Dud primer question

[TenZero]

First, let me say I've only been reloading for less than a year. Last weekend I had a dud primer in my .223 AR. Load was Winchester brass with careful prep.
77 SMK
22.5 g Varget
Federal GM match primer.

I loaded 200 of these, and they all shot very well, except one that did not go bang. There was a very good strike, and the gun eats everything else I feed it, so I'm puzzled.
My question is this; is this just something that happens once in a while, and I should expect it? Or is there something I may have done or need to be more aware of to prevent it? Any constructive advice would be appreciated.

 

[1lnbrdg]

Re: Dud primer question

It happens.

I've seen it more regular with the harder primers lately (Tula). People do not seat them deep enough and then the firing pin does more seating than impacting the priming mix against against the anvil of the primer which looks like a light hammer strike.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: Dud primer question

I think it is more likely that you might have contaminated the primer somehow? No, you would not expect one out of 200 to be a dud. I have never had a dud although I know it is theoretically possible. I know that you want to believe that you do everything perfectly but with only a years worth of experience, the odds are that it won't be a bad primer or a rifle problem, it is likely something you did in seating or contamination, something like that?

Good luck. BB

 

[TenZero]

Re: Dud primer question

BB, with my limited experience, I'm pretty sure I'm not doing everything perfectly, and I recognize that I have a lot to learn. That said, I am fairly meticulous and detail oriented in my process. I'm actually hoping it's something I did, so I can be aware of it and correct it for it in future. I'm scratching my head to try and figure out what I might have done to contaminate the primer though. I tumbled the cases again after I was finished prepping them, to remove any case lube and brass shavings. I also verified that the flash holes were clear of tumbling media, (made that mistake once) Is there some way I could have damaged the primer during the priming operation? From the outside it appears to be seated correctly. I have not yet deconstructed the round to see how it looks on the inside.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Dud primer question

Could be missing the anvil or the priming compound. I've seen that happen also. I know you said you checked the flash holes, but one could have slipped past. JMHO

 

[MtnCreek]

Re: Dud primer question

You may want to hit it again. If it goes bang on the second strike, it probably wasn't seated all the way.

If you can smack it all day and it won’t go off, there's something else going on. Bad primer, primer damaged while seating (smashed), contaminated, way oversized flashhole, …… Or … it could be the rifle.

 

[TenZero]

Re: Dud primer question

UPDATE: Ok, pulled down the round, and verrry carefully decapped the case. The Fed SR match primer was ...an empty shell. Just a cup and an anvil. Bare shiny metal, no primer compound in there at all. On one hand, I'm relieved that I didn't screw up somehow, but on the other hand, I am now less confident in my "match quality" components. Has anyone else seen this before?

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: Dud primer question

Primers are manufactured by the millions, a bad primer is a rare thing, so if you accept that the odds are remote, you need to look at other possibilities. If it was the rifle and you have been shooting it more than these 200 reloads, and this is the first failure and it occured with your handloads, again, it is unlikely to be the rifle, or excessive headspace.

How do you seat primers, with your press or a hand priming tool? Do you "uniform" the primer pocket?

So, (and this is also constructive) but you should probably accept the fact that it was something you did, even if you can't find the cause. In other words, primers are almost foolproof, the odds are against you so it does bring into question your loading. Everybody feels like they are very careful but one year time in grade is not a whole lot of experience, comparatively speaking. BB

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Dud primer question

The place to screen for this issue is in the primer flip tray. A=t some point they are all like litte turtles, with their tiny bellies exposed. A seriously deformed primer interior will stand out.

Every failure to fire of mine has turned out to be tumbling media crumbs in the flash hole. I do my decapping after I tumble. It's not a hundred percent, but its way up there.

 

[TenZero]

Re: Dud primer question

BB, I get that bad primers are a rare thing, so I should buy a lottery ticket. This primer was definitely bad, no question. The priming compound on these is a reddish orange color, and looks like paint inside of the primer cup, underneath the anvil. This particular piece was clean bare metal under the anvil. I'm pretty sure nothing I did could have caused that.

Greg, thanks, I will incorporate a visual check of primer 'bellies' as part of my priming operation. Now I know what to look for, it should be easy to spot, and will only take a few seconds. I use an RCBS hand priming tool.

 

[TexIndian]

Re: Dud primer question

The only dud I recall having in 30+ years happened recently. It was a Federal 210 Match primer. I haven't pulled the round apart yet, but I know it got a good strike from the firing pin. Actually, it got two good strikes because I tried it twice in my GAP Crusader. It was fully seated using my Sinclair hand-priming tool into a primer pocket that had been uniformed.

I have always used CCI primers and just tried my first brick of the Feds.

 

[TenZero]

Re: Dud primer question

Old Tex, I would be very interested in what you find when you pull the round down. I was very careful to recover the primer from mine, before it disappeared down the primer chute. Post your findings when you do.

 

[psinclair]

Re: Dud primer question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1lnbrdg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It happens.

I've seen it more regular with the harder primers lately (Tula). People do not seat them deep enough and then the firing pin does more seating than impacting the priming mix against against the anvil of the primer which looks like a light hammer strike. </div></div>

I've only had one dud with Wolf/Tula(Russian)primers out of 12,000 or so. The anvil was in upside down.....I visually inspect every one of them now.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Dud primer question

In 45ACP, with Wolf primers, I get a dud about once every 750 rounds or so. I always strike it several times, visually inspect, and pull it down. It is usually the anvil upside down.

I've ever had 4 rifle duds, and they were all missing powder.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: Dud primer question

I know nothing about Russian primers but based on these comments, I will pass. Why would somebody buy non American primers, in the first place? Are they cheaper, or better, or what? BB

edit: actually, I look at primers in the tray, it doesn't take much of a glance to see if they are all uniform, and recall, now that I think about it, a long time ago, I had a box of 38 Specials with a (1) primer inserted upside down, I think it was Fiochi(sp) but I thought it unusual. Wonder what would happen if hit by a firing pin?

 

[turbo54]

Re: Dud primer question

Russian primers are cheap. For pistols, I think it's good training to have a dud from time to time.

I don't use Russian rifle primers, but I've read they're very accurate.

 

[1lnbrdg]

Re: Dud primer question

I haven't had a primer miss-fire in years.

When I started reloading in the mid-70's, CCI's were the cheapest but they were also the most problematic. Federal was good stuff back then, Winchester too.

For the last 3 yrs, I haven't shot anything but the Tula (Wolf) primers without any problems. They have performed well for me.

I still prefer Federal pistol primers though, they have the softest cups out there in my opinion.

 

[TenZero]

Re: Dud primer question

Thanks for all the feedback, gentlemen. Sounds like a rare, but still possible, occurrence to find a dud primer. I'm a little relieved to find that it wasn't something I did. I'm also pleased to pick up some tips, and I'll now definitely make verifying my primers part of my load process. Once they're all belly up in the tray, just a quick scan for any that look different somehow should do it.
Learning fast!