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DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

D

disdp1

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 18, 2012
22
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63
Green Bay, WI
Hey guys, I've put a ton of time on the range running IMR4064, Varget and H4895 through the rifle. First 200 rounds were 165gr Ballist tips and just finished running 180/178gr SST & AMAX through the rifle w/ H4895 exclusively due to groups from the 165gr bullets. I'm at 1.1 MOA with this rifle which has a 24" bull/fluted barrel and 1/10 twist. I have 8" groups at 570yds. I pushed up to 2725fps but it was punishing the rifle and I had primer flatten pressure issues. The 8" group was at 41grns of H4895 shooting 2575fps. I don't have groups that are more than 1.1MOA so that resolves shooter inconsistency. The SST for the most part are dead center but the Amax is usually .2Mil to the right. I haven't tried RL15 as of yet. The Varget and IMR4064 give me unperdictable groups that are far more than 1MOA.

The goal is to be 1/2 MOA at all distances. Any ideas on why the groups aren't better? Any help w/ would be greatly appreciated.
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

What is your shooting setup? Bipod? Rear bag?

Tell more about the rifle. What trigger? Scope? Free floated barrel?

What kind of brass and dies are you using!
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave_GB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have groups that are more than 1.1MOA so that resolves shooter inconsistency. </div></div>

Interesting claim, I don't agree. What have you gotten with other rifles?

You said you shot 8" at 570yds, what is she doing a little closer in?

And too oftenlooked, what optic are we talking here?
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave_GB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have groups that are more than 1.1MOA so that resolves shooter inconsistency. </div></div>

Interesting claim, I don't agree. What have you gotten with other rifles?

You said you shot 8" at 570yds, what is she doing a little closer in?

And too oftenlooked, what optic are we talking here?</div></div>

+1, I'd only add, from what you've said, you could have a multitude of problems: the rifle, ammunition, and marksmanship are all suspect. Single load the rifle shot to shot with GMM topped off with the 168 grain bullet, unless you are shooting at distances greater than 600 yards, and this should isolate your errors to those coming from the arena of shooter consistency and/or not correctly countering for trajectory or the effects on trajectory. My bet is you have come to believe that with just the scope's resolution and the seemingly solid support of the bipod you should be able to get good hits, but, when things fall apart at distance it's usually a sign that the scope and bipod were serving as substitutes for underdeveloped basic marksmanship, or for no comprehension of marksmanship at all.
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

Some interesting comments on the thread you linked to, but there's also some clear-cut misinformation on there as well. You're 1x10" twist will handle anything up to and including some of the 220 grain offerings with no problem at all. Several posters on both this thread and the one you linked to recommended the 175s, and that's an excellent choice fro what you're after here. The bullets will do it, and the loads are certainly proven, but how about the rifle itself? What make is the barrel? Bore and groove? And have you verified the twist? Buttoned barrels can (and routinely do) vary by +/- a half inch or so from their stated twist. In otherwords, the barrel may be anything from a 1x9.5" to a 1x 10.5". This may, or may not make a difference, depending on how close you are to the edge of stability, but I'm guessing you're fine in this regard. The real point I'm getting at, is that you're looking for consistent 1/2 MOA accuracy, and the system itself needs to be capable of doing this. Verify the system first, before getting too wrapped up in load development. Once you know the system is capable, THEN you can worry about refining a better load. I'd suggest starting with FGMM or something equvalent to check the rifle/barrel, just to make sure.
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

Alright, I want to thank each of you who replied!

I agree, there's alot more to the story that needs to be told. I am firing from a Harris 9" bipod and supported in the rear off the pistol grip, still holding the rifle tight by the front fore tube (free floating). The trigger is a JP trigger measured at 3.85lb pull with approximately 1/8" creep. Each round is loaded an shot individually from mag. My groups are 5 shot groups. The rifle is sighted in for 300yards and I have a Vortex PST 6x24x50 on the rifle. The majority of brass I'm using is mil Twin City 68. Dies are Hornady. I have not gotten to specing out and seperating brass. The bullet length is 2.80 which is mag length dependant.

I've recorded every shot and of the 300 rounds I've put on target, only 5 were misses due to high winds during a particular day. My daughter did a 4 round group at 139yrds that's 1.5"s. That's what I was getting w/ the 165nosler BT rounds at that range. Pretty good for her since that was her 5th thru 8th shots she had ever shot out of a high power. They were the AMAX and were 2"s right and high of the center.

Short of putting the rifle in a vise, the marksman ship issue is null. Expert every year in the army and like I said, 90% of the 3/5 round groups out of the 300 rounds shot were 1.1 to 1.2 MOA at all ranges from 100 to 570 which is the max of the range I'm using.

I"m going to run down to Scheels tomorrow after work to pick up some RL15 and Hornady 200 grn SST's. One other thing, I"m setting this up for deer not target competition. I will not shoot bullets that are not recommended for hunting and right now I'm limiting that to Nosler Ballistic/Accubonds or Hornady SST & Amax bullets. I know there's other good hunting bullets out there but these are the ones I'm working with.

Kevin, I'd like to follow your line of thought but for time's sake regarding this post I'm not able to spec out the barrel. Very good points and I will consider going down that road!

Thanks ahead for any input.
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

i have that same set up. I shoot it in our local varmint matches. I load mine with 43.5gr of IMR 8208 2.79. I havent shot it past 300 yards yet due to time to get out to the range. @ 100 yards my avg group is .75 and best being .33. I use a RRA 2 stage trigger. I have a caldwell rock BR front rest.

I used varget and RL-15 but the 8208 just seem to work better. My scope is a mueller 8-32X44. I broke my barrel in by shooting and cleaning for the first 25 rounds. then did 3 shot group for the next 75 rounds cleaning after each group and allowing the barrel to completely cool down before the next group. After the first 100 rounds I started 5 shot group while testing different loads. I used this same process in my F class rifles as well.
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

Out of your 5 shot groups does there seem to be any consistency? As in, are there 3 touching and then the other 2 open it up? Or are all 5 shots all over the place?

Do you have your parallax set right on the scope?

When you say single loading, I'm assuming you load one, fire, drop mag, load, fire... You might be getting behind the rifle different every time. Have you tried loading 5 in the mag and firing them without changing your shooting position/cheek weld? I find that on my semis I shoot better groups when I stay behind the rifle. Stopping, changing cheek weld, etc. always seems to open my groups up
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kvwpwr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Out of your 5 shot groups does there seem to be any consistency? As in, are there 3 touching and then the other 2 open it up? Or are all 5 shots all over the place?

Do you have your parallax set right on the scope?

When you say single loading, I'm assuming you load one, fire, drop mag, load, fire... You might be getting behind the rifle different every time. Have you tried loading 5 in the mag and firing them without changing your shooting position/cheek weld? I find that on my semis I shoot better groups when I stay behind the rifle. Stopping, changing cheek weld, etc. always seems to open my groups up </div></div>

i would love to have a single shot follower for mine, but i have yet to find one, or even know of anyone that makes one.
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

Dpms sells what the call the "bobsled." It is effectively a dummy mag that allows for single feeding, sold for competition, bench rest, or varmint shooting. However, for my money, I don't see why I can't just use an empty mag and drop rounds in through the ejection port.

Are you able to shoot better than 1.1 moa with other AR pattern rifles that you own or have shot? Consistently shooting ~1 moa does not eliminate the shooter from the equation. It could just be pointing to the limitation of the shooter. I'm not trying to be an ass, just pointing out a logical fallacy.
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

My LR308 has a a 24" SS fluted barrel (1/10twist) with JP compensator, JP trigger, harris bipod, rear monopod and Millett LRS Scope. my best so far is .5 moa at 100 yrd with 41.5gr H4895 168gr Match Kings, federal brass, federal match primers. last week i had a 10 round 10" group with these at 810 yard. I tried this same load with Hornady's 168 BTHP but grouped a hair outside 1 moa at 100yds. I

one last thought, reading the pamphlet that came with the rifle, DPMS only guarantees 1/8 to 1 1/2 Moa.
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

Thanks guys for your input. Always fun to talk the talk. Just came off the range this evening. Ran some IMR4895 41.8 grns w/ 180 grn Hornady AMAX and SST rounds. Had a 10mph FV wind that really made the AMAX spread and drift. The SST's at 41.5 grns gave me a 3 round group at 300 of 1.5"s. I then pushed the target out to 497 yards and had to compensate for the additional velocity after the first group that was .3 mils higher elevation than I had recorded at 40.5. The next 5 shot group ended up at 5"s all in a straight line. So, 1MOA at 500 and .5MOA at 300. Pretty sure I found the load I've been looking for. The sysnopsis is I had to move up from the 165 grn bullet to the 180 grn in a SST configuration running IMR4895. Again I had tried Varget and IMR4064 but did not try RL15.

Truely surprised that AMAX rounds always pushed on average .3 Mils low and right.

As an FYI, the hold over at 500 is 2 mils and that's on center with this load.

Hope someone can benefit from this discussion.
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

All,

Here's an experiment for any who fret over their rifle or ammunition. Form the bench with a sandbag support and non firing hand on the handguard shoot a 5 shot string, moving the left elbow on the bench about an inch in any direction from where it was planted from the previous shot. This should make it clear to anyone that hitting exactly where aimed is mostly about making the position consistent shot to shot, and not about the rifle or ammunition.

Davd,

Regarding the AMAX bullet, why be surprised?
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

Sterling, had to laugh at the surpise question. It definitly can be a struggle pouring money out the barrel to find what works. I now have 150amax, 180ballistic tips sitting on the bench and a # of varget. I need to see what the varget does w/ the heavier bullets.

As for shooting position, I concur that trying to achieve accurracy, you have to put your best into each and every shot.

I hear the jets over lambeau, time for the game. Again, thank you all for input.
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave_GB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sterling, had to laugh at the surpise question. It definitly can be a struggle pouring money out the barrel to find what works. I now have 150amax, 180ballistic tips sitting on the bench and a # of varget. I need to see what the varget does w/ the heavier bullets.

As for shooting position, I concur that trying to achieve accurracy, you have to put your best into each and every shot.

I hear the jets over lambeau, time for the game. Again, thank you all for input.</div></div>

The reason your AMAX bullets always hit in a group .3mils low and right has to do with a concept called recoil resistance. Since it is consistent you can zero for it.
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

I'm actually with Sterling on this...I dont understand your concern w POI change between bullets. Different profiles, different weights cause different flight....and thats not even concidering what you're doin behind the rifle. Pick the one that groups best and adjust zero to it. IMO, throw the light bullets away and concentrate on the 175+. I've never seen a decent 10 twist barrel that wouldn't shoot 178 Amax's effectively.

okie
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

I have the same rifle, trigger, and scope setup. I also have a JP adjustable gas block tuned so that the BCG will just lock back on an empty magazine. My rifle from the factory was severely overgassed. Shooting from a bipod and rear bag I've worked up two loads that have produced .5 MOA accuracy. Did you do an OCW or ladder test as part of your load development?

Federal Gold Match Clone
LC Brass trimmed to 2.005
Win LR primer
IMR-4895 41.3gr
Nosler 168gr HPBT
OAl = 2.802

LC Brass trimmed to 2.005
Win LR primer
Varget 43.5gr
Nosler 175gr HPBT
OAl = 2.802


DPMS factory barrels can be a crap shoot. I got lucky and got an outstanding one, perhaps you did not. I'd start with Federal Gold match to determine the accuracy potential of the rifle and shooter. FGM "should" yield good accuracy results under 1MOA.
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

I have the same rifle. It took me a good 300 rounds before my rifle could shoot under 1 moa. I was very unhappy with the rifle when I first got it. I read many posts regarding this rifle and gave it time and myself time to work the rifle correctly. Now it will consistently shoot under 1 moa. I am the issues when outside of 1 moa. I correctly broke the barrel in but it need some rounds down the tube to really season the barrel. Now I love the rifle. I have made all the normal changes, trigger, but stock, pistol grip etc. Give her time. I only shoot FGMM, I am now experimenting with reloading now.
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

I went through a lot of powders getting my DPMS to shoot and settled on RL15 and Federal primers.
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

2aams13.jpg


DPMS LR-308 1-10 24'' SS fluted, JP trigger, comp, bipod

300 yards with BVAC match 168gr HPBT
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

I also have a DPMS LR-308 with the 24" SS barrel 1:10 twist. Mine has a RRA NM 2 stage trigger in it (The stock one was complete crap). I haven't reloaded for mine, but what I did find is these barrels either like lighter and faster or faster with the heavier rounds. My rifle doesn't like 168 Federal Gold or similiar loads (HMS ammo etc). But... when I shot 167 Lapua it shot extremely well. That ammo is listed as 200 fps faster than Federal Gold. Something to consider.

Oh and the barrel I recall is a Wilson for the DPMS.
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

I found my LR308 needs to be held VERY firmly to get the best accuracy, as in crushing it into my shoulder. Shrunk my groups from 1.5-2" to sub moa. LC brass, CCI BR primer, 41.5 grains IMR 4895 and a 168 SMK.
 
Re: DPMS LR-308 Accuracy (Reloading)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gainer_reniag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
2aams13.jpg


DPMS LR-308 1-10 24'' SS fluted, JP trigger, comp, bipod

300 yards with BVAC match 168gr HPBT</div></div>

Folks, this is what someone who knows what's important to good shooting can expect. What amuses me are others here who don't know the first two things about good shooting yet don't think they have any problem with marksmanship, perhaps since they can get good groups at SR or they qualified expert in the service. These folks just don't know that they don't know, and, there's no way to persuade them that tweaking the rifle or ammunition is not the answer. I don't believe these folks are stupid but their mindset appears to have been cast. So, if you're one of the folks who is not getting the job done but will not take a second look into basic marksmanship, remember the group gainer posted here because you for sure are not going to ever produce one such as his.
 
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