcement? Also, the three reports I've read stated that the caretaker was outside due to a lack of available space it the room. If there isn't room for a familiar and, maybe, calming person to stand, how much room do you think there was to react?

And I'm SURE she was sitting outside wondering what the fuck just happened. :)

I apologize if I came off as impugning you our your profession. I've done the FF/EMT prior to LE, and know sometimes you get stuck with guys that need cuffs, due to circumstances.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

In an LE shooting, for those that don't know, no more information is released than is necessary. This is not to blind the public; even the embarrassing or incriminating parts come out eventually. This is to protect the integrity of the grand jury hearing (for the most part), which is a part of every LE shooting. Basically, the DA presents the facts of the shooting to a smaller jury, of no less that here and no more than five, and they determine whether or not there is sufficient evidence of wrongdoing to go to criminal trial.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jwSubMOA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let me give y'all a different perspective. I AM a one legged, one armed man. My wheelchair clocks 15mph and I guarantee if I got you with the foot plate it would break bones. While my trunk strength is not great, my right arm is fully functional and stronger than your average fit male. I can hold a knife and control my chair at the same time. I can also draw and fire my CCW 1911 faster and more accurately than most of my police friends.

While the report sounds terrible, and most likely the officer will lose his job and be sued in civil court don't jump to conclusions. The officer would not be able to kick or push the chair away and could easily trapped.
</div></div>

I would think the commentary from this man would have impacted this discussion more than it has.

The truth about a great number of law enforcment involved shootings is they are quite often a very surreal situation. They seldom match the scenes we see portrayed on the big screen.

I can also say from my experience that the newspapers and tv stations seldom present an honest, accurate and unbiased report on any event invovling law enforcement. They are given a limited amount of information, often from someone who wasn't there.

Hence we get second hand information presented in a way to sensationalize the story, (though this story certainly needs little help in that regard), which in turn increases viewership or readership as the case may be.

As JW eloquently pointed out, just because the man was bound to a wheel chair and had only one arm does not make him incapable of causing serious bodily injury or death.

When I read a story like this I usually come away with no judgment one way or the other. I wasn't there and I am sure I don't have all of the information such a judgment deserves.

The outcome in this case is certainly undesirable. Why not assume the policemen involved found it so also unless it is proven otherwise?
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

I wouldn't go pointing fingers at the officer. I know I wouldn't want to get stabbed.

The media reports the news its up to us to have the intelligence to not jump to conclusions and start cop bashing.

You get yourself backed in a corner by a 300 lb wheelchair with someone trying to stab you and see how comfortable you are.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

I think very few jurors would buy your argument.

And let's put it in perspective. George Zimmerman gets his head repeatedly bashed into a concrete sidewalk, shoots and gets a 2nd degree murder charge.

What injuries did this cop receive?

Will the jury think a pen in the one armed man's hand is a deadly weapon?

Looks like prison time for Mr. Popo.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wes126</div><div class="ubbcode-body">More information is needed before people start throwing stones.

The caretaker was outside because of the tight quarters in the house = Lack of a reactionary gap available to the officer.

Shiny metal object clutched in a fist and being violently slashed about. My first thought would not be a pen. Even so, I own pens I can hammer into a tree and are pointed deliberately to be used as a weapon.

What kind of wheelchair? Some of those motorized chairs are pretty fuckin quick. Combine the two above points with a motorized chair, maybe a less than ideally lighted room, and two seconds to decide whether I shoot or my partner is assaulted with an unknown object by a nut that isn't obeying commands, and I can see myself making the same call.

We don't know what the initial call was, either. Had the EDP already assaulted another person? Surely the media would include that information rather than jump on a juicy headline, right? The media IS always unbiased and ethical, isn't it?

Or we can continue to make ignorant comments, since everyone with an Internet connection feels like they know enough about what we do to call someone a fucking idiot based on a half assed initial media report. Keep showing your ass there, buddy.

I do promise that this couple will catch shit forever from fellow officers, good natured or otherwise. </div></div>
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

Wow another post second guessing the actions of someone in shoot or not shoot situation. So pumped to listen to a bunch of people who have never taken another persons life, or even been in a situation where deadly force is warranted talk about what they would have done.

I hope you all get your chance so that these "idiots" that do it everyday can stop shooting all these innocent people. I'm sure you would all do it so much better with all of your internet knowledge.

If anyone wants to come over I'll sit in a wheel chair with my arm and leg tied down and see how you fair against me and a pen. You don't get a gun though, just your hand to hand tactics, I'll put money on you ending up bloody.

Sure do hope I don't have hep C or HIV. Hard to explain to your wife that while you were utilizing all of your sweet hand to hand badass moves on a pen stabbing one armed one legged guy his blood got all in your stab wounds. Or maybe the pen that you got stabbed with while you were trying to run by and avoid the situation in this cramped room had some methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus bacteria on it. Now for some reason your body can't handle this infection and you die.

Man it sure would have been nice if your back up would have taken that shot and saved your life wouldn't it?

I don't know what happened so I don't get on a soap box and act like the almighty. Maybe some of you should do the same.

Also bringing in the Zimmerman case into this is ridiculous, apples and oranges.

PS: I'm not a COP
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

There is so much drama here because.......THERE IS NO PERFECT ANSWER!!!!! Both sides can be made to sound good or bad. The way you word things makes the difference on a fucking internet forum. Some of you guys defend the amputee and some defend the cop. How bout everyone waits till the whole story comes out and when we know the truth then let the bullshit fly. Until then, all this is bullshit. pretty much everyone so far that has spoken is just talking bullshit. Really, give me a break. Let's talk rifles, marksmanship and naked women. Isn't that what this site is about anyway?
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

ANYONE can say, "This should happen" or "That was wrong" or "Why didn't they (add some imaginary cluster fuck here)". To those who say they would have done something different or think they know how it should have been handled differently let me say this...YOU HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE HOW IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN HANDLED, WHAT HAPPENED, OR WHAT THE FUCK YOU WOULD HAVE DONE. IT HAPPENED HOW IT HAPPENED.

Regardless of right or wrong, a man is dead and an officer is going through HELL.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think very few jurors would buy your argument.

And let's put it in perspective. George Zimmerman gets his head repeatedly bashed into a concrete sidewalk, shoots and gets a 2nd degree murder charge.

What injuries did this cop receive?

Will the jury think a pen in the one armed man's hand is a deadly weapon?

Looks like prison time for Mr. Popo.






<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wes126</div><div class="ubbcode-body">More information is needed before people start throwing stones.

The caretaker was outside because of the tight quarters in the house = Lack of a reactionary gap available to the officer.

Shiny metal object clutched in a fist and being violently slashed about. My first thought would not be a pen. Even so, I own pens I can hammer into a tree and are pointed deliberately to be used as a weapon.

What kind of wheelchair? Some of those motorized chairs are pretty fuckin quick. Combine the two above points with a motorized chair, maybe a less than ideally lighted room, and two seconds to decide whether I shoot or my partner is assaulted with an unknown object by a nut that isn't obeying commands, and I can see myself making the same call.

We don't know what the initial call was, either. Had the EDP already assaulted another person? Surely the media would include that information rather than jump on a juicy headline, right? The media IS always unbiased and ethical, isn't it?

Or we can continue to make ignorant comments, since everyone with an Internet connection feels like they know enough about what we do to call someone a fucking idiot based on a half assed initial media report. Keep showing your ass there, buddy.

I do promise that this couple will catch shit forever from fellow officers, good natured or otherwise. </div></div> </div></div>

George Zimmerman, right or wrong, was also convicted before he has been tried by the media and everyone who took the first thing the media said and ran with it. Trevon Martin was black and Zimmerman is close enough to white to sensationalize the race issue.

In this instance, the dead guy is handicapped and the shooter is a cop. Also sensational, but hey, the news reporters want to see justice done more than high ratings, so surely they didn't embellish anything or leave anything out.

If you haven't been to a grand jury hearing, served on the jury of one, graduated law school, or stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, you're just making noise anyway.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

The cop needs a medal! One of the few forces adding bleach to the gene pool.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

The lesson here is real simple yet it's not surprising that the usual suspects don't get it.

Don't threaten to stab the police with sharp objects and you won't get shot.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The lesson here is real simple yet it's not surprising that the usual suspects don't get it.

Don't threaten to stab the police with sharp objects and you won't get shot. </div></div>

Wait, I need to write that down...

Maybe that should be on a bracelet or something like one of those MedAlert bracelets! You know, in case one forgets not to try to kill or maim a police officer; They can look at their bracelet first.

If they can remember to...

Hmmm...

I think this might need more, like a telethon or a recurring series of powerful 5 second commercial spots with our favorite stars of NBC and MTV television dramas.

They are really moving!
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

I'd like to see one of those old school public service announcements (PSAs) on the subject.

Chris Rock did a good piece on the matter but I like the retro/nostalgic feeling of the PSAs.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Pfkrw57VnAU"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Pfkrw57VnAU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

Fear the man with only one arm. He probably knows how to use it. My only question is why wasn't there 2 officers firing at him?

Could they have handled the situation differently? Most certainly. Problem is, Stabby didn't afford them the opportunity to try a different strategy.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

The best part about some of the comments on here is it quickly went from "a guy in a wheelchair" to "wheel chair bound". Yet the smae people who misquoted the original 'story' are the ones trusting what the media gets from a police report. It's a crappy situation but a stab from a one armed man or a gunshot kill just the same. That's why people who use someone's outward appearence as a basis for determining their threat level are far worse off then the people who treat everyone as a potential threat. Prime example, a guy sitting in a wheelchair isn't always wheelchair bound. Any one in law enforcement or military and deployed could tell you that. It's imperfect situation in an imperfect world. As much as we all agree the media is biased, we are sure quick to take their word as gospel when it comes to an LE shooting. I'm willing to bet some guys on here would be singing a different tune if it was a CCW shooting. I don't disagree or agree with the shooting, I don't know all the facts. I'm just pointing out how dumb some of the arguements are on here, it's easy to pass judgement reading an article and not be there is the seconds it all went down.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

Do you fuckwits even realize that youre doing exactly the same shit you castigated the media over in the travon martin bs?

If you're so fucking against authority, and think the police are so fucking bad, move your ass to some place you like better, or better yet, get the fuck up off your ass and effect some fucking change.

You moaning fucking cock suckers make me want to vomit.


P.S. if you're unsure if this was directed at you, it probably wasn't. If you feel indignation upon reading this, it was definitely directed at you.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

I don't give a shit if you've got no arms or legs with a pen clutched in your teeth trying to stab me, you're gonna get shot.

Moving the fuck along now...
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoltOveride</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you fuckwits even realize that youre doing exactly the same shit you castigated the media over in the travon martin bs?

If you're so fucking against authority, and think the police are so fucking bad, move your ass to some place you like better, or better yet, get the fuck up off your ass and effect some fucking change.

You moaning fucking cock suckers make me want to vomit.


P.S. if you're unsure if this was directed at you, it probably wasn't. If you feel indignation upon reading this, it was definitely directed at you. </div></div>


1.Exercise common sense and be considerate toward your fellow users. Diversity of opinion and intelligent civil discourse is encouraged; by the same token, Personal attacks, rudeness, flaming, baiting, insults to others, or arguments will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully.

PS: This is definitely directed at you.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

Shut the fuck up. I'm tired of the New topics being ruined by childs play. Back to rifles and marksmanship
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

I don't have an issue with the shooting. You attack an obviously armed man you reap your reward accordingly. I'm wondering if it WAS a CCW shooting would the police be as sympathetic to the civilian as they seem to be to their brethren?

One can only hope Boone doesn't get a beat down and jail time for doing the same as the officers.
 
Re: Double amputee shot really???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wes126</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That says partner, not lead officer. Partner could mean they were a two man car, or it could mean your coworker on scene, which is how I use it. That term could come from a the police report or could come from whoever wrote the article.

Being hard pressed to defend yourself against a cripple is a personal choice. Defending your partner is not.

That aside, I have no intention of being permanently maimed by a pen just because the guy holding it is seated and is using a one handed grip. Would you feel differently if it were phrased that way and the man's physical limitations were not emphasized? If I was assured a puncture wound was all that would be sustained, I might even risk my partner taking it, while I try and take it from the man. However, a shank is a shank, whether it has a sharpened edge or not. Daggers, sword canes, boyonets, and fencing swords are not considered less lethal, but have all been used with a sharp end and no cutting edge effectively. Even if the dude can't get up, if he had me pinned in a corner, however that happened, I can think of one very important piece of my anatomy I would shoot him to keep from being ripped open.

Texas Penal Code, Chapter 9, where justifiable force is outlined, states, from the top of my head, that --- any force necessary, but no more, including lethal force, is justified in order to prevent serious bodily injury or death to yourself or a third person. Grand jury will determine whether he could have reasonably stopped the threat with lesser force, but the serious bodily injury will be a cakewalk to defend. It won't matter that it was a pen or a switchblade. Put one picture of a ripped open nutsack on screen and that issue will be settled. </div></div>

agreed, If I took my nice Zebra 701 stainless steel pen and waived it around fast enough it would certainly appear to be as a lethal cutting instrument. ( I understand we are talking about a pen here) There is a reaon why we never gave inmates hard bodied pens in jail/prison settings, one time inmate got ahold of one and stabbed a guy in the neck. Pens not leathal, bullshit...

take a look at this http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/907609-Reevaluating-Tactical-Pen-Tactics